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Author Topic: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil  (Read 1965 times)

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Offline Azangar

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Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« on: November 22, 2015, 08:07:05 AM »
Greetings fellow warlords.
I am trying to construct an army of 1500 pts for casual play. I don't play that often and last time I played was some months ago. My regular opponents are Dark Angel and Chaos Space Marine. An opponent is gonna try Necron against me next time. My previous posts

For this list I am trying to apply the Hammer and Anvil tactic by having some units sitting at shooting and some units pushing forward. With that in mind here's my list. I call my army Malleus Vaul:

+++ Malleus Vaul (1498pts) +++

++ Eldar Craftworlds: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1498pts) ++

+ HQ (220pts) +

Autarch (100pts) [Banshee mask, Haywire grenades, Laser lance, Plasma grenades, Shuriken pistol]
····Skyrunner [Twin-linked shuriken catapult]

Farseer (120pts) [Ghosthelm, Runes of the Farseer, Shuriken Pistol, Singing spear]
····Skyrunner [Twin-linked shuriken catapult]

+ Elites (235pts) +

Fire Dragons (235pts)
····5x Fire Dragon [5x Fusion Gun, 5x Melta Bombs]
····Wave Serpent [Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon, Twin-linked scatter lasers]

+ Troops (297pts) +

Guardian Defenders (110pts) [Platform with Bright lance]
····10x Guardian [10x Plasma grenades, 10x Shuriken catapult]

Windriders (106pts) [3x Windrider with twin-linked Shuriken catapult]
····Windrider Warlock [Singing spear]
········Skyrunner [Twin-linked shuriken catapult]

Windriders (81pts) [3x Windrider with Scatter laser]

+ Fast Attack (246pts) +

Crimson Hunter (140pts) [Pulse Laser, Two Bright Lances]

Swooping Hawks (106pts) [Grenade pack]
····5x Swooping Hawk [5x Haywire grenades, 5x Lasblaster, 5x Plasma grenades]
····Swooping Hawk Exarch [Haywire grenades, Lasblaster, Plasma grenades]

+ Heavy Support (500pts) +

Fire Prisms (125pts)
····Fire Prism [Prism cannon, Twin-linked shuriken catapults]

Vaul's Wrath Support Battery (165pts)
····3x Support weapon [3x D-cannon]
········6x Crew Guardian [6x Plasma grenades, 6x Shuriken catapult]

War Walkers (210pts)
····War Walker [2x Brightlance]
····War Walker [2x Brightlance]
····War Walker [2x Brightlance]


Image link

My anvil is my Vaul's Wrath + Guardian Defenders + Fire Prism. They will deploy and move forward if necessary into cover. Hereafter they will bomb away anything that is within 24". I haven't played D-Cannons before. Defenders will take care of units coming closer to the cannons. Fire Prism will stay back and shoot with the long range.

The Windrider's with Scatter Lasers will zip around mid-field popping transports or any medium toughness units along with the Wave Serpent carrying the Fire Dragons.
The other Windrider squad will be joined by the Farseer and the Autarch. The Warlock should give good combat powers to the squad by rolling on Runes of Battle hoping for Empower/Enervate. This way the Autarch will get S7 charges. This unit is also capable of taking out vehicles with Laser Lance + 2 Singing Spears. They're ment to be either an aggressive unit or a counter assault unit. I want them to deal with any deep strikers which threatens the Anvil. I also thought of a Wraithlord to fulfill this role, but with the current setup, there's no room for a Wraithlord.
Also the most important task of the Farseer is to Guide Vaul's Wrath because it's the centerpiece of my army.

For the Hammer I use the Crimson Hunter, Swooping Hawks (I have no experience in these but I will try to start them on the board then Skyleap) and outflanking War Walkers. I really love the War Walkers, they've proven very good in my previous games.

I think I have a solid all-round army, which should be able to deal with my opponents. What do you think? Any weaknesses I should enhance?

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2015, 09:18:18 AM »
I like the list, but I'm not sure if you will succeed with a hammer and anvil strategy. Normally you need a static, durable threat and a mobile threat to drive your opponent into the anvil. Your hammer units have a great long range threat, but that unfortunately won't drive them in any particular direction. They are  also tempting targets for your opponent, being harassing, but also relatively fragile, so it may cause your opponent to move away from your anvil. Your anvil is another great long range threat and is only truly effective with the dcannons in the short range. I think if you play more static fire base and use your bikes, flyer, hawks, and walkers to concentrate on picking on individual units to either deliver the killing blow after being pummeled by your static fire base, or to draw a unit away as bait. You could use your hammer units as kites instead and use them to bring them in range of the dcannons. A solid list still. Just need to modify your strategy to play on your units strengths.

Offline Irisado

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2015, 09:40:13 AM »
I remember commenting in your previous topic about the difficulties I foresee with this list.  The list itself may work well enough in seventh edition, I'll leave those who are still playing to assess that, but it's not well suited to the hammer and anvil strategy.  If you want to employ that strategy, I thus recommend that you modify the list significantly.  If you really like your list, then I suggest that you choose a different strategy.  The one dog_of_war outlined sounds good to me.

I wrote an article about the hammer and anvil strategy which may be of help to you.  It was written for fifth edition, but many of the principles still apply.  As far as your list is concerned, in particular, the anvil element is not durable enough to withstand heavy fire power or any kind of significant assault force, while the hammer strikes me as being a little bit weak for taking on any opponents which use a lot of vehicles or high toughness units.

Finally, the point I made about the sole Wave Serpent being a fire magnet in your previous topic which you link to still stands ;).  Once they have lost their transport, I think that you're going to have a very difficult time stopping any heavily mechanised list.
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Offline Fenris

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2015, 02:59:05 PM »
I think your list generally looks fine, 2 skimmers, 1 flyer and 3 walkers is still a decent quantity of tanks.
However, I can see several places that could use some improvement.
Firstly if you take a farsser oon a skyrunner, I think the spirit stone of anath'lan is a must have, it's usually 2-3 free warp charges each turn.
Secondly I would probably merge the two units of jetbikes, taking more advantage of the psychic powers and denying a killpoint.

Furthermore and I do not often say this, I think you have too much anti-tank, every single unit seems focussed on anti-tank. This makes the fire dragons and swooping hawks rather redundant.
In this list I'd rather take a unit of Striking Scorpions and a unit of Dark Reapers.
The reapers will compliment the D-cannons in the anvil/firebase, and the scorpions will protect them from CC.
With this you need to free up a heavy slot, and I know just the one, the fire prism, a single prism is not that powerful IMHO.
I think you are better off taking a Serpent for the defender guardians, they do not necessarily have to embark in it, and wether they door not I don't think the brightlance is all that useful for them, since most targets you want to use a brightlance against is not affected by their catapults. This also due to i they do embark, they will have speed enough to get in range of their catapults and if they don't they are supposed to defend the anvil/firebase from things that gets too close.
I suggest a shuriken cannon or scatter laser instead, or no platform at all.

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Offline Azangar

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 02:03:27 PM »
Thank you for your replies  :)
I get the feeling that my list is ok but needs improvement.
My anvil and hammer isn't that strong. As I see it the Fire Prism isn't that strong alone. I should bring another.
The Dark Reapers would be a great addition to the anvil.
I agree that Scatterlaser would be better than a brightlance.
If I swap the autarch and warlock I want a counter assault unit. Maybe Striking Scorpions will fit this role very good. Maybe Howling Banshees would fit this role better? Maybe a Wraithlord instead of Fire Prism?
Decisions decisions decisions  :)

Offline Irisado

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 02:18:11 PM »
Even if you were to add more Dark Reapers to the anvil, I still think that it lacks numbers.  An anvil needs both survivability and numbers, and I can't see a squad of Dark Reapers adding sufficiently to either for that idea to work.
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Offline Azangar

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 02:28:02 PM »
I have the impression that you want a squad of Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent in this list :)

Offline Irisado

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 02:33:57 PM »
I just give advice, it's up to you whether you wish to follow it :).  I haven't even referred to Dire Avengers and a Wave Serpent during the course of this discussion.  My view is that you're better off picking a different strategy, because that will enable you to lose a lot more of units you have included in the current list to much greater effect than the hammer and anvil strategy will.
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Offline Azangar

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 02:58:54 PM »
Don't get me wrong I really much appreciate your advice. It's gold. I just misinterpreted what you meant  :).
Ok. So I don't understand Hammer and Anvil and I've also read another guide on another forum. In the Eldar codex, what would be examples of anvil units? Are Rangers an anvil unit? Is it possible to apply this strategy at 1500 pts? How do you draw your opponent into the anvil?

Ok I think I will try my list off with a different strategy and see how it goes. I just want to lay down templates and counter assault anything that gets closer. That was practically my understanding of Hammer and Anvil hehe  :)

Offline Irisado

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 03:28:11 PM »
Examples of Anvil Units:

  • Wraithguard (and their variants)
  • Wraithlords
  • Wraithknight
  • Guardians
  • Dire Avengers
  • Striking Scorpions (as a counter assault unit)
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Eldar do not really have that many anvil units.  The reason being is that units need numbers and durability to act as anvil units, and the majority of Eldar units have neither.  Guardians at least have some numbers on their side, and can make use of cover to boost their survivability against some opponents.  Multiple squads are more effective in this role than one though.  The same is true of Dire Avengers.

Rangers don't really qualify as an anvil unit, since their role is not to attract the attention of the opposition and draw opponents towards them.  They are best utilised at distance.  They are snipers remember ;).

Ok I think I will try my list off with a different strategy and see how it goes. I just want to lay down templates and counter assault anything that gets closer. That was practically my understanding of Hammer and Anvil hehe  :)

The idea of using templates to achieve that effect is to send in multiple units to mop up the survivors of any salvo.  This isn't counter assault.  Counter assault it when the opposition assaults one of your units, you lock it in close combat through superior numbers and/or durability, and then engage it with a specialist assault unit.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 03:30:12 PM by Irisado »
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Offline Fenris

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 08:55:36 PM »
Irisado is probably right about the Reapers, they don't have the survivability, and I agree with most of the rest.
Part of the reason I suggested reapers was due to that they are very good against DA,CSM and crons, since they are all MEQ(marines or equally) and DA usually have a bunch of bikes, which the reapers work even better against.

According to the anvil units, I'm not so sure about the avengers, windriders(without upgrades) are actually more durable per point.

While eldar do not have a lot of anvil units, most units are harassing units, some shooty but I'd like to make a list of typical hammer units:
  • Shining Spears
  • Howling Banshees
  • Fire Dragons
  • War Walkers
  • Crimson Hunter
  • Autarch
  • Storm Guardians
These units hit hard, but can't really cope with retaliation.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 08:57:04 PM by Fenris »
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Eldar 1500 pts - Hammer and Anvil
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2015, 05:13:06 AM »
According to the anvil units, I'm not so sure about the avengers, windriders(without upgrades) are actually more durable per point.

Jetbikes are not suited to an anvil because it's a waste of their mobility and hit and run skills.  An anvil is usually slow moving and sometimes static, so they would not be able to make the most of their abilities if they were to be used in that way.

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