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Author Topic: [1850] - Khorne Daemonkin - Rate my list - Khorne Daemonkin  (Read 208 times)

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Offline Akaitsuki

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[1850] - Khorne Daemonkin - Rate my list - Khorne Daemonkin
« on: March 20, 2017, 03:19:22 PM »
Pretty simple question to answer I want to know how competitive you'd find this list as is (no changes) if you had to face it with your best army list. Rate then comment

Comment on the following points
- Would you win on pure brute strength? rulebook mission objectives? both?
- Would you need to list tailor to win or can your standard list take it down?
- What would you find most challenging to deal with in this list, what are you most concerned about?
- How would you rate yourself as a 40k player on a scale of 1-10 (1 being a Novice brand new to the game, 10 international/global tournament winner (top 8))


Combined Arms Detachment 1

HQ

Bloodthrister of Insensate Rage

Chaos Lord w/Chaos Bike, Lightning Claw, Power Fist, SoC, Skull helm of Khorne

Troops

8x Cultists

8x Cultists

Heavy Support

Defiler

Maulerfiend - Lasher Tendrils

Maulerfiend - Lasher Tendrils


Combined Arms Detachment 2

HQ


Bloodthrister of Insensate Rage

Troops

8x Cultists

8x Cultists

Heavy Support

Soul Grinder

Soul Grinder

Soul Grinder

Offline Wyddr

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Re: [1850] - Khorne Daemonkin - Rate my list - Khorne Daemonkin
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2017, 04:13:03 PM »
Okay, I'm game. Disclaimer: these kinds of conversations quickly degenerate into "if you did this, then I'd do this" games of one-upsmanship which I'm not *terribly* interested in engaging in, but I do think you ask a series of interesting questions. I'll give you my honest shot.

Quote
- Would you win on pure brute strength? rulebook mission objectives? both?

The list in question I'd take is an Imperial Fists Gladius Detachment featuring a pile of Assault Centurions as a kind of mid-field wrecking ball and a lot of Vindicators, Predators, Lascannon Devastators, and enough Grav Cannons to keep somebody honest.

It would very probably blow your army off the board with *relatively* minimal casualties, and that because you don't really have the firepower to contest it. Especially not if I castle up a bit. On objectives it would do pretty well, too, given the number of Objective Secured units I'd have trundling around.

Quote
- Would you need to list tailor to win or can your standard list take it down?

Nope. Not especially, I don't think.

Quote
- What would you find most challenging to deal with in this list, what are you most concerned about?

The primary threat is the Defiler. Followed by the Bloodthirsters. Followed by the Maulerfiends. I don't consider the Soul Grinders nor the Cultists, nor the Chaos Lord to be much of a threat. 

Quote
- How would you rate yourself as a 40k player on a scale of 1-10 (1 being a Novice brand new to the game, 10 international/global tournament winner (top 8))

I'd put myself at about a 7 or so. I don't play in many tournaments anymore, but I've won a few local ones in my day. I've been playing the game since the early 1990s.

About the List
The issue with your list is that you don't have any real shooting to speak of. Three Harvester Cannons and a Defiler at 1850? That's almost nothing. In addition to that, you aren't fielding a lot of dangerous targets, either. The Bloodthirsters are of primary concern, but given that my army's chief assaulty unit stands a good chance of mulching them (Siege Drills going first are very, very nasty; add in doctrines...hmmmm.. .) and the reasonable odds I can strip wounds off them first, I'm not certain they'll last. It would require a bit of clever play on my part to keep them off me for a turn or two, but I'm reasonably confident.

Your primary advantage is mostly that you can use the Khorne Daemonkin special rules to summon more things for me to deal with. Right now you haven't got enough targets to really be problematic, but add, say, a third Bloodthirster in somehow, and then that's trouble.

As a final note: I don't really follow what the Soul Grinders (unupgraded, right?) are there to do. I guess you've got more bodies moving across the field, but I think you'd be much, much better served by 3 groups of bikes, preferably with some kind of special weaponry. Either that or find a way to shell out for the Phlegm Bombardment on all three of the Grinders to give your opponent something to worry about *besides* how to catch your Bloodthirsters off-guard.

Offline Aurics Pride

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Re: [1850] - Khorne Daemonkin - Rate my list - Khorne Daemonkin
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2017, 05:55:52 PM »
Got to be honest I'm not a huge fan of the list. I've fought against a few very good KDK lists that mostly seem to revolve around fast moving combat units, yours just seems to lack any real teeth in my opinion.

Quote
- Would you win on pure brute strength? rulebook mission objectives? both?
I'd probably take my Drop Pod Raven Guard with Skyhammer. For Maelstrom my ObSec Tactical Squads will do a good job of grabbing objectives and I'd certainly think that the Skyhammer and Shadowstrike Kill Team would be able to take the teeth out of your army.

Quote
- Would you need to list tailor to win or can your standard list take it down?
I'd be fairly happy taking it on with my standard more competitive list, I could tailor slightly but it would only be changes of weapons.

Quote
- What would you find most challenging to deal with in this list, what are you most concerned about?
Agreed with Wyddr on this one, Defiler is probably the biggest threat right from the off. If the Bloodthirsters are flying I'd be fairly happy to let them flap around and deal with them when they land, otherwise they'd be early targets for the Devastators.

Quote
- How would you rate yourself as a 40k player on a scale of 1-10 (1 being a Novice brand new to the game, 10 international/global tournament winner (top 8))
I'd say I am probably about a 6 or 7. I don't play a huge amount of competitive games and I do tend to stick fluffy even when building more powerful lists (Like Still using Raven Guard Chapter Tactics for my Skyhammer, most people would use Ultramarines etc).

Personally I wouldn't really find your army too scary, my Daemon army would be crying with the amount of AV13 Walkers but my Raven Guard have the weapons to deal with them pretty easily. The lack of decent objective holding units will really hurt you as well in my opinion. The Cultists will give you easy Bloodtithe points but personally I'd be looking at Hounds instead, fast and harder to kill.
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Offline Cavalier

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Re: [1850] - Khorne Daemonkin - Rate my list - Khorne Daemonkin
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2017, 07:32:36 AM »
Yeah I hate to agree with AP & Wydrr... I hate to shoot a list down, but I wouldn't be intimidated by this list... at the same time I wouldn't take it lightly. I like the double Bloodthirsters + double Maulerfiends... thats a good fast moving block of multi-wound melee madness. But the thing is they are fragile... and will most likely be priority #1 targets.

I remember playing against the Tetrad for the first time.. and the guy had a Bloodthirster to boot and I ignored the Tetrad and went for the Bloodthirster and a single unit of Windriders blasted him down.

My standard list is an Autarch, 2-3 units of Jetbikes, Striking Scorpions, Fire Dragons in a Serpent, Avengers in a Serpent, 2-3 Hornets, Nightwing (double shuriken cannons, double bright lances) a Warp Hunter OR a Wraithknight (not both). I'd feel very confident in my list to take your list apart piecemeal. I usually reserve what I cant hide out of LOS (if I'm going second) so I sort of dodge any turn 1 firepower and then beta strike really hard.

I would definitely say the Soulgrinders are probably my biggest challenge... not because of the firepower they can put out... but really the AV13. But with my Dragons, Nightwing,  Wraithknight or Warp Hunter it'd really just be a matter of time.

 While I find the Defilers to be the most challenging part of the list... its the double bloodthirster/maulerfiend combination I think is the jewel of the list. If you supplemented this core with a mass of Fleshounds and a World Eaters bike brigade I'd REALLY like this list a lot more. For me Khorne armies are all about threat overload... and fearless World Eater bikes, Bloodthirsters, Flesh Hounds, and Maulerfiends are quick, tough, fearless and would be more than my army could handle. Even if you didn't make contact Turn 2 (which I think you could) you'd be dominating the board... I'm sure my whole army would be backed up to the table edge... and by Turn 3 I'd be forced to turbo boost away... and when that happens it usually means I'm not going to be able to regain my footing and get all my guns to bear again. I've found the best counter to the incredible shock+awe shooting armies are fast assault armies. Wraith heavy Necrons are the bane of my Eldar... no reason you cant achieve that with KDK and perhaps World Eaters allies.

As far as how skilled a player I am... I'm like Auric's Pride. I'm probably a 6-7. Better than average, lacking a lot of highly competitive experience but I'm helped out by a strong codex against better opponents.

Anyway hope I wasnt too harsh. I do think there are elements of this list with great potential! Please let us know what you think... I'm working on my own Khorne (World Eaters) army at the moment so I know its WAY more challenging than building an Eldar or Space Marines list. Anyway good luck and let us know what you think!
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Offline Akaitsuki

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Re: [1850] - Khorne Daemonkin - Rate my list - Khorne Daemonkin
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2017, 12:32:23 PM »
Wow great great responses and don't worry about being harsh I prefer honest truth and constructive critism.

I ran some games on Sunday against my usual opponent.

His first list was an imperial guard leaf blower complimented by Roboute Guilliman and some ultramarines. Mission: Big Guns Never Tire

He nearly got tabled. My list was quite different for that first game though I had Be'lakor (invisibility and shrouding make bloodthristers really hard to kill), no grinders or defilers instead replaced with 2 heldrakes.

Then we played a second game vs his Iron Hands Gladius list (mission: the relic) and again he nearly got tabled. I used a very similar list to the one posted here (replace chaos lord and defiler with 2 heldrakes) he cried the whole game about how broken my lists were.

Personally I felt that he stood a chance, first game Guilliman one-shot an invisible bloodthrister by miraculously rolling back to back 6s. But I took him down with the second thrister + maulerfiend. My maulerfiends got immobilized (worst than death, no blood tithe) but really the thristers and belakor did most of the work the parking lot couldn't respond to D-thristers being inside their deployment zone by turn 2 and Jink + Shrouding = 2+ cover save deflected all potential damage.

Second game he had the gladius including flyer wing. The stormtalons + stormraven wrecked one of my bloodthristers right away turn 2. But not before he got to wipe a unit that dropped down via drop pod to claim the relic.

The maulerfiends had a field day killing drop pods left and right until finally they both got immobilized again :(

The soul grinders I bring because many people have problems dealing with AV13 specially in assault and they are the best anti-flyer weapon in KDK more reliable in at least forcing a jink than Heldrakes. Soul Grinder did very well holding down my back field protecting against drop pods raining down and forcing the flyers to jink. That's what the harvester is for.

The cultists in both games I keep in reserve because I want to avoid having them killed too early (I want their bloodtiher but most importantly I want that 50% chance of summoning a prince or bloodthrister if I accumulate enough blood tithe) I never got enough points in either game.

Any how because of the "omg S10 everywhere ur list is so OP" cries I figured id post online my next list and see if others agree with me that the list is strong but not anywhere near broken/op. I'd personally rate it as standard pick up game list.

I have built 'stronger' lists which some of your comments echoed that I haven't used yet but i'll post it next and see what you guys think. I believe it should receive more favorable reviews and more than likely lots of tears from my opponent lol

I'm just glad that everyone here agrees that most players SHOULD be able to deal with something like this without being 'WAAC' type players that have insane levels of tournament experience

Though I do think that there's a bit of underestimating on the playability and options in this particular list in some of the comments, but generally I agree with all of you on 90% of the points made. This gives me great confidence in the level of advice here being thoughtful and logical.


 


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