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Offline Tyric

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Eldar vs Marines
« on: August 4, 2012, 04:34:20 PM »
Hi ,

My name is Michael and i am new to eldar and 40k
My friend tought this would be a cool game so were learning it so far so good.
He's playing space marines and i am playing eldar.

So i am looking a round a bit here to find some hints to play.

i already got the starter set and some rangers and a farseer.

so enough for the background !

my question is if i can get some tactics to kick some space marine ass.

Mike out.
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #1 on: August 4, 2012, 04:49:33 PM »
Welcome to the forum.

While most Eldar players will be familiar with the contents of the Battle Force, it would be a good idea to post your army list, and let us know roughly what your opponent is going to field (assuming you know), as this would make it easier to help you.

The general advice against Marines is to employ mass high strength fire power.  The high toughness and armour save of Space Marines means that they are very resilient to most basic weaponry, so weapons like Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannons and Warp Spider Death Spinners are your best bets, as the more wounds you inflict, the greater the probability that your opponent will fail more of those saves.

Other units with more basic weaponry, such as Dire Avengers, can still be effective, but you need to combine their fire power with other units, or ensure that they benefit from psychic powers, such as Doom, in order to bolster their killing power against Marines.

Rangers have received some bonuses in sixth edition which make them potentially more effective against Marines, particularly when it comes to sniping squad leaders.

Three things to be wary of:

1. Avoid trying to shoot Marine units piecemeal.  Concentrate your attack in one, or at the most two, places, in order to punch through the Marine army's battle line.

2. Marines are versatile.  They don't look much of a threat in an assault, but they are to Eldar ranged units, especially Guardians and Rangers, owing to their strength and durability.  It's generally best to avoid close combat with Eldar scoring units, save for Dire Avengers, but even they have to be configured correctly to be remotely useful in an assault against Marines.

3. Flamers are lethal to Eldar units, especially Guardians and Rangers.  Keep well out of the way of these, and try to get rid of these units/models from a safe distance if your opponent is going to be fielding any.

I hope that these general guidelines are of some help.  For more specific advice, more information from you is going to be required.
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Offline Tyric

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #2 on: August 4, 2012, 04:56:00 PM »
Wel thank you for the nice reply first of all.

Ive got some boxes and i will make a list then , thanks

Greetings mike
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Offline Buttman

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #3 on: August 4, 2012, 09:59:18 PM »
Irisado said it well,

Focus on units until they are dead, eldar are stronger as a whole than the sum of their parts. So combining a shooty squad with guide for example is much stronger. Eldar have the capability to be much more mobile this can help you avoid fire until you need to move into position to take objectives. never engage marines in a fair fight outnumber them and attack their weak areas flanking their army with strong and fast units is a good idea. oh and eldrad is great so is fortune. If you give a list of units you like im sure we can help you figure out their usefulness

Offline Aoitora

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #4 on: August 5, 2012, 10:22:23 AM »
Hey Tyric, welcome not only to 40kOnline and Eldar but to the wargaming hobby in general. By the way do you have the Codex yet?

Generally most people in the wargaming community are nice, friendly people. In my 6 or so years of playing I have only met one utter douche bag (compare this to online PVP based games where every second person makes themselves into an egocentric arse). So I thought I'd introduce you to some of the more active/big named forum members.

You've already met Irisado. She's a walking encyclopaedia of Eldar background. You'll often see the term "fluff" used, this word means background/cannon. If you've got any questions about Eldar fluff or what they were like in previous editions of the game she can be very helpful.

Whilst I've never spoken to the following gent directly via PM, Lazarus seems to me to be one of the more serious gamers and into tournament play his knowledge/skills are quite sound IMO.

This forum is quite good as it has a very active painting, conversion and rule question sub forums. You'll probably have a fair few rules questions not only to begin with but odd things can occur you don't know how to resolve later on. Feel free to ask any questions there or if you're shy PM a user named Hymirl. This guy IS the rulebook, I swear.

I don't know if you're aware but people often record their games and post them on youtube there are some really good ones out there too. One of my favourites to watch is from a guy on this forum named NightMoor (EldarCorsair - YouTube), he has a fully painted army, the videos are easy to follow and he posts new battles once or twice a week.

These people might be helpful to you but don't let this small list limit you, the Eldar section of these forums (can't comment on the rest as I only play Eldar exclusively) is a real community I'm often getting great ideas or tips from other users here.

Now I've done some introductions I'll mention the hobby. Whilst other people are giving you general tips for playing Eldar I thought I'd broaden your horizons about the hobby in general. I'm going to assume it was either the looks or the background that piqued your interest in the Eldar (and IMO the Eldar are the most interesting/diverse and plain sexy of all the armies not just in 40k but in any gaming system). The three big aspects are painting, fluff and the actual game itself. Everyone gets something different out of all of these, personally I love all three but you may hate painting and fluff, and you know what? That's perfectly fine too it's your game as much as it is mine. These are some things I wished people introduced me to when I first started playing.

When I first started painting the models turned out terrible and I've progressed to the point where I think my army looks pretty good, so don't feel down if at first your army doesn't look as good as models on display in shops etc.
The following website is FANTASTIC for inspiration CoolMiniOrNot - The Internet's largest gallery of Painted Miniatures and also google images also helps. If you've got a question on how some of the effects are achieved show the guys in the painting section of these forums and they can help you out.

If youre interested in the background Games Workshop has a subsidiary company called Black Library. From what I've read the books range from ok to quite good (obviously you won't be reading a timeless classics but sci fi war stories).
The Black Library

The biggest obstacle with the hobby I find is the price and buying from Games Workshop directly is probably the worst way to go about things. Ebay is great for finding things for cheap (also rare items if you get into collecting miniatures later on). Buying from online retailers is also a great way to do things. Depending on which country you live in, head over to the general 40k section of these forums and ask for some good/credible shops.

I'm not sure what Black Libraries prices are like throughout the rest of the world, I live in Australia and for me it is cheaper to buy from The Book Depository in the UK. Free shipping worldwide and at least half the price of what they ask for here in Games Workshops.

Free shipping worldwide on all books from The Book Depository

Hope you found something useful out of all this and weren't deterred by the walls of text. Best of luck.

Offline Tyric

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #5 on: August 8, 2012, 02:02:33 PM »
Hi all ,

THE wall of text did not bother me at all thx !
thanks for al the feedback people.

So i got me a codex and the following arming.

1 Farseer
3 Warlocks
5 Rangers
5 Dire Avengers
14 Guardians and 1 weapon platform
4 Warp spiders + `Exarch
1 Eldar shinning spear squad (3 bikes)
5 Swooping Hawks
5 Fire dragons + 1 Exarch
1 Warwalker
1 Wave serpent
1 Fire Prisim

This is at my disposal for now.

I like rangers a lot i was thinking of 2squads and something heavy infront and a warwalker for small wars of about 500 / 1000

First thing me and my mate are gonna play are probly some infrantry matches of 500 points.

Greetings Mike
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #6 on: August 8, 2012, 02:08:34 PM »
My suggestion would be to write out the full army list which you intend to use (see this thread for guidance about how to do this).  Others can then make suggestions for improvement, using the models in your collection as reference to that which you could change.
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Offline Tyric

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #7 on: August 8, 2012, 02:44:12 PM »
So here is my idea so far

HQ
Farseer with  doom , guide and runes of witnes 110 points

Elite
-

Troops
13 guardians with 1 weapon platform and a warlock 159 points
5 Rangers 95 points

Fast attack
5 warpspiders with a exarch with surprise assault 132 points

Heavy support
-
Dedicated transport
-

Total of 496 points if i am correct.

Hope i posted it okee if not do tell what i am doing wrong ;)

Greetings mike
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Offline Nemo vas Varya

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #8 on: August 8, 2012, 06:31:55 PM »
If you glue that farseer to the hips of the Guardians, you could be looking at a startlingly effective firebase at 500 points. You're going to be killing marines with those path finders and spiders though. Not much else I could see being done at 500 points. I have never done Eldar that low, and as a guard player, I just drop 2 Russes, two vets, and a CCS because I don't like having friends :-p
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Offline magenb

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #9 on: August 8, 2012, 08:33:11 PM »
Best thing I can suggest is to have a read through this post For those Starting out with Eldar (being revised in preparation for sixth

While it is still being updated to 6th, most of it still rings true.

Other Tips:
Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders tend to give better results at 7 man squad if you don't have the points for 10.
The Fire Dragon Exarch is almost redundant now, so you may want to tinker with dropping him.
War walkers with Scatter lasers are awesome, pop a farseer with guide next to them :)
Generally our exarchs turn our units from being meh into killing machines, watch where you place them in the unit, as a single round of shooting can cripple the unit.



500 point infantry matches - against Marines this is a tough ask. Marines are stupidly cheap for what you get compared to Eldar. I say this because Eldar are so specialised it is hard to fit the supporting units around them at so low points, so do not be discouraged if you have trouble. Eldar start comming into their own around 750 point games :)

Offline Unleash Mayhem

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #10 on: August 8, 2012, 09:49:57 PM »
I wouldn't say the exarch is redundant now, precision hits with a firepike with crack shot sound pretty awesome to me, or a flamer, especially with wall of death.

Offline magenb

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #11 on: August 8, 2012, 11:13:10 PM »
I wouldn't say the exarch is redundant now, precision hits with a firepike with crack shot sound pretty awesome to me, or a flamer, especially with wall of death.

For less points you get a larger squad, more chances to take out a tank or cause a wound..
On overwatch the extra man compared to flamer are rather similar against power armour


Offline Unleash Mayhem

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #12 on: August 9, 2012, 06:17:17 AM »
Not at all, actually the heavy flamer is going to do better against MEQ than an extra guy on overwatch (well 2 since the "exarch" would have a weapon too). And against anything except MEQ and TEQ it will do better. However this is eldar vs marines, and the firepike is still a fine choice with crackshot.

Offline TheDoctor.

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 01:30:45 AM »
Welcome to 40k, and specifically Eldar! Eldar are a hard force to get the hang of, particularly in 6th with such an old codex. Don't get discouraged. I can count on one hand the number of victories I got my first year of playing back during 4th edition (but I didn't use the internet to help me out).

Much of what the above posters have said is true, however, some of the other tricks I have used:

-If you can't focus fire a squad to death, use lots of rangers+doom to kill special/heavy weapons. A tactical squad is not as scary when it is just 7-8 dudes with bolters.

-Extra guardians in a squad are generally redundent, unless you have nothing better to spend the points on

Offline Nemo vas Varya

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 01:26:45 PM »
Welcome to 40k, and specifically Eldar! Eldar are a hard force to get the hang of, particularly in 6th with such an old codex. Don't get discouraged. I can count on one hand the number of victories I got my first year of playing back during 4th edition (but I didn't use the internet to help me out).

Much of what the above posters have said is true, however, some of the other tricks I have used:

-If you can't focus fire a squad to death, use lots of rangers+doom to kill special/heavy weapons. A tactical squad is not as scary when it is just 7-8 dudes with bolters.

-Extra guardians in a squad are generally redundent, unless you have nothing better to spend the points on

This is a good point, my Eldar list, now played twice, my Guardians have never fired a shot except that special weapon.
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Offline eldradstarbane

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2012, 04:08:39 AM »
You should ad some wraith guards with a spirit seer
they can take on terminators and other Hewie infantry like daemons
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 07:42:39 AM by eldradstarbane »
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Offline Arquarian

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2012, 05:59:55 AM »
Wraithguard are good but are a lot of points. At this level they will be unlikely be able to earn their points back.

Unless you're taken a shed load of guardians your really only taking them (offinsively) for the platform. The extra man, as has been stated is redundant. 

War walkers are awesome for the ammount of firepower they put out. Against marines you want to force as many saves on them as possible. Eldar have access to a fantastic ammount of S6 weapons and relatively cheaply too.

Another of the Eldars main bonuses is speed. Warp spiders are good anti infantry and are manopuvreable enough to glace the rear armour of a tank to death.

Rangers are good Pathfinders are better  ;) find the points and pay for the ungrade.

 
You don't currently have any close combat units. Your best bet is then to kit the Dire Avengers to fill a holding role hereThey are not dedicated cc units but they won't fall over as quickly as our other guys, Plus with any luck overwatching with bladestorm should put down a marine or two before they get stuck in.

Look forward to seeing you around the forum and to see this army flourish! We're all here for hints and tips so any questions....


Arq.

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2012, 01:43:03 PM »
I wouldn't say the exarch is redundant now, precision hits with a firepike with crack shot sound pretty awesome to me, or a flamer, especially with wall of death.

For less points you get a larger squad, more chances to take out a tank or cause a wound..
On overwatch the extra man compared to flamer are rather similar against power armour

Firedragon exarch with flamer on the quad gun.
I really like this squad sitting in the firebase area, dealing with deep striking anythings and fliers in their own movement phase.
Until he kills the first flier, no one even cares that you have fire dragons on the board.

Offline orkexterminator

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #18 on: September 8, 2012, 03:04:39 PM »
No mentions of howling banshees yet, don't they work against space marines?

Offline Irisado

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Re: Eldar vs Marines
« Reply #19 on: September 8, 2012, 03:22:29 PM »
[mod]This thread has left the front page, and your contribution doesn't warrant raising it back up the boards. If you want to discuss the effectiveness of Howling Banshees against Marines, please start a new thread, preferably comprising more than one line. This thread is, however, locked for thread necromancy.[/mod]
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