News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica  (Read 5815 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline haunt

  • Aspect Warrior | I Won the Eldar Army List Competition, and All I Got Was This Title!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Country: us
  • Play and have fun.
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angel, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau
Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« on: December 28, 2008, 11:06:09 AM »
I wrote this in http://www.40kforums.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=57084

Greetings everyone,

Welcome to Eldar Ghost Warrior Army Tactica. It seems Iyanden-like armies are growing and many needs a small help on compositions and deployments. We won't be talking about special-ed characters, but basic compositions ONLY, if you have thoughts on using special characters. Keep your comments away from this topic.

Let's begin:

1. We all know the strengths of the Farseer and Warlocks for this army. These HQ and add-on unit are golden for this army mount them on jetbikes or best is walk them with the army. You're Farseer should mainly have for powers are Fortune and Guide. An occational Mind War isn't that bad to have, but the FIRST two are a MUST! Their wargear should mainly be Spirit Stone and/or Rune of Warding, no need to take singing spears and you need not worry (read my sig.)

2. Warlock add-on units are ok to have, if you have points for it. Other than that concentrate on your Wraithbone Wall.

3. Wraithguards x10 + Spiritseer (power is unneccessary, but handle with care) are TROOPS.

4. If you want these guys to last long and hard, make sure the front rank wraithguards have Conceal and Fortune them on the eventuallity of facing lots Plasma and Lascannon weaponries  and reroll those that would probably die even better if in cover 4+ rather than 5+.

5. The second line won't need the conceal, but remember to stick with Guide #3. I find Destructor is probably the nasty thing to bring.

6. Movement should be on your turns are nominally, Move 6 inches and Run d6 inches. Your opponent will try to find a way to scramble against this, but experience ones will stick it out and see how their shooting phase goes, but they all break morale seeing a wraithbone wall.

7. Shooting phase, probably one of the few armies that can shoot at every unit it faces and make it break, unless they stick around then they all disappear into the warp. Do use good judgement on this, for you have such a short range and probably one of the deadliest too, alongside Fire Dragon volley of Fusion Guns.

8. Assault?   ? If you can assault a unit with wraithguard, it is fine. S5 T6 3+ sv (and Fortuned?) will be great at anytime, also do think about it, since you have no power weapons just bulk and armor save. Lightning Claws, Power Weapons, especially Powerfist, Thunderhammers and any big strength that hits becomes your ever fearful no retreat rolls. 

9. Most people don't see wraithguards out in the battlefield, let alone 20+ of these wraithbones. Let us talk about your Wraithlords. There are several configurations that you can use for weaponries other than the 2 shuriken catapults or flamers or 1 of each but the all important are the following: BL/EML (anti-armour), 1 weap/Wraithsword (reroll to hit), TL- weaponries (Why?), ShurCan/ScatLas (1 R24 and 1 R36?) and StarCan/ScatLas (my favourite and is my default.)

10. Wraithlords are viable targets and most folks are scared of these due to its S10 T8, if you get an opportunity to smack a Necron Monolith or Land Raider more than likely it might be gone. You should have at least 2 of these, so they concentrate their thoughts of it and maybe not on your short range unit that are moving as fast as they could.

11. Armies to be aware about Tyranids (lots of rending capability and it just don't stop in one unit), Power Fist, Thunder Hammer and the likes, those nasty Daemon 4+ to wound against anything and no save against it.

12. This is just a guide for those wanting a try of the Iyanden Army and you should think, if you like a slow army or a faster pace army. Don't use it all the time, just bring it and play especially if people want to see an effective fluff army there is.

In my experience in playing this army, one shouldn't go down lower than 1500 pts. 1000 pts is short on saying rape me please. it also becomes totally dependant on your character to hold off CC and hope to win.

Hordies?? I killed a 32 gaunt strong squad w/ 7 wraithguards and 1 spiritseer. But orks, on the other hand its the reason I stated and said something about mind war, for those Nobz or Sgt w/ PK, or PF.

In 1000pts game, it is a highly nasty army in the right hands. Other than that I wouldn't let someone new play an Iyanden type army. They'd lose interest in playing Eldar.

3-5 man squads of Wraithguards are known as suicide squads. Thank god none of you have played against me, since you would call me crazy. Especially, when I launch a serpent behind the enemy line and stay there for 1 turn for you to hit that Fortuned serpent with everything you think to hit it with and survives. 

In any case, 3 is nice as a Bodyguard unit for a farseer and you won't need to buy warlocks for them, but 3-5 wraith squads are alright, but it takes up valuable Elite slots. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend it unless you're playing a HUGE game [I remember 4th ed days, mmmm. Wraithguards x60 (3 units take up Troops and 3 from Elites), Wraithlords x6 (3 from Troops and 3 from Heavy, ahhh the glory days.]

Probably, deployment on the field is essential for people. Unless, you have first turn always deploy them hidden or if you're willing and have conceal (watch out for LRR inferno cannons up close) then do what I do against Tau. To the front and ready to move as quickly as possble and piss them off, coz of the T6 and 3+ fortune-saves or 5+ fortune-covers. Tau feels smaller (S5 v T6) when they fire at these guys like IG firing at Marines (S3 v T4).

Here's a question for all of you, MEQ = Marine Equivalent, what is a wraith army called?

We're known as EGA = Eldar Ghost Army.

Anywho, new advise for those who would probably fight CCW armies, instead of your Destructor second line take Enhance. It makes a huge difference and many don't see it coming till they wonder why are you hitting on 3+ v their WS4, and the I5 starts off nicely for you to kill your enemies. Just DO NOT USE this tactic against Nids or you'll suffer badly.

As a Ghost Army Tactician, no MC is viable against Wraithcannons. Not that our 12 inch really scares those MC, it is the SX AP2 that trully scares all within range of Wraithguards. Yes, we can kill multi wound models, but it really doesn't matter since the armies that carries MC in their armies are Nids, usually if it has or within range of Synapse. It is immune to insta-kill. Chaos Daemons are also immune to insta-kill. The only MCs that are not immune are Eldar and Dark Eldar, kinda wierd eh?

So to sum it up, folks rarely trouble themselves against Wraithguards unless they see them in HUGE numbers. When I say HUGE numbers, I mean number that can literally block off paths to get behind your line. A unit of 3-10 wraithguards poses as a standing or walking shield for other units, while several units of 5-10 wraithguards are considered as a walking wall.

If you have questions, not regarding this please just PM me and more than likely I'll respond.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 09:03:27 PM by haunt »
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline Starrakatt

  • Infinity Circuit
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2702
  • Country: ca
  • Bitter Vet
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 09:37:29 AM »
Nice thread, it would be more usefull to post it in there though, as going back and forth through forums aren't necessarily the best way to get comments on something. I suggest you copy-paste/modify your original post. ;)

Now, what I have to add on what you wrote is that you should add points on what you actually need as support units for a Wraith themed force to be fully efficient:

- You do need anti-horde unit(s), either for dealing with actual hordes or just get through low saves (Termies) with firepower saturation.
- What of Close Combat? Sure Wraithlords and Wraithguard can take on many units in the game but against specialised units or MEQ you do need some heavy duty CC specialists - What worked well for you in that regard?
- I did used Guide as a second power and with WG is works great, but I feel that you must take the support units in your army into account when selecting these, not just the Wraith units (Doom is quite excellent when coupled with Avengers, Guardians, Rangers and CC support).

Also, I like these so-called 'WG Suicide Squads', use one from time to time in a Serpent, along with a Power Weapon/Fusion Gun Autarch, Yriel or Jain Zar - Disembark, kill something then go and wreak havoc!
Just for mathhammer sake: 5 WG w/ Jain Zar (any PL would do) with her (his) low save is about as resilient as a full Wraithguard unit vs firepower, not factoring Cover saves and Fortune, as the PL can absorb ap3 wounds that would get past a WG save and that up to 3 wounds.
Also: For shooting purpose (with Jain Zar again, still compared to a full 10 WG unit), the same squad have about the same firepower output against MEQ and hordes alike due to the PL's very high BS and Triksele's low AP, and that is not factoring the Warlock (Destructor?).
And such a unit actually fares better than our full Troop unit with a PL/Yriel CC prowesses.

Of course you have to tone these numbers down when you use Yriel or a regular Autarch, but you pay points for what you get.

I would really like to know your own opinion on what work best for you as supporting units for your Wraith themed core and see some more developments on your tactica.

   Keep it up,

   Starky ;)

Join the POC: Craftworld Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors

Quote from: Farceseer Siranaul
Yes you are being dense.

Offline haunt

  • Aspect Warrior | I Won the Eldar Army List Competition, and All I Got Was This Title!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Country: us
  • Play and have fun.
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angel, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 10:29:54 AM »
I stated in the original post to not add actual special characters, so it teaches the new Ghost Warrior Army n00bs. How to use it effectively and then they can go to other technique and strategies. None many of the new Ghost Warrior Army players really know how to use it functionally. I even posted 2 battle reports in the general forum of that site.
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline Ragewind

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
  • Spoooooon!
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2008, 02:10:04 AM »
I stated in the original post to not add actual special characters, so it teaches the new Ghost Warrior Army n00bs. How to use it effectively and then they can go to other technique and strategies. None many of the new Ghost Warrior Army players really know how to use it functionally. I even posted 2 battle reports in the general forum of that site.

I see what you are saying but I don't believe it, we have no less than 10ish Special Characters in our army for a reason. For a Army like Iyaden you need the close killing power of Yirel (and fluffy too) or even the Avatar (not really a IC). You can't expect to just take a support HQ like a Farseer and expect it to back up a army comp made out of units that need help murding things in CC. Even the n00bs as you put it should look at the Eldar codex as a whole and see what can help them achieve their goal.

Remember while the WraithLord is all cool and all, it only has 2 attacks in CC, if a squad of LD 10 warriors get into CC with it that Wriathlord is now stuck there for the rest of the game.


The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 02:12:40 AM by Ragewind »
The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

Offline haunt

  • Aspect Warrior | I Won the Eldar Army List Competition, and All I Got Was This Title!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Country: us
  • Play and have fun.
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angel, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2008, 09:57:18 AM »
We all know so much about eldar armies, but did you started out with a Ghost Warrior Army? I surely did not, and I do like the other differing armies of eldar. Many are fun to use and get much fun. You might want to read my post in the POC: Iyanden to know my list.
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline haunt

  • Aspect Warrior | I Won the Eldar Army List Competition, and All I Got Was This Title!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Country: us
  • Play and have fun.
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angel, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 07:55:56 PM »
I stated in the original post to not add actual special characters, so it teaches the new Ghost Warrior Army n00bs. How to use it effectively and then they can go to other technique and strategies. None many of the new Ghost Warrior Army players really know how to use it functionally. I even posted 2 battle reports in the general forum of that site.

I see what you are saying but I don't believe it, we have no less than 10ish Special Characters in our army for a reason. For a Army like Iyaden you need the close killing power of Yirel (and fluffy too) or even the Avatar (not really a IC). You can't expect to just take a support HQ like a Farseer and expect it to back up a army comp made out of units that need help murding things in CC. Even the n00bs as you put it should look at the Eldar codex as a whole and see what can help them achieve their goal.

Remember while the WraithLord is all cool and all, it only has 2 attacks in CC, if a squad of LD 10 warriors get into CC with it that Wriathlord is now stuck there for the rest of the game.


The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole.

I recommend for you to try this list then:

(2) Farseer [95] Fortune

Wraithguard x10 [396] Spiritseer, Conceal
Wraithguard x10 [396] Spiritseer, Enhance

Dark Reaper x5 [217] Exarch, Tempest, Crack Shot
Wraithlord [140] Starcannon, Scatter Laser, Flamer x2
Support Battery x3 [180] Warlock, Enhance, D-Cannon x3
« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 10:41:12 AM by haunt »
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline Ragewind

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
  • Spoooooon!
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2008, 12:21:28 AM »
Sorry man but I fell in love with Ulthwe from the get go, your list isnt "bad" but its certinaly doesn't go with the way I play. As a example things I never include are..

Farseer with just Fortune
Tempest Launcher
Conceal in squad 1
Embolden in squad 2 (they are fearless after all)
StarCannon (in 5th)
Embolden on all 3 Support Platforms, I see why you have it but it still shouldn't matter. If something seriously looks at one of the platforms they will be dead anyway.

IMHO, D-Cannons are cool and all but in that list you would be better served with say, 2 Fire Prisims instead of the WraithLord and D-Cannons. Even without upgrades they still serve the same purpose and do it better. However since we are playing Iyaden I would keep the Lord and remove the D-Cannons and Reapers, not only would this do the same but it would be a bit more effective. To each his own however.

I just noticed it but I assume you use the Tempest Launcher in conjunction with the D-Cannons due to the indirect fire?> The Exarch is still better served with a EML than a Tempest Launcher I believe.

Something you might consider since it IS a Iyaden themed army you might be better served by taking a squad of Warlocks for some great versatility.
The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

Offline Ragewind

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
  • Spoooooon!
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2008, 12:34:47 AM »
If I had to put something together for Iyaden at 1850 I would use...

Yirel (155)
Farseer w/ Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Mind War, Fortune, Singing Spear (140)

Wraithguard x10 w/ Seer (381)
Wraithguard x10 w/ Seer (381)

Wraithlord w/ Sword + Scatter Laser and Dual Flamers (120)
WraithLord w/ Sword + Scatter Laser and Dual Flamers (120)
Fire Prisim w/ Holo-Field + Stone (160)

Right here its at 1500...now onto 1850

Fire Dragons x8 (128)
Warlocks x3 w/ Singing Spears + Embolden + Destructor (96)
Wave Serpent (TL Shurican)+ Stone and Star Engine (125)

= 1849

In this 1850 List we have Moderate to High anti-horde, Moderate to High anti-Tank, and Moderate to High Close Combat ability, Moderate anti-T5+. Not to mention the Anti-Everything that is the Wraith Cannons. Add on the pure "Pimp" that is Yirel's Dual Iyanden Flags! :P and you have yourself a winner!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 12:42:02 AM by Ragewind »
The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

Offline pacoquerak

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2008, 03:37:29 AM »
I might be wrong, but I think I would rather have 40 storm guardians with enhance than more than one unit of wraithguard.
And an Avatar. I will keep those D cannons thank you. I will give my farseer fortune and doom, making my storm guardian tar pits become swarm busters ready to battle orks! each unit will have 4 flamers, plus 2 wraithlords with just swords and flamers will keep your wraithbone wall protected awsomely from it's biggest threat, swarms. To top it off, I want a 10 man squad of harlies with shadowseer and kisses hiding behind all of this either to protect the d cannons or counter charge anything in my wraith bone. Finally, I want something to be flexible as all get out, be able to bust tanks and fast things and eat heavy weapon squads and we have swooping hawks.
Eldar tyranid style

Offline haunt

  • Aspect Warrior | I Won the Eldar Army List Competition, and All I Got Was This Title!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Country: us
  • Play and have fun.
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angel, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2008, 10:39:39 AM »
If I had to put something together for Iyaden at 1850 I would use...

Yirel (155)
Farseer w/ Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Mind War, Fortune, Singing Spear (140)
So, you're fully going with special characters then, my entire Tactica was just to learn, hot to use it first and foremost. Besides. haveing Yriel is good, but your farseer is... well undesired. IMHO, why take the farseer you got when you can take Eldrad and call him by a different name. Iyanden is wraith heavy, but it doesn't mean we won't take the most powerful psycker in the codex. So, again please read the very top part of my tactica and hope you understand what is stated there.

Wraithguard x10 w/ Seer (381)
Wraithguard x10 w/ Seer (381)

Wraithlord w/ Sword + Scatter Laser and Dual Flamers (120)
Wraithlord w/ Sword + Scatter Laser and Dual Flamers (120)
If you took the sword means you're going in close and hunting big critters. Nothing wrong with your pick, but do just shoot at it till its dead.

Fire Prisim w/ Holo-Field + Stone (160)

Right here its at 1500...now onto 1850

Fire Dragons x8 (128)
Warlocks x3 w/ Singing Spears + Embolden + Destructor (96)
Wave Serpent (TL Shurican)+ Stone and Star Engine (125)
So, you'll take singing spears over witchblades when you have destructor??? I would think you would remain with a witchblade for extra attack. IF you are point shaving remove your Star Engines. Go down to basic 5 dragons and try to give your warlocks jetbikes to move around, for they are a wasted amount of points just sitting there.
= 1849

In this 1850 List we have Moderate to High anti-horde, Moderate to High anti-Tank, and Moderate to High Close Combat ability, Moderate anti-T5+. Not to mention the Anti-Everything that is the Wraith Cannons. Add on the pure "Pimp" that is Yirel's Dual Iyanden Flags! :P and you have yourself a winner!

Honestly, your list is fluffy and all, but improve on it a little since your Wraiths are not gonna survive Battlecannon shots nor Lasc/Plas armies, let alone those nasty Necron Monoliths. Please, let me know if you have other lists you'd like for me to suggest and improve it. More than glad to ensure Eldar Victories everywhere.
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline Ragewind

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
  • Spoooooon!
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #10 on: January 1, 2009, 03:52:21 AM »
Actually haunt,

I kept the Farseer as is because for this list Eldrad is not needed. This Farseer is built to do exactly what I need and no more. The points are also a issue in this type of list but then again you know that playing Iyanden and all. You don't need Yirel (although I heartily suggest it) you can grab the Avatar for the same amount of points but then your CC ability drops to a average Moderate and you're anti-Horde drops to a Moderate as well (a overall loss). Also if you take the Avatar then you cannot hide him in a Squad which means you need to fortune him every turn depending on the army you face. I would suggest running him and the 2 Lords Leading your advance.

The Swords were a pick to make sure they are killing 2 guys a turn in CC, because they WILL get into CC> They need some backup after all. I suppose they would go MC hunting but they don't need to, what with the Cannons and Fusion Guns (and maybe Yirel) aplenty. They are there to do whatever they need to do at the moment. Think of them as a Wild card, since they don't have EML's or BL's they will receive less fire overall and thus be more effective. Sending them aganst something like a Carnifex is a waste, but sending them at say..a squad of Assault marines would be a better use.

The Singing Spears are there for some added Anti-Tank, and Destructor is to help kill off those troops before closing. Yes you loose a extra attack but the Flamer and the Str 9 ranged vs tanks or the 2+ MC's is well worth it. Besides if you gave them the Farseer and Yirel/Other Arutach then you will have a mini seer council going and that will work fine in CC. I have also seen some unneeded casualties amongst a Seer Council by running up to a vehicle and absolutely destroying it, the resutling explosion at either Str 3 or 4 is wasteful, and everything you cand o to minimize it should be taken into account.

If you are planning to give jetbikes to 3 warlocks then I suggest you reconsider your plan. While its okay for some fast anti-tank you will need at least 5 locks and a Farseer to go along with them, dramatically jumping up the cost and changing the overall army tactics. Which would not fit this type of list, but then again I am sure you know that.

The dragons are a 8 man squad because of the nature of the list.I am sure you noticed that the Wave serpent is meant to perform a 36' Ram turn 1 and knock out a heavy vehicle like a Land Raider, then you will need to make some saves if your tank dies, hence the needed wounds, when they drop out they will open fire on a nearby juicy target and the more shots you have the better.  I have taken out 2 Landraiders before with this tactic, and a Flyrant, the tally also includes a Battlewagon and some Megarmored Nobs.

Also the WraithGuard will be grabbing a 4+ cover save from the Warlocks/Avatar/Seer council w/ Yirel Combo/ Other Guard units/Lords and whatever cover is nearby. Especially with fortune they will have more than adequate protection vs a BC round. Going out of the way to Phalanx your army is tactically inflexible in this game (unless your Necrons). Besides you always have the option to interweave your 2 squads so they mutually grant each other a 4+ cover save, people don't always like that but it is rules legal and anyone can do it.

Quote
let alone those nasty Necron Monoliths
No its actually the other way around, the Monoliths won't survive the Guard.

PS: When the Fire Prism losses it main gun it needs to go Ram and Tank Shock enemy units, Normally if I was going to run 1 FP then I would add Star Engines for this purpose, but in this list it is surprisingly unnecessary.

Quote
I might be wrong, but I think I would rather have 40 storm guardians with enhance than more than one unit of wraithguard.
And an Avatar. I will keep those D cannons thank you. I will give my farseer fortune and doom, making my storm guardian tar pits become swarm busters ready to battle orks! each unit will have 4 flamers, plus 2 wraithlords with just swords and flamers will keep your wraithbone wall protected awsomely from it's biggest threat, swarms. To top it off, I want a 10 man squad of harlies with shadowseer and kisses hiding behind all of this either to protect the d cannons or counter charge anything in my wraith bone. Finally, I want something to be flexible as all get out, be able to bust tanks and fast things and eat heavy weapon squads and we have swooping hawks.
Eldar tyranid style

Well your not wrong, and your choices are perfect for their intended roles. However....yea...my suggestion is to try playing a few games with that and see how certain elements work out. You'll be surprised I believe. Good job with the Guardians and Enhance, not many people realize they can do that and it dramatically increases their effectiveness.
« Last Edit: January 1, 2009, 03:55:18 AM by Ragewind »
The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

Offline haunt

  • Aspect Warrior | I Won the Eldar Army List Competition, and All I Got Was This Title!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Country: us
  • Play and have fun.
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angel, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #11 on: January 1, 2009, 10:51:48 AM »
Mind you a good Necron player will move to 24 inch away from you to fire the Particle Whip and keep you at arms distance all the time. I do that tactic against Iyanden like armies when playing my Necrons. Not to disagree that a monolith won't survive a wraithguard volley, I just have a feeling your guards are naked from that large blast ordance.

Cooking at the moment, be back in a moment.
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline Ragewind

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
  • Spoooooon!
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #12 on: January 1, 2009, 03:36:34 PM »
Well, on a 4x6 board you can do that for a turn or two. Unless you start moving side ways which means I am already doing great since I am forcing you to react towards me. If you have only one monolith then a Wave Serpent ram will hopefully take care of that first turn, even the Fire Dragons can destroy a Monolith on a Glance as they have Ap1 weapons. I suppose if you really want to remove 3 extra Dragons then you can tack on a Exarch with Tank Hunter for some more ease in destroying a monolith. Don't forget the Spears are still Str 9 vs a Lith and they can destroy it just as easy. Incidentally they also have fleet which means getting away from them will be very very hard. You could also stick the Locks into the serpent and go gunning after the mono. In either case depending on your army setup you most likely are going to lose 1-2 Monoltihs pretty soon. While the rest of the army advances on your main force.

« Last Edit: January 1, 2009, 03:37:52 PM by Ragewind »
The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

Offline haunt

  • Aspect Warrior | I Won the Eldar Army List Competition, and All I Got Was This Title!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Country: us
  • Play and have fun.
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angel, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #13 on: January 1, 2009, 07:05:05 PM »
I have not seen anyone not pay attention to a monolith. It just means that you're concentrated on it while other forces at work are shooting the rest of your army. Come on, do you expect a monolith and those around it to ignore the rest of your army. I am giving you a heads up on your list.

Most people play 1k to 1.5k around in my area for a faster game and we coordinate bigger games than that on a longer day. In the thoughts of how many monoliths, more than likely 1 or 2 at the most. I don't question Fire Dragons with AP1 weaponries. I just can't see them making it and be effective the way you're describing it.

Again, I play Eldar and my biggest army is Eldar (42,000 pts but probably more)
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline Ragewind

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
  • Spoooooon!
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #14 on: January 1, 2009, 07:40:33 PM »
Its not really "Paying attention" the unit is designed for such a rush and you should send it against it with nary a thought. After that you can forget about and move on to other more important things. If the Fire Dragons live past turn 2 then pat yourself on the back and see what use you can put them too, otherwise don't worry about it.

I enjoy running 1-3 Monoliths when I get a chance, I typically put 2 mono's in 1500 and 3 in 1850+, I typically use mine as massive LOS blocking shields (can't shoot that Ctan now can you) which makes "ignoring them" a bit hard. On the other hand I enjoy tabling my enemies and if you have a model on the table I enjoy removing it.

Quote
I just can't see them making it and be effective the way you're describing it

I'm not talking theoryhammer here, I am relating to you real life experiences. It not only is entirely possible and very likely, you do however need to account for such a use in your army. I remember watching a interesting match with a Swordwind army. He rammed every single one of his Wave serpents into Enemy armor, and tank shocking other units after they dropped. His CC units then proceeded to wipe up the now neutered army. Such a tactic is entirely viable but only if you keep it in mind as a option. If you are the type of person who would never ram his tank into another (I lost a falcon to a Monolith Ramming me once) then these types of armies are certainly not for you.

Regardless of how many people say "Ignore the Monolith" everything is included in the army for a very specific reason. If the Necron player does not need the monolith (like my all destroyer setup) then they will most likely will not even have one. You don't include a 235 point model for giggles. If you remove the Monolith(s) then you have struck a blow to the enemy army. The typical Iyanden army can destroy units such as the monoliths with laughable ease and therefore should never consume such a large amount of resources.
« Last Edit: January 1, 2009, 07:44:30 PM by Ragewind »
The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

Offline haunt

  • Aspect Warrior | I Won the Eldar Army List Competition, and All I Got Was This Title!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Country: us
  • Play and have fun.
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angel, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #15 on: January 2, 2009, 11:14:35 AM »
We're kinda getting off-topic, since what you and I are talking about is your list. You really don't have to explain Ghost Warrior Armies to me, since I did write this Tactica.  ;)

What I had commented is your army list, and you're stating from your explanations that you are willing to take it against your type of a list for Necrons with 2-3 Monoliths?  :-\

Well, good luck as I have stated before let me know, if I could be of help.
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline moc065

  • Infinity Circuit / Necrontyr Lord / KoN Warlord
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8827
  • Country: ca
  • King of the Preemptive Strike
    • klucas.piczo.com
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #16 on: January 2, 2009, 12:08:22 PM »
Hey guys a couple of things from me.

1... Can I add a link to this thread within the Guide to using Eldar thread as I do believe this discussion started off well enough and could be developed even more.

2... @ Haunt; plese do not double post... simply use the modify button to change or add to your post, if your trying to bump the topic, then please refrain...

3...  Next, there is a huge difference for guys that start out with Ghost Armies, and those that develop one after yeasr of gaming... so make these points more defined, they are important.

4... What is the chance of taking the great work you have done, and adding a section something like This blurb so show newer members how to plan out their list, what to buy and any convertions etc that go along with the Tactics of such an army....

Now, back on topic.

You might serioulsy consider the differnces in army lists that use Ghosts, and those that revolve around Ghosts with supporting units. These two army styles are vastly different. I use Wraithguard and WraithLords; but I would not say that my lists are Ghost armies, as I actually use the Wraiths to support other unit (not the other way around).... Starky had some great concepts on Ghost armies, so you might want to collaborate with him in this regard and to show the differnces between the two style of play.

CaHG
« Last Edit: January 2, 2009, 12:15:02 PM by moc065 »
Join POC: Saim-Hann
or Read the Guide to Eldar
or read the Guide to Necrons


And Click here if you like Magic The Gathering

Offline haunt

  • Aspect Warrior | I Won the Eldar Army List Competition, and All I Got Was This Title!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Country: us
  • Play and have fun.
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angel, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #17 on: January 2, 2009, 02:07:35 PM »
Always, welcome to post something in here, as long as it pertains to Ghost Warriors or maybe even Off-Shoots from Ghost Armies.
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline Ragewind

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
  • Spoooooon!
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #18 on: January 2, 2009, 09:43:46 PM »
Moc65 has a point, there are indeed these types of armies ones that revolve around different aspects of these models. The sample list I presented is one that would revolve around the guard and keeping them alive, all units included are there because they augment a  WraithGuard strength or mitigate its weakness.

I tried a few quick games out around the list I made (it only took me 6 mins after all) and it performed admirably against SpaceMarines, Necrons, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, and Chaos Marines. The hardest game type I had was Capture and Control since I was leaving a unit behind to basically do nothing.

The dual lash Chaos list was pretty interesting, Runes of Warding as always were a great help but the best part was when a Dp lashed the Seercouncil close enough to assault. They got charged by the DP, and a unit of Plague Marines, what was left of the DP after Yirel got through with him was not pretty.

However I encourage anyone with the guts to make this type of army to create your own list, and I would caution against taking more than 1-2 units of Wraithguard. Take that as my professional opinion.
The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

Offline Starrakatt

  • Infinity Circuit
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2702
  • Country: ca
  • Bitter Vet
Re: Ghost Warrior Army Tactica
« Reply #19 on: January 2, 2009, 11:19:20 PM »
@haunt: Okay, I've never played full Ghost lists, that is TWO Wraithguard (or more) units as Troop, even back when it was an option with the Craftworld Eldar Codex, and my first post in the thread reflected that, but now I see where you are going with your Tactica I find it would be a quite interesting addition to the POC's Tactica collection.
My point was that I regularly play mixed lists with two to four Wraith units, but there is this slight variant of my original list (4th ed) being an example of what I once ran in a tourney and that is closest to a full Ghost force I've ever played:

HQ: 295 PTS
- Yriel - 155 pts
- Farseer w/ Spirit Stones, RoWarding, Fortune & Guide - 140 pts

ELITE: 335 PTS
- Wraithguard  x 5, Warlock w/ Destructor - 210 pts
 + Wave Serpent w/ Twin Shurican, Spirit Stone & Star Engines - 125 pts

TROOP: 529 PTS
- Wraithguard x 10, Spiritseer w/ Conceal - 396 pts
- Guardian Defenders X 10 w/ EML, Warlock w/ Embolden & Singing Spear - 133 pts

HEAVY: 290 PTS
- Wraithlord w/ EML, Brightlance and 2 Flamers - 155 pts
- Wraithlord w/ EML, Scatter Laser and 2 Flamers - 135 pts

FAST: 50 PTS
- Vyper w/Shurican - 50 pts

TOTAL: 1 499 PTS

This is a fun list to throw around and vey fluffy but one that is also weak enough in CC (bar Yriel and general resilience) and tha twill fall quickly to mass Rending or to too many Powerfists. Sure it will do great against T'au, IG (mechanised or not) and some other lists out there, but it will fall hard versus dedicated CC.
I won my fair share of games with that one (and variants) but I had to adapt to superior CC performances to compete against tougher opponents in the last two years...

THESE lists were those that I deemed competitive enough at the 1 500 pts range to bring into my last Tourney, three weeks ago (I used the Yriel variant) where I got a draw VS Blood Angels and a win VS mech IG - The Yriel list itself did well against both oponents, but then I didn't met the otehr extreme lists of the Tourney: Supa Space Wolves Powerfist Spam w/LR, Seer Council of Doom army and two heavy footslogging Ork mobs w/ Nobz and/or Meganobz.

Now, I feel that a Ghost army would have done well enough VS the opponents I got and probably done well too against the others present, but would have been creamed by any of the above four. As it was, my mixed force had a chance versus any of them due to anti-horde capabilities - Avengers and Harlies.

Then last week, I've got to try the Maugan Ra variant against said Tourney's winner list of Generic Marines - Not a super competitive list but the guy (a friend) is a VERY good player and consistently get First to Third place at local and Hall of Heroes Tourneys, and when he use ultra competitive lists will usually beat me 2 time out of 3 games.
The Maugan Ra variant wiped out 40 Marines out of the map for a crushing victory, most of the damages were done by a good coordination of all of the units in my force, the (Fortuned) Wraithguard holding off 20 SM in CC long enough for Mr. Ra and the Harlies to wipe them out.

Now without a strong CC power in the list I would have been locked in CC for the entire game and with no backup, the Avengers couldn't have taken that objective (dead people don't hold Objectives, no my preciousss...) and with the WG in locked in Assault the battle would have been his - As it was, a finely balanced and mixed force did it, Ghost army probably wouldn't have, but I may be wrong, as you seems to do fine yourself... :D

What I mean is that both type of lists have merits and capabilities, but at a very competitive level Ghost armies, IMHO, doesn't quite cut it, unless they take on armies that are particularly vulnerable to mass Ghosts, like T'au, IG and possibly Necrons where they should/could usually get better results over mixed lists.
Not that they aren't fun or can't win game, but you need to be a good player to pull it off, that and fight other fun and/or casual lists and/or be very good and get to fight mildly competitive ones I think, unless I am, again, wrong...

Now, I'll link that thread to the Iyanden POC as it is interesting to see some tactical stuff on complete Ghost armies in there, and an invaluable addition to the POC, thanks for the work dude. ;)

As moc065 suggested, I would apreciate (if you want to), to fine tune your original Tactica for an easy grasp and assesment of the different units and their role(s) in a Ghost Army - For example, put the Farseers and other ICs together with their related Tactics and roles in support of the different units in a Ghost force, same with the Wraithguard (both Troop and Elite choices) and the interactions they can provide with/to the other units and their respective roles in the list, same with the Wraithlords.

If you need some help or advice with BBC coding and formats to make it stand out, PM me and can will give you a hand. I like your aproach haunt, continue the good work. :)

   Starky

Join the POC: Craftworld Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors

Quote from: Farceseer Siranaul
Yes you are being dense.

 


Powered by EzPortal