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Offline Lomendil

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2003, 11:35:26 AM »


After life evidence are these; Ghosts, poltergeist's, the "tunnel" when you are dying, feel of something is watching you when you are alone.

These are not incontrovertible evidence though. If it were not for pre-existing belief systems, all these occurences would be interpreted differently.

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And also I personally haved a creeping experience when I was young. When I one time slep in my bed, I felt that I rose up in it. Everything was sligth blue hue and everything was quiet and something was totaly different in the athomshpere. I was just walking (floating mostly) out of my room, I felt that something was after me, so I suddenly wake up.

Probably sleep-paralysis. The same thing is thought to be behind Incubi, alien abduction cases and other 'supernatural' experiences. I've had it myself, and it is very creepy - but I realized that it was my mind jerking me around. It's a lot like a lucid dream.


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darn I do not know rigth english word but it is happening when your soul leaves your body and you can go back.

Astral Projection. :)

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And also there are scientic proofs that there is some strange energy form excinting in houses wich are haunted or harassed by poltergeist (there is actually science group wich investigate these). So pasically noboddy does not know what after-life looks like, but it excit's none the less.

No, you can't say that with any degree of certainty, on the evidence available. While there are a few things that could be seen as suggesting that there is an afterlife, there is certainly nothing concrete.

But of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, to quote Kage2020 (and thus Sherlock Holmes, I believe. ;))

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I personally believe the buddha version of the "after-life". That the people will recarnate in next life after they die, so that tehir soul will grow in wisdom by experiencing different aspect's and styles of life. Until they are wise enough to move into different dimension where they learn more until they reach another level and move other until they reach destination wich is unknown.

I'd say that there is more evidence for re-incarnation than there is for other kinds of afterlife. This is because of some of the uncannily accurate descriptions of former lives that people have made. Not the hypnotic regression rubbish - pah, that's just quackery. No, there's a little girl in India I saw on TV, she was able to go to a village hundreds of miles away and recognize all the people and streets, including her 'former' family. Course, it could have been a hoax.

So, it's still very inconclusive.

Offline Archon Kazzaroth

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2003, 11:41:14 AM »
And also there is one intresting theory that soul or life in itself, is energy. In the movie "Fire starter" there was boy wich was able to drain energy and was able to drain life out of people.

So if we but theory into a god, then god is not "he" nor "she" it is simply a energy wich is spreaded around and everything is part of it (animals, bird, rocks etc) and I think Final fantasy 7 theory of life is rather intresting.....
« Last Edit: June 29, 2003, 11:45:08 AM by Archon Kazzaroth »
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Offline True Believer

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Re:Do you believe in god
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2003, 11:43:26 AM »
I thorouhly and thoroughly believe that nothing is certain.

Quoting myself... well makes you realize anything's possible.  :)
To continue, as I realize I lost myself a bit, what I mean when I say that nothing is certain, is not that we cannot prove the existence of god, but that the existence of god may be proven in three seconds from now, or that existence may go unproven forever... who knows/cares?

BTW: please don't read my post as one gigantic flame against christianity because of the last lines. And keep in mind that christianity does find it's roots with slaves. (for purpose of the praising/condemning bit)


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Offline Archon Kazzaroth

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2003, 11:44:33 AM »
It can be sleep-paralyze or it is other, noboddy knows real answer and we must then trust simply the answers what are excitting already ;).

But one thing can certain that there are many non answered questions and each answer brings hndred more questions ::).
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Offline True Believer

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Re:Do you believe in god
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2003, 11:46:57 AM »
It can be sleep-paralyze or it is other, noboddy knows real answer and we must then trust simply the answers what are excitting already ;).

But one thing can certain that there are many non answered questions and each answer brings hndred more questions ::).

Exactly. So let us just stop asking questions, k?


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Offline Archon Kazzaroth

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Re:Do you believe in god
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2003, 11:48:56 AM »
I thorouhly and thoroughly believe that nothing is certain.

Quoting myself... well makes you realize anything's possible.  :)
To continue, as I realize I lost myself a bit, what I mean when I say that nothing is certain, is not that we cannot prove the existence of god, but that the existence of god may be proven in three seconds from now, or that existence may go unproven forever... who knows/cares?

BTW: please don't read my post as one gigantic flame against christianity because of the last lines. And keep in mind that christianity does find it's roots with slaves. (for purpose of the praising/condemning bit)

Also christianity is famous for killing dozen of people in "holy" crusades for nothing more reason that having a different religion. And even some cases they have killed for gold or for land rigths but they said they done it for god (Does Jeanne D'arc sound familiar?)
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Offline Lomendil

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2003, 11:51:30 AM »
Essentially, nothing is ever completely provable - not even this statement. ;) 8)

Offline True Believer

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Re:Do you believe in god
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2003, 11:52:33 AM »
I thorouhly and thoroughly believe that nothing is certain.

Quoting myself... well makes you realize anything's possible.  :)
To continue, as I realize I lost myself a bit, what I mean when I say that nothing is certain, is not that we cannot prove the existence of god, but that the existence of god may be proven in three seconds from now, or that existence may go unproven forever... who knows/cares?

BTW: please don't read my post as one gigantic flame against christianity because of the last lines. And keep in mind that christianity does find it's roots with slaves. (for purpose of the praising/condemning bit)

Also christianity is famous for killing dozen of people in "holy" crusades for nothing more reason that having a different religion. And even some cases they have killed for gold or for land rigths but they said they done it for god (Does Jeanne D'arc sound familiar?)

True, but totally of the point, Kazzaroth. Take no offence, but I shall distance myself from what you have said, because I was merely going for philosophical point of view, and I have no desire to get involved with your moral point of view, correct or not.
No offence, once again.


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Offline Archon Kazzaroth

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2003, 11:59:04 AM »
No offence taken :). I just maked out that religions are basically only other form of power, like politics and in middle ages it was TRULY used in politic manner. The religion only used their own invented laws (tabus) wich control people who "afraid" that they are pointed out as heretics and being punished by their "sinfull" actions.

So basically if there is god, it can only be ignored. Because we have rigth of free will (wich is ONLY possible rigth) and take responsebillity of our own actions because noboddy in the end will not do for ourselves. Not your parents, not your community nor god or any astral being.
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Offline CD

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2003, 12:02:58 PM »
Well I don't believe in God or an afterlife or any of that stuff.

The image of God that is portrayed by some religions, an all-knowing diety of everlasting mercy the transcends space and time, just seems too unrealistic to me. People call coincidences 'interventions', and claim that everything positive you do in the world is driven by "god".

Plus, there's the whole thing about the creation. One of us, "god" or life , had to be created first (and if life was created first, there wouldn't really be a need for a "god"). People seem to think that it's reasonable for "god" to pop out of nothingness and create us from the goodness of its heart, but it's completely blasphemous to tihnk that if "god" could appear from nothingness, so could single celled organisms that evolved into more advanced creatures based on their surroundings.

I've yet to see any form of intervention by "god" that is not a coincidence or just some sort of rarity. There's no proof of his "acts", the bible has been edited hundreds of times over, and a King once re-wrote it to suit his image, effectivelly bending the religion to become a new one that wasn't really based on all the facts.

As for the afterlife, some people think that their body will perish but their mind or "spirit" will live on in the afterlife. What do you think your mind depends on for thought? Your body. Physical harm in the physical world can damage your brain and mind, so are you saying that if someone hit their head in the physical world and gained a mental disability, they would carry that on into the eternal afterlife? I'd think not. All of your memories, your thoughts, your entire personality is based on unique chemicals and chemical reactions taking place in your brain. When you die and these functions cease, your memories, your personality, everything that is you fades away into nothingness. It's not as if your "spirit" "escapes your body and sails to the heavens" or any crap like that, you die, you decompose, and your thoughts and emotions cease.

All that religion does is fill people with false hope, not that that's a bad thing. If they believe it, at least they'll try to do good things while they're alive so that they can think that they'll head off to some utopia once they die.

Sorry to say, even if there was a utopia, one of two things would happen: Either the "criteria" for getting in would be loose and more people would get in, creating the same problems here in the physical realm such as prejudice and crap like that, and if the "criteria" was very strict, no one would be allowed in.

That is, unless there was a personal utopia, in which case you'd eventually go insane due to the concept of eternity. No one can stay sane for all of time, you'd eventually do everything there is to do, and once that time came, you'd probably go crazy from boredom...
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Ok I'm done now.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2003, 12:03:54 PM by Creeping Death »

Offline Archon Khiraq(danceman)

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2003, 12:56:01 PM »
i agree to most of what you´re saing Creeping Death.

my view on the godess is she is all and i will return to her... wither away to become earth and unite with her...
i dont believe my soul will surive.

i dont want to die yet it is nothing i can do to stop it so why give it more thoughts that it will come to me one day.

many countries have fought in the name of god, if they all were gods men it seem odd to me... god should be able to unite them, yes?

i believe in YOU... do what you will but when you hurt someone its when you betray your god...

if god do exist i hope the gods men of old(1300-1600? cant remember off hand) who killed over 9 million witches will burn in hell for thier ignorance and hatred.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2003, 05:27:16 PM by danceman »
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Offline Bludd spilla

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2003, 01:53:14 PM »
God?  Well, I believe there is a power that created the universe, whether by it's destruction, or creation I am unsure.  If that is God then yes.

I do not however buy into the whole organized religion, heaven or hell, as I think there is no more than one way to follow the same outline, yet we have several, and each one belives they are right.  

Say Yes to God, No to Religion.
what gives us the right to feel with remorse for a god they created
A god for the poor, for bathory we're bleeding out the devil hides in angelic shrouds
Blasphemy, as speaking out we've asked for it, for more of the same
Sad scheme, of ghettos created by the power elite, for our minds and souls burning
No longer for freedom invoked just more of the same.

Offline True Believer

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2003, 01:58:13 PM »
Essentially, nothing is ever completely provable - not even this statement. ;) 8)
Oh my 'god'! you are so very right!

Quoth Sokrates: I know but one thing, namely that I know nothing.

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Offline Kai-Thelon

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2003, 02:34:40 PM »
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nope, i believe in the godess... she is spirit and all nature hence the pentagram, one pointy side for each element.

Though in Witchcraft there are Two dieties, the God and Goddess, The Sun and moon, Birth and Death.
Four Elements, Fire-Air-Earth-Water, four Corners, East, South, West, North, Five pointed star as outlined by our bodies Head, Two arms, Two legs.  The annointed triangle forms the focus and draw of power from the Lord and Lady.

Your soul is the energy of your living self and the only part of you to go beyond this existence, to begin anew.

Yes, I believe in The God and Goddess, Yet they do not ask my obeyance, as it is given that what we do will return to us, If harm then harm if good then good we choose and our energies decide.  Draw upon the Power of the Lovers, Feel the power flow through you and use it for the good of all.
There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Offline the grim squeaker

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2003, 03:07:56 PM »
well i believe if i bring great hounor to my family name,i'll go to heaven.

and the way i look at it even if there is no heaven ive still done go for my family

go bushido ;D (thats the warrior code)
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Offline Secret

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2003, 03:22:52 PM »
A experiment was carried out not so long ago. A series of cards with an assortment of lines and colours was shown to people some with patterns in them some without. Anyone who was unreligious spotted the ones with patterns and the ones without. But anyone with a deep religious belief saw patterns in many of the cards where there was none. Although no conclusion was taken from this I believe religion was made for these people because they believe that everything has a purpose and is organised or connected. I believe that a lot of things just happen because that's just the way things are and that there is no 'god' causing it to happen. My friends and I believe that religion is just a form of control made by some clever ass guy who saw the need in humanity to serve a greater being and hold him ultimately responsible.
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Offline HarlequinSolitaire

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2003, 03:27:24 PM »
No, religion, in my belief, is the human race's way of thinking that they matter. That all their effort is going to some 'greater cause'. That, in truth, their minds cannot handle the prospect of infinity, that all their efforts are futile.
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Offline Secret

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2003, 03:38:07 PM »
No, religion, in my belief, is the human race's way of thinking that they matter. That all their effort is going to some 'greater cause'. That, in truth, their minds cannot handle the prospect of infinity, that all their efforts are futile.

Good point. Most people hate to think that what they do now doesn't matter and never did but will anyone here be remebered in 200 years? Life is short. Don't waste it on a sketchy system of rules set by some divine being live it your own way (But please, within the law)
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Offline HarlequinSolitaire

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2003, 03:40:55 PM »
(But please, within the law)
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But then again, how much more does the life of a man who gets all he wants get passed on than that of a criminal in a concrete cube  for all his life?
'An eye for an eye, and soon the world is blind'

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Offline Secret

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2003, 03:44:13 PM »
I'm not sure what you're asking. I put that on the end because otherwise some pedantic f*** would start bawling about how come I believe it's ok to murder people and that. Everyone knows what's right and wrong inside themselves and for those who don't the law is there as some sort of helping hand to point you in the right direction.
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