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Author Topic: Dark Eldar 2000 PTS (Return of the Blinded Blades)  (Read 2204 times)

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Offline Myen'Tal

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Dark Eldar 2000 PTS (Return of the Blinded Blades)
« on: March 10, 2013, 10:44:41 PM »
Just so you know, I do not own the 6th edition rulebook yet, but I will be picking it up around early June when I buy the starter set :). I don’t own any of these models yet, so anything can be subject to change. This is mainly what I’m looking to begin buying when I do start though.

EDIT: Fixed some point totals and made some changes to the list :).

Dark Eldar 2000 PTS

HQ:

Haemonculus: WWP, Liquifier Gun, Venom Blade 100

Haemonculus: WWP, Liquifier Gun, Venom Blade 100

(He’s equipped to deal with enemy characters and his webway portal and Wracks as troops ability seems to be a great boon to me at least. Since the shattershard removes any non-vehicle from play if they fail a toughness test, I can take out a chunk out of a hoard or remove any menacing monstrous creatures (Immune to toughness tests :P) or menacing looking characters. That’s how I interpret it at least, if I’m missing something let me know :D. By the way is a toughness test just a save?)

Elites:

4x Kabalite Trueborn: 4x Blaster 108
Vemon Dedicated Transport: Splinter Cannon, Night Shields 75
4x Kabalite Trueborn: 4x Blaster 108
Vemon Dedicated Transport: Splinter Cannon, Night Shields 75

(Don’t have flicker fields on the Raiders because I’ve seen the point more than once that jink saves does the same thing. I’m guessing so long as they’re moving. I am keeping it on the Ravagers though in case they don’t move for a turn or two.)

(Not too sure about this unit, up close is where they can lay on the hurt, but I’ll probably have to be careful when pulling them up to a target. The blasters should be good at taking cracks on heavy infantry(not sure about vehicles, it’s been a while since I had a rulebook in my hands so I’ve forgotten about how AP works, except that the lower the better) and everything else is there to add weight of fire upon infantry and force more saves. All of the kits are interchangeable, so I can use extra blaster and shard carbine arms from the Scourge kits)

Troops:

10x Wracks: Acothyst, 2x Liquifier Gun 130

Raider Dedicated Transport: Night Shields, Dark Lance 70

(Monster Hunters :D, since they always wound on 4’s and with the Haemonculus, they should be quite a team, though I’m still uncertain as to how squishy those wracks really are. Oh well, tougher than regular eldar at least and with both of their starting pain tokens, they’ll have feel no pain and furious charge.)

10x Wyches: Haywire Grenades, 2x Hydra Gauntlet, Hekatrix, Agoniser 158

20x Kabalite Raiders: 2x Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Splinter Pistol and close combat weapon 210

10x Kabalite Raiders: Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Splinter Pistol and close combat weapon 110

10x Kabalite Warriors: Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Splinter Pistol and close combat weapon 110

(This is the tricky part, I assume their fleet ability will help them take objectives before whoever I’m playing and sit on them while firing on anything too close, unless their sitting in vehicles which will probably beat me to the punch. Still, we can always counter attack and take the offensive and try to force scoring units off of it. What I’m really worried about is enemy artillery or blast weapons, but I do have a plan for that. Perhaps I could mitigate that by bringing them through the WWP)

Fast Attack:
3x Reaver Jetbikes: 1x Blaster 81
3x Reaver Jetbikes: 1x Blaster 81

Heavy Support:

Ravager: 3x Dark Lances, Night Shields, Flicker Fields 125

Ravager: 3x Dark Lances, Night Shields, Flicker Fields 125

(My anti-armor units will bust tanks and such.)

Razorwing Jetfighter: 2x Dark Lance, Splinter Cannon, Flicker Field 165
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« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 02:27:18 PM by MyenTal »
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Dark Eldar 2000 PTS (Return of the Blinded Blades)
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2013, 10:25:24 AM »


Haemonculus: WWP, Shattershard, Venom Blade 105

Haemonculus: WWP, Shattershard, Venom Blade 100

The exact same layout yet two different point costs???  It should be 105 on both of them, or did you mis-write something?


Quote

(He’s equipped to deal with enemy characters and his webway portal and Wracks as troops ability seems to be a great boon to me at least. Since the shattershard removes any non-vehicle from play if they fail a toughness test, I can take out a chunk out of a hoard or remove any menacing monstrous creatures (Immune to toughness tests :P) or menacing looking characters. That’s how I interpret it at least, if I’m missing something let me know :D. By the way is a toughness test just a save?)

Exactly how toughness tests work can be found in the 6th ed rule book under Characteristics tests (if my memory serves me correctly as I don't have the rule book in front of me atm)


Quote
Elites:

4x Kabalite Trueborn: 4x Blaster 108
Vemon Dedicated Transport: Splinter Cannon, Night Shields 75
4x Kabalite Trueborn: 4x Blaster 108
Vemon Dedicated Transport: Splinter Cannon, Night Shields 75


A fairily good min-max unit. Don't expect to win many friends with this one... I would advise that you possibily add the hamey in to these units to give him a boost up the board, especially if you are dropping WWPs


Quote

9x Wracks: Acothyst, Scissor hand, 1x Liquifier Gun 125

Raider Dedicated Transport: Night Shields, Dark Lance 70

(Monster Hunters :D, since they always wound on 4’s and with the Haemonculus, they should be quite a team, though I’m still uncertain as to how squishy those wracks really are. Oh well, tougher than regular eldar at least and with both of their starting pain tokens, they’ll have feel no pain and furious charge.)

A good starting unit, and can take on MCs fairly well, although you may find that the lack of AP really crippling.


Quote
9x Wyches: Haywire Grenades, Hydra Gauntlet 118

Raider Dedicated Transport: Night Shields, Dark Lance 70


I would argue against the dedicated transport here. Should they get shot down, most of them will die from it blowing up. Since you are taking WWP, then they can try and use that to help get up the board. Just be careful that you are not shot to pieces the moment you come out.

Quote

15x Kabalite Raiders: Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Splinter Pistol and close combat weapon 155

15x Kabalite Raiders: Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Splinter Pistol and close combat weapon 155

10x Kabalite Warriors: Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Splinter Pistol and close combat weapon 110

DE are not meant to be foot sloggers. If we are, then it should be through a WWP. You have two of them that you can drop down, first one should be about 12 inches up the board and second about 36 inches up on turn 2. This gives you great tactical flexibility.

Why not take 5 guys from one of the 15 man squads, add it to the other 15 man squad, and then give them another SC?

Quote

Fast Attack:
10x Hellions: Helliarch, Agoniser 185 (These guys are a screening/tar pit unit, aimed to keep things from tying up my warrior squads or at least one of them and block line of sight some of the time. I was wondering whether I should take this or a beast master unit, though I obviously can’t screen too well with those and they’ll have to slog it across the board or WWP. 

I tend to prefer Reavers to hellions. Two squads of three Reavers with a blaster will come out to 162 pts, can come out of the WWP, and make wonderful harrasment units.

Quote
Heavy Support:

Ravager: 3x Dark Lances, Night Shields, Flicker Fields 125

Ravager: 3x Dark Lances, Night Shields, Flicker Fields 125

(My anti-armor units will bust tanks and such.)

Razorwing Jetfighter: 2x Dark Lance, Splinter Cannon, Flicker Field, 4x Necrotoxin Missles 185
1992


The Necrotoxin Missles are not needed. Stick with the Monoscythe ones. Necrotoxin are only going to wound MCs better, and then the AP is the same, so you are really paying 20pts for something you already have.


What exactly were you thinking of bringing through the WWP? Both your Hameys have it, but while there were some good candidates for coming through it, nothing seemed to be certain. The restriction of not being able to assault the turn you come through (as per the faq) really hurts the WWP, as does the restriction on vehicles...

Just some thoughts to chew on.
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Offline Plastikente

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Re: Dark Eldar 2000 PTS (Return of the Blinded Blades)
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2013, 01:55:01 PM »
I gave up on WWP when 6th came.  I find that I just don't get enough benefit now that you can't charge from reserve.  I'd be interested to see how you fare with the Warriors though.

Shattershards are good, but you can't rely on them too much.  A Space Marine character has a 2/3 chance of surviving it.

Offline Myen'Tal

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Re: Dark Eldar 2000 PTS (Return of the Blinded Blades)
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2013, 04:00:53 PM »

Quote
The exact same layout yet two different point costs???  It should be 105 on both of them, or did you mis-write something?

Whoops, meant Liquifier Gun on the second one, changed it, sorry about that.

Quote
Exactly how toughness tests work can be found in the 6th ed rule book under Characteristics tests (if my memory serves me correctly as I don't have the rule book in front of me atm)

Okay, will read when I have it, I thought anything with toughness six or higher were immune to toughness test, I'll find out when I get the rule book I guess.

Quote
A fairily good min-max unit. Don't expect to win many friends with this one... I would advise that you possibily add the hamey in to these units to give him a boost up the board, especially if you are dropping WWPs

Yeah, I haven't considered that, I will do that then.

Quote
A good starting unit, and can take on MCs fairly well, although you may find that the lack of AP really crippling.

I suppose I'll just have to experiment with them then  ;D, what would you take in their place though in case they didn't work out?

Quote
I would argue against the dedicated transport here. Should they get shot down, most of them will die from it blowing up. Since you are taking WWP, then they can try and use that to help get up the board. Just be careful that you are not shot to pieces the moment you come out.

Hmmm... but can you start with that many units in reserve? I thought it was to a maximum of half your army? If you can't answer those questions because of forum rules, don't worry I'll figure it out :). But doesn't placing this many units on the table leave my other units a little exposed? The Night Shields do help

Quote
DE are not meant to be foot sloggers. If we are, then it should be through a WWP. You have two of them that you can drop down, first one should be about 12 inches up the board and second about 36 inches up on turn 2. This gives you great tactical flexibility.

Why not take 5 guys from one of the 15 man squads, add it to the other 15 man squad, and then give them another SC?

This is what I initially planned on doing with the Warriors, I could move those five guys into one of the fifteen man squads for another Splinter Cannon. I'll keep the distances in mind when I'm deploying the WWPs though, useful information to know, thanks  :).

Also, I know you cannot charge directly out of a WWP, but I looked over the FAQ and didn't see anything about shooting the turn you come out of a WWP. Can you do it ??? ?

Quote
I tend to prefer Reavers to hellions. Two squads of three Reavers with a blaster will come out to 162 pts, can come out of the WWP, and make wonderful harrasment units.

I was planning on getting some with the battle force boxes anyway, so it wouldn't hurt to try two squads of these out first, I'll make the changes.

Quote
The Necrotoxin Missles are not needed. Stick with the Monoscythe ones. Necrotoxin are only going to wound MCs better, and then the AP is the same, so you are really paying 20pts for something you already have.

Alright, I'll change that as well.

Quote
What exactly were you thinking of bringing through the WWP? Both your Hameys have it, but while there were some good candidates for coming through it, nothing seemed to be certain. The restriction of not being able to assault the turn you come through (as per the faq) really hurts the WWP, as does the restriction on vehicles...

Just some thoughts to chew on.

The WWPs were mainly for the Warriors to come through, though I could add Wyches and bikes, everything else I planned on bringing onto the board. I'm not aware of any vehicle restrictions, never been brought to my attention at least  ???. I wanted to keep the Wracks and Wyches on the board to apply pressure while they focused on my Venoms and Trueborn or Ravagers. If they aimed to bring down my close combat units, then that's two WWPs moving up the board with a lot less fire being brought upon them.

I gave up on WWP when 6th came.  I find that I just don't get enough benefit now that you can't charge from reserve.  I'd be interested to see how you fare with the Warriors though.

Shattershards are good, but you can't rely on them too much.  A Space Marine character has a 2/3 chance of surviving it.

Yeah, I see your point, if it doesn't work out, I'll just have to adjust my list then and go on from there.

Anything you two would recommend over the Shattershard?
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Dark Eldar 2000 PTS (Return of the Blinded Blades)
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 09:35:10 PM »
I too gave up on WWP armies when 6th came out. That is not to say it can not work, but against my regular opponent, my win loss ratio is typically an even 5-5 split. When I ran the WWP armies, I would get about a 3-7 split. Maybe I just needed more practice with it...

On to your questions!


Quote
The exact same layout yet two different point costs???  It should be 105 on both of them, or did you mis-write something?

Whoops, meant Liquifier Gun on the second one, changed it, sorry about that.

Anything you two would recommend over the Shattershard?

I actually prefer the liquifier guns. They are not 1 shot weapons, and with a good roll for AP they can really mess things up for just about anyone.
Quote
A good starting unit, and can take on MCs fairly well, although you may find that the lack of AP really crippling.

I suppose I'll just have to experiment with them then  ;D, what would you take in their place though in case they didn't work out?

Lets do some basic math here. Your Wrack squad should be getting about 20 attacks on the charge. For the sake of the argument, lets have them charge a Talos, as that is a fairly standard MC profile. about 10 attacks should hit, and about 5 will wound, with only 1-3 actually managing to get through the armor. Now the Talos returns attacks (and we will assume 5 attacks here) killing about 2 Wracks. From this point on, you are in a battle of attrition, which the Talos will most likely win simply through being stronger and having a better armor save.

There are a few options available, one of which is to have a second squad of Wracks, and have them both attack. Of course the above is a vacuum approach, and so firing a Ravager at the MC and knocking off so wounds, or hitting it with multiple units etc... Just don't expect that one unit to do the job by itself.

In fact this is true of almost all of the DE army.

Quote
I would argue against the dedicated transport here. Should they get shot down, most of them will die from it blowing up. Since you are taking WWP, then they can try and use that to help get up the board. Just be careful that you are not shot to pieces the moment you come out.

Hmmm... but can you start with that many units in reserve? I thought it was to a maximum of half your army? If you can't answer those questions because of forum rules, don't worry I'll figure it out :). But doesn't placing this many units on the table leave my other units a little exposed? The Night Shields do help

Normally I run my wyches in a raider. However, with WWP, it may work to have them jump out of it. The risk of having the raider blow up is huge for wyches, and if they can deploy out of the WWP into cover, they have a greater chance at surviving.

Also, I know you cannot charge directly out of a WWP, but I looked over the FAQ and didn't see anything about shooting the turn you come out of a WWP. Can you do it ??? ?

Yes

Quote
What exactly were you thinking of bringing through the WWP? Both your Hameys have it, but while there were some good candidates for coming through it, nothing seemed to be certain. The restriction of not being able to assault the turn you come through (as per the faq) really hurts the WWP, as does the restriction on vehicles...

Just some thoughts to chew on.

The WWPs were mainly for the Warriors to come through, though I could add Wyches and bikes, everything else I planned on bringing onto the board. I'm not aware of any vehicle restrictions, never been brought to my attention at least  ???. I wanted to keep the Wracks and Wyches on the board to apply pressure while they focused on my Venoms and Trueborn or Ravagers. If they aimed to bring down my close combat units, then that's two WWPs moving up the board with a lot less fire being brought upon them.

Take a look at the last sentence in the description of the WWP on page 62 of the DE dex. Did not used to be that way in the old codex, and I cried when they changed it...



Now I see you have adjusted your list...

Quote
Troops:

10x Wracks: Acothyst, Scissor hand, 1x Liquifier Gun 135

If you are going to get the 10 man team (which I do like) then get 2 liquifiers. It's twice the fun!

Quote
20x Kabalite Raiders: Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Splinter Pistol and close combat weapon 210

Based on your points here, I think you meant Splinter Cannon x2   ;)

As for the Sybarite, other then the LD bonus, he is only good for CC, which you want to try and avoid with these guys. They are supposed to shoot, and they can't do that locked in close combat. Same with the 10 man squads...

Other than those few pointers, the rest looks ok to me. Try it out and see what works and what doesn't work for you. If you are new to DE, expect to lose your first 15 - 20 games. They will take a lot of work to get. I lost my first 30 some games before drawing a win. Don't give up though and keep on trying things.
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Offline Myen'Tal

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Re: Dark Eldar 2000 PTS (Return of the Blinded Blades)
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 02:32:11 PM »
Alright fixed that missing splinter cannon, thanks for the tips and the help, I am pretty new to Dark Eldar so I too anticipate some losses. I will try this list regardless and see what happens with it, hopefully it will go well  ;D.
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Offline Plastikente

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Re: Dark Eldar 2000 PTS (Return of the Blinded Blades)
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2013, 03:24:34 PM »
I'm with Faitherun - Liquifiers instead of Shattershards.  Sure, they won't ID characters, but you can fire them off every turn (and as overwatch if charged) and 50% of the time they will melt straight through power armour - in those cases they are better than a shard against single-wound MEQ.

 


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