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Author Topic: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies  (Read 3027 times)

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Offline Atnas

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A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« on: August 24, 2012, 05:28:08 AM »
Hey there fellas! I'm an Eldar with very little experience from 40K. I've got a love for fast attack, Swooping Hawks in particular. The new allies option has got me pretty excited because I can finally include Scourges into my armylist, and they are everything Swooping Hawks are not (good, essentially!). So while that isn't a problem, the mandatory parts of what I have to ally in first is!

I've got no idea what a good HQ + Troops option would be! While I have the Dark Eldar book, I am not familiar with it. Would an Archon with some weapon and Caballite Warriors be good enough? Perhaps just try be as cheap about it as possible so I can get my damn Scourges in, or ought I to take the chance and bulk up on some good Dark Eldar troops?

Offline Arquarian

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2012, 05:32:43 AM »
I'm not massively experienced with Dark Eldar but I recently used 10 Kabalite warriors with splinter cannon in a raider with splinter racks to devestating effect.

All those poison hits shread monsterous creatures!

Offline Atnas

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 06:09:58 AM »
I just noticed there's a freaking cool special character called the Baron and he makes Hellions troops. That'd go well with the fast attack part of my army, but are Hellions any good? They don't seem very good at fighting, more about shooting. Is that a correct assesment?

Offline Buttman

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2012, 06:13:45 AM »
Baron with a big squad of hellions is a pretty decent unit send the after anything not.in power armour. If you want dark eldar just for scourges. Use a haemonculus and a squad of wracks as troops. Relatively durable troops with a cheap versatile hq.

Offline Arquarian

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2012, 06:40:23 AM »
I would have thought a tooled up Achon CC monster would be a good move, albeit expensive...

Eldar suffer from the lack of an alpha CC unless you go all out and bring the A-Tar...

Offline Koval, Master Verispex

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2012, 06:50:41 AM »
I would have thought a tooled up Achon CC monster would be a good move, albeit expensive...

Eldar suffer from the lack of an alpha CC unless you go all out and bring the A-Tar...
If close-combat monster, then Agoniser Succubus. Cheap, cheerful, and you get to bring along a unit of Wyches to fill out that Troops choice.

Offline Ludo

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2012, 08:35:35 AM »
If you're going for cheap I'd say a squad of wyches with a hexatrix with a venom blade for your troops led by a succubus with a venom blade or an agonizer. Put some aether sails on their raider and watch them whiz around the battlefield.

You could also try a haemi with a liquifier gun to give the wyches a pain token then leave the haemonculus in the raider.
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Offline Atnas

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2012, 02:57:25 PM »
I don't think I'd like to include a Ravager, or any type of transport- keeping the costs down if I can help it (both pointswise and $$$ wise!). What would be a cost effective, solid HQ - troops option? The Baron is relatively cheap but Hellions are not, especially if they need to be taken in a big unit.

Can a Succubus with Wyches be fielded on foot you think, Koval?

Offline Koval, Master Verispex

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2012, 03:34:42 PM »
I don't think I'd like to include a Ravager, or any type of transport- keeping the costs down if I can help it (both pointswise and $$$ wise!). What would be a cost effective, solid HQ - troops option? The Baron is relatively cheap but Hellions are not, especially if they need to be taken in a big unit.

Can a Succubus with Wyches be fielded on foot you think, Koval?
No, because their armour save is absolutely dire and they'd quite literally get shot to pieces on the approach. They really do need a Raider. So do Kabalite Warriors, if I'm honest, though they at least have the option of hiding behind some solid cover and shooting things.

The good news is that you don't have to buy an actual Succubus model, seeing as you can just make one using a plastic Wych. This should help you loads seeing as you'd have to fit her in the unit somehow anyway.

Offline Joekle

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 03:57:26 PM »
Yeah without a raider your options are limited
Wracks become troops if you take the Haemy and with their toughness and some deft movement about cover they are probs more durable than wyches on foot so I would go with them for points and money cheapness. You can convert one of the wracks into a Haemy you see.
So to summarize Haemy with Liquifier gun and powersword or venom blade, and 5 wracks with another liquifier gun or just 3 wracks for ultra cheap points

Oh i forgot to mention pain tokens! The wracks start with one and so does the haemy so they both will have feel no pain and furious charge! I think your idea of Wraithguard as a screen is great and the 4+ cover save should be enough when combined with feel no pain!
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 06:46:22 PM by Joekle »

Offline Atnas

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 04:10:28 PM »
I was thinking of using the 10 Wraithguard in my list as mobile cover for them, would that be feasible? Or is that 4+ not enough? Kind of like cheaper Harlequins, as a counter-charge unit if the Wraithguard get in trouble. Altough I suppose Harlequins may use the Veil of Shadows to stay hidden...

Is the Haemoncolus Hex Rifle any good? My list includes a bunch of Pathfinders and a Farseer with Doom (Doom synergizes well with 4+ to wound, which is why I want a lot of Scourges aswell!) and I figured I might be able to do some good with it?

Really appreciating all of the replies!

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2012, 04:16:58 PM »
No, the hexrifle is not any good.

The best options to take for a haemy are a liquefier gun and a venom blade.  They are relatively easy to kill so anything else is generally a waste of money.  I have run a 10 man warrior squad with a dark lance behind an aegis defense line with a quad gun.  You could run them from a ruin if you want to keep the costs lower but they will still die relatively easily.  Especially if assaulted. If you want to make them even cheaper then throw on a splinter cannon instead of a DL.

I usually run my wyches as a 7 man squad with haywires and a hekatrix with an agonizer in a raider with aether sails.  It's only a couple of hundred points and is a great unit.  Even with a succubus it will come in under three hundred.
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Offline Galef

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2012, 09:48:15 PM »
While I will agree that a Liquifier is the best shooting option for a Haemi, if you have pathfinders, joining him to them with a Hexrilfe could be fun.  Remember, snipe rifles have precision shot, so there is a chance that you could allocate his shot to important models in enemy units.

Also if you plan on getting (or rather making) an Aegis defense line, Wracks make a good option for this.

If you decide to go cheaper, I would buy a set of Wracks, convert 1 to be a Haemi and do the above.
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Offline Atnas

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2012, 08:55:14 AM »
Reread the rules for the Hexrifle. I thought you'd roll the test if you managed to wound, but I see now that it needs to be an unsaved wound. That doesn't sound too likely with AP4 since monsters and characters have good saves. With so much poison in the Dark Eldar allies, I'm not sure monsters will be a problem either way.

I like the idea of having a small-medium sized Succubus/Wyches unit to perform counter-charges!

Offline Arquarian

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2012, 08:22:05 AM »
A 10 man wraithwall is going to be expensive. They're also not very manoeuvrable and can be tied up in cc pretty easily....


Unless you're playing over 2000 I'd think of a different plan.


Personally I'm liking the idea of the haemi and the wracks. I still think you're going to need a transport though as foot slogging these will get shot up. However shooting at them is better than taking it on the chin of your paper corsairs!

Offline Atnas

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2012, 07:25:23 PM »
I'll be playing 1850, and a Wraithwall is at the moment obligatory :) I love Wraith units!

I'm really starting to like the sound of the Baron, after reading the new FAQs and all. He's cheap, and he brings stealth- something my Wraithguard will really appreciate! They make use of a Warlocks Conceal and Farseers Fortune to get a 5+ cover save that they reroll, and with Stealth that save would improve, greatly increasing their resilience towards anything that penetrates 3+ armor.

And he makes you deploy first, something I don't mind at all, since that means you are likely to go first aswell!

I'd not use Hellions, but I might just use a Venom with 5 troops in it and perhaps Nightshields? Or the Raider (or was it Ravager) for an additional lance weapon.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 07:27:30 PM by Atnas »

Offline nawari

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2012, 03:07:46 AM »
how about the duke? he is really good and buffs your wyches or warriors. also he is fairly durable in combat with a shadowfield and ignoring armour saves on lucky rolls!

the cool news with that idea is that you only need one box of warriors and convert one into the duke. now you have a pretty good shooting unit that wounds on a 3+ :)
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Offline Atnas

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Re: A good HQ + Troop option for DE allies
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2012, 05:50:54 AM »
Here is my armylist for reference: http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=223818.0

The Duke is a bit too expensive I think, and he would probably not synergize too well with the rest of my army! You'd need more combat drug oriented troops to make him worthwhile. Like I mention, the Baron is what interests me because if he joins the Wraithguard I'll have a rerollable 4+ cover save making them very, VERY tough.

As you can see, the idea of the army is to have a very durable center on the field (Pathfinders in cover, WG and WL advancing on the opponent) with deep striking/outflanking units to arrive turn 2 reliably and mop up a flank with focused fire, trying to collapse upon the opponent and to counter-act the immobility of the footslogging WG/WL.

What I'd LOVE to have is 1-2 Raiders with 5-10 troops in them with night shields to hang back at max distance so they can't be shot at as easily, synergizing well with my idea that you'll be forced to shoot the Wraith units or nothing at all. That way they could add more anti-vehicle fire and then later on in the game unload the troops to take objectives.

 


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