Topic: How to field Guardians? Over investment vs. anti tank, anti hoarde

[MechTau]

Hello all.

I'm relatively new to 8th edition and Eldar, having last played 5th edition and Tau.

Something about xenos and skimmers, I guess.

My question is about how to make the most of guardians. Relatively short range on their basic rifles.

I see a few options:

- Shuriken Cannon combines well with Craftworld mobility, is cheap, and keeps the whole unit focused on getting into range of infantry and shooting, or zoning out from cover.

- Missile launchers are pricier, but I'm totally sold on the math for how good their are in so many situations in 8th edition. In the "olden days," a list that capped out at Str 8 would be in serious trouble. Now a) there aren't so many better options for Eldar anyway b) in so many situations, two missile launchers are better than one dedicated anti tank weapon and one dedicated anti infantry weapon. Plus flexibility, anti cheese.

- Bright lance is really good against 2+ armor saves and heavy armor, better than a missile launcher (although not 2x better).

The questions about which weapons to take are not limited to Guardians... but the question becomes one of which weapons have synergy with Guardians while avoiding over investment in what most people consider to not be such a good Troops choice in the first place.

[edit]

There is also topic of total army composition. I like the idea of an army kitted out with as many missile launchers as possible.

However, a different approach would be to take shuriken cannons most of the time, for the extremely efficient anti infantry, and then for "tank hunting" take units like dark reapers, fire dragons, or other suggestions. It would be a bit scary to have all your anti tank in one or two units, and it would be easier to over whelm with more armor than you're used to.

[Saim-Dann]

G'day MechTau!
Actually, have three units of Guardians in the Eldar list and I think they're a hoot. If we load them with bright lances they are too expensive for the length of time they survive. Heavy weapons also make them a bigger target, so they leave the table even faster.

Arming them with the Sh.Cannon Makes them, as you say, great anti-infantry. Doing this also allows more points available for our stronger units, and less of a target. Allowing them to get into range to support the combat units.

Tag teaming a Guardian unit with your Scorpions/Banchies/W.Guard is a lethal combo... Pointy ears forever!!     

[Blazinghand]

Defenders with a Shuriken Cannon is also nice because the Platform has Battle Focus as well, meaning you can move very quickly and have a big threat range. Many opponents will be surprised by the threat range of defenders. You can move, advance, and shoot without penalty, giving you a threat range with your Catapults of 20-25", putting out a ton of shots. Although Catapults have short range, they are some of the best basic guns in the game in terms of damage output.

10 Guardians + 1 Shuriken Cannon Platform is a nifty unit that is ok on foot (though don't expect it to hold up to sustained fire) and solid if transported into range.

The main downside is that although Shuriken Catapult is a great gun, it's on a weak frame that is easily shot at. Also, Morale will often be a problem for Defenders. I give my warlord the Inspiring Leader Warlord Trait and keep him near the Defenders, and sometimes run a Warlock with Embolden as well. This makes them less likely to lose models to Morale.

I have run Bright Lances on them before and it's ok, but you'll often find the purpose of Bright Lance at odds with the Shuriken Catapults; you'll want to Advance but doing so costs you a Bright Lance shot. Still, it's not actually bad, just feels sub-optimal.

[Partninja]

Keep in mind a lot of these suggestions might change, or new ideas will pop up as our new codex will be out soon enough.

However, I exclusively take a shuriken cannon with my defender guardians. Simply because in cover, it has the durability of terminator armor, and I allocate wounds to it first. It can often survive a whole volley of small arms fire from a unit  of bolters or similar profile.

Guardians are actually quite strong in that the shuriken catapult is a very powerful basic weapon in a fairly cheap unit.

[volatilegaz]

Defender Guardians are not the best place to put your anti-tank IMO, for reasons describe above. They are much better in an anti-infantry role and amongst our best units for anti-horde.

But we do have lots of good anti tank units -Reapers, Fire Dragons, War Walkers, Shining Spears and Wraith Units all do that job well. Storm Guardians with 2 x fusion can also contribute, but they would probably need a serpent if you wanted to rely on them, and with that point investment included you're generally better off going for Dragons or Wraithguard .

In 8th ed you can't reduce a tank's effectiveness with a single Bright Lance shot anymore like you could in 5th, so specialist units bringing multiple weapons to bear are the best solution for taking down / crippling tanks.

[Blazinghand]

Also, unless you have an Avatar, I also would be hesitant to field anything other than 10-strong Defender squads. Even at 10 models, the squad is somewhat susceptible to morale. A 10-strong squad + 1 Platform is the way to go.