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Offline Rx8Speed

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750 real fun list new codex
« on: April 26, 2015, 09:09:37 PM »
 aspect host
3 dark reapers incl exarch w/ starshots
3 dark reapers incl exarch w/ starshots
4 dark reapers incl exarch w/ starshots


 aspect host
3 dark reapers incl exarch w/ starshots
3 dark reapers incl exarch w/ starshots
4 dark reapers incl exarch w/ starshots

specs:
battle forged
26 starshot missiles per turn
or
46 starswarm missiles per turn
all bs5
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 09:10:52 PM by Rx8Speed »

Offline Nythrulas

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2015, 08:27:31 PM »
I think "fun" depends on what side of the table you're on.

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 04:58:57 AM »
I think "fun" depends on what side of the table you're on.
Yeah i agree with this i think if he wanted to be even more annoying, only 2 wraithknight would do the job, maybe you should try 1 wraithknight with one reaper aspect host to have even more fun :D
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Offline Nythrulas

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 12:38:14 PM »
You can take the aspect host list by itself because it has its own datasheet.  You can't take the one wraithknight formation because it doesn't have its own datasheet apart from the craftworld host.

That said, I really don't think he needs to.  An army of reapers that hit on 2+ or better is pretty ridiculous already.

Offline Rx8Speed

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 12:43:53 PM »
I think "fun" depends on what side of the table you're on.

loool just to clear the air the title was meant to be sarcastic :P

and i can't believe gw has made this a legal army lol. I wonder who it was that said "forget about troops and hq letd just make an army of all heavy support! and while we're at it let them hit on a 2+"

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2015, 05:11:01 PM »
This isn't that new of a concept though.  Back in 3rd edition you have the Craftworld codex that allowed a Biel-Tan list to be created where all of the aspect warriors were troops.  Granted, Reapers at that point only had their Starswarm shots, but an all reaper list was possible.  It just wasn't that effective.

While this idea seems cute and idiotic all at the same time, I would put that down to the point value the list is built for.  At 750pts, there really is not a whole lot that the enemy can field, but there are counters to this.  A Deathwing list, for example, would have 13 Terminators on your line on turn one and you do not have enough shooting or high AP weapons to wipe them off the table before they grab a hold of you and tear the list apart.  I have a feeling that the rate of return you are going to get from the list will rapidly diminish the higher up in points you go (while keeping to the all reaper theme).
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Offline Nythrulas

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2015, 05:17:24 PM »
Yeah, an army of deepstriking 2+ saves would squish it, but that's about it. Even then, that's 46 missiles hitting on 2's.

13 guys can fail a 2+ save pretty fast with that level of fire power shooting at them...

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2015, 05:45:01 PM »
If they all have line of sight, yes that is a lot of shooting.  Although, if we are talking about statistical averages, with those 46 starswarm shots, that is only 4 dead Terminators.  I just used Deathwing as an example.

My point is that this army was tailored to be ridiculous and, while it will devastate certain lists, there are going to ones out there that it falls completely flat against.  I have a feeling those lists are going to be more numerous than people think.
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Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2015, 06:38:17 PM »
Well then they have to be a solution to this, maybe take an avenger shrine rather than the second aspect formation and make those 6s count ^^
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Offline Fenris

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2015, 07:07:17 PM »
72 Tau Firewarriors (about 650p)and a deep striking commander with 2 plasma rifles (about 100p) will still win against the Dark Reapers on planet bowling ball. If there is cover all the better for Tau.
Let's math-hammer it:
Turn 1
Reapers kills 32 fire warriors.
6 Reapers die in return.
Turn 2
Reapers kills 23 warriors.
2 + 4 (including 2 exarches)from the commander.
Turn 3
Reapers kills commander and 7 warriors.
Warriors shoot rapid fire and kills 2 reapers.
Turn 4
Tau get's wiped. (6 Reapers remain including 4 exarches 238p)

If Tau starts:
Turn 1
Warriors run into range
Reapers kills 32 warriors.
Turn 2
Warriors kills 6 reapers, commander kills another 4 (including 2 exarches)
Reapers kill commander and 11 warriors (or 17 warriors)
Turn 3
Warriors shoot rapid fire and does 8 unsaved wounds, counting it as 2 exarches and 4 regular reapers.
Reapers kill 7 warriors.
Turn 4
Eldar get's wiped. (22 fire warriors remain 198p)

Looks like my initial assumption was wrong, this would be a very close draw, slightly in favor of the reapers.
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Offline Nythrulas

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2015, 07:50:49 PM »
These also assume that no Tau ever failed a morale check... which is dubious.

(It also assumes the Reapers never failed, but given their bonuses, that's much more unlikely)

I think this moves it even further in the Reapers' favor.

Offline Rx8Speed

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2015, 08:24:07 PM »
13 termies would never make it while losing that many a turn. Remember that reapers can move and shoot. Also if the termies deepstruck the army would be tabled turn 1. Since the reapers can move and shoot means the termies will get into combat with maybe 2-3 units before the end of the game, maybe. 1

The reaper's starshots are pinning so factor that into the mathhammer against tau because you would throw at least one at each unit to force a check.

Also as someone said the all reapers list gets worse as points go up, thats why i built it at 750.

Offline magenb

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2015, 10:22:08 PM »
Can you actively swap out the missile types in battle? The wording in the codex is a bit vague there.


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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2015, 11:30:10 PM »
13 termies would never make it while losing that many a turn. Remember that reapers can move and shoot. Also if the termies deepstruck the army would be tabled turn 1. Since the reapers can move and shoot means the termies will get into combat with maybe 2-3 units before the end of the game, maybe.

Also as someone said the all reapers list gets worse as points go up, thats why i built it at 750.
*sigh* You are going to make me mathhammer this, aren't you?

At 750pts you get Belial and 2 squads of 6 Terminators with a split firing Plasma cannon.  Terminators are automatically deep striking turn one, so regardless of whether or not the Reapers have first turn, the Terminators are shooting first.

Deathwing Turn 1
20 bolters
= 13.33 hits + twin link
= 17.77 hits
= 11.85 wounds
= 3.95 dead

2 Plasma cannon shots
= 3 hits
= 2.5 wounds
= 1.67 dead (assuming you are in coverwith the twin linking, figured that scattering a bit to clip two models can average out to 3 hits)

Total dead Reapers = 5.62, round to 6 dead

Reapers Turn 1
Starswarm missiles give you the best numbers of killing terminators:
36 shots
= 30 hit
= 20 wound
= 3.33 failed saves, round to 3

I say failed saves because there is a good possibility that wounds will be allocated to Belial first, and he will always take two before using LOS to pass them off.  At best for you, you kill 3 models, at worst you kill one.

Deathwing Turn 2
Now the kicker here is how the army would be deployed.  If you have squads close to each other at all there is a good possibility that you will lose three on the second turn.  Belial's squad will have deep struck and not scattered within charge range of as many units as he can reach.  If possible, he splits off from the squad to chase a unit down, the remainder of the unit shoots at a smaller unit while split firing a bolter to charge a closer unit.

I can go into greater detail, but at this point I am tired.  But do you really think the Reapers can out attrition an army with a superior save that shoots almost as well as the reapers do?  Not to mention the fact that the Terminators can and will charge into combat and will win those fights.  You are already down two units at the start of the second turn, and there is a good chance you will be down another three units by the end of the 2nd turn.

Turn up your nose at Terminators, but until you have been on the receiving end of the Deathwing, you are always going to underestimate their capabilities.  This is coming from a Deathwing player who regularly fields 26 terminators at 1850.  A large number of terminators for a certain points value on your door step turn one are always hard to deal with.
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Offline mattthebandit

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2015, 07:52:00 AM »
20 bolters on 13 guys which I'd say 2 of which has the plasma you're talking about? Also no models on the board turn 1 is an auto win for eldar just sayin.

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2015, 01:35:04 PM »
20 bolters on 13 guys which I'd say 2 of which has the plasma you're talking about? Also no models on the board turn 1 is an auto win for eldar just sayin.

he nice one there indeed >< that some nice things to say for your first post here :D  welcome
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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2015, 01:42:06 PM »
I had just copy and pasted some quick notes I was doing.  20 bolters = bolter shots.  Otherwise the math would have worked out to 26 hits instead of 13.

Also no models on the board turn 1 is an auto win for eldar just sayin.
No models on the board at the end of a game turn is an auto win.  If you go back to my original point you will notice I specifically mentioned Deathwing, who utilize the Deathwing Assault rule when they deep strike.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline Rx8Speed

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2015, 05:38:38 PM »
correct me if im wrong but if the eldar go first then at least one termi ator squad needs to be deployed on the table? Because at the end of the eldar turn the marines have no one on the board and so they win?

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2015, 05:47:22 PM »
In the worst case could there commander be alone on the table? Yes if he get shot down the spacemarine lose but if he survives then the spacemarine player should win.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: 750 real fun list new codex
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2015, 05:50:46 PM »
Guys, the special rule means they'll be deployed by the end of the first turn. The no deployed models rule doesn't apply here.
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