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Author Topic: Who drives Space Marine tanks?  (Read 9165 times)

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Offline Becarem

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Re: Who drives Space Marine tanks?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2012, 07:02:21 AM »
I'm not so sure of that. If there is one thing the HH book series added to the universe that wasn't arguably ill-conceived, it's the idea that the Chapter had previously existed as a maneuver unit within the legions, a unit of approximately a thousand fighting men, somewhat similar to a battalion or somesuch. Regardless, the idea of a thousand fighting men isn't unique to the 40th millennium.

Again, this is one more way the Imperium limits the capability of its various constituent parts. Imperial Guard commanders do not have access to interplanetary transports. Navy Captains and Admirals do not have access to substantial fighting forces to occupy planets, the Ecclesiarchy wasn't supposed to have access to any military forces (they cheated... but their forces still aren't humongous) and finally the Astartes are limited in numbers.

Fact is, we know that marines aren't incorruptible. If anything, the prospect of a marine chapter going rogue or to chaos is such a terrifying prospect that it's better to keep them somewhat limited in the case of them doing so. Chapters who refuse this are either the subject of much controversy, or supported by ancient claims to their organizational body, or somehow working with some kind of "alibi" against corruption. (the Black Templars' constant crusading and lack of a chapter homeworld might count as this, though they still seem fairly controversial.)

Point is; the numbers 1000 is meant as a standing rule, but at the same time, some leeway and turning of eyes is provided on a case-by-case basis. The Imperium Is A Big Place, after all.

In an age when incense is considered a required component of a toolbox, who is to say what kind of mathematic accuracy we can expect?  :P

The reader-response approach to 40k storytelling (i.e. role-playing as a scribe reviewing files from a crumbling, occasionally inaccurate database) has always been one of the most intriguing aspects of the fluff to me.  This is the reason I enjoy conflicting versions of events in disputed canon.  It allows for discussion and debate among peers as to the "truth".  (Much as might "actually occur" in the era before someone pulls a bolt pistol, heh.) 

I totally agree that a subjective interpretation of "1000 men" is more my own pet theory developed while reading the fluff than concretely supported by text.  I just happen to prefer some subjectivity without imposing on anyone else's world view.  To say there are exactly 1000 men per chapter is a totally legitimate stance, although I would prefer the word "roughly" in place of "exactly".  If there are significant deviations from these dictates, they probably come in the form of a byzantine monitoring structure of how many chapters that exist at any given time; I highly doubt any but the Emperor actually knows how many chapters there truly are per minute. (Why do people feel the need to make 1000 chapter lists? It's just going to change when warp storm Abbadon rolls in, or seasonal Tyranid showers blow through, or whatever!) Off topic, sorry.

As currently being discussed on another thread, the fans are given many guidelines and options in what to favorably interpret as truth.  Anything is possible.  Three friends can have four vastly differing conceptions of the scale and type of conflicts they face, and while each are beholden to their own pet theories, they can all share an exciting game with each other.  The strength of the 40k setting is letting the players fill in the blanks with their imagination.

My answer is tank drivers drive those tanks, who else?  ;D

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Who drives Space Marine tanks?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2012, 05:17:46 PM »
I don't see anyone actually disagreeing with you when saying that the number 1000 is a rough. Oh, and thanks for the soliloquy, I guess.

With that being said; while there might not be exactly a thousand Chapters, I disagree with the notion that they are as fleety as the number of marines within a Chapter. Space Marine foundings are fairly monumental occurences, and the loss of one is quite severe as well. It's true that there have been Space Marine forces that have been thought lost that have returned, but that's something very much out of the ordinary. There's not a Chapter dead every minute, as it were.

Offline IainC

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Re: Who drives Space Marine tanks?
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2012, 03:50:25 AM »
There are quite explicit references in older fluff sources that the 1000 mrine nominal strength of a chapter does not include supernumeraries like the officers, vehicle pilots, Techmarines and so on. The structure is similar to the Roman legion where the paper strength only counted legionaries and not the Centurions, Optios Signifers etc.
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Offline Locarno

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Re: Who drives Space Marine tanks?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2012, 08:53:38 AM »
Somewhat a thread necromancy, but relevant (honest!).

There is a specific body of marines (not necessarily techmarines) attached to the armoury organisation itself - it's the same body Sgt. Chronus commands in the Ultramarines - a "body of about 30 men, answerable to no-one but the chapter master" or some such wording.

Essentially, the Ultramarines maintain dedicated tank crews - enough to man up at least two or three squadrons of whatever tank pattern is required - without drawing manpower from a company's nominal ten squads.

The current Ultramarines and Blood Angels org charts give you a good feel for the number of supernumaries.
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Offline ozzfann0666

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Re: Who drives Space Marine tanks?
« Reply #24 on: October 3, 2012, 07:04:01 PM »
And let's also not forget that 1000-strong is the nominal number. Look at the Crimson Fists, their numbers are only somewhere between 400-600 if I recall correctly (don't hold me to that) but they still have tanks that are used and need to be crewed. Back in the day, (3rd edition back) vehicle entries actually listed who crewed each vehicle (and If I recall, could possibly get out of the vehicle if something happened to it). The way I have always envisioned it is that a separate group of marines exist specifically to crew vehicles. Just like the 10 companies add up to 1000 men, each company is at least plus 6 for the captain and command squad. The Librarius and Reclusiam have their own numbers. If I recall correctly, the Ultramarines have Tigurius plus around 27 other librarians. Then there's the chapter master and his honor guard. I think even the Techmarines have their own detachment. In actuality, a codex chapter,  even one as rigid as the Ultramarines, has closer to 1100 men at optimal strength, rather than 1000. So it could be either actual Techmarines, or perhaps an unlisted detachment that exists purely to crew vehicles.

Offline commissar_bob

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Re: Who drives Space Marine tanks?
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2012, 03:04:38 PM »
Im thinking that the 1000 people is hard to keep so im thinking the extra guys on the side who pass the scouts are put into tanks ..or because they took out the cybernetics rule is the guys with lost limbs and stuff who arnt 100% that are in the tank

Offline Koval, Master Verispex

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Re: Who drives Space Marine tanks?
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2012, 03:46:38 AM »
That's just daft. Driving in the real world often requires all four of your limbs to do it properly. Driving a tank in the 41st Millennium is likely to be similar. Driving a tank with either a missing limb, or a bionic that you haven't gotten used to, is going to be extremely difficult and you'll probably stuff it up at exactly the wrong moment.

As people have said already in this thread, the 1000 Marines thing is just something that sounds good, because it's hard to make "one thousand, one hundred and something" sound dramatic. So naturally the business of driving tanks falls to Space Marines within the armoury, rather than those who actually comprise a particular Company.

 


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