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Author Topic: 2250 Multi-detachment list - Trial by fire!  (Read 1193 times)

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Offline SeekingOne

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2250 Multi-detachment list - Trial by fire!
« on: October 30, 2017, 11:24:20 AM »
Hi All! :)

I'm going to a 2250 pts local tournament this weekend, and TOs confirmed that I can use the newly released Craftworlds codex, hurrah!!!  ;D Can't even begin saying how excited I am :) Can't think of a better opportunity to give the new codex a true trial by fire.

I obviously didn't have a chance to update my models collection yet, so the list I'm planning to take is based mostly on my 7th edition models :) At the same time, with the new rules and reduced point costs, I feel that most of them are quite playable again - and this will be a great opportunity to verify my feeling.

Here's the list I'm currently thinking about:

Quote
Detachment: Battalion (Craftworld?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

HQ 1: Farseer Skyrunner (Witchblade, Fortune, Doom) - [135]
HQ 2: Maugan Ra - [140]

Troops 1: 5 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Dual avenger shuricat) - [64]
Troops 2: 5 Dire Avengers - [60]
Troops 3: 5 Dire Avengers - [60]

Elites 1: 5 Fire Dragons (Exarch, Dragon's breath flamer) - [120]
 - Wave Serpent (Spirit stone, Shuriken cannon, Twin shuriken cannon) - [144]

Fast Attack 1: 7 Warp Spiders - [126]

Heavy Support 1: 5 Dark Reapers - [135]

Detachment: Outrider (Saim-Hann)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

HQ 1: Warlock Skyrunner (Witchblade, Protect/Jinx) - [70]

Fast Attack 1: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 2: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 3: Vyper (Shuriken cannon, Starcannon) - [75]

Detachment: Super-heavy Auxiliary (Craftworld?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wraithknight (Titanic ghostglaive&scattershield, 2 x Scatter laser) - [472]

Detachment: Air Wing (Craftworld?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Flyer 1: Crimson Hunter - [160]
Flyer 2: Crimson Hunter - [160]
Flyer 3: Crimson Hunter - [160]

Total: 2249
Command points: 8

This list is not even nearly as optimised as I'd like, but at least it looks quite flexible, with all kinds of firepower, good mobility and even a small bit of HtH. Wraithknight definitely is more of a liability than an asset, so to speak - but I don't have enough well-painted units to replace it with. Experience tells me that WK is bound to become target #1 in my opponent's first shooting phase - and that might actually be a good thing, because that would leave the Serpent and Hunters intact.

The biggest question I still have is - what Crafworld traits to use? The Outrider detachment is bound to be Saim-hann, but the other three are kind of hard to choose. Particularly for the flyers, Alaitoc, Ulthwe and even Iyanden look almost equally tempting. I'm leaning towards Iyanden for WK, and totally unsure about main battalion.

One other thing I'd love to test is deep striking something from the Webway, but of all these units the only reasonable candidate seems to be Dragons, and they probably need to be bolstered in size to make it worthwhile...?

Any thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated!  ;)
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2250 Multi-detachment list - Trial by fire!
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2017, 05:54:38 PM »
Ok, a few thoughts on this - going to try and tackle it easiest first.

Air Detachment - If you can squeze the points to make one an Exarch, I would definitely do that. Re-rolling half of your misses with him will help a good bit. For their Trait, I'd lean towards Alatioc. A -2 to hit on them is nasty, especially vs things with degrading profiles. It will make them all but invincible to Orks, and even IG and Tau will really struggle with them

WraithKnight. The old Sword and Board Approach... I think running him Iyanden is the way to go. Your opponent must knock him down to 3 wounds before he drops a damage tier. Then Tears of Isha can push him right back up again. That plus Fortune will make him stupid good IMO. For amphetamine parrots and Giggles, give him the Phoenix gem too. Whoops - not a Character so can't take relics. TBH, think about whom you want to take one Relic. It's a free upgrade, so make use of it. Shroud or Stones on a Warlock - or Autuarch on Bike with Nova Lance... lots of options


Your Battalion... lacks focus I think. This is what makes is so hard to know what to do with it...

The three squads of Avengers makes me want to run Biel-Tan. The Wave Serpent likes that too.

Not sure what models you have, but the Spiders don't really seem to help you any. I'd rather take almost anything else in this list that can benefit from Biel-Tan. More Avengers, a Ride for them, or some Warlock Support.

You seem a tad light on AT. Other than the Dragons. Fuegan could also be good. Fuegan + Dragons + Avengers in a Serpent. Use the CloudStrike to drop the serpent down, and weather some fire.

What other models do you have available? And are you dead set on taking the three fliers? 22% of your army is in them, and for the most part they will be hitting on 3+ 3 shots each. Could easily drop one, add them in to another detachment.

Assuming you have the models, I would drop all three planes. Take Illic, a ranger squad, and a Hemlock. Shift you Reapers to this detachment too. Add a 2 warlocks to your battalion. Add in some Banshees or Scorpions and you have a decent CC unit too. Lots of ways to play around with this... Depending on what you have available
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 06:11:08 PM by faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) »
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Partninja

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Re: 2250 Multi-detachment list - Trial by fire!
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2017, 09:17:59 PM »
Can you run multiples craftworld traits at once? I'm still waiting for my codex to ship so I'm not sure (I'm dieing to make some lists).

If you're going to run min squads of Avengers I would put two of the squads in the Serpent (and take an Exarch for each) and use a CP to deepstrike the Dragons (just run fusion guns). This will protect both easier. The dragons can be backed up by the spiders and the Knight easy enough. Perhaps the 3rd Avenger squad could be swapped for rangers if you have them.

I think the battalion lacks focus making a trait difficult. Biel-tan is out as there would need to be a lot more shurikens than you have currently. If you swapped your outrider loadouts to shuriken and also made that Biel-tan it could work.

Flyers definitely Alaitoc for the extra -1.

Knight could be Iyanden or Ulthwe. Both would work. Depends what you plan to face. If you feel it's going to get blasted turn one Ulthwe is probably better.

Perhaps a list of available units would help?

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 2250 Multi-detachment list - Trial by fire!
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2017, 04:00:08 AM »
Thanks for the feedback so far!

As for units I have available - it's kind of tricky :) Thing is, in the recent years I made a point of attending only those events that require armies to be painted to a relatively high quality standard. You know, just can't stand the mob of unwashed kids with untamed egos, bringing armies outcheesed beyond any reasonable limit and made of half-assembled bootleg-recast minis. Perhaps that's what getting old feels like, lol

Anyway, my own collection of models painted up to a sufficient quality is limited too. In addition to the units listed above, the only usable models I have ATM are:
- 6 more Fire Dragons
- 8 more Warp Spiders
- 3 more Scatter-bikes
- 10 Warlocks on foot
- Avatar of Khaine

There's a bunch of other stuff I have from the older days, but it's all painted in a crappy "3 colours minimum" style and won't be allowed.

Still, this list invariably has to be the starting point from which I'll have to expand towards something more cohesive and hopefully more efficient and competitive in the new 8th edition meta, so any thoughts and suggestions on where to take this army further are very welcome. And I already have quite a lot of stuff waiting to be painted (or re-painted), namely:

- 15 Dire Avengers;
- 20 or so Defender Guardians w/platforms
- 16 Storm Guardians
- 6 Windriders
- 1 box of Reapers
- 2 boxes of Scorpions
- 10 Wraithguard (5 of which are magnetised as Cannon/D-scythe and half-painted, the other 5 are untouched)
- 4 Wave Serpents
- 1 Falcon
- 1 Vyper
- 2 Flyer kits (which I plan to build as Hemlocks)
- 2 Prism/Nightspinner kits

I also already ordered 2 boxes of Banshees to replace those that I sold long ago :D With their new rules and point cost they might actually be worth trying, for the first time ever :) Also thinking of ordering some Shining Spears, which now look like a great value for points, at least on paper.

As a side-note, can't help mentioning that the new codex has put me before another tremendously tough question - what colour scheme should I go for with my new generic (i.e. non-Aspect) units? Problem is, while in one-off friendly games obviously everything works, some high-standard events that I usually attend have recently started to enforce certain colour schemes as part of WYSIWYG requirements. For example, an army of space marines led by Guilliman and using Ultramarine chapter tactics would not be allowed if it's painted in distinct colours of some other "standard" chapter like Raven Guard or White Scars. Similarly, with my army painted in distinct Saim-Hann colours, at certain events I won't be allowed to use anything but Saim-Hann trait. Thankfully, at least Aspects can be painted in their own colours and used with any Craftworld. The most reliable approach would obviously be to come up with some new colour scheme of my own, sufficiently different from any of the five "standard" ones - however, I suck at designing colour schemes  :-\ and have yet to see a single one that I would like more than my favourite Saim-Hann reds. Can't say I'm happy with the fact that my choice of "Craftworld allegiance" is now kind of enforcing a specific narrow army build on me.

@Partninja
Quote
Can you run multiples craftworld traits at once? I'm still waiting for my codex to ship so I'm not sure (I'm dieing to make some lists).
It only requires all units within one detachment to belong to one and the same Craftworld. In this case the detachment becomes a "Craftworld detachment" and benefits from one of the traits.

@faitherun
Quote
Air Detachment - If you can squeze the points to make one an Exarch, I would definitely do that. Re-rolling half of your misses with him will help a good bit. For their Trait, I'd lean towards Alatioc. A -2 to hit on them is nasty, especially vs things with degrading profiles. It will make them all but invincible to Orks, and even IG and Tau will really struggle with them

I thought of an Exarch too - in the new dex it's quite reasonably priced. My initial argument against it was that with than many units I'll be going second most of the time, and so my opponents would easily single-out the Exarch and kill him on their turn 1 anyway. However, with a WK working as a fire magnet, Exarch might indeed be a solid choice.
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2250 Multi-detachment list - Trial by fire!
« Reply #4 on: November 1, 2017, 06:05:25 PM »
Hmmm - that is a rather limited list...

I think your points are a bit off....

By my calculations:
Quote
Detachment: Battalion (Craftworld?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

HQ 1: Farseer Skyrunner (Witchblade, Fortune, Doom) - [135] 95
HQ 2: Maugan Ra - [140]

Troops 1: 5 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Dual avenger shuricat) - [64]
Troops 2: 5 Dire Avengers - [60]
Troops 3: 5 Dire Avengers - [60]

Elites 1: 5 Fire Dragons (Exarch, Dragon's breath flamer) - [120]
 - Wave Serpent (Spirit stone, Shuriken cannon, Twin shuriken cannon) - [144] 139

Fast Attack 1: 7 Warp Spiders - [126]

Heavy Support 1: 5 Dark Reapers - [135]

Detachment: Outrider (Saim-Hann)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

HQ 1: Warlock Skyrunner (Witchblade, Protect/Jinx) - [70] 65

Fast Attack 1: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 2: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 3: Vyper (Shuriken cannon, Starcannon) - [75]

Detachment: Super-heavy Auxiliary (Craftworld?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wraithknight (Titanic ghostglaive&scattershield, 2 x Scatter laser) - [472]

Detachment: Air Wing (Craftworld?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Flyer 1: Crimson Hunter - [160] 175
Flyer 2: Crimson Hunter - [160] 175
Flyer 3: Crimson Hunter - [160] 175

Total: 2249 2244
Command points: 8


My thoughts:

Drop the Spiders and a Flyer. Down grade the warlock to a foot one, and swap his position in the detachments with the Farseer for fluff (Gives you 331 points)

Add the Avatar and two Warlocks as a Supreme Command Detachment. That leaves you with 11 points. Give two ppl singing spears.

Flyers go into your Battalion, which runs as Alatioc. Supreme Command Also takes Alatioc. Speaking of, Avatar take the Phoenix gem, and make him your warlord too, with either Mark of the Incomparable Hunter,or Falcon's swiftness... With Quicken an 18 inch move and then re-roll failed charges could make for a nasty first turn charge....

Honestly any of the warlord traits can be nasty on him....

Save 3 CP for him to try and come back a 2nd time.

Thoughts?
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
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Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 2250 Multi-detachment list - Trial by fire!
« Reply #5 on: November 2, 2017, 08:10:27 AM »
I think your points are a bit off....
I double-checked and am pretty sure my points are spot-on - unless the digital codex that I bought contains errors.

Warlock-skyrunner - I think you might be forgetting to add the cost of twin shuricats.
Farseer Skyrunner might be confused with Autarch Skyrunner - that one indeed comes at 95 pts base.
Crimson Hunters are 160 apiece when kitted out - 175 is the cost of a Crimson Hunter Exarch.

Not sure what could be wrong with a Serpent, but I double-checked - all options I used add up to 144.


Quote
Drop the Spiders and a Flyer. Down grade the warlock to a foot one, and swap his position in the detachments with the Farseer for fluff (Gives you 331 points)

Add the Avatar and two Warlocks as a Supreme Command Detachment. That leaves you with 11 points. Give two ppl singing spears.
That's a really interesting suggestion. What would you suggest to do with warlocks? I'm happy to have one because Protect/Jinx is a fantastic power that is universally useful; I can even justify taking two with two instances of Protect/Jinx so that I can use both a buff and a debuff in the same turn. However, I'm struggling with the third one... There's really nothing to Quicken (Avatar can't be Quickened as he's not Infantry), and other powers don't seem to be worth it.

Quote
Speaking of, Avatar take the Phoenix gem, and make him your warlord too, with either Mark of the Incomparable Hunter,or Falcon's swiftness... With Quicken an 18 inch move and then re-roll failed charges could make for a nasty first turn charge....

Honestly any of the warlord traits can be nasty on him....
Avatar can be nasty. In 8th I always ran him with the generic rulebook trait that gives +1 attack on the charge, but he always felt way too slow to get anywhere - so Falcon's swiftness might indeed be a prime choice for him. It's a pity he can't be Quickened.

I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

 


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