Topic: Satanism 2K5 ~ The why's and what's [WARNING: PG - 15] Read at own risk

[The Mullet]

The problem, MR. The Pickleman with a Mullet, is that you base all your arguments on your own experiences, and you refuse to listen when someone comes along and says "this works for me".

Its not that I'm not listening.  Its just that you're points have yet to change my opinion.  Which is, Satanism will work for a bit, but will beslubber you over, one way or another, in the end.

Sorry if I have compassion for everyone around me and I'd rather not see people suffer needlessly.

It does. The key word that has been left out is moderation. You obviously misread it back when you lived by it.

How could I misread something that wasn't there?  and isn't Moderate Indulgence bording on an oxymoron?

As stated, this is about living...

What's wrong with living?  Enjoying life is very important!  My point is that enjoying life will be a lot easier if you're not lining youself up to be arrested or having to pay child care.

And is it good to hand money to beggars who drink up the money, to love people who drag you down, who ditches you when the heat is on, only to return later when the sea is calm again? How about loving your husband when he beats you up, and promises that it'll never happen  again? When was that good?

So what if there 5 beggers on the street, 2 of them want money to go drinking, and the other 3 need it for food.  You would let those 3 strave to death because of the other 2?
And if your neighbour down the street was being beaten up by her husband.  If you don't know her you wouldn't do anything?

Someone please tell me why Satanists think that you only have a limited supply of love in your heart?  If a mother has one child, she love that kid with all her heart.  If she has 10 more kids, would she love them as much as she did her first, or would her love be divided among them or she would play favorites?

Humans are capable of so much compassion and all you have to do is forget about your own damn selfish wants and desires for few seconds to give a freakin quarter to someone who could be hungry.  Please tell me how you're going to break the bank doing this?  Why is this so hard?  What the worse thing that could happen?

And vengance doesn't mean killing... As stated, it says "get even", not "if he hits you, go kill him".

Yes, but my point was that if both were getting revenge on each other for each hit that was exchanged, it would never end.  Someone has to turn the other cheek at some point to stop it. 

You've gotten that one so wrong it isn't even funny...

Yeah well, its hard to get things right when they're making rules for life and don't bother to go into too much detail with them.

Green Peace? Pah! Enviromentalist nazis! And when were human more than animal? Take a look at history man...

That's my point.  To a Satanist who accepts the fact that humans are no more then animals, then shouldn't they be taking care of their home; The Earth?

No, it mean we like to have sex, we like to enjoy fine meals and good drinks, we like to do things our way, we like to give the world the finger and sleep in, and we dislike being told what to do.

D'uh, who doesn't, but you can't do any of those without conciquences.  If you did what you said above, constantly, you'd end up on the street.

Unless, like you said near the start, you do in things in moderation, which is going against rule 1.  Meaning you would be a Satanist Lite at best.  :

Ah yes... And all the souls in Satan's army will be obliterated, and not forgiven, by the fascist "God" who won't share his "paradise". I've heard the tale before. Tell me, Mulletman(if you'll pardon me calling you that), but what particular xtian faith do you belong to? The girl who told me that tale is and adventist.

It says in the bible that those who did not give their life to the Lord, at the end of revalation they shall all be judged.  Meaning, if you're a good person, you go to heaven, and bad go to hell.  I think.  It doesn't actualy say that, just 'they will be judged'

But think of it this way; (I used this parable before but I'll say it again)
Let's say you're parents are supporting you with money while you live with them and work out of town.  You decide that working sucks and you want to do things you own way.  So you steal 1,000's of dollars from your dad's life savings and go and piss it all away on sex, fine foods, and other indulgences.
Then you realize one day, you're out of money and you can't find work.  So you decided to go home and you can say one of two things;
1) Hey dad, I'm moving back in and I expect to get more money.
2) Hi dad, I'm sorry.  I've been a moron, will you forgive me and help me get back on my feet?

if you said 1, do you really think your Dad would let you move in again without a hint of punishment?  I severly doubt it.

And Mulletman will work just fine 

And when did you become an expert on religion? OK, so satanism didn't work for you. Pity. You found a substitute in xtianity, good for you. But stop telling other that "it sucks, because I tried it, and it failed". I tried smoking once, and ended up almost coughing my lungs out(figuratively speaking), but I don't run around decrying smoking as dangerous. Some xtian fundies passed a law here in Norway that forbids smoking in resturants, bars, etc, simply because some longtime bar workers had developed asthma. I didn't support that law, even thoigh I'm a non-smoker and have allergies.

I've only been a Christian for a few years now.  So i'm so not and expert, but I've done enough in my life to know better.  Also, I'm still finding my niche' in Christianity.  So far I'm just reading the bible and taking its teachings to heart.  Though, I went to a Partners in Harvest church last weekend and I liked it. 
Which brings me to a really interesting thought I had about the bible.  Its been brought up here, that its not the most well written book in history.  But I don't really think that matters.  Let's say there's this hidden moutain trail that hasn't gotten anything offical on it yet.  What you have is the journals of many people who have walked that path.  So you can read it as much as you want to and compare the differences in the journals...
but until you actually walk that path, how do you truely know what's right and wrong?
A few years ago I picked up a guide book call the Holy Bible and I started down the path to God.  I'm finding out from day to day what's really important to me from this book as I continue on.  And with God's help, I think I'm doing really well concidering where I'm coming from.

anyways... back to the topic at hand....

I pity you Mr. Mulletman, for your conversion has blinded you to the possibility of other enjoying what you didn't.

How do you know what I have and haven't done in my life?  I used to call myself Egomaniac666 online.  I've had lots of sex and even threesomes.  I've gotten drunk, high, and had a full, large, meat-lovers pizza to myself and asked for seconds.

Looking back.  They were rather pointless experiences.  The only thing I gained from them is the knowledge why I'm never doing them again!

Trying to feel fulfilled on fleeting moments of pleasure like that seems silly to me now.  And living day to day just waiting for the next time you can feel like that again is just.... a waste of a life.  In my opinion.  You're not getting anything done, you're wasting money on something that could cause you great pain later.  If you're drinking, it more then likely will be causeing you great pain in the morning.

Heheh... oh my... I'm probably going to get a lot of angry replies to this post.  But, its a free country right?  I have the right to my own opinion about things.

p.s.
I have nothing against people having a few drinks, heck, Jesus drank, he could turn water to wine!  Its getting drunk and loosing all your money for a night that you can't even remember I have a problem against.  If you really want to do that, try this;
Walk into a biker bar, scream out "Harley Davison sucks!" and you will wake up in the same condition as if you've been drinking all night.  But if you leave your money at home, it won't cost you a dime! 

[Rasmus]

The problem, MR. The Pickleman with a Mullet, is that you base all your arguments on your own experiences, and you refuse to listen when someone comes along and says "this works for me".

Its not that I'm not listening.  Its just that you're points have yet to change my opinion.  Which is, Satanism will work for a bit, but will beslubber you over, one way or another, in the end.

   But that means you are still not listening though. If someone is saying that it is working for them, better than it was for you since you feel you have been cheated in the end, then you should just let them do it then. The experiences that you had are not universally applicable, but your personal ones, and while you did not find peace or happiness on that road that does not mean that noone can. Thinking that you hold the only answer to this question is truly very arrogant, not to mention narrow-minded. So you had a lousy time in the end; poor you, we all feel for you, but the fact is that not all will be/are as you, and some may find happiness in this life that you didn't, and had to change. You should just learn to accept that.

[Irandrura]

Rasmus summarised it fairly well, but I want to take each point individually...

Its not that I'm not listening.  Its just that you're points have yet to change my opinion.  Which is, Satanism will work for a bit, but will beslubber you over, one way or another, in the end.

Sorry if I have compassion for everyone around me and I'd rather not see people suffer needlessly.

What is suffering? Your opinion is that Satanists are suffering because of their beliefs, and so you want to change them. But, how much more suffering would you create by restricting their freedom? If I was a Satanist, and I was constantly being heckled by an evangelical Christian, I would be suffering greatly.

How could I misread something that wasn't there?  and isn't Moderate Indulgence bording on an oxymoron?

No. As you say yourself, Jesus enjoyed himself, had a few drinks, etc. Isn't wine an indulgence in itself? Are you suggesting self-mortification is the only way to go? The way I read this statement, you're saying people aren't allowed to enjoy themselves.

What's wrong with living?  Enjoying life is very important!  My point is that enjoying life will be a lot easier if you're not lining youself up to be arrested or having to pay child care.

Who says Satanists are law breakers? None of their dogma promotes unlawful behaviour. You're making a blanket assumption unsupported by facts.

So what if there 5 beggers on the street, 2 of them want money to go drinking, and the other 3 need it for food.  You would let those 3 strave to death because of the other 2?

How do you know which beggars are which? How can you be sure whether a person is starving or just an alcoholic? Are you acquainted with Objectivism? It has merits.

And if your neighbour down the street was being beaten up by her husband.  If you don't know her you wouldn't do anything?

If the person being beaten was a friend, a Satanist would certainly help out. If not, they wouldn't interfere, wouldn't march in and demand that the couple conform to their moral standards. I consider that perfectly reasonable and fair behaviour.

Someone please tell me why Satanists think that you only have a limited supply of love in your heart?  If a mother has one child, she love that kid with all her heart.  If she has 10 more kids, would she love them as much as she did her first, or would her love be divided among them or she would play favorites?

It's part of the belief that love is precious, extremely valuable, too valuable to hand out to everyone. In this, they're acknowledging that jealousy does exist and can be very important.

The example with the 11-child mother doesn't really fly because no mother does love all her children with all of her heart, all equally. She's imperfect. This is an essential part of Christian doctrine, that humans are sinful beings.

Humans are capable of so much compassion and all you have to do is forget about your own damn selfish wants and desires for few seconds to give a freakin quarter to someone who could be hungry.  Please tell me how you're going to break the bank doing this?  Why is this so hard?  What the worse thing that could happen?

Tell me, do you stop to give a coin whenever you encounter a homeless person? Are they not acting as a leech? The government gives out welfare payments, why do they need your money? What you're doing here is condemning people for not doing what you perceive as good.

How can you condemn someone for taking no action? Are all humans morally obligated to do what you think is right?

Yes, but my point was that if both were getting revenge on each other for each hit that was exchanged, it would never end.  Someone has to turn the other cheek at some point to stop it. 

Does that happen, though? Suppose a friend teases you by giving you a punch. You throw a punch back, and you have a friendly tussle. When it's over, you're both bruised, you've both given and taken a fair bit of violence, but you're both still friends, and you get on fine.

For a larger-scale example, take the Second World War. Specifically, Japan and Germany. They both had absolutely horrific things done to them, but time heals all wounds, and today they're on very good terms with the nations that defeated them. Japan especially is very friendly with the United States. According to your theory, they should still be waiting to repay the atomic bombs.

Yeah well, its hard to get things right when they're making rules for life and don't bother to go into too much detail with them.

You could say the exact same thing about the Ten Commandments. Thanks for going into such detail, God!

That's my point.  To a Satanist who accepts the fact that humans are no more then animals, then shouldn't they be taking care of their home; The Earth?

Do animals? Humans are the only race which actually tries to conserve natural resources. An example is the Cane Toad. If what you're saying is true, the Cane Toads should have stopped their rampage across north-east Australia because they're animals, and animals protect the environment. Or perhaps the Brown Tree Snake should have let the Guam Micronesian Kingfisher go?

D'uh, who doesn't, but you can't do any of those without conciquences.  If you did what you said above, constantly, you'd end up on the street.

Unless, like you said near the start, you do in things in moderation, which is going against rule 1.  Meaning you would be a Satanist Lite at best.  :

1/ There are consequences, but they aren't anywhere near that bad. What's wrong with eating good food, enjoying sex, and doing things your own way?

2/ The first Satanic statement says nothing about moderation, it's perfectly okay.

It says in the bible that those who did not give their life to the Lord, at the end of revalation they shall all be judged.  Meaning, if you're a good person, you go to heaven, and bad go to hell.  I think.  It doesn't actualy say that, just 'they will be judged'

Wow, that's still horribly genocidal.

But think of it this way; (I used this parable before but I'll say it again)
Let's say you're parents are supporting you with money while you live with them and work out of town.  You decide that working sucks and you want to do things you own way.  So you steal 1,000's of dollars from your dad's life savings and go and piss it all away on sex, fine foods, and other indulgences.
Then you realize one day, you're out of money and you can't find work.  So you decided to go home and you can say one of two things;
1) Hey dad, I'm moving back in and I expect to get more money.
2) Hi dad, I'm sorry.  I've been a moron, will you forgive me and help me get back on my feet?

if you said 1, do you really think your Dad would let you move in again without a hint of punishment?  I severly doubt it.

The parable of the two sons? It's a good parable, but not relevant here. Firstly, it assume original sin - that is, that collective humanity has committed such crimes against God. Secondly, it assumes that such actions are crimes. Thirdly, it assumes that God requires humans to admit guilt to be forgiven (what happened to infinite mercy?) and administers punishment in the case of failure.

I've only been a Christian for a few years now.  So i'm so not and expert, but I've done enough in my life to know better.  Also, I'm still finding my niche' in Christianity.  So far I'm just reading the bible and taking its teachings to heart.  Though, I went to a Partners in Harvest church last weekend and I liked it. 
Which brings me to a really interesting thought I had about the bible.  Its been brought up here, that its not the most well written book in history.  But I don't really think that matters.  Let's say there's this hidden moutain trail that hasn't gotten anything offical on it yet.  What you have is the journals of many people who have walked that path.  So you can read it as much as you want to and compare the differences in the journals...
but until you actually walk that path, how do you truely know what's right and wrong?
A few years ago I picked up a guide book call the Holy Bible and I started down the path to God.  I'm finding out from day to day what's really important to me from this book as I continue on.  And with God's help, I think I'm doing really well concidering where I'm coming from.

Nothing against Christians, it's a very fine religion full of very fine people. But, as with all religions, there are a few crackpots out there. You, my friend, are almost one of them.

How do you know what I have and haven't done in my life?  I used to call myself Egomaniac666 online.  I've had lots of sex and even threesomes.  I've gotten drunk, high, and had a full, large, meat-lovers pizza to myself and asked for seconds.

Looking back.  They were rather pointless experiences.  The only thing I gained from them is the knowledge why I'm never doing them again!

Trying to feel fulfilled on fleeting moments of pleasure like that seems silly to me now.  And living day to day just waiting for the next time you can feel like that again is just.... a waste of a life.  In my opinion.  You're not getting anything done, you're wasting money on something that could cause you great pain later.  If you're drinking, it more then likely will be causeing you great pain in the morning.

What works for you, works for you. We're not trying to convert you to Satanism or anything. Stick with Christianity, if that's what you want.

[The Mullet]

Okay, just a few clairifications

Irandrura, sorry if I start sounding like a "crackpot"  but when God comes into your life and makes it an infinite times better, its really difficult not to start preaching on the mountain top.  When you get excited about something, you want to share it with others, right?
If you got a cool Forgeworld model and its painted all nice, wouldn't you want to play with it and not keep it locked up at you house?

Yes Rasmus, I know that my experiences are unique to me.  Obviously.  But are you saying that something similar cannot happen to someone else?
And please don't call me Narrow-Minded.  I do listen to other people's opinion and take it to heart.  And 99% of them, do make sense.  And... Arg! I'm going to start repeating myself!

What I wanted to say about Satanism was already said.  I'm not going to sit here and say the same things for another 300 posts.

I knew when I started posting on this topic, that there's no way I was going to convince everyone to steer away from Satanism.  All I hope is that a few people learned that Satanism is not for them and that there are better paths out there.

I think I'm done......

[Rasmus]

Yes Rasmus, I know that my experiences are unique to me.  Obviously.  But are you saying that something similar cannot happen to someone else?

  If that was the case then you would just outline your experiences and tell those who are interested that this might happen to them. This is not how you have presented your argument. At all. If you want to try to convince someone... oh well, goes something about honey and vinegar. You are waving a big "everything is bad"-stick, and of course that makes you come across as an antagonist, even though you might mean well.

And please don't call me Narrow-Minded. 

   I never called you narrow-minded, just stated that the attitude that you and only you know the truth and that no other alternative exists was narrow-minded. That I stick by, incidentally. I didn't mean to offend, just tell you that any such absolutism usually comes across in a bad way, and get hammered down. Again, vinegar and honey.

[The Mullet]

yeah... that probably comes from me engish no really good.  Sorry.

[Adarachir]

One point that I cannot remember seeing here, is the exact interpretation of rules in various religions. The topic has been brough up, more than once. So, in an effort to enlighten, my take on the 9 Satanic Statements, and the 11 Satanic rules. I'd like to state that these are just examples, not the definite way I interpret these statements.

#The nine Satanic statements

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

Eat, drink, make merry, tomorrow you will be dead, and we all know that you'll regret what you didn't do more than what you did...

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

Realise that humans are alone. We have no divine powers watching us, and we're all insignificant in the grand scheme of thins. Rewards in the afterlife? Pah, no such thing. I'm alive now, not once I am dead and rotting.

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

Be real people. Also, see my comment on #2...

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!

Here I'll use an example from Norwegian criminal history. A few years back, two /&¤/ raped and murdered to girls at around the age of 9. Brutally so... There is no way I'll have compassion or love for those two SoBs, not in a million years.

Also, that beggar on the streets won't receive a dime from me. He can go bug someone with "compassion". I have enough with myself and ,my friends.

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

Do onto others as they do unto you.

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

No way if I'm going to take any responsibility for the actions of others, least of all the actions of people to dumb to take care of themselves, even if they are kin.

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

Take a look at history. Holocaust, Agent Orange, the Crusades. 'nuff said...

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

Sleep in, be lazy, eat your fill, and then some, and if someone strikes you, strike back.

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

If the Church didn't have Satan as a bogey-man, how would they keep the flock in line...?

The 11 satanic rules

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

Shut up until spoken to, or asked. No one likes a besserwisser.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

As #1.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

Common sense and manners, folks...

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

Simple: if your guest is rude, make him/her leave.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

If you get positive signals when making a pass on someone, go ahead. A no is still a no, however, even if she/he only changes her/his mind once you are in bed.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

Don't steal unless you are positive that the item will not be missed, or the person makes it clear he/she would be rid of it. Very hard to adjudicate, so the best thing would be not to steal(unless you know you'll get away with it...).

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

Simple: don't pretend to have made it unaided if you used magic to accomplish something.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

If you broke a leg climbing that mountain, stop wining. You went voluntarily...

9. Do not harm little children.

A no-brainer... I'd like to see someone fault this one...

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

A no-brainer again...

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Show respect, and use common sense.

[Irandrura]

Irandrura, sorry if I start sounding like a "crackpot"  but when God comes into your life and makes it an infinite times better, its really difficult not to start preaching on the mountain top.  When you get excited about something, you want to share it with others, right?
If you got a cool Forgeworld model and its painted all nice, wouldn't you want to play with it and not keep it locked up at you house?

I said 'almost'. You're on the edge. By 'crackpots' I was referring to the fundamentalists out there, and while you're obviously not fundamentalist yet, I want to warn you to stay away from that path, it leads nowhere.

I'm also entirely opposed to evangelism, which is what you seem to be doing. I don't think anyone should tell people what to believe in a matter as important as religion. Because of that, I can't let you go preaching Christianity without opposition, at least not without betraying my moral code. Tell others about your religion (that's what this topic is about!), answer questions, but never tell them 'my way is better'. Can you understand that?

[OldCrow]

Quote
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

Realise that humans are alone. We have no divine powers watching us, and we're all insignificant in the grand scheme of thins. Rewards in the afterlife? Pah, no such thing. I'm alive now, not once I am dead and rotting.

I want to know whether CoS worships satan? as the above quote conflicts with several statements and passages on the Churchs Homepage.  I wont post a link to them because the last link posted was removed due to content.

[Rasmus]

No they do not. Satan is a representation of freedom and achievement, not a deity to worship. That would be Devil-worship, which is a radically different movement than the Satanists. I understand the confusion but they are not related in any way. Most satanists, as a matter of interest, despise the Devilworshipers.

[Adarachir]

Most satanists, as a matter of interest, despise the Devilworshipers.

Technically, the devil worshipers are also satanists. It just so happens that satnaism is a divived thing: "historical" satanism(as envisaged by the Werewolf Order(I think...it's a german order, boasting such members as relatives of LaVey himself...) and other such devil worshiping cults) and "moderate" satanism(as envisaged by the Thelemists(Crowley) and the CoS(LaVey(who was, btw, not a doctor... So no Dr. LaVey...)).

[Rasmus]

The division is pretty much the same as between deists and non-deists everywhere, where one contains the philosophy and one the philosophy and worship. The two sides tend to never get along, and this is true in this case as well.

[OldCrow]

i understand what you say rasmus, its just i visted the website and it it mentioned certain things that would be hard to take any other way.  I guess i'm still confused thats all 

[Homun]

Satanists aye? I know a friend at work who is one. Personally I am intrigue with religion and all other sorts of things but one thing gets me. Satanistism is not about freedom, nor is beleiving in god because both restrain you since there are set things you have to follow, sure you can interpet them however you like but in the end if you still follow it to any degree then your denying any sense of freedom that you believe you have. 

[Adarachir]

Satanists aye? I know a friend at work who is one. Personally I am intrigue with religion and all other sorts of things but one thing gets me. Satanistism is not about freedom, nor is beleiving in god because both restrain you since there are set things you have to follow, sure you can interpet them however you like but in the end if you still follow it to any degree then your denying any sense of freedom that you believe you have. 

Denying any sense of freedom? Explain please...