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Author Topic: !!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!  (Read 12953 times)

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Offline Twinkeul

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2002, 06:56:24 PM »
Just one idea for the Heavy Support section. I come with this because I don't like the wraithlord : too big and too slow (for the Harlequins ;D ). I wanted to create a fast unit with good firepower and not too tought (eldar-like). I basically used the WraithGuard : a wraithbone construct controlled by spiritstone. The name of the unit is the same as an old mini, the Ghost warrior executionner and assassin class (from Rogue
Trader I think).

Heavy Support

                     Cost  WS BS S  T  W  I  A  Ld  Svg
Ghost Warrior    40     4    4   5  5  1  4  1  10   4+
 
Squad : the squad consist of between 1 and 3 Ghost Warrior

Weapons : one arm is equipped with a close combat weapon.
   
The second arm must be equipped with:
- a shuriken catapult and a ghost weapon (ignore armour saves like power weapon) for 15 pts. Note this option give another attack because it's the second CCW (ghost warrior has 2 attacks in this case).
OR
- a "short barrel" pulse laser ( 24" F8 PA2 Heavy D3 ) for 25 pts. Note that Ghost warriors can move and shoot in the same turn with this weapon.

Armor : Ghost warriors have special holo-field : +1 to cover saves or a 6+ cover save if there is no cover

(like ranger's cameleoline cloaks). They can use their normal save (4+) or cover save.


Special Rules :

Fearless : Ghost warriors are not living creature. They never fall back and they cannot be pinned. Even attacks which normally cause the ennemy to automatically fall back have no effect on Ghost warriors.

Anti-grav Engine : Ghost warriors are equipped with a mini A-G engine that give them the ability of Fleet of foot.

Dispersed formation : like the other harlequins (4" rather than 2")

Mask of fear : like the other harlequins (ennemy unit fighting in assault reduces their Leadership by -1)

I added the power weapon version but I don't think that make a good "Heavy Support" ;D .
For the models, a mix between the old ghost warrior and the new wraith guard  (for the height) can make something good. They must be taller than normal troop but smaller than, say, a wraithlord or a warwalker.

Maybe it's too cheap, really I don't know how to tune the cost. What do you think of this?

Offline Wierd Gilly

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2002, 01:54:49 AM »
some of these are great ideas.. but Id like to see the POWER FISTS.. I love these things on harles.. nothing like seeing the other guys jaw drop when a troop of 5 rushes in and pounds the hell out of something with these thing..

Offline Scars

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2002, 05:43:17 AM »
Idea for having powerfists but keeping the whole harlequin theme:

Harlequin powerfist 30p
S8, halves I
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Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2002, 06:04:13 AM »
i remember the ghost warriors, ive even still got some !
i also remember how nasty those guys were, its a nice idea but there are a few probs; 24"str 8 ap2 hD3 move and fire, its sounds a little too overpowered id suggest shorten the range and the strength.
also the overall points cost is far too cheap 60pts min for such a hard ass model,
a suggestion for their save; they have a good toughness not many things can hurt them i think that instead of a coversave, due to their nature, ghost warriors can only be shot on a 6.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2002, 06:06:55 AM by Bean_Bandit »

Offline Twinkeul

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2002, 07:16:03 AM »
Well I just read again my post...and I think I was drunk or something like that when I choose this weapon ; but I love Eldar pulse laser  ;D. And it's not the "harlequins style". They prefer something more dirty that cut the human (or other living organism) in little pieces of meat : shuri can, harl's kiss and bio ammo  :).

Really I don't know what weapon to take. Something to perform some tank-kill actions would be perfect (this is a great problem for harlequins). Maybe a Fire pike? Or a modified version of the Dual Laser of the Benathaï (2 shots : 36" F6 PA4, can be combine in 1 high energy shot :  36" F8 PA2) .

Offline Harle

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2002, 11:35:43 AM »
harle can take firepikes, in the cj44 the new weapons that death jesters can tak ewas expanded and the fire pike was one of the new ones on the list

harle have great tank busting abilities - brihgtlance, haywire grenades

man, a haywire grenade launcher would be cool

Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2002, 10:58:27 PM »
new shadowseer power : shadow replica
the shadow seer creates a replica of the chosen squad in his opponets mind, fooling him into beliving that the shadows he is shooting at are his real targets.

this is a one use only power, at any time in the battle
you may make a mirror of any squad which doesnt contain any characters; for example you want to mirror a 5 man harle squad, simply place down 5 more models anywhere within 12" of the first squad both the squads may not do anything other than move or fleet of foot, to do anything else the harle player has to declare which of the squads is the real one and which one is the shadow replicas.

the benifit of this power is the opponent must kill off both squads, if only one squad is wiped out then the harle player simply declares that that was the shadow replicas, and they do not count towards victory points

i liked the idea of fooling your oppenent (thats what harles are famed for) and it brings a smile to my face to think that an oppenent spending his turns shooting at shadows, it also has some really nice tactical uses too;
remember ether of the squads could be revealed as the real squad; one squad has moved into range to to strike
at an enemy weakpoint?
the harle player simply declares that is the real squad, or if you walk out into the range of a devastator squad and it get wiped out?
well there go your shadow replicas (note, for the enemy
both squads are considered living until the real squad is declared and are treated as normal upto that point)

if one of the two squads move into combat, as soon as the harles attack (they usually always attack first but this isnt always the case ie de) then the harle player must declare which squad is real

hope peeps like it :)

btw a haywire grenade launcher is a really nice idea, thinking about a squad of normal harles with 24" tankbusting ablities make me get that warm fuzzy feeling inside.
perhapse an upgrade for mimes?  ;D
« Last Edit: August 24, 2002, 11:07:02 PM by Bean_Bandit »

Offline Archon Gahraktael

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2002, 03:01:38 AM »
Is it really that unreasonable to combine a harlie's kiss and powerblades?  Space Wolf frost blades give the same effect against a good number of units in the game.  I realize that there is a difference between wounding t3 opponents on 2+ with no saves, and wounding everything on 2+ with no saves, but the SW is much more likely to survive any retaliation and be able to attack again.  Anyway, aren't eldar supposed to be very technologically advanced?  Aren't harlies supposed to be HTH terrors, able to decimate squads before they have a chance to strike a blow?  I wouldn't really miss the kiss special rule of killing multi wound models on a 6 if they were able to be paired with power blades instead.
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Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2002, 06:13:01 AM »
at the end of the day the beta codex is only a test codex
if peeps think something is over/under powered they can make the changes. remember though always ask the permisson of the guy you are playing if its ok if you can use these changes on the subject of the solitare kiss/powerblades only i agree with you quanto and thats how i use him if i can.
a guy called vernerable troko posted an idea for the kiss/blades that is somewhat of a compromise "if you wish to use combined effects of both the kiss and blades then you only get half the number of attacks ie a chargine solitare only gets 6 attacks instead of 12.

Offline GELDRAN DURRELL

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2002, 04:54:42 PM »
O.K now its my turn. Read all the stuff and found it very interesting, so here is what i think should be done with them.
1. Like the Great Harlie Divine Intervention thing. Have seen an alternative called The Last Laugh where even if the G.H. is killed he still gets one full turn to finish what he was doing, alternatively allow him to be 'possessed' by the Laughing God himself, but for a limited time only.
2. Shadow Seers - need some more offensive psychic powers, and bring back the Benathai (little birdy robot familiars with laser weapons that could be sent off ahead and the seer could see through them )
3. Troops - lower the cost of regular Harlies to about 22 and keep the cost of mimes at 25 to justify their extra abilities or reduce other aspects of mime abilities (i.e.weapons choice, or profile stats)
4. i like the idea of skyboards and also would like to see some Dark Eldar weaponry in there, after all they do travel between both kin and would be gifted for their services from both sides
5. Keep the Wraithlord for old times sake but take away his heavy weapons, thats not his job.
6. have the Venom as a transport option for all squads, and stick Vypers in as a heavy support choice.
7. dodge saves/abilities are a great idea
8. DEFINATELY BRING BACK THE FLIP OUT OF COMBAT RULE, I MEAN IT MAKES SENSE DOESNT IT?

I think thats all for now but im sure more will come if i sleep on it, but please everybody remember that the Harlequins are the pinnacle of Eldar martial prowess and everything about them should reflect that.

Offline Twinkeul

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2002, 05:25:06 PM »
Tis is what I have found on the Benathaï but I don't remmber where.

Benathaï retinue

cost  WS  BS  S  Front Side Rear  I   A
25      3     4   4     9       9      9    7   2

Squad : a shadow seer can have between 3 to 5 benathaï

Weapons : Dual Laser  36" S6 PA4 assault2. The 2 shots can be combine in one : 36" S8 PA2

Special rules:
Retinue : the benathaïs always follow the shadow seer. They must stay at 12" or less of the seer.

Choosing target : benathaï always shoot the target which is the nearest the shadowseer. If the seer die, the benathaï stay near the corpse to protect it and shoot at all the ennemy at range

Robots: the benathais are robots and thus they have no life points or Leadership. To be destroyed, they must take a penetrating hit. They don't have to take any Leadership test of any kind. Psychic powers or weapons which relies upon leadership value have no effect and automatically fail.

(this is a tranlation from a french text, please excuse my poor english skill. I hope this text can be understand even with all my mistakes )

Offline gripen40k

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2002, 05:44:40 PM »
make the haywire granade launcher like a rictus mask that has 12" range, and has the same effects against tanks. i think that would be cool. and the bentai need to have less powerfull guns. make 'em like reaper launchers, that can combine thier shots to a krak missle.

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2002, 11:15:26 PM »
They have a lot of good ideas on EO, like this fluff:
http://www.eldaronline.com/fluff/fluff_theharlequins.shtml
I want Harleis to be more like that! But only more like it, not exactly like it.

Offline GELDRAN DURRELL

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2002, 04:14:32 PM »
just a quick one, had a moment of inspiration at work.

FACT..

Harlequins are masters of the webway, and as such have a knowledge and understanding of it's many secret paths and routes that no other Eldar could.

PRACTICAL SOLUTION..

In ALL missions where the Harlequins are the attacker, then ALL units must enter using the DEEP STRIKE rules, except maybe Mimes who can have the option of setting up using their infiltrate ability.

I feel this covers the whole aspect of the Harlies using the Webway to appear unexpectedly and also in gaming terms i would rather spend one turn in very close proximity to the enemy, forgoeing my ability to assult, where the enemies blast markers could do equal damage to their own force, than have to spend three turns slogging over the battlefield getting blown to pieces as i go before i can even make contact with the Mon-keigh scum.

Secondly, and this is a very major gripe of mine, i really feel that the TO HIT table needs adjusting to give a more balanced feel to models skills.
 
It seems stupid to me that my Solitaire with a WS of 8 and probably the most adept H2H fighter in the 40k universe still has to roll 3+ to hit a pathetic imperial guardsman with a WS of 3.

While i agree that a roll of a 1 should always be treated as a miss, i do feel that for those with a high WS, a roll of 2+ to hit against enormously underskilled opponents should be put into place.

On the other foot i beleive that a roll of a 6+ should be put in place for those wishing to hit back at highly skilled H2H opponents.

This neednt be a big change, just an adjustment between the ranges of 8,9,10 to 1,2,3 on the TO HIT chart. Go on, have a look and see, i mean its ok to be rolling 3+ to hit in the mid ranges or with averagely balanced units, but when a gretchin has the same chance to hit as your Avatar or Great Harlequin then it really seems pointlees having such a high WS.

OK thats all for now, will be back once ive been through all the old fluff and codexes.

Callidus

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2002, 12:46:09 PM »
Heck, I didn't even know it was like that until I when to Gamesday! ;D I always assumed that since the Solitare and such were monsters they should hit on 2+. But NO!

Offline Twinkeul

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2002, 06:41:43 AM »
Just an idea for the Great Harlequin.

"Let's make some jokes!"  ;)

The following powers have effects only when the Great Harlequin is in HtH combat against more than 2 models. If there is only one opponent (the last member of a squad of an independant character without retinue), no effects.

1-"The more opponent, the easier to hit a least one" - 15 points??
In HtH, for each "one" on the dices rolling to hit obtained by the ennemy, the models actually hit their own unit ! Resolve the wound using the strength of the model, unmodified by the weapons (for example, a space marine with a power fist wounds his teammates with S4 and normal armor saves, not "S8 no armor"), but modified by other factor (for example, wyches with combat drug that gives S+1 hits with S4, not S3).

Example : 3 assault marines (6 Attacks) against a Great Harlequin. The marines obtained two "one" on the dices to hit. The unit takes 2 hit S4 with normal armor saves.

Perhaps we could limit the effects to one hit max per member of the unit. Say, 5 members can only take 5 hits even if they roll six "one", the last "one" is lost.

2-"Look at that! This Mon-Keigh is so dumb he has stopped the strike of his friend !" - 15 points??
In HtH for each "one" on the dices rolling to hit obtained by the ennemy, the unit cancel one hit against the Great Harlequin.
Example : Our 3 assault marines(6A) against the Mighty Great Harlequin. The marines roll and obtain one "one" and two hits. They lose one hit and the harlequin take only one.

Of course, the 2 powers can't be taken together.

3-the last one (20 points??). You can combine the 2 powers above BUT with the following changes. When the ennemy of the Great Harlequin rolls some "one" on the dices, he(the ennemy) chooses the effects that will occur.
Example : 3 assault marines, the Great Harly. Marines roll three "one" (very unlucky) and distributes them : two hits to their unit, and one hit to the harly cancelled. Of course, to cancel a hit, they must have one.

Must be tune (obviously).

What do you think of these?

Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2002, 07:23:24 AM »
ooo i like it, it reminds me of the exarch power distract in the second ed rules, i think that both powers separate are cool enough though, as the squad has got to survive a charge of a great harle (7 a) and then they also have to get past his domino field (if you equpped him with one) but i feel that these powers will fit in perfectly with a harlequin army ...cool gear.

Offline motts

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2002, 02:54:33 PM »
Picking up on what a few people have said and adding a few ideas of my own:

- 4+ dodge in CC instead of halving WS (more effective and simpler to use)

- scrap wraithlord (fluff), maybe allow a walkor of some kind (not the present war walker)

- flip belts allow a 4+ "safe landing" save when escaping from an open top vehicle that has been destroyed

- kiss/power blades combo doesent give combined effects (choose one or another)

- allow flip out of combat (similar to withdraw exarch power)

These effects make the squads tougher whilst toning down the cheesy characters a bit imho.


Offline Tuomaaca

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2002, 12:00:17 AM »
just for fun, while the harlies are all clown like and everything, does anyone think a pogo stick squad would be kinda cool?

maybe they could be fast attack or something.  well, im jsut throwing out wacky ideas.  use 'em if you want.  :P

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Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2002, 06:38:03 AM »
harles are a cc army i was thinking i few few ideas on the kiss/blades front ;

harles kiss; get rid of the 6 outright kill, instead give it a save reducer like the ork choppas, any save better than a 4/5 is counted as 4/5 (not shore wether it should be reduced to +4 or +5 save, i think +5 but peeps give me your opinons which. note invulnerable saves dont count)
the kiss should be a standard issue and available to everyone in a squad (as should powerweapons)

kiss/blades; only someone with a sufficently high enough weaponskill may combine the the effects of both items, aka the solitare.

for the riveblades i think it should give +1 to str and can ether be used as ether a powerweapon or a powerfist
(str 8 )
« Last Edit: August 31, 2002, 06:43:14 AM by Bean_Bandit »

 


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