Topic: 1500 Psyker Heavy

[Nythrulas]

So this is a list that has been working oddly well for me so far.  I made it with the intention of going as close to full infantry as possible, while forgoing wraithknights, wraiguard, Jetbikes and tanks... basically all the stuff people normally whine about.  It has still been disgustingly effective.

Seer Council [410]
105 Farseer, Singing Spear
105 Farseer, Singing Spear
200 Warlocks(5), Singing Spears

The Heroes' Path [325]
165 Solitaire, Cegorach's Rose, Haywire
100 Shadowseer, ML2, Mask of Secrets
  60 Death Jester

Dire Avenger Shrine [303]
121 Avengers(7), Exarch, Diresword
  91 Avengers(7)
  91 Avengers(7)

Combined Arms Detachment [410]
105 Farseer, Singing Spear
  60 Rangers(5)
  60 Rangers(5)
185 Hemlock Wraithfighter

1448 TOTAL

I still have 52 points left... And I've decided to leave it alone, even though I could afford a Windrider squad or a remnant of glory or something.

Basically, the seer council Farseers take full Fate, hoping for Fortune and Storm, and the lone Farseer takes full Telepathy, hoping for Invisibility.  This makes the Seer Council pretty invincible, and a threat to everything.  Between the Shadowseer and the Hemlock, I can pinpoint units to either Psychic Shriek off the board with their leadership debuffs, or allow the Death Jester to do his thing, or the Solitaire to do his.  Hemlock actually handles anti tank fairly well... anything that gets hit is not having a good day.  Even anti air can be taken care of if the council Guides its Spears.

It's not particularly fast, as it's all infantry, but it seems to have it where it counts.  Any glaring weaknesses or things to worry about?  Any suggestions for the last 52 points?

[Partninja]

Spend the extra points on larger Avenger squads. They look more like an afterthought than effective units. With the extra shots they can get, you want a full squad to maximize their impact (and staying power). Drop the Exarch and upgrades if you need to to get more bodies.

[The Reborn]

Partninja beat me to it.....I would increase the size of your Avenger squads, that or take a RoG.

Interesting list.

[Nythrulas]

Honestly, the Avenger squads are there so the opponent has something to shoot at that seems like a bigger threat than the harlequins.  The squads are actually big enough to be able to do the damage I want them to do (any).  The Exarch with Diresword is actually bonkers good, and backed up by the Hemlock and Shadowseer can really make enemy characters sweat.  However, I'm considering taking the Avengers out altogether and replacing it with a Crimson Death, if I can find the rest of the points.

[Rx8Speed]

looks really fun to play with. The seer council seems vulnerable if you don't go first when you haven't gotten fortune off yet. Then barrage weapons or anything that can put a lot of hits on the unit can ruin your day. How has the hemlock been playing alongside the council I'm very interested! Have you been casting with it or just using it to generate dice?

also for the last 52 points I suggest either a dual shuricannon vyper or making your da units bigger. Although going the other route and replacing the avengers with something else altogether is definitely an option. I think a night spinner squadron would be pretty awesome. 3 large s9 blasts per turn with monofilament and barrage? Ya bud

[Nythrulas]

I haven't really had a problem with the seer council being targetted, oddly enough, as people never seem to think it's enough of a first turn threat to shoot at it.  I do make efforts to hide them of course, but still, if I were facing this list, and managed first turn, I would put everything into the council.  For whatever reason, people don't. Troops with BS5 can seem like a good target though, so maybe that's the incentive.

Honestly, I haven't had much play with the Hemlock.  It tends to run out of good targets by the time it comes on the board.  That said, I think it's very good.  I've been taking Conceal and Shriek on it, as I think it's a particularly awesome combo for the Hemlock.  If I'm expecting a lot of anti air shooting, I can cast Conceal.  Just the threat of a perfect jink save can keep the opponent from bothering to shoot at it at all, but even if I am forced to jink, I still have Shriek with a Mindshock Pod.  Otherwise, I can cast Reveal and throw some D-Scythe templates down.  If he's Guided, I can pretty much wreck a car park if the tanks are close enough together.  He's a total threat to everything, and with vector dancer, I can keep him from getting shot down by opposing flyers.  Due to the Mindshock pod and how it integrates with the rest of the list, I don't even care if his positioning robs him of a turn of shooting, because he's still contributing to the degrading of enemy troops.  People talk about how leadership doesn't matter in this game, but I tell you, taking a Death Is Not Enough morale check at -6 leadership when your HQ and retinue are near a board edge is scary.  Taking an assault morale check against a Solitaire on snake eyes is scary.  Taking three Shrieks a turn at -6 or 7 is scary.

This list says "Boo."

[Grizzlykin]

Man you just maid me want to try a Heymlock I think your list is very potente as it is and i don't think that in 1500 pts games you should have a crimson death + and heymlock. In my opinion it would be too many flyer and that would be dangerous in the game i think but that's your play so it's for you to see^^ I don't have any way for you to cut down points either without taking out the Seer council :/

So for the aditional 50 points... i would probably do what the other have suggested already wich is taking some more dire avenger... but I prefer the above idea of Vyper really more cause i love vyper (personnal taste tottaly not rationnal? who said we could not).
An other idea that might be fun to use, is reduing the dire avenger squad by 2 each and get youself a ten woman banshee squad, to go with the fear idea that come from you army but i'm not too sure about the efficacity of those^^. things to test out i guess You could aswell take just a 7 or 8  of those and keep some boides in the avenger squad. pottenially you could take out the shrine for an aspect formtaion but i doubt i would be a good things to do.

there you go ^^

[Ibushi]

Very interesting list, thanks for sharing! I would love to see a batrep against another mean list if you have time to post.

What do you roll for the Council warlocks?

One thing I would consider (not for 1500, but for 1750+) is swapping the CAD for a wildrider formation, so your council will always get 6's for running. Although by the sounds of it, you aren't necessarily running that much? Would be curious to learn more.

An advantage of the CAD though, is you can get a wave serpent to hide them in for T1 defence, plus obsec bikes which is nice.

Anyway, this concept seems like a good way of countering the Flyrant phenomenon -- your hemlock can easily Shriek an FMC out of the air in one turn with decent rolls. The rest of your army might struggle, but hey thats always the case.

If you do jink with the Hemlock though, that Shriek would only be hitting on a 6, which seems like a bit of a waste of warp charge to cast =/

Thanks for sharing, look forward to hearing more!
Ibushi

[Nythrulas]

Well, whether or not Shriek rolls to hit is a debate that needs to be held in each LGC, as it's by no means solved in the rulebook or on the internet.

That said, I still don't think that Shriek is a good solution for FMCs or really anything else.  It's nice when it works, but it just as often does absolutely nothing but waste dice.  I think it's good once you can start debuffing LD on opposing units, AND stack more than one Shriek, but that's usually a lot of points in one area.

I'm not using the Windrider host, partly because I have no use for the additional warlock conclave, plus, I like having the rangers with obsec... unfortunately, with the removal of pinning from sniper weapons (as well as many other Eldar weapons), they are fairly useless other than being obsec with move through cover.

I don't think the run move is all that crucial, although I've never played with it, so it could be very powerful.  Honestly, I'm thinking about dropping the Avenger Shrine, mounting everything on bikes and replacing the rangers with min Windrider squads.

Psychic layout is like this:

Seer Council:
Farseer 3x Fate (focus)
Farseer 3x Fate (focus)
Warlocks 2x Battle (focus)

Shadowseer 1x Phantasmancy, Shriek

CAD Farseer 3x Telepathy (focus)

Hemlock Conceal, Shriek

This is how I've been running it, but I'm looking into other possibilities with the Shadowseer and Hemlock.  The advantage of taking primaris powers is that I can count on them, but I may be overlooking a good combo.  Overall, I don't think Divination is that helpful for the council, and I don't think Sanctic is that useful period.

[Ibushi]

Interesting stuff, thanks for the clarifications.

On the farseers, I'm thinking I would do one of the council seers 3xFate, then if I dont roll Fortune, I would do the other one too.

But if Fortune is rolled already, I would do the 2nd Council seer as Telepathy, and then the 3rd individual Farseer as Fate again.

That way I could do 2x Fate powers in one turn from two places.

Curious to know what you do with your council farseers aside from Fortune up the council?

Lastly, I was just reading the ITC tournament FAQ and apparently they specifically do not allow blast templates to be fired at swooping FMCs, even though the rulebook does not at all specify this. That seems kind of too bad, and makes the Hemlock a lot less attractive at ITC events.

It still seems like a rocking flyer to try out, which I will do so this weekend and get back to 40KO with a batrep maybe.

Cheers
Ibushi
Post Merge: May 27, 2015, 07:35:54 PM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.Also I'm looking at the Mindshock Pod and Psychic Shriek rules, and I'm thinking the Hemlock debuff doesn't actually overlap with how Shriek works unfortunately.

Off the cuff I would assume there is a -2 the same as Mask of Secrets, but actually it specifically states only for Morale, Pinning, and Fear tests, of which Shriek is not one.

Oh well. Still seems like a really good unit, just doesn't quite overlap with that particular power how I was hoping. Dominate, Terrify, etc. still work.

Cheers
Ibushi