Topic: How do you play your warrior prime?

[SeriousCallersOnly]

As it says. I'm interested in the most effective way to play the prime. I use him as my only HQ, and I've tried him with warriors and with hormagaunts and I'm not all that happy with either. Granted, my warriors aren't optimised for cc, but I haven't yet got round to pulling models apart and reconfiguring them.

With deathspitter/talon warriors, I'm finding that I never know whterh to run in or hold back and shoot.

With the gaunts, I'm wasting their bounding leap, or risking a krak to the face if I run him behind them, plus I forgot he can't fleet and flubbed the charge last game.

So I'm finding that everything in my army has its role, but I can't quite get the hang of the prime, and for that matter, warriors in general. Trying to optimise my units, so any ideas?

[Pershore]

I like Primes in two roles:

1) joining a unit of warriors.  My favourite set up is double bonesword and devourer with adrenal glands, with one member of the squad getting a barbed strangler.  It's expensive but lethal.  You have 3 different models meaning you can take 6 wounds before losing a model, you can absorb S8 and S9 hits on the Prime without losing models to instant death and you even get a minor WS/BS boost.

2) joining a single Carnifex.  Adds a bit more punch to your already dangerous MC and allows him to pick up a cover save very easily.  I know some people take 2 Primes and 2 Carnifexen but I don't really like super expensive deathstar units and if I did I'd probably prefer the Swarmlord with Tyrant Guard option instead.

I used to occasionally add one just to fill the mandatory HQ slot, but he'd end up in a unit of Hive Guard or something and it was fairly unsatisfactory.

[FifthWindDieGermanator]

Since I use my Deathspitter/Scything Talon Warriors in a shooty role, I use my dual Bonesword prime with a trio of Carnifexes, when I have the points to include them. I am still a fan of running Carnifexes, and sticking my Prime with the unit allows the squad to do their own thing without worrying about Synapse, so they can distract, scare, and ultimately destroy whatever target they need to while the rest of the swarm does their thing. For example, in a 2k game against Orks, this squad curved around the outer edges of the board to engage a rogue Battlewagon before engaging my opponent's own deathstar.

[aries_bill]

I usually run him with dual bone swords, scything talons and regen. I then stick him in a squad of warriors that are equiped with bone swords, lash whips and one with barbed strangler. They move in my phalanx, behind my termagaunt screen and go for multi wound models and/or enemy generals. As much as possible I try to keep them away from large, powerfull h2h units and from units that can put out large volumes of fire.

[Master Bio-Titan BT]

2) joining a single Carnifex.  Adds a bit more punch to your already dangerous MC and allows him to pick up a cover save very easily.

I'm not quite getting this one, shamefully.  Who gets a cover save and how?

[Teecheedeedee]

I suggest adding primes to shooty warrior squads. You get a unit which can hold objectives, shoot decently at enemy squads that come too close, and hold it's own in cc. For this, I use a deathspitter/ twin sword prime, occasionlly adding in a biomorph here and there. The end result is a very versatile squad.

Essentially, warriors are the tyranid's heavy infantry, good at holding positions. A prime pretty much just means they can do what they do better, at a cost. So I think primes can be reasonably run with either cc or shooty warrior units, or even flexible squads. If one of these squads has a unit of termagants in front for cover, nothing short of a heavy pie plate or terminators (etc) will dislodge them them.

Alternatively I have seen cc primes added to Swarmlord squads (i.e. SL and 3 Guards with Boneswords) to create an uber deathsquad. Seems overkill to me, but if anyone has tried this I would be curious to hear about its performance.

[RezZzeD]

Personally my Prime starts with 20+ extra wounds from the termagaunt squad he has joined.  This unit provides cover to the other warriors standing behind them.  He is kitted with a BS/LW and talons while my warriors have Dual BS and Talons and an occasional biomorph.  When the squad gets close to a target for cc, he peels off with his warrior brethren while the gaunts are used to tarpit other potential attackers in the area.  Imagine the gaunts as the crowd that always forms around a high school fight so that no one else can get in to break it up.

My Prime has yet to die and he and his brethren have taken down terminator squads, emperor's champions with full BT squads, etc.

[GaleRazorwind]

I'm not quite getting this one, shamefully.  Who gets a cover save and how?

If at least 50% of a squad is in cover, the whole squad counts as being in cover. Therefore, if a Tyranid Prime joins a single Carnifex, you can give the Fex a cover save if you keep the Prime in cover. It is the same mechanic that allows a Hive Tyrant to get a cover save by being attached to a Tyrant Guard who is kept in cover.

[Master Bio-Titan BT]

I'm not quite getting this one, shamefully.  Who gets a cover save and how?

If at least 50% of a squad is in cover, the whole squad counts as being in cover. Therefore, if a Tyranid Prime joins a single Carnifex, you can give the Fex a cover save if you keep the Prime in cover. It is the same mechanic that allows a Hive Tyrant to get a cover save by being attached to a Tyrant Guard who is kept in cover.

Thats what I was thinking he meant.  I guess at that time I thought it was only possible because Tyrant Guard take away the MC stipulation from shooting to a HT/SL.

[aries_bill]

Ive had that same argument with the gamers in my area too. We decided that since it lists that ability for the Tyrant to recieve a cover where MCs wouldnt, then the other monstrous creatures woould not. They dont list this cover save ability for MCs in the rulebook so it falls under the whole "it doesnt say I cant" argument. Its kida in the grey (closer to the not side in my opinion) and therfore we all voted on how to play it at our location. Yet another FAQ/errata to send to GW.

[Pershore]

There is no grey area!  The rules for cover saves from obscurement say that you count up which models in the unit are in cover and if half or more are in cover then the entire unit gets a cover save.  In a unit of 2 (a prime and a fex), 1 of the models must be obscured for the entire unit to get a cover save.

The tyrant's shieldwall ability allows it to join a unit (something MCs can't otherwise do), it's nothing to do with cover saves.

[shaten]

The tyrant's shieldwall ability allows it to join a unit (something non Independent charactersMCs can't otherwise do), it's nothing to do with cover saves.

fixed it there.

Also the fact the Hive Tyrant and Carnifex are not ICs is what prevents them from being singled out in squads during shooting.

[Master Bio-Titan BT]

RaW sure, I suppose it would work.

Seems weird for sure and I am sure my opponent would drop the cheese bomb on it.  So, the Prime is in cover but the MC is not and opponents have direct non-obscured LoS would certainly make you think that you wouldn't get a save, but you would.

Now reverse it.  The MC is in cover and the Prime is not.  They would only get a cover save IF the MC (Fex) is 50% obscured per the cover save rules for MCs'.  A cover save would not apply if the MC is not obscured 50% as the Prime joining the MC does not reduce the restrictions to targeting MC like the Tyrant Guard shield wall rule.

Sound correct?

[shaten]

Sound correct?

yes that is correct, same thing applies to vehicle squadrons and smoke launchers.

[Pershore]

RaW sure, I suppose it would work.

Seems weird for sure and I am sure my opponent would drop the cheese bomb on it.  So, the Prime is in cover but the MC is not and opponents have direct non-obscured LoS would certainly make you think that you wouldn't get a save, but you would.

Now reverse it.  The MC is in cover and the Prime is not.  They would only get a cover save IF the MC (Fex) is 50% obscured per the cover save rules for MCs'.  A cover save would not apply if the MC is not obscured 50% as the Prime joining the MC does not reduce the restrictions to targeting MC like the Tyrant Guard shield wall rule.

Sound correct?

It's not cheesy, it's the how the game works!  Ask your cheese screaming friend if he'll be a gentlemen and not bother with his armour saves - it's the same thing!

Also, if your tyrant guard is in the open and your tyrant is in cover it too needs to be 50% covered.  As I said, the shield wall ability just lets it join the unit, it has nothing to do with cover.

[Teecheedeedee]

I recall this debate coming up earlier, but I can't find it. I seem to remember the point being made that a prime cannot join just a single monstrous creature (think the rulebook has something to say about this). Does this resonate with anyone, or is it way off?

[RezZzeD]

IIRC IC can join a unit, fexes are a unit now.  Now this unit might only have 1 member, but still acceptable

[FifthWindDieGermanator]

RezZzeD is correct. IC's cannot join units that always consist of only a single model. Since Carnifexes have the option of more then 1 per unit, it allows the Prime to join them.