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Author Topic: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games  (Read 329 times)

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Offline Katamari Damacy

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1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« on: April 21, 2017, 10:44:40 AM »
Hey y'all!

Been building some Marines for the last couple of weeks and now I'd like to field them  8). I've used two boxes of Betrayal @ Calth, 5 Jump Pack guys and a Box of Devastators, a Land Raider and a Rhino. The list represents what I would like to play, but I realize this is not very competitive. I have a game incoming next weekend vs. my friend's Orks; Chaos and Blood Angels will also be faced on a regular basis.

Here's what I'm going for:

1x Librarian - lvl2, Terminator Armor

10x Terminator - 1 Heavy Flamer, 1 Cyclone Launcher, 3 Chainfist
+ Land Raider Redeemer, Multimelta
1x Venerable Dreadnought - Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer
1x Venerable Dreadnought - Multimelta, Heavy Flamer

10x Tac Marines, Flamer, Heavy Bolter, Meltabomb
+ Rhino
10x Tac Marines, Plasma, Heavy Bolter

5x Assault Marines, 2x Flamer, Jump Packs

10x Devastator, 2x Rocket Launcher, 2x Laser Cannon
1x Vindicator

~some 20 pts to play with


The plan is to advance to the midfield and stay there. Half the Termies will be boarding the LRR while the other half will be slogging along my Tac Marines and Dreads. The Devastators will split as well and help with some fire support. Unfortunately the list is very light on AT weaponry, it lacks in things like Deepstrike-Suicide-Melta whatever and overall, I think I could beat this list with pretty much anything from my Aeldari collection.

Those Terminators really eat up a lot of points but I love the Cataphracti models too much to not play them. I'd like to get some input from SM Veterans; what should I add/remove? What would be a good way to add more AT weapons? Is it even viable to run that many Termies besides the Fun aspect?

Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 10:46:59 AM by Katamari Damacy »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 12:35:29 PM »
First question that comes to mind is which Chapter are these guys from. That can alter the advice considerably.

Second, you are very close to fielding a couple different formations with some alterations here and there, and that can boost your overall strength considerably.

Offline Katamari Damacy

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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 12:45:56 PM »
Hey Wyddr!

I've painted them as 30k Emperor's Children because IMHO that looks awesome. When it comes to rules, I've been thinking Imperial Fists (love Bolter Drill on paper), Iron Hands (for FOC shenanigans) or Salamanders (since I kinda ended up with a lot of Flamers). But then again, I'd be fine fielding them as Ultras as well... so yeah. I kinda like Imperial Fists best I guess.

Haven't really considered fielding Formations for reasons given above, but there's certainly some interesting stuff (I mainly like the 1st Company task Force and the Skyhammer thing from AoD also looks seriously brutal). I guess I'll have to invest in Drop Pods sooner or later and I also quite like the idea of Land Speeders with Meltas. No love for Cents, any of the Flyers or the Artillery Cannon.

PS: would it make sense to run the Dreads as Contemptors? Looks like a lot of points but that's an option I forgot to mention.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 12:52:32 PM by Katamari Damacy »
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Offline Cavalier

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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 02:32:13 PM »
Hey Katamari. Cool list! Definitley very casual but should do well enough for you. I would definitely invest in some Drop Pods as time goes on. Getting those Dreadies right into the thick of it is nasty. Dreadies are sooo nasty these days which I love.

I think the 10 Terminators is pretty extreme... I think you could just deepstrike them just as easily. If they are Cataphractii they'll have a real solid invuln save too. So at that huge a number I'd rely on that and perhaps use the Land Raider as an offensive tool instead.

As for getting more AT into your list, give those Cataphractii boys some combi-meltas. Or as time goes on some 1st Company Task Force with melta power is REALLY nasty.

If you are going up against Orks, Chaos and Blood Angels... chances are they be running right at you which would really play to your hand. If it turns into a footslog it'll be somewhat challenging and expect to take some lumps as you get to grips with your opponent. But good use of cover should help.

As for future purchases... you may want to hold off on anything formation specific as it may disappear in 8th edition. I think some drop pods and sternguard would be VERY solid and reliable, regardless of the edition change.

Anyway really awesome foundation for your new collection. Make sure you let us know how you do. Let us know any further thoughts you have too. Good luck!
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Offline Saim-dann

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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 10:35:41 PM »
Nice list, Katamari!
Dreads in drop pods are a hoot, (Dreads in drop pods. There's a war shanty in that). My Doggies run 2/3 units of Long Fang, transported in Razorbacks. Not only do the tanks increase the AT firepower, they also block line of sight to the LF. While the LF are firing at one unit, the RB is protecting their flank from charging enemy units or firepower. The same can be done with your five man Devastator units.     
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 11:09:27 AM »
Okay, with a *bit* more time on my hands, here's some more specific advice on your list. For the record, I will assume you are playing Imperial Fists.

1x Librarian - lvl2, Terminator Armor

While I don't have any inherent problem with this guy as an HQ, the presence of a librarian removes access to a wide variety of formations which, I feel, would serve you better than a single Libby would. Change this dude into a cheap captain or, if you've got the points lying around, a Chapter Master.

Quote
10x Terminator - 1 Heavy Flamer, 1 Cyclone Launcher, 3 Chainfist
+ Land Raider Redeemer, Multimelta

Split this unit into two units of 5 Terminators. I'm not crazy about the Land Raider, in general, since there's a bit too much of a target on its head to survive drop melta and so-on. You might be better served changing that Land Raider into another unit of Terminators and putting them in a First Company Strike Force.

Quote
1x Venerable Dreadnought - Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer
1x Venerable Dreadnought - Multimelta, Heavy Flamer

I'm inclined to suggest dropping one of these so that you can put them into a Battle Demi-Company. You could, of course, keep them in one unit for the same effect. As they seem to largely be fulfilling the same battlefield role, that seems wise.

Quote
10x Tac Marines, Flamer, Heavy Bolter, Meltabomb
+ Rhino

Unless you're mounting them in a drop pod, don't take a full squad of 10 Tacs. The Rhino isn't a reliable enough transport to take them where they need to go. If you plan on combat squadding anyway, just split them into two separate units and bingo, you've got a Battle Demi-Company and access to all it's goodies. If you took a 1st Company Strike Force, you now have a Gladius Detachment. Enjoy all those doctrines, my friend.

Quote
10x Tac Marines, Plasma, Heavy Bolter

Trim to a smaller squad. Given your overall lack of AP 2, I'm inclined to suggest taking a 5-6 man squad with a plasma gun and a combiplasma in a Rhino. Better still would be a Grav Cannon and combi grav in a Rhino.

Quote
5x Assault Marines, 2x Flamer, Jump Packs
A good unit to deepstrike and use to get Linebreaker or to take out weak objective holders. Also gives you access to the DemiCompany, which again I recommend.

Quote
10x Devastator, 2x Rocket Launcher, 2x Laser Cannon

Missile Launchers are terrible (terrible) unless you have a dire need for anti-aircraft fire. 4 Lascannons, please. You don't need 10 guys.

Quote
1x Vindicator

This doesn't quite fit with the list, I'm afraid. I mean, yes, your list as-is could take a lone Vindicator, but it has been my experience that 1 Vindicator does very little, whereas 2-3 Vindicators are pure gold. Personally, I'd take it out.

With point saved from dropping a Venerable Dread and the Vindi, you could re-buy a LR for some terminators (not my favorite choice). You could buy a unit of Sternguard in a drop pod for the First Company Strike Force (which is a good one). You could buy yourself a command squad in a pod weighed down with special weapons for the DemiCompany (which is also pretty handy). In general, you could use some of these points to fill out squads and give them special equipment, which might also be handy. 

I should note that the list you have, as-is, isn't bad. It just isn't taking advantage of many of the special rules that the SM codex offers--Doctrines, formation bonuses, etc..

My .02, for what it's worth.


Offline Katamari Damacy

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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 10:20:24 AM »
Thanks for all the good advice! It seems like I have chosen a really bad point in time to come up with this, seeing how 8th is around the corner.

The main reasons for not organizing my force in formations was "objective secured" (never won a game when my opponent had it and I didn't) and also because I've learned that nothing in the game will stay the same forever.  ::)

I will definitely get a Drop Pod, probably two - although I kinda wanted to keep the army smallish and not buy multiples of the same vehicle. I see how valuable they can be and I have to admit that I didn't even realize Dreads can use them too  :-[. As for the Vindicator, I'm not sure I'll be getting another one. I planned to use it mainly to deny my opponent certain areas of the battlefield but it's not a unit I would want to field most of the time (like the Termies).

I still have lots of bodies left from which I can easily build some of the Elite choices like the Sternguard but I think I'll just wait and see what 8th has to offer. I guess I'll also have to consider getting another box of Devastators - currently I have only 2 each for the heavy weapons (except Bolters and Rockets from B@C).

Again, thank you guys for the insight! It's highly appreciated and helps a lot for my army planning.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 10:23:07 AM by Katamari Damacy »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 10:36:23 AM »
As you say, 8th is going to fundamentally change a lot of this advice (but who knows exactly how much), but I will say this:

If you like Objective Secured, then you for damned sure should be using a Demi-Company, which beats the pants off of the CAD for that particular rule. Of course, given that all of that is probably going away, then who knows?

As for the lone Vindi: they just don't work. Like, at all. That one shot they need to make? They're gonna miss it. Every time. Been running Vindis since 5th Edition, and every time I take only one, it does nothing and died. Every time I take two, I blow up vast swathes of the enemy. Getting a re-do on that one big shot is huge, huge, huge.

I mean, I guess you could have your Libby babysit the thing and cast Prescience on it over and over, but that's a waste of a Libby.

And again, depending on what happens with Blast rules in 8th, Vindis might get much better or even much, much worse, depending. We'll have to see.   

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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2017, 10:55:51 AM »
The list looks like fun. Lots of options for combat squading. Only thing I'd say, is you might as well use the rules for the Cataphrati terminators and contemptor dreads from the Angels of Death book, as you're going to be using the models anyway.
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Offline Katamari Damacy

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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2017, 11:44:06 AM »
Yup I thought about the Contemptor and the Cataphractii from AoD. They come with superb Saves and I like how the Dread has the Fleet USR.

I'll be honest here and say that I went for regular Termies because of "Slow and Purposeful" vs "other", (for which I forgot the English word). Combi Bolters also look kinda bad compared to Stormbolters but what's most important for me is the option to have an Assault Cannon or the Cyclone Launcher, whereas Cataphractii only get the Heavy Flamer.

Then again, I might just as well try some Cataphractii while they have rules  ;). In fact, I'll probably get some more of them and make them Assault Termies since the Kit has the best looking Claws of all Termie kits out there IMHO.

Have any of you tried those units yourself? I have read little to no feedback about them on the web, so I guessed people would either use them as regular Dreads/Termies or indeed use them for 30k.
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Re: 1850 Pts of Vanilla Marines for friendly games
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 02:44:48 PM »
Well, the Cataphratii Captain is really good, as he can give Slow and Purposeful to a nit of Devastators. Combi-Bolters are better at 12" and under, Storm Bolters are better 12"+

Contemptors are really cool. Armour 13 hull is really nice, and having a save is nice too. They are much more expensive for that though, but their assault cannon is SICK.

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