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Author Topic: Full DE guide 5th edition (beginner's and advanced)  (Read 25250 times)

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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Full DE guide 5th edition (beginner's and advanced)
« on: October 14, 2008, 07:48:36 AM »
Welcome to the 5th edition Dark Eldar guide.

This guide is intended for both beginning and more experienced dark eldar players.
First is the beginner's section, which includes the units and tactics which are easiest to use or which are generally the most competitive.
The advanced section, which comes later, is for those who want to experiment with some of the dark eldar options which require more tactics, or which are just considered more risky.  Advanced entries will be marked as (advanced).

There have been some fine guides made in the past, but I've never seen one which was all inclusive.  Not to mention with the advent of 5th edition many things have changed for both the army list, and the tactics which are most effective.
I fully intend to update this whole guide if a new edition or a new codex is released.  Assuming I'm still active in this forum.

Will this be the final version? Ofcourse not! This is a work in progress, and I'm fully open to any suggestions and may continue to change anything that needs to be updated.

DON't post in here, if you have any suggestions, questions, etc post them in here or pm them to me.

If you have unit pictures like the ones used in the beginning of some units sections, send me a pm with your pictures!If you have good competitive army lists you want to share, send me a pm! If they're good I'll add them!



Full Dark Eldar Guide

If I write (advanced) somewhere it means that option is NOT for beginners, it's one of the hard/risky options to use. Some units may even be fully advanced as they're difficult to use no matter what you do to them.

Before we begin, here's a much needed answers to many player's first crucial question:
I'm new to Dark Eldar, what to buy first? How do I start a Dark eldar army?

Click on any unit title to link directly to that unit

HQ (1-2)

Dark Eldar Lord : Archon/dracon
Retinue :Incubi/warriors
Heamonculus

Wych lord: Archite, Dracite (wych cult only)

All weapons and wargear.

Special characters:
Asdrubael Vect, Kruellagh the Vile, Lelith Hesperax, Drahzar, Urien Rakarth, The Decapitator; Mandrake Champion

Elites (1-3)

Wyches
Warp Beasts
Grotesques
Mandrakes

Troops (2-6) ,these are the only "Scoring" units within 5th Ed, although other units may contest objectives.

Warrior Squads

Raider Squads

Fast Attack (0-3)

Reaver Jetbikes
Hellions

Heavy Support (0-3)

Ravager
Talos
Scourges

Forgeworld
Dark Eldar flyers : Raven, Razorwing, Void Dragon Phoenix

Dedicated Transport

Raider




General Dark Eldar & Tactica info

What's the big difference between a kabal and a wych cult?

General advice about Dark Eldar

WebWayPortal tactica: All about the Webway Portal

Which units are most effective and least effective?

What are the best ways to capture/control/contest objectives?

Annihilation guidelines

I've been playing during a few years now, my Dark Eldar army isn't that big, I want to increase it.
What do I buy next?





Dark Eldar armylists & Tactics

Before starting talking about real army lists I 'd like to mention various types of famous Dark Eldar armies. These are theme armies, they focus on some aspect of the Dark Eldar in an extreme way.

Themed armylists.

Webway Army

Dark Eldar Airforce

Splinter-O-Doom

Army of Shadows

Heamonculus Coven

Raiderless Force


Most common Dark Eldar lists:
this will be a description of the most common DE lists containing the most powerful DE units and leaving out the less good units. This is what most of us advice beginners to change in their lists. These are also the most powerful types of lists in most cases used for powergaming (for those who think winning is all that matters!)
If you're a beginner, you wish to make and list and want extra advice to be sure it's going to be good. Read this!
These will serve as guidelines for making the best use or your Force Organisation slots and using the best DE unit.
Most common Dark Eldar lists

Dark Eldar Apocalypse!

For anyone crazy enough to have a big Dark Eldar army.

Apocalypse Datasheets

Tactics and advice

« Last Edit: June 7, 2009, 07:21:57 AM by the kharandhil »
The Dark Moon Kabal ,possibly the biggest DE army ever!
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2008, 07:49:33 AM »
Dark Eldar Lords




Pictures :Lord Malzor, Rob Bradbury, Rob Bradbury

Archon or Dracon
You can have only one archon, but as many dracon as you want.

Pros: Very effective in cc, if he has the right wargear and weapon he may be able to take care of anyone and anything.
Cons: May be very expensive, needs an escort.

Both are very powerful in cc, they're one of the best cc fighters in the whole game.
They NEED an escort to: 1) survive longer
                                    2) do more cc damage as a cc unit

Wargear: agoniser/punisher(+ tormentor helm), combat drugs, splinter pistol, shadow field. That's the basic wargear. You can also use a reaver lord and give him a reaver jetbike, but his escort will then be composed of reavers rather than incubi. Respectively you can also give him a hellion board and his escort will be a hellion squad.

All questions about weapons and wargear should be answered here

advanced additional wargear:
-Trophies
-Animus vitae
-Xenospasm or terrorfex or Archangel of Pain
-haywire grenades
-plasma grenades

An archon is better than a dracon, but is more expensive. If you have spare points, go for an archon!
(spare points= points you have left after you made you list)
One extra wound and various increased skills is a big deal.
Now the whole squad is expensive that's going to be the main reason why you'll want to use a dracon rather than an archon.

If you consider taking 2 lords don't forget the shadow field fact. Only one of them will have it. The other one will only have his normal save, meaning he'll be considerably weaker in both cc and when he's shot at.

If you consider the better overall skills of the archon you'll also may feel saver giving more wargear to the archon as he'll make a better use of it.

The size of the game also helps decide whether you want an archon or a dracon. Smaller games may only need a dracon.
He may be enough for you in all battle. Some people just go for the best possible => archon.

You have several Lord formations. I'll discus each one of them on different sections. I'll put all names and their links right here:

Normal cc lord + incubi

Heavy cc lord + incubi

Reaver Lord

Hellion Lord

Ravager lord
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 10:43:20 AM by the kharandhil »
The Dark Moon Kabal ,possibly the biggest DE army ever!
over 20k and awesome, what more do you need to click? (last updated the 02/03/2012)

Nothing better than killing a thousand slaves to wake up in the morning.

Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2008, 07:49:54 AM »
Lord's renitue : Incubi/Warriors


Pictures :Da Skwire, tryanotherone,Rob Bradbury

(Lord formations underneath incubi/warriors)

Incubi:

Pros: Excellent cc fighters, good armor.
Cons: Expensive in pts. (need a raider in most cases.)

These together with the lord make it one of the best cc units ever, correctly upgraded they can take care of anyone and anything!
They're expensive, but worth it.
Look at the regular incubi. He has 2 A, powerweapon of S 4!a good save of 3+. He pretty much is the corrected/better version of a sybarite.
They're also pretty cheap compared to what a punisher + T H costs for a normal character.They're worth those 2 pieces of wargear on their own.
They're there to make sure the lord doesn't die too easily or too fast.

Besides the cc incubi you have the shooting incubi, with either a blaster or shredder. The use of those weapons is explained in here
This incubi is more expensive, doesn't have a powerweapon (or the S4, but still has 2 A.

Next to that you have retinue warriors.
What are they good for? To carry big guns (DLs or SCs)
A warrior with SR won't do much in a retinue expect serve as canon fodder. These weapons teams are pretty cheap and give the whole retinue a nice amount of firepower. Their use will be discussed a bit further.

Raider!
Most lord HQs need a raider. The reason why is very simple. They always need mobility. The HQ will always be one of the main offensive forces. You'll need him in the centre of the battle, to either shoot or go into cc.

Anything you need to know about the raider = > here

Incubi vs disintegrators.
Incubi take care of heavy armoured enemies faster than diss do.
Why? Pretty obvious, the number of attacks they have! The lord will do his nice share of damage as well.
If everything goes well you can take care of a whole squad in one turn, while it might take several with your diss.


Normal CC lord:


This is the common use of a lord.
It consists of about 5 incubi + lord, raider.
It can take care of most enemy units., the raider gives it support and makes sure it gets into cc. it's mainly cc focussed.

Pros: Very effective cc unit
cons: Expensive in pts. You'll be in trouble if it doesn't get in cc and dies in vain.

Optional
: -2 incubi with blasters (or even shredders, but remember, shredders are anti-infantry, incubi normally take care of heavy-infantry.)
-2 DLs or 2 SCs it's a good way to shoot at a unit before going into cc. These options do make the unit shooty  and cc at the same time, but they make the whole unit more expensive.
Having 2 blasters + 2 DLs is a nice amount of firepower.
You can either just have 2 SC (which is very cheap), or just 2 blasters or the whole package depending on how much pts you want to spend in the unit.
If you have doubts about this don't do it and keep the unit cc focussed.
You can either sacrifice these guys first and keep the cc power, or sacrifice them last to have a nice firepower after you're done with the cc.

Pros : Makes the unit both powerful in shooting and cc
If used well this unit will be = 2 units
Cons : Hard to make judgment at times. You don't always know if you want to shoot and cc. Even more expensive than the normal cc HQ.


heavy CC lord:
(advanced)

Almost same as above, but with more guys:
You can have lord, 5-7 incubi, raider, Drahzar, (master incubi with combat drugs)
The master incubi doesn't much better than 2 incubi, but he really is.
With combat drugs he'll have 4 A of S 5, power weapon , +1A charge
This incubi is more expensive and more effective than any incubi, he almost will look like a little DE lord.
You can add some firepower if you want, but don't add too much, this units can turn out very expensive.
In most cases your lord and drahzar remain alive on their own (with master incubi at times and may some surviving incubi)
Lord and drahzar are a unit on their own, these 2 can even kill a hive tyrant in 1-2 turns.

Pro: Perfect to take care of a various enemy main units.
Cons: VERY expensive , you'll have to know what you're doing...


ravager lord:
(advanced)

Basically this unit is a lord with warriors with DLs in a raider.
Lord= archon. This is a shooty unit, you don't need a super heavy cc lord. You can add a min to your archon like: agoniser + splinter pistol.
He'll be a decent cc fighter, better than any sybarite, but nowhere as good as most DE lord. He doesn't need to be good in cc, his unit is all about the DLs.
Remember the raider is not a ravager, it will die faster. Best is to add night shields for sure, it's going to stay long range anyways and the shield will protect it nicely at times.
Warrior squad size can go from 5-9, they're cheap, 9 is the safest way to increase survivability.
Optional: 2 incubi blasters.
This will change everything greatly. This suddenly becomes heavelier armed, but it's still short range. Night shields will suddenly become less useful and the risk of you being shot down are greater are shorter range. It's not worth it in most case, but it can be eventually.

Pros: You suddenly have a new ravager! It still has some cc power in it.
Cons: more expensive than a ravager!

imagine you have 6 warrior/raider squads already + 3 ravagers but still want more there's your answer.
You may use this squad on foot too I suppose... you don't always need mobility, though it is advised.
If you want a full splinter-O-doom (6 full warrior squads of 20 warriors each) and still want more warriors you can get them here! and make it a crazy total of 140 warriors!
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 10:49:55 AM by the kharandhil »
The Dark Moon Kabal ,possibly the biggest DE army ever!
over 20k and awesome, what more do you need to click? (last updated the 02/03/2012)

Nothing better than killing a thousand slaves to wake up in the morning.

Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2008, 07:50:20 AM »
Heamonculus!

picture by Da Skwire

General pros: Special weapons, not that expensive, fairly good in cc
            cons: no power weapons (still the scissorhands can sometimes prove to be excellent cc weapons), need an escort. 

Wargear: destructor and scissorhands.
       OR :Stinger and scissorhands.
Note: Sometimes you can choose to take pure shooty heamys, thus you'll drop all cc weapons. Why do this? To make them cheaper and use them 100% for shooting

destructor -pros: has a bigger blast, more chances of killing.
                          Overall it kills more than the stinger.
                -cons:Very short range
stinger  -pros: If you kill you'll inflict casualties with the blast.
                      The range is slightly longer.
                      Cheaper weapon!
            -cons: blast is smaller ,you have to make your hit first before you even get the explosion blast


Try having max number for each HQ choice (3), unless you need points somewhere else. Most armies will have 1-3, while others may have 4-6 heamonculi.

Where do I put these guys?

Best and most common option is in a
Warrior squads
or in a Raider squads
Other options: Grotesques
                      Retinue :Incubi/warriors
I suppose since the lord is a cc squad you can even put a heamonculus into a Wych squad
                      Reaver jetbikes
                      Hellions
                     
The destructor/stinger will give a nice support to any of these units. The downside is that you need to get close to max-kill.
It is a bit of a problem when it comes to warriors, not a problem for all other (cc) units.
Warriors are all about shooting, getting assaulted is not the best option for warriors. The only one suited for cc in a warrior squad is a sybarite, if there even is one...





« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 10:52:47 AM by the kharandhil »
The Dark Moon Kabal ,possibly the biggest DE army ever!
over 20k and awesome, what more do you need to click? (last updated the 02/03/2012)

Nothing better than killing a thousand slaves to wake up in the morning.

Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2008, 07:50:40 AM »
Weapons:
Special character weapons
-Agoniser: One of the best weapons in the whole game.
It's almost like a fast powerfist. It will wound on 4+ no matter if you're facing a hive tyrant or a dumb space marine. Besides that you don't allow saves and can glance a vehicle on 6. The downside would be the point cost.
It is quite expensive, so don't give it to all your characters.
It's not because a sybarite has an agoniser that he'll be able to kill anyone. He might just die in vain and do nothing, thus making the whole + 20pts cost completely useless.
-cc weapon: just any standard weapon, used for cc. This is the way to have a cheap cc character. Downside would be it's nothing special, do you really want to have a cheap sybarite?
-Destructor: This corrosive acid will take care of anything if you're lucky when you roll the AP. It's the most recommended weapon for a heamonculus. 2 downsides are that if you're unlucky you may not kill much, it also needs to be fired at short distance. In certain squads that can be a problem, you don't always want your warrior squad to be too close to the enemy.
It's also heamonculi only, you'll have a limited amount of these.
I like to compare this weapon to an uber flamethrower.
It has the same S as most flamethrowers, but the AP is better.
How easy/difficult is it to throw a 6+ or even 5+? VERY!
We all know it, that's the save for most of our troops lol XD.
Now this applies to the roll of AP, meaning in most cases it's = to 4 or less. If you're lucky you'll keep throwing 3 or less and nearly all saves will be nullified.
-Poison blades: great addition for any sybarite. It can be as affective as any punisher or agoniser. The advantage is the low point cost.
Disadvantages are: no extra attack, saves are allowed
-Power weapon: This is just common power weapon all races have access to. The big advantage is that you don't allow saves, but the big disadvantage with the DE is that they only have S3. Thus this weapon is mostly effective against T3 opponents/armies.
-Scissorhands: This is the better version of poison blades. Besides having the 2+ to wound, you also still have +1 Attack.
Downsides are that this weapon is only for heamonculi and it still allows saves.
-Splinter pistol: The common pistol you add to any cc weapon. it allows you to shoot at short distance and gives you +1A in most cases.
It's not as powerful as it used to be, it only shoots once in this edition.
-Stinger: It's also heamonculi only again. It's not as attractive as the heamonculus destructor, but it's able to kill a nice bunch of guys.
The big downside is that if it doesn't hit you got nothing.
If it does explode, you can expect some nice enemy casualties. It will still inflict less casualties than the destructor
-Punisher: A nice two handed weapon. Best combined with Tormentor Helm(+1 A) (BUT it does make the character more expensive, so If you don't want too high point costs, don't take the T H)
It's a better version of a power weapon, but it does add +1 S, thus making it effective against almost all armies,unlike the regular power weapon. Downside is that it's a two handed weapon...but the T H can take care of that, like I explained.
You also depend on that S value greatly. The agoniser doesn't care about S. It does have more attacks, but the punisher allows you to throw 3+ or even 2+ to wound instead of the 4+ from the agoniser.
Don't forget that one agoniser is cheaper than a punisher + TH.
The best use of the punisher is against fairly low Toughness, that way you may have to roll 2+ to wound and no saves allowed. (that's when marines feel weak)

Normal weapons
-hellglaive (HG) :+1S in the first cc turn. It also has a SR in it. You can shoot with it and go into cc. The 2 big downsides is that it's not a power weapon and the +1S bonus only lasts for 1 turn. Hellions however do have the hit & run attack rule.
-Splinter riffle (SR): This is the standard weapon for the Dark Eldar armies. The AP is pretty normal, the S of the weapon is only 3, so you can only kill very few soldiers with it. This isn't the main weapon in the squad anyways. Don't underestimate the killing potential of this weapon, but don't expect too much from it either.
-Splinter canon (SC): This is a better version of the SR, not only does it have a better S of 4, but it also shoots 4 times, thus making it the perfect anti-infantry weapon. This weapon cannot take care of heavily armoured targets.
-Blaster (Bl): A short range very powerful weapon. Can serve as anti-tank, or anti heavy-infantry. The big downsides is that it's short range and it only shoots once. Choose your targets carefully!
-Shredder (Sh?): This is one of the underrated weapons.
The new blast rules make it a more reliable anti-infantry weapon.
I suppose it can also be used against light vehicles. The big advantages are the blast and the S 6. (Remember, new blast rules are way better than in previous editions, all enemies under the blast are auto-hit)
The big downsides are: it doesn't have an AP and you can still miss with your blast.
-Dark lance (DL): This is a very common weapon in any Dark Eldar army.
Warriors, raider and ravagers can carry it...
It's the obvious anti-tank weapon. It only shoots once like the blaster, but is a logn range weapon.
It's almost impossible to find a DE army without any DL. Be sure you have enough of these in your army...
Don't forget it's not just good against tanks. Hive tyrants, carnifexes and any MC creatures will die when they wounded a few times.
-Disintegrator (dis): This weapon has 2 modes to fire. Both are very effective in this edtion. The long range mode uses a blast (which does fine in this new edition) and also has a better AP. The shorter range mode shoots 3 times and has a slightly higher AP and lower S 4, but it's still good to take care of most heavy armored enemies. (marines hates this weapon).
The big downside with this weapon is that you don't have it as much as you have DLs. Only ravagers and raiders can carry it.
People can start choosing to take more of these than DLs, but don't forget you'll always need to have those precious anti-tank DLs.
Sidenote about all blasters, Dark lances and disintegrators:
Don't use them to kill regular low armoured infantry, that's just a terrible waste...Do it only if you don't have a heavy armoured target in range.

Wargear:

-Gruesome Talisman :Useless in he 5th edition! YAY ! reminds me of the fact that gw hasn’t given us a new codex in 10 years >:  (
-Plasma Grenades : This bonus allows you to strike with your initiative. It's a very cheap upgrade and worth it when there is cover!
-Haywire Grenades : Cheap and allows you to kill a tank. Only take it if you do intend to use it. I find it nice how you can end up killing a tank with a lot of luck for only a few pts...
Downsides are that you won't use it a lot...You may not need it at all in most cases. DLs are the main anti-tank weapons.
-Archangel of Pain : Not bad at all, It allows you to pin down an enemy unit, just like the terrofex. The perfect way to give your own warriors more time to take care of other units.
Downsides: It doesn't kill anything, some tactics may not use it at all.
It's also only short range.
-Hell Mask, only for independent characters...
In most cases it's not good at all to have a character without some form of retinue. Attacker must pass a Ld test if he fails he can only hit on 6...
A lot of units are fearless, thus making this mask useless.
-Tormentor Helm : a perfect combination with a punisher( +1A) !  Downside is the pointcost. It's cheap, but do can you really afford to take it. You will in most cases, but don't forget that you're already paying for a punisher. (punisher+ helm+ extras = quite a lot of pts)
It's not advised, you may make the regular leader characters too expensive. It's still perfectly possible.
-Trophy Rack : a nice addition to your char, but do you really want to waste your pts on it ? It's cheap and does increase you leadership. By the time you'll be in cc you'll have lost a few guys already. Your Ld won't change that much in most cases.
-Soulseeker Ammunition : this is one extra bonus I enjoy giving to my sybarites. It boosts up shooting nicely, having an extra reroll is nice, but the main advantage is how it disables the cover saves.
The best option is to give it to a character with a splinter pistol as the range and number of shots will be better.
It’s perfect to boost up your shooting power. It's still worth 10 pts and should be used on a sybarite that intends to be doing some nice shooting. It's not that useful on characters that are focussed towards cc.
It's also mainly effective again armies with low saves (and low T)
Remember you're only shooting with a splinter riffle (or pistol) You can expect to be doing some heavy marines killing. It's of no use against heavy armoured armies.
-Animus Vitae : Gives you one of the best bonuses ever, use it if you have spare points. + 1 S + 1 WS. The big downside is that you have to kill to get it. By the time you have killed you'll also have suffered casualties in most cases. It doesn't change that much either.
Remember to use it as fully as possible. Best way is to use it with a punisher and combat drugs (giving a total of +2 S)
Having an AV with an agoniser is useless as S doesn't matter.
The bonus you get isn't that cheap either. 15 pts is not nothing.
-Hellion Skyboard : It increases your save. It add mobility to your character. it also allows deepstrike and gives your character a "jink" save of 5+. It's not that useful in a normal squad, don't forget that all squad members will have to move at normal speed even if the leader is "faster"
Allows you to put a heamonculus or lord into a hellion squad, which makes possible to boost hellions and finally make it into a useful unit.
-Reaver jetbike : a much used item, who doesn’t have at least one HQ on reaver ?
It does boost your leader considerably. S +1,E +1 and save (4+) are boosted.
The character's speed is increased as well. Don't forget reaver jetbikes count as eldar jetbikes in this edition. They get an extra movement during the assault fase and characters are allowed to carry 2 handed weapons.
Same as principle as hellions, A HQ reaver is used to boost up a reaver squad. It's rare to see a HQ reaver alone, it's way more fragile alone.   
-Terrorfex : the perfect toy to stop enemy units, Several of these can pin down the enemy army pretty badly. Now you have to see if your tactics really need it. A heavy cc force might not need. Shooty DE armies always find terrofexes useful, they want to avoid cc and the terrofex can pin down some dangerous enemy units while you kill all other units.
In most cases you'll need more than one, meaning this will be a pretty expensive wargear (since you prob want 2-3 of them 30-45 pts)
-shadow Field : Taking a lord without this doesn’t make any sense…
Yes! It's expensive, but it gives your char a 2+ invuln save!
If it gets destroyed your char will only have his normal low save.
This is the main reason why archons and dracon need it.
They cost so much already and are so powerful, you need to make sure they survive the longest possible, your normal save is nearly useless.
If you're lucky your Lord will remain untouched during a whole battle. If you aren't lucky, his shadow field may break and he may lose wounds and may even die.
Downsides are like I said: If save is failed you're screwed, it's fairly expensive and you can only have one. If you have 2 lords the second one will be considerably weaker as he won't have this precious 2+ invuln save.
-Crucible of Malediction : A weird item…Not really that effective, the main reason why you would use it is for pure “fun “
Some armies don't have psykers, some do, but you still may only kill a low pts cost psyker. In extreme cases you'll be able to kill a farseer, but these are very rare cases...It could be that nothing happens.
Don't forget that it also is more effective in short range.

-Combat Drugs : a must for most lords. It can also be given to normal sybarites and succubi to boost them. But you have to realise what you’re doing...it’s  like a double bladed sword.
It's a very expensive, dangerous wargear option. In most cases you'll only give it to your lord.
Best is to use 2 options and roll 2 dices. Changes that you roll a double are quite low. (remember double is - 1 W, triple is death! )
Safest is to just take 1 option.
You can take 3 or more options, but that's only at your own risk. Chances that you roll a double or triple are quite high with 3 or more dices.
Personally I always go for either 1 or 2. 1 if I want to be sure I don't lose any wounds, 2 if I'm okay with it. (you can play riskier near the end of the battle in most cases where your lord still hasn't lost any wounds due to his shadow field.)
The more gutsy people may take 3 or more...but frankly speaking it doesn't make much sense in most cases...chance of you being killed are too high. I do it if I'm fooling around and I want to have a nice battle ending cc.
All Combat Drugs options:
a)assault movement of 12", retreat of 3D6
Very useful if you need that extra movement to get into cc.
Take it if you want to get into a cc and you usually couln't with the usual 6" assault movement.
b)+1WS
DE already have very nice WS and their more powerful characters have even better WS. It won't change much if you have to roll 3+ or 4+
Because other options are more attractive and drugs are dangerous, this option isn't used that much.
c)+1 S
Useless when you have an agoniser, very useful when you have a punisher! A must if you have a punisher!
d)Strikes always first in cc
Same as WS, except DE characters have the highest Initiatives in all the game. This choice will only serve well against special cases, like banshees who also strike first...In most cases your init will be higher and you'll strike first anyways.
e)re-rolls all failed Attacks in cc
Very useful attractive choice, but you have to see if you can afford it!
You can't take too many choice when you're using combat drugs.
f)+ 1 A
Useful in most cases, same as option e)
Remember you can't take all nor can you take too many drug options.
Let's suppose you have an agoniser, you can get into cc. Best to take are e), f) and??? a) or d) if you need it or take b), but the safer option would just be to take e) and f)
Let's suppose you have a punisher, you can get into cc. Best to take are e), f) , and the c)! and??? a) or d) if you need it or take b). Here you got a problem. You'll need c) for sure, then you'll want one or 2 of all the other options...e) and f) are very attractive, a),b),d) are attractive depending on where you are and who you are facing.
Even if you're in the worst position ever don't kill yourself with drugs...

-Xenospasm : People should use it more. It’s an excellent short range shooting weapon! Perfect before going into cc. It has a nice AP, blast which is good in this edition. The only downside is the short range.
-Webway portal : A risky move that can pay off later in the game. This edition made it worse than ever. Try it at your own risk !
All about the Webway Portal
-Nightmare doll : It does nothing in this edition anymore...a sad reminder of an urgent need for a new nicely updated dark eldar codex.
-Mask fo the damned : if I’m not mistaken this is for independent chars only… it’s very rare to have any DE char all alone somewhere on the battlefield…Pretty much the same as the hell mask
-Vexanthrope : almost the same as hell mask. Consequences are just slightly different.
« Last Edit: June 4, 2009, 11:48:21 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2008, 07:51:16 AM »
Wyches !



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Pros: Excellent in cc, combat drugs, special weapons, good cc save
Cons: Weak armor against shooting, MUST get in cc, not as good as incubi!

Wyches are one of the best cc fighters , but they’re not as powerful as the lord with his incubi. What do incubi have that wyches don't?
Good armor but more importantly, they have a higher Strength and a power weapon, their leader is also of another lvl. A lord is incomparable with a succubus.

Wych weapons :
ALWAYS give them wych weapons
, it’s so cheap and makes a very nice difference during a cc phase. This is one of the main reasons why wyches are so good in cc.
Plasma grenades: Also very cheap and very useful. Wyches have a high initiative, make sure you'll strike first!
Combat drugs: these combat drugs are very different from the ones you can give to characters. You get only one option, but for free, during the entire battle! You roll this option at the beginning of the battle and see the effects. You can't simply chose what upgrade you want, so there is not point in discussing the options. What bonus you get with the C D will affect greatly how your wyches fight! Don't forget that the succubus has a separate drug injector.
Succubus : a must ! this leader upgrades the unit big time.
Her common wargear : agoniser/punisher, splinter pistol
She gives possibility to attack stronger opponents as she has very good stats and a powerweapon. She’s the one who will be doing the real killing, with her power weapon.

Additional wargear (advanced):
trophies
haywire/plasma grenades.

Blaster: as described before, anti-tank, anti heavy-infantry.
It's not the main weapon of the squad, it's just a bonus you get.
The best use really is as anti-tank. Wyches are not made to handle very heavy-infantry, let somebody else take care of those...
You can still face such enemies, but you might lose bigtime!
Don't forget you're sacrificing 2 cc wyches for this and this option is far from being free!
Shredder: This weapon is anti-infantry as said before.
In most cases it's perfect to shoot against a unit and then charge it with the wyches. Most units this weapon can harm, can also be taken on by the wyches. Most units with low Toughness and low save are perfect for wyches. How good they're in cc will tell how many wyches you'll lose.
Don't forget you're sacrificing 2 cc wyches for this and this option is far from being free! How here this sacrifice might be fully worth it.
2 shredders may take out 4-5 low save enemies easily, that's already 4 guys less before charge! Then you charge and kill everyone else!
Shredders make you win time against most infantry.
A shredder is not a must, it still does cost pts and the wych squad can probably already take care of any unit it takes on.
Haywire grenades: these are an option in the codex, but not worth it most times! Wyches are not exactly anti-tank material. You have dark lances for that. This upgrade isn't cheap either and chances that you'll actually use this are very low.

A raider is advised, you need to make sure they get into cc and don’t let them get shot at. Getting them into cc without a raider is incredibly risky!
Losing such a unit is a big deal, in most cases they're part of the main offensive forces of the DE army.
The raider will also support the wyches greatly. In a wych cult the raiders are one of the main anti-tank forces as you can't rely on big numbers of sniper squads as warrior squads are limited to 3 Elite choices.
Don’t use them to take on too powerful units. They’re not made to handle other cc units with high toughness and/or high saves. The succubus will be the only one to kill those.
Don't forget their strength either, wyches = S 3
It's a big deal as they usually take on T4 enemies. Some armies have T 3 and it isn't a problem, but at times you're facing chaos SM who have T 5 and you're in big trouble...This may be helped with the combat drugs roll, which isn't something you choose!

Who to (not) attack and why?
Light infantry vs Heavy infantry:
What's the difference? Low armor and toughness, vs same but higher.
Heavy infantry just points towards heavy armor. It may mean a high save or a high toughness. In rare cases both.
Remember! Wyches may be good in cc, but don't have any powerweapons, they only have Strength 3 (4 with drugs).
What the point of trying to kill an enemy you have a very hard time killing? Saves may always fail, but chances that a 2+ even 3+ fails are quite low. Taking on T 5 of more with wyches is just asking to be killed...
Powerweapons on wyches: they have an invuln save, power weapon or not it comes to the same...The fact that they have such weapons shouldn't frighten you. What should scare you is:
CC specialists: Some units are one of the top cc fighters. You have various reasons why they are so good in cc, but most of those excellent cc units are not the best option to attack with wyches.
Too many attacks, heavy infantry, special weapons may kill wyches very easily. Wyches do have an invuln 4+ save, but it can fail easely if it's overwhelmed. Best is to attack units who are not supposed to be in cc, but still have a high cost (because they have another important role.
(like specialized firepower)
So in summary it's best to attack: Low T, low saves, low number of attack, power weapon doesn't matter if there's a low number of attacks., expensive cost of the unit, not good in cc.

Several wych formations!

Normal ,most comon wyches
6-9 wyches+wych weapons + 1 succubus
2 shredders/blasters, plasma grenades optional.
A raider.(a must)
In a lot of cases these work by groups of 2-3 Elite choices. 3 wych raider squads will support each other greatly. If you have more raiders, prob as troop choices and some ravagers, the whole group will support eachother greatly and wyches will arrive in cc safely most times and be supported greatly afterwards.
When you have 2 you'll keep the enemy busy on 2 sides at the same time. You'll also increase chances that at least one of them (or two in lucky cases) get into cc.
Most times you also have a lord+ incubi next to your wyches, so at times you only need 1 wych squad.

Pure wyches (no succubus). (advanced)
 From 5- 10. This may sound weird, but they can be useful. Take IG, Tau empire. Do you really need that expensive succubus to take care of them?
Cheap wyches send in a raider with screaming jets towards firewarriors...that's bad for sure...A tau army without its troops is nothing...I should know...I’m a Tau player myself...Once those are gone I'm in big trouble lol.
This is not the best option ever either, it works optimal vs T3 opponents who are weak at cc. (and have low saves?)
It can also be taken for the good reason that's it's cheap and still fairly effective

Shooty (raider) wyches!
(advanced)
You may choose to have shooty wyches, in other words wyches with 2 blasters/shredders.
squad size 5-10
A raider is almost a must...wyches have almost no chance of surviving enemy shots lol and they'll have a better mobility with the raider.
You'll have yourself some assault short range mobile squad.
Wych weapon, a succubus and most comon upgrades may not even be needed in this case. Wyches are not that cheap and here you might also want to keep this squad minimal as in 5 wyches...

Raiderless wyches: (advanced)
A wych squad without any raider. Not as impossible as it sounds. You may have wyches, but not raider available. What to do in this case ?
Increase the squad size as much as you can and give them enough coverfire and other cc cover.Rely on the other units to do so. This edtion actually makes this perfectly possible. You can use other units to give cover to wyches (best option would be grotesques or warriors)
Remember new rules let you shoot through a unit, but other unit gets a 4+ cover save. (giving wyches 4+ saves yay !)
This will increase chances of them getting into cc, but I would still increase the unit so that enough wyches arrive in cc. In most cases this is what you get anyways as raider wyches get off the raider and the raider gets shot down.
The squad size may go beyond the usual 10 ,10 is the max number for a raider. Don't take too many of them either, wyches are not cheap and more wyches won't necessarily mean more killing.

You can also use a webway portal to get wyches wherever they want, but you have to give the wwp enough cover and to make it a safe spot.
From there on they're raiderless wyches...

Max size! (advanced)
Who ever said that 20 wyches would be too much?
It’s a option that will rarely be seen, as it’s just so big. The only reason why you would want such a big number of wyches is to take care of a big number of enemies (swarm armies).
You can get them to cc just like the raiderless wyches, but it still is a useless formation in most cases. If DE ever get an update I don’t see why they should keep the max-size of wyches at 20..
« Last Edit: June 4, 2009, 12:14:23 PM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2008, 07:51:36 AM »
Warp beast! Grrr!


Pictures by the kharandhil, the kharandhil

Pros: A LOT of attacks, a very cheap agoniser succubus, a fast unit,overall a cheap unit
cons:very cheap armor, don't have "wych save" no firering weapon, small number and you may experience trouble in getting them into cc at times.

It’s a very good choice, you get an enormous amount of attacks, even a very cheap succubus for only 75 pts!
Don't forget they don't count as a Elite slot, in fact they occupy not force organisation slot at all.
You can remove 2 warp beasts, but it’s best to keep them at max. They’re cheap anyway.
Now the “only” problem is getting them into cc.
Having a lot of other cc choices should take care fo that. They’re slower than raiders anyway, so raiders will be targeted first for sure.
They’re still pretty fast and they benefit from cover saves.
Another problem would be; can I afford to take these 75 pts?
It only may be 75 pts, but it's 75 pts very easily lost.
They may have a lot of attacks, but they'll die easily ,because of their low armor.
These are certainly recommend if you already have 1-2 wych squads.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 11:23:03 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 07:51:54 AM »
Grotesques...
Grotesques


picture by Da Skwire

(advanced)
This whole section is advanced. The use of grotesques is not easy. They're not the best cc fighter, they have no shooting weapons. They have some special rules...what is their use if they're not good in cc?
They're only good to die? Those reasons sum up why grotesques are not easy at all to use.

Pros: cc fighter, special rules, provide cover for other units
Cons: far from being the best cc fighter, no save, very vulnerable to heavy weaponry, no fire-power at all.

What are the 2 main things all units do? Kill and die, grots do this aswell.
Kill: they have no shooting, so they can only kill in cc.
They are not the best cc fighters. They have a decent amount of attack, but it's all plain cc weapons, no power weapons, so saves are allowed.
They can take on weak cc units with low save. Their S4 also makes them pretty decent, they're one of the rare DE units to have S 4.
Don't forget all enemies will flee if they lose cc...that the perfect time to destroy them fully.
Their survival in cc, it's also complicated. They have no save, but still have no save at all, they still do have 2 wounds and won't die that easely. Power weapon or not...a big number of attacks will take care of them in cc. It still won't happen as easily as in most cases.
10 grotesques are still worth 20 wounds in total. You don't completely kill 20 wounds in 3 seconds...Most cc squads are quite small and won't inflict that massive numbers of wounds on other squads. This is pretty big on the cc phases. If they survive and don't flee they can attack later on.
Die: cc was explained. As for them dieing by enemy fire the special rule comes in. Only 6 of more may harm them. Next to that let's not forget the insta-death. One of those shots kills them directly. No saves are allowed...so death is unavoidable...
WRONG! you're forgetting the new rules!
They can easily get a nice cover save....The can go down and get a cover save even in the open if you're not standing in some cover. Cover is way better in this edition than it ever used to be! Their survivability was upgraded in the 5th edition.
Now let's be realistic...most heavy firepower will kill them pretty easily...one S 6 shot is all you need to lose one grot.

What do I use them for since they're no the best cc fighters and they don't shoot?

Cover is the key word! Let us remind the new rules: you can shoot through units, BUT if the unit that you're shooting at does have another unit before them, that unit will benefit from a 4+ save.
It's normal to think that most armies don't have a massive amount of S6 (or higher) weapons. Wasting such previous shots is the last thing you want to do, most of those weapons don't shoot a lot and cost a lot of pts.
Basically you can get your grotesques before everyone else and they all get free cover.

Raider
: considering all the tactic from above you may not need a raider. Or you may just need it to put your grots in the front.
You may also need a raider to get a grots squad into cc, but frankly speaking using grots for cc doesn't make much sense. They have almost the same pts costs as wyches, but wyches are much better in cc.

Leader: everyone always has someone who's serves as a leader. In grotesques case it's obviously the heamonculus. They serve as a very nice cover for him and his destructor. They back him up in cc too.
Remember grots can only get a raider if they're together with a Idependant character....
A DE lord can also have the same role, except he'll be pure cc and grots will back him up too. This squad will still be way less expensive than a lord with wyches or with his regular incubi.
Even so a lord + grots is a cheap choice.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 11:25:04 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2008, 07:52:14 AM »
Mandrakes !

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(Advanced)
This whole section is fully advanced. The big downsides of mandrakes are pretty serious. If they're badly used they will pretty much be a waste of points. You have to understand their use and roles clearly and they can die pretty quickly and easely.
Using this unit proves a lot, you're willing to risk a lot, you're just trying something new or you just know what you're doing...

pros: Special deployment, good cover save.
cons: No special cc weapon, low armor in cc, averagely good in cc, no raider!

They’re basically like better sybarites without any wargear. They don’t need a raider in most cases and will get into cc anyway.
Why?
You deploy them in front, they are allowed to move over a distance of 18" (3*6") You'll have to deploy them at the end of the 3th turn no matter what.
They almost always attack first and have an OK amount of attacks.
They also have a very nice cover save once they’re somewhere in some cover. In most cases 2+ whenever they're in somewhere.
They have an extra 2+ on each cover save, so a 3 cover save will become => 3+ and all 4+ cover saves will become 2+ XD.
Now they don’t have powerweapons and their normal cc save isn’t that good at all. That’s the reason why they can’t take on anyone, but they can go anoy any enemy unit.
They’re the perfect unit to go into cc while other DE units arrive. In other words, they’re a nice support unit.
The trick is knowing where to deploy and where to lead them too. With time you can notice how they’re better at handling some units. You can put some nice pressure on the foe before you’re going to deploy them. You can learn to play with than in order to deceive him.
As you all know you have 3 mandrakes on the table and move them around. They can’t attack, but can’t be shot at either. The enemy knows you’ll deploy them somewhere near one of the 3 mandrakes...but you make it seem like you’re going to deploy them somewhere ,but you put them somewhere else. Basically you’ll mess up his plan.

One example: I have 3 mandrakes, 1 is alone, no enemy around, second is near terminators, third is near a tactic squad. Logic would tell you to get the tactic SM, as they weaker, but you still go after the termies. He wanted to attack with the termies, but you go into cc. Another wych squad goes take care the tactic squad. Your lord goes to kill another tactic squad. DLs are used to kill a few termies. Mandrakes go back into cc with the termies and both are stuck again..., DE take care of some other marines and next turn a few DLs are shot at the termies and the lord comes in to finish them off...All drakes may be dead (or a few survived) but termies didn’t do anything...
You can use these same tactics , but you may be able to kill if you’re facing an army with less good saves.
Same can be done with tau, except that crisis suits are not that good in cc and firewarriors die even faster in cc than a normal sm squad.

Since Mandrakes are not ubergood killers you should use too many squads. 2 squads max for cover on 2 sides. 3 may be too much. , but it you really insist ! Why not ! Remember even a 10 man mandrake squad won't be a vicious killer. You may be able to kill some weak cc units, but you'll die trying to take on too strong cc units.

No raider!
This is one of the big downsides and it's more related to the enemy tactics. What if your enemy stays behind and doesn't go forward?
Your mandrakes will never get to him in 3 turns and they'll be stuck half way...You can provide them with another raider if you have one, but even so transporting them won't assure your victory. They're only averagely good in cc.

No damage, fast death, they never got into cc : (
at times mandrakes may not kill anything at all or barely anything. Take marines for example; if they're lucky no mandrake will kill any of them.
Their save in cc only is 5+, they're made to be used in cc, but they'll die pretty easely in cc too!
Specialized cc units will eat these guys alive! You don't even need that good cc units to take care of them. Take a squad of kroots. Each has 2 +1A if they charge. Kroot units are often larger than mandrakes squads, and have more attacks...No matter what ...mandrakes will die in a cc turn vs kroots...1 or 2 turns and they're gone...kroots however are way cheaper!
Like I said, the deployment may fail, if it does you may end up with mandrakes somewhere they shouldn't be and be shot into pieces...
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 11:25:56 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2008, 07:52:30 AM »
Dark Eldar Warriors!


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Let me remind you that these are the only "scoring units" in this edition.

Pros: Heavy weaponry, flexible (can have lots of different uses)
Cons: bad armor, vulnerable to (cc) assault, slow

As most of us know Dark eldar are very fast, raider ravager ,jetbikes even the webway portal are all responsible for their speed!
Warrior are just on foot, but don't forget they still have the fleet on foot!

This is the main body of the Dark Eldar forces in this new edition.
There is a big focus on troop, thus it's best to have a min of 3 troop choices, but I recommend to always go for a max number of troop choices.
This will also depend on how many points you're playing, but any army of 1500-2000 pts or higher should highly consider having max number of 6 troop choices. They're a very important offensive part of any Dark eldar army. They're able to kill anything from tanks to light infantry depending on what weapons they're equipped with.

Before going into the weapon choices and formations I'll talk about the sybarite first.

Look at the sybarites stats. They're not bad at all except the save.
Then consider wargear and weapons.

Possible wargear options:-cc weapon + splinter pistol
                                    -Poison blade + splinter pistol
                                    -Poison blade + splinter riffle + soulseeker ammunitions
                                    -agoniser + splinter pistol
                                    -punisher (+ eventually tormentor helm)
                                    -power weapon

cc weapon + pistol, that's a cheap syb. Poison blade/agoniser/punisher/ those are all more cc effective options. All with different point costs.
The poison blade + riffle is a half shooty half cc options. You get any benefit from carrying a pistol with a poison blade, so why not have a riffle to have better shooting? and even equip it with special munitions.

(advanced) additional wargear:
-Trophies
-Xenospasm or terrorfex or Archangel of Pain
-haywire grenades
-plasma grenades

Don't forget that this is only a sybarite, you can lose him pretty fast. You might want to put these precious points somewhere else.

Why may I want a sybarite in my warrior squad?
It increases the survivability against cc. It's not the point to start attacking with your warriors in cc, as chances are very high that you'll lose several warriors, you may still do this as a last resort and if you have powerful sybarite in your squad. This means that in most cases you get assaulted in cc. The sybarite might make you win the cc and he'll insure that most of your squad member remain alive.
Don't forget this is an expensive extra option and it might not change anything at all! (your squad might get shot dead completely or your sybarite might do nothing in cc)
This last remark about the sybarite bring me back the the essence of warriors, which is shooting!
Another thing you may consider is how close will my warriors get to te enemy?
A sniper squad may never get close. while a squad with assault weapons (shredder/ blasters) will get short range to shoot and chances that they get assaulted in cc are high. You might want to increase the odd of them surviving in cc.
Points:  Remember sybarites are worth quite a lot of points. Better think about having 6 troops choices first and then consider sybarites. Having an extra squad instead of 4 sybarites is more battle effective.
Experience will tell you if you reall need those. In most cases when you do start understanding how DE warriors/raider squads work, you'll find out that some need sybarites and some don't...
Assault possibility: If you have a sybarite you also have the possibility to assault some last remaining enemies. He can kill, 2-3 soldiers shouldn't be a problem to kill in cc if you have a sybarite.
Some troops are completely harmless against cc, so big remaining numbers or not you can attack them. (such troops like tau FireWarriors, overall your warriors won't do much damage in cc, but same goes for FWs vs your warriors, the sybarite makes the difference in such ccs.

Warriors are all about shooting. Having a sybarite protects you against cc, protection against enemy firepower is obtained while adding more warriors. If everything goes well you shouldn't even get into cc and keep shooting the whole battle. Heavy weapons are a MUST, a sybarite isn't.

Warrior vs raider squads
Advantages: more heavy weapons, bigger squad numbers for more survivability.
Disadvantages: slower, still fairly fragile.

Before going into battle formations, I 'd like to say:
DON'T mix certain weapons. like splinter canons & Dark lances.
                                              Shredders & dark lances
Those 2 choices are possible, but those have very different roles. In both cases; the first weapon is full anti-infantry and the second is anti-tank. You have to choose either one or the other, because you can't shoot both weapons at separate times or separate targets...

2 more important facts

Warrior formations

-Sniper squad:
10 warriors, 2 Dark lances. You may increase the squad size to increase survivability. Don't do this if you only have a few squads, try going for a max number of sniper squads first.
Sybarite optional, but he will remain unused as the sniper squads are long range.

Role? To kill tanks and heavy-infantry
How? Stay far behind, move if necessary, but try to move a min.
Deploy them in the right location and you might not have to move and keep shooting the entire battle. Don't hesitate to move them if you can get them into an excellent position to shoot. Don't forget you have the fleet on foot. You can't shoot with your 2 main weapon, so when you move you might want to use fleet on foot.

-Destroyer squad (advanced)
10 warriors, 2 DL , 2 blasters. May increase squad size to increase survivability. Don't forget about having most possible troop choices first.
Sybarite optional, as it has short range weapons.

Role: kill tanks and heavy-infantry
How?You can take 2 approaches. Use it as a sniper squad who has a nice defence when somebody gets too close, or use it as a very aggresive short range squad. Now you have to deal with how to get them close to the enemy...going forward may be an option, but you'll lose precious shooting turns each time you move (you can shoot with you DLs), but you can shoot with the blasters while moving.
A good way to make full use of all 4 heavy weapons is to get them into a raider. Remember transports may now transport other units. (let us thank the 5th edition). Now you will lose some time when you have to get on board...and get the other unit off the raider...
You may use the raider from a cc unit or simple the raider from a raider squad. You'll be able to make your own heavy raider squad like this.
An option to not use any raider would be opening a webway portal in fron of the enemy, but that is pretty risky and should certainly be considered as "advanced" tactics. In any case making full use of both blasters and DLs is not always easy.

-Canon squad:
10 warriors, 2 SCs
Not much point in giving a sybarite or increase number of warriors.

Role: anti-infantry
This squad is very cheap and it's role is clear; go towards infantry and shoot them all! It's cheap but it can still be fairly effective.

-orc killers
Why "orc killers", this formation is the worst possible nightmare for orc armies containing lots of big squads. It's an uber anti-infantry formation.
10 warriors, 2 SCs, 2 shredders. May increase squad size to increase survivability. Don't forget about having most possible troop choices first.
Sybarite optional, as it's a medium/short range type of squad.

Role? like I said; uber anti-infantry
Just go forward and shoot everything that moves!
Note: this squad formations is perfect against swarm armies like IG, nids, orcs and it will be less effective against small heavy armored armies.
2 shredders and 2 SCs may kill some marines or some necrons, but chances are that you don't kill anything at all...

-Assault squad
10 warriors, 2 SCs, 2 blasters. May increase squad size to increase survivability. Don't forget about having most possible troop choices first.
Sybarite optional, as it's a medium/short range type of squad.

This is a very common used formation among Dark Eldar forces.
It's the perfect example to show what DE warriors are all about: flexibility and heavy weapons.
This has 2 different types of weapon: blasters= anti-tank, SCs= anti-infantry.

Role: anti-tank, anti medium-infantry
Whenever you have a dangerous tank in front of you this squad can still take it on at short range, but at the same time it takes care of infantry.
In most cases you don't combine such weapon, but here it's the perfect combination.
The 2 blaster shots may kill 2 guys for sire no matter their save and next to that you'll be shooting 2 SCs. The 2 blasters may kill anyone, but the SCs are limited. Realistic seen SCs can kill up to save 3+.
On average 1 Splinter Canon will kill 1-2 marines. The 2 blasters will kill about 1-2 marines on average. Together it gives a total of about 3-6 (more if the SCs are very lucky). 6 or more that's a whole marine squad, 3 that's still about half of a marine squad. 2-3 turns will take care of a whole necron squad. remember that's just one squad shooting!

Blaster squad! (advanced)
This formation consists of 10 warriors, sybarite or not, 2 blasters.

Role(s): It's obviously short range, anti-tank. Since it's short range, why not put a sybarite in it and use it as an average cc unit.

When/why use it?

You can't use it all the all the time obviously. You already have the splinter canons, the dark lances, so why would you want to take only blasters? Because you can move carrying blasters and still shoot!
You can't move and shoot with dark lances, who are the only anti-tank weapon that warriors can carry.
In a very dense terrain, like a big cityfight. You might not have any big open areas. You can keep moving through the buildings to shoot with your blaster whenever you see a tank on the streets.
It's still pretty risky as it's only short range.
The only good time to use this formation is in a very dense terrain, in other battles I would just forget about this...

Combining formations
What the best way to combine formations?
Depends on what your other army choices are.
You may only take snipers or assault squads in an army or mix both to have anti-infantry and anti-tank.
Remember the assault squads do have short range anti-tank potential, but snipers squads will take care of tanks faster with their long range.
Having only short range anti-tank may be a big problem in some cases

Taking lots of assaults squads only will create a very aggresive army, while taking only snipers will create a long range army.

Combinations will be discussed in example lists and all tactica related sections of this DE guide.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 11:28:19 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2008, 07:52:49 AM »
Raider Squads!

picture by Saucey


Pros: mobile & fast, heavy weaponry.
Cons: Small numbers, vulnerable against most medium-heavy weapons, very fragile skimmer
If the raider is destroyed it could have serious repurcussions on your warriors on board.
 
Same goes as for warrior squads:
This is the main body of the Dark Eldar forces in this new edition.
There is a big focus on troop, thus it's best to have a min of 3 troop choices, but I recommend to always go for a max number of troop choices.
This will also depend on how many points you're playing, but any army of 1500-2000 pts or higher should highly consider having max number of 6 troop choices. They're a very important offensive part of any Dark eldar army. They're able to kill anything from tanks to light infantry depending on what weapons they're equiped with.

Before Going into weapons I 'd like to talk a bit about the raider squad sybarite.

All uses and wargear or sybarites can be found back in the
Warrior squads
section.
Besides all that I'll go further into having this leader in a raider squad:
I'll make you remember a few extra things.
A raider squad is the uber example of a shooty unit.
It's not supposed to go into cc at all, in fact, the raider has to be destroyed or the warriors have to get off the raider to be able to go in cc. In most good scenarios your raider should remain intact and your warriors on it, this means there's no cc at all! Both warrior and raider squads are shooting units they have no reason to go in cc, even with a syabrite.

The raider

For detailed info go here
How does having a raider change a warrior squad?
Advantages: very mobile, fast, as weird as it may sound, a raider squad is quite hard to shoot down. You could almost say that the raider is a way to increase the armor of the warriors. The raider does have a Dark lance which allows to still have 2 DLs just like the normal warrior sniper squad. You can always change the DL into disintergrator.µ
Warriors may still remain alive after the raider gets shot down (meaning that the raider will have taken heavy fire and was destroyed,thus sparing the warriors from taking that same enemy fire.
Disadvantages: Smaller amount of assault weapons, smaller squad numbers. Raider may explode! (possibility of causing losses among the warriors), loses DL once raider explodes.

Raider squad vs ravager

A sniper gunboat has nearly the same role as a ravager.
It just has less weapons ,it has the same movement, but the armor is very different. A sniper gunboat can be cheaper than a ravager too, but the best reason to prefer a gunboat to a ravager is the fact that it's a troop and only troops can score in the 5th edition! Ravagers don't take objectives...If you have the max troops you can take ravagers without any problem.

Reminder to all the new guys!
Don't forget you can have ONLY one or the following weapons one each raider squad: shredder, blaster, dark lance, splinter canon

The only legal and possible weapon options are:
-1 splinter canon, 1 blasters
-1 splinter canon, 1shredder
-1 dark lance, 1 blasters
-1 dark lance, 1shredder
-1 splinter canon,
-1 dark lance,
-1 blasters
-1shredder
I found that this had to be mentioned, because new dark eldar player still come up with raider squads with 2 blasters, or 2 dark lance, ect
Those weapon combinations are illegal!


Gunboat formations
(gunboat = a raider squad)

Before naming all formations I'll first mention 3 things
Squad size: 5-10. 5 is a minimum, 10 is the max. You take 10 to be sure your warriors do survive some time after the crash. 5 warriors may all die in the crash of the raider...The small number of warriors is a serious disadvantage, that's why it's advised to have full raider squads.
minimal raider squads are only perfectly acceptable in small battles.
Sybarite: always optional, but remember what I said here above. Having no sybarites at all in any raider squad is perfectly possible.
Heamonculus: Don't forget you can always add a heamy in here for some extra firepower. Here you might even drop his scissorhands to keep him 100% shooty.

Sniper Gunboat
5-10 warriors, raider , 1 DL
It's the same as the normal sniper squad, but in more mobile version.
It may move and shoot unlike the normal sniper squad.
Like I said it does have more protection, meaning you may be more aggressive with it. But you can still use it long range, but keep moving it each turn. You'll be able to keep shooting each turn and still move...
This is one of the raiders you may want to keep with a DL. That way the role of this vehicle will remain 100% pure.

Role? Mainly kill tanks (and heavy-infantry)

Heavy sniper
Same as above, with one extra weapon.
5-10 warriors, raider, 1 DL, 1 blaster
This still is a sniper squad, but it may be more aggressive as it has an extra weapon. Eventually it can make a total of 3 S8 weapons.
If you change the raider DL =>disintegrator you'll have yourself a anti heavy-infantry with 2 S8 shots + shots from diss (3 or a blast)
Do remember that since you have to get closer that this is a riskier unit.
Long range is safer and will keep your raider alive longer.

Role: Anti heavy-infantry and anti-tank

Gunboat
5-10 warriors, raider with either DL or dis, 1 SC, 1 blaster/shredder optional.
You have the same problem when you add the Shredder/blaster as above:
A raider who needs to get close will also be more vulnerable.
Having just a SC will keep it a medium range shooter.
Having either a DL or dis on your raider depends from whether you want the raider to be more anti-infantry or still have some anti-tank potential.

Role:
A raider + SC (+ shredder) will be effective against light infantry (the shredder will increase its anti-infantry power)
The raider + SC + blaster will be anti infantry as well, but with potential of killing medium or even heavy-infantry too.
Here again this is the uber example of the flexibility of the Dark Eldar

Combining gunboats
What's the best way to combine gunboats?
Depends a lot from what you have in your other army choices.
Same as with warriors, be sure you have enough anti-tank and anti-infantry. You can mix all these, or just use one type of gunboat.

Gunboat combinations will be discussed in example lists and all tactica related sections of this DE guide.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 11:29:56 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2008, 07:53:13 AM »
REAVERS! (Semi-advanced)


Picture by Khira'lyth, Da Skwire,Rob Bradbury,Rob Bradbury

Reavers are marked as "'semi-advanced" as they're very good DE units, but they're not always easy to use, especially big units who are definetely fully advanced. They're expensive and sometimes thigns can go very wrong...

Pros: combat drugs, fast! good in cc, assault weapons
Cons: small numbers, expensive in pts

Fairly good in cc, especially with succubus (and even more with a reaver lord), they fast, even faster with a turbo-boost (who also gives a nice invuln 3+ save.
5th edition changes: reaver jetbikes count as eldar jetbike, meaning 2 things: They have an extra movement in the assault phase fo 6", they can carry 2 handed weapons

Succubus :
this leader upgrades the unit bigtime.
Her common wargear : agoniser/punisher, splinter pistol
She gives possibility to attack stronger opponents as she has very good stats and a powerweapon. She’s the one who will be doing the real killing, with her power weapon.
HQ reaver squad: any squad with a succubus serves as a good escort for a lord or a reaver heamy. WHy? Any DE HQ is focussed towards cc, he boosts up the cc potential of the whole squad.
One big reason to NOT have a succubus and still have a HQ join the squad would be for pts cheapness.
A punisher is a preferred instead of the usual agoniser. Why?
2 handed weapon+ you can get your succubus to have S 6, +1S with combat drugs, +1 S punisher ! Eventually you can get to S7 with animus vitae, but you have to kill someone before getting that bonus.

Additional wargear (advanced):
trophies
haywire/plasma grenades.

Blaster/Shredder. This may change the unit big time. The role it will have will change big time. A shredder will make the unit anti-infantry, a blaster will make it an anti-tank unit.

Biggest very often made mistake :
People use overuse their speed. You have people saying: my reavers always die so fast...
What am I doing wrong?
It’s not because they’re fast that they should aim at going forward as soon as possible. They have an extra movement now, use it to take cover ! They can move 24" when they activate their turbo-booster + 6" in the assault phase. That makes a total of 30".
Don’t go forward too soon either and give them back-up! They can’t survive on their own. That's why they die so quickly.
They're pretty expensive, losing them will be a big loss, no matter what.

Combat drugs: Don't forget how these can increase the cc potential of the whole squad big time!

How to keep reavers alive the longest?

2 things are important: their back-up, all the units supporting them, either with shooting or in cc. Keep the enemy busy, go into several cc at the same time and shoot down his important units and tanks. He'll have to much too worry about to think only about shooting down the reavers.
Second and most important way to keep reavers alive and use them fully:
Their movement! Be very careful where you send you're reavers. Consider the battlefield elements, units surrounding you (both your own units and enemy units. For example when you turbo-boost. The best to do is make sure only a few weapons can shoot at you. If there's only a few weapons that can shoot at you, your chances of surviving will be the highest. Keep considering that last free assault movement. Go forward, then you go into cover...

Reaver formations:

Reavers alone, no succubus, no assault weapons.
Reavers are not bad at cc, they only have a splinter riffle to shoot...
You can expect much from these guys, even with a nice combat drugs roll. The succubus and/or assault weapons are still central among reavers. Normal reavers are mostly extra wounds for the squad, to survive longer. This is what influences the squad size of reavers.

Shooty reavers!
You have 2 possible types of shooty reavers, obviously depending on whether you take 2 blasters or 2 shredders.
You shouldn't go into cc like crazy, you can keep depending on who those 2 weapons shoot down.
-A shredder reaver squad is a fine fast, short range and anti-infantry squad. But it's still pretty fragile and expensive. You can't allow yourself to lose them too easily.
You don't have tons of these very specialized units either.
Now don't forget you already have anti-infantry units, like warrior/raider squads, wyches and so on...Don't count on this type of squad too soon.
Take it only if you have no other choice and/if you already have enough  other anti-infantry units. Occasions where you really need this squad exclusively will be very rare, don't forget this squad is prob more expensive than all your other anti-infantry squads!
-A blaster reaver squad, more common squad, can be useful in most battles. Simply put a fast mobile ,short range ,anti-tank squad.
Squad sizes: 3-5. More will really make the squad super expensiveand is not always worth it.

A cc reaver squad:
Basically a reaver squad accompanied by a succubus (and a HQ?)
It's a pretty standard cc squad. Not too good, but far from being bad...
Best way to describe who they can take on would be medium infantry.
Not too good in cc. not too high Toughness, small numbers, not too good armor.
Squad size 3-5 , reavers are expensive and having more doesn't make the squad much better

Assault reavers!
Here we're talking about mixing a cc reaver formation with a shooty reaver formation. Basically you get something like :
3-5 reavers, 2 blasters/shredders, succubus (+ reaver HQ)
There is a big difference between such a squad with shredders and a succubus. That type of squad is focussed heavily towards light infantry.
The 2blaster + succubus alternative may even be focussed towards heavy infantry especially if it has a reaver lord (and or reaver heamonculus) This unit won't be that much more anti-tank any more as that would waste a cc turn, but it's perfectly possible. The main role will will be to shoot at something like a terminator squad and then charge it!
If you're lucky you'll kill all or nearly all of them!
The only one big downside of these squad is the point cost!

Bigger assault reaver squads! (advanced)
certainly not a unit to be advised to a beginner. These guys can't hide easely, they're every expensive and you have to know what you're doing when you use such a squad.
Basicly it's same squad from above but with squad size 7-10.
This is a very scary fast squad on the battlefield. It take a nice amount of space. It may kill quite a lot, but it may die in vain as well.
It has such a big number of "spare wounds" to sacrifice whenever it is needed. If may be pure shooty in the first phases and then turn into pure cc near the last few turns...The main point of having such a big squad= having it for longer than usually.
Even this formation won't be standing alone somewhere, it will still need back-up and support from other units. Best type of army to use this formation = Dark Eldar airforce (lots of raider and ravagers)
« Last Edit: June 9, 2009, 08:49:02 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2008, 07:53:29 AM »
Hellions

picture by Da Skwire

(advanced)
Ahaha this is probably the worst DE unit of the codex. You'll very rare use this unit, that is if you have the guts to use it. They have some very few useful uses, but even then you can't expect much of them...

Pros:cc unit, mobile,deep strike, splinter riffles, hit & run, combat drugs
Cons: very average cc and shooting, low armor

Hellions alone, without any upgrade, without a succubus?
Pretty much useless !
Why?

In terms of killing they can kill both in cc and with their splinter riffles.
Now we all know why the SR isn't the best shooting weapon ever...
It's not as bad as we all think, but it's not that good either
Hellions only get a +1S at the beginning of each assault phase. Okay after that they have the hit & run thing from the codex, but that doesn't help at all in killing, that's just fleeing safely. They only have one attack sadly. The only one who will be doing some real killing is the succubus, if there is one. Hellions may belong to the wyches cult, but they don't have that 4+invuln save wyches have, or have 2  weapons, or have wych weapons either...basically all the advantages are gone! Just one tiny advantage remained: the combat drugs might give a nice bonus to the whole squad.
Even with drugs this squad won't be the type to be able to take on anyone. Best type of units to attack would be very weak cc, low armor units.
Their survival is not too bad, but not excellent either. They have a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting.. a normal 5+ save in cc.
Now hellions can get cover like everyone else, but as we all know, going into cover with jetpacks has some risks...

Succubus : a must ! this leader upgrades the unit big time.
especially here. Hellions alone don't have many attack, or have the best cc weapon ever and have one of the worst saves ever.

Her common wargear : agoniser/punisher, splinter pistol
She gives possibility to attack stronger opponents as she has very good stats and a powerweapon. She’s the one who will be doing the real killing, with her power weapon.

Additional wargear :
trophies
haywire/plasma grenades.

One last fact to not forget about them : one hellion can carry either 1 shredder/blaster. (yeah only one puny assault weapon)

Hellions formations


Suicide bomber:
A squad of 3 hellions, one with a blaster
No succubus, nothing big.
They deep-strike and shoot a vehicle with their only short distance assault weapon. Remember how the deep-strike may still go wrong and you can lose the entire unit...
Total cost = 64 pts.
This unit won't last long in most cases, as I've said before hellions are one of the worst DE units ever...HOWEVER don't forget this formation could end up surviving 1-2 turns and kill a big tank who is worth a lot of pts. Basicly this is a "all or nothing" tactic. Either it works or it doesn't...

CC hellions 1-3 hellions (more eventually). Succubus, 1 blaster/shredder.
This unit is all about the succubus. Once he/she is dead your unit becomes useless. The extra gun does increase the killing potential, the extra hellions serve as extra wounds for the succubus, you can go beyond 3 extra hellions, but remember how expensive they are!
HQ hellions: this is the type of hellion squad that will accompany a hellions lord or a hellion heamonculus. Here again the squad will be all about the succubus + lord or/and heamy. Having those 3 all together does create a fairly acceptable cc unit. It's not as good as a lord + incubi, but it's potential may still be greater than a wych squad!
A more extreme hellion HQ would be 2 lords + hellion squad.
The number of hellions you'll have in a HQ hellion squad will also need to be higher, as you're escorting a HQ and you need to keep him alive the longest. Do remember that the lord does get all the nice hellion boar advantages! (the biggest would be better save and mobility.
Note: this HQ squad is mobile, doesn't need a raider and is still very acceptable in cc. It may even take on heavy infantry. A lord and a succubus do have a big killing potential.

Hellions alone!
This is not a formation, it's just a reminder of what hellions are capable of. A hellion squad almost looks like a mobile warrior squad. It does look at lot like a scourge squad, who can also use its splinter riffle for cc and has access to combat drugs. Don't don't have any heavy weapons except one tiny assault weapon. I compare them to warriors of scourges, because that's pretty much what they're all about, but one thing is very different. Their point cost!
One warrior can shoot just like a hellion, he can assault like a hellion too, but won't have the +1S, both will die as quickly, but the hellion costs 10 more pts.  A scourges does have the mobility, but not the +1 S bonus and costs 2 pts cheaper.
« Last Edit: June 4, 2009, 12:17:10 PM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2008, 07:54:02 AM »
Ravagers!



Picture by Khira'lyth, Da Skwire

Pros: A lot of firepower, specialized firepower (disintegrators), fast,skimmer
cons:fragile (even though better than a raider it's still pretty fragile), it can get shot down with one lucky shot

Weapons configurations:
-Most used: 3 disintegrators.
-Vect : 1 DL, 2 diss
-Anti-tank: 3 Dark Lances

How to use them?
First two are focussed towards light vehicles and heavy-infantry.
Third: 3 DL, Obviously anti-tank.

[/b][/u]Movement[/b][/u]
New rules tell us that if we move 12 inches we can fire 1 DL (or diss at max) + all defensive weapons, if we move 6" we can shoot everything. 3 DL ravagers won't get to move that much, same goes if you want to shoot many diss at max power, these will be more vulnerable. Ravagers with 3 diss or 2diss and a DL will move more so it will be a bit less vulnerable. Use movement and cover to increase survivability.
Moving forward at max speed has a lot of advantages and in most cases you're forced to do it in the first turn, you can't shoot, but you get a cover save.

Lines Of Sight and cover:
Remember ravagers are easier to be seen with the new LOS, your ravager will be vulnerable to any heavy firepower a lot faster than in previous editions.
Now the new cover rules do give some very fair advantages with the new cover saves it gets in certain situations (fast moving, behind a big terrain piece, partially in LOS)

Ravager vs talos:
The ravager can get shot down in one shot, with the new LOS rules it can even get shot sooner than before. It's difficult to hide it. The vehicle damage rules are nearly the same as they used to be, what does make all vehicles more fragile are the new LOS rules.
Because of the fact that the new ravagers can get shot down by one shot very early in the battle, a lot of people consider the talos to be superior. The talos can run now and it certainly won't get shot by one lucky shot. In fact it's very hard to shoot down a talos. These 2 reasons are perfect arguments to think talos are the perfect alternative for ravagers (some even consider them as THE best heavy support choice.

Why do you need anti heavy-infantry?
Because other than disintegrators you only have short range blasters and long range Dark lances. diss are the easy ticket towards killing marines types of infantry. Imagine a big marine army or a necron army. You'll want to get rid of them as fast as possible. Diss are your fast answer. Not only does a dis shoot more but you have several of them on your ravager.
Why may I need anti-tank ravagers?
You don't have sniper squads and still want anti-tank firepowerpower.
You will sacrifice a nice number of diss for this, but in some cases you'll have enough already and/or won't need any extras.

Sniper squad vs ravager:
It's almost the same!
Take A raider squad of 5 DE, 1 dark lance + the DL from the raider.
That makes a total of 2 DLs and a raider = 105 pts
A ravager costs = 105 pts, but has 3 DLs
It does also have a better protection, but if it gets shot down you you'll have nothing left.
A ravager is the cheapest way towards lots of heavy firepower.
The raider is a bit less armored, but if it does get shot down, you'll still have 1 DL left. In some cases it won't even matter as all passengers may die in the crash. The raider squad may have less DLs, but it has more options and more potential.
You can take it up to 145 pts and have a 10 man squad who will mostlikely survive the destruction of the raider and still keep shooting for some time... It's still more expensive and only has 1 DL.
So they have some disadvantages and some advantages.
Next to all the advantages sniper you have to consider Killpoints. Ravagers don't give those, snipers squads do...

Sidenote: Fragile doesn't mean it's going to get shot down by a fart. A vehicle is still a vehicle and it may survive more than you ever expected.
It's not because a raider has bad armor that it's 100% sure that it won't last a whole battle. It may even stay untouched during a whole battle (luck will help you out with that)

Ravager upgrades: (advanced)

-Scythes: Chances of a ravager getting into cc are not 100%, but still very low as it's a long range vehicle. It's not supposed to get into cc, however it may still get into cc somehowe and you may want some form of protection.
-Hororfex: Same as in wargear ,on raider used to pin down enemy units.
Don't forget you can't always use all shooting weapons on a ravager witht the new rules. You may even have to sacrifice a shot to use your hororfex. More importantly do you really need that extra time you'll get pinning down enemy units? Some tactics need hororfex, some don't...
-Night shield: One of the most worthwhile upgrades. It's more expensive than on raider, but worth every point, as it will greatly increase the survivability of the ravager. Every weapon willing to shoot at the ravager will have its range reduced by 6". That's a big deal for most weapons.
-Screaming jets: You want your ravager to be save and come in later on at a precise location? This is the tool! It's cheaper than on raider.
The downside is that you won't have used all its guns during the whole battle. At times you need all the DL shots you can get to kill  certain tanks. The faster you kill big threats, that higher chances of winning the battle. The ravager is fast enough to get anywhere on the battlefield fast. Screaming jets just assure you you'll be safe untill he lands somewhere, you'll also be sure he gets somewhere. At the same time it does create a nice element of surprise. A ravager is a pretty big threat, you don't want it appearing suddenly somewhere you didn't want any danger. There still is a risk when deep-striking, don't forget it!

Remember the same as for raiders. You have a lot of nice upgrades but you don't need all and can't take them all either.



How do I keep my ravager alive the longest?


There are many ways to do this, but remember how fragile ravager are...you can only try, luck will tell if all your ravagers suddenly become as tough land raiders.

Night shield and screaming jets directly affect the ravager.

All other ways are just tactics. A good army may protect its ravagers enough so that the enemy may not shoot at them.
In most cases you'll need raiders and ravagers. Lots of raiders and ravagers back eachother up greatly. A DE airforce (an army with a lot of raider and ravagers) is one of the greatest ways to keep DE skimmers alive!
Cover can help at times, the speed your ravager has too, but remember it's not all as easy as it used to be! (you can't fully hide skimmers behind certain big things any more. Daim these new Lines Of Sight rules!)


 
« Last Edit: June 4, 2009, 11:38:48 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2008, 07:54:24 AM »
Talos!


pictures by Da Skwire,Rob Bradbury, Saucey

Pros: fairly good in cc, nice anti-infantry firepower
cons: Unpredictable, vulnerable for heavy firepower.

A fine, but unpredictable cc unit. Don't forget how in this edition the talos is a Monstrous Creature. It's not some form of slow weird skimmer any more!
It serves as a firemagnet and has an ok firepower against infantry.
It can run now, meaning it’s faster than before! Always give it some kind of support.
Best way to support him is to take care of heavy firepower.

What is his job?
basically go forward as fast as he can and get his claws into the enemy!


How do you keep him alive and what's the best way to use him?

He'll suffer if he starts getting shot down by heavy firepower. Most anti-tank weapons have S8 of higher at times, meaning that in most cases they'll inflict a wound on 3+ maybe even 2+.
He only has T7, S6 weapons may still damage him too.
Lower S weapons may still hurt him on a 6+, this is not something you should completely forget. Losing one or 2 wounds due to bolter shots, that's a very big deal! But it won't happen that often if you calculate the odds.
Besides the heavy firepower you always have the pain in the ass powerclaws/fist other armies carry...It's best to avoid those whenever you can. You'll want to stay completely off a HQ with powerfist, but you may attack a leader with powerfist as he is considerably weaker and will die faster. Once he's dead, his whole remaining unit will be available to be a nice fun toy for your talos.
A Tactical SM units is the perfect lvl of enemy you should aim at with you talos. They're about the same pts cost or maybe a bit higher than the talos and he can take care of them pretty fast.
Consider just one turn: Talos moves towards them, shoots! He's lucky and kills 1-2 SM. He charges, he rolls D6 and gets 1charge + 3 A.
He kills 2-3 SM.
The talos will have taken care of 3-5 SM, that's a LOT for a marine squad. He may suffer a wound loss or 2 in worst cases, no loss at all lucky cases.

Some units have nothing to protect themselves from the talos in cc, don't have anything to hurt it in cc, they may still be expensive and have nice big guns. Those won't help them in cc and the talos will just ripp them into little pieces.

Be realistic, can he kill them all without suffering much?
He has a limited number of attack, unless he's uber lucky. He's not fully immortal. He may take on a powerful cc HQ and may win the cc if he is lucky. But it's not advised to do it. A good way to still take on such units is when he's not alone. 2 talos together or a talos + a lord + incubi can take on anyone easily, but a talos alone is still pretty limited in terms of battle effectiveness.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 11:40:20 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2008, 07:54:38 AM »
Scourges (the much hated scourges yeah!) (Advanced)


picture by tryanotherone

Fully advanced baby! As expected. They are very difficult to use effectively and die very quickly...and most importantly cost a LOT of pts!
(almost no advantages at all lol)
Use them at your own risk!

Pros: heavy weaponry, mobile, deep-strike.
Cons: Very fragile, very expensive

I'll discuss everything you can possible discuss when it comes to scourges.
The main reasons why you would want to read all this and/or use scourges is for pure sake of using a unit you never use. You want to try something else...

Be warned this whole section is very long and it might not be worth it!
It's only for the very open-minded and scourges fans!

Why are they hated ? Simple! they cost so daim much…and they don’t do as much damage as you wish they did at such a high cost.

In short ravagers and sniper squads are cheaper alternatives for the very expensive scourges. Most DE players already have enough anti-tank with the sniper squads and ravagers...and all the blasters...

About the point cost:
When you say a unit is expensive you have reasons to believe so. In the case of scourges you just have to compare them to other DE units.
Scourges vs ravager
A ravager costs 105 pts with 3 DLs, 120 pts with 3 diss
5 scourges with 4 SCs or 4 DLs cost 160 pts or 180 pts
Now you have a difference of guns...and more guns.
BUT 5 vs die way easier than 1 ravager!
(though that fact is reconsidered by some Dark Eldar player in this new edition, new Lines Of Sight make the ravagers more vulnerable, a ravager can now easily be shot with one lucky in the first turn, more about this later on)
Scourge vs warriors
AS said before 5 scourges with 4 SCs or 4 DLs cost = 160 pts or 180 pts.
If you want the same amount of big guns with warrior that will cost you:
2 squads of 10 warriors , a total of 4 SCs or 4 DLs cost = 200 pts total,
You do have a total of 20 warriors instead of 5 scourges. The only thing scourges do have is a fast and better movement. More about this later.
Now in theory if you're looking for a max number of DLS you could take 3 scourges squads with 4 DLS each, all that would still be very expensive lol

Don't forget about the new cover rules. Scourges can survive better in this edition.

Before Getting into discussing usable scourges formations, I'll go more into discussing some of the advantages scourges have vs other units.
If you could forget the point cost scourges would be one of the best units ever. If they're cheaper(and given an acceptable pts cost) in the new edition they'll be among one of the best DE units.
Advantages: their small number, it's easier to hide 5 scourges than 20 warriors. To hide themselves they have their wings!You can't always shoot units who are "hiding" somewhere. Next to that you have the big numbers of guns. 4 DLs are scary no matter what. 4 SCs should normally inflict heavy losses on light infantry.
Their deep-strike can allow them to deploy wherever they want to start.
Don't forget this is does have a serious downside. If eventually your deep-strike fails your unit could get destroyed.

Using them and keeping them alive

If you have the guts to use them, make sure it's not the only anti-tank or anti-infantry unit you have. They have to be one of the many of those types.
Why?
They already are a priority target because they cost so much and do have a significant amount of big guns. If they're the only ones capable to taking care of tanks the enemy will attack them for sure if he has tons of tanks. They won't be the biggest priority if you already have 2 ravagers and several sniper squads, especially if the snipers and ravagers are very aggressive and close to the enemy. Don't count on them too much or you'll make them a high priority.
Simply put scourges need a lot of support.
Support is a pretty big word. In cases of scourges I would go for max support. Like I said, very dangerous aggressive units.
I’m talking, reavers, ravagers, wyches, incubi and warriors.
These are the more powerful DE units. They will do a lot of damage and they will get the closest to the enemy. Why would you have to worry about the scourges when you're overwhelmed by 2 wych squads, 1 lord + incubi, ravagers ,raider squads, warriors squads and some reavers?
Near the end, you're winning "perspective".
Near the end, if everything went well most enemy units have been taken care of. Dark Eldar have 2 main types of winning games
1) Very close call, you and the enemy have about the same number of units left near the end of the battle.
2) annihilation! You still have most of your units left and you nearly wipe out all enemy units.
The second scenario would be perfect for your scourges. Their guns would help a lot in wiping out all remaining enemies.
Even without this once you're near the end and you have taken out all long range and all other potentially dangerous units for scourges ,you can go nuts and benefit 100% from your scourges.
This is how you use scourges in general. Shoot whenever you can shoot and not be damaged at all. Scourges are way too expensive to be lost easely.
One of the best types of lists to add scourges too are either splinter-O-doom or DE airforces or wych cults. In first case the big numbers protect the scourges, in second case the impressive numbers of raiders and ravagers will get all the attention for sure!In the third case you simply don't always have as many guns you wish you had. You can't rely on lot's of warrior squads to have lots of guns. Furthermore the possible massive amounts of wyches may mean big pressure on the enemy. If you're facing 6 wyches squad you better try to kill most of them before they get into cc or they will make you suffer bigtime!
Scourges vs Ravager:
As I've said a ravager can get shot with one lucky shot, very early in the battle. Scourges won't be neutralised by one shot, they need several shots to be useless or completely killed. They aren't that easy to shoot down if they're well placed. Their mobility will help thme to get away to safer spots too. Scourges have about the same number of DLs, but don't die with one shot, this is one of the altenative some DE players consider as an option after seeing their ravagers get shot down easely (which is prob due to bad luck)

I would rate DLs scourges as more dangerous than SCs scourges.
You have anti-infantry in the whole DE army.
A warrior squad with 2 shredders and 2 SCs, Is worth less points ,has a bigger number of wounds and is very effective against infantry!
You don't have that many DLs in a DE and you certainly don't have 4 DLs in 1 unit, unless you take scourges!

Scourges formations

2 most common:
4 splinter canons or 4 dark lances. Squad size 5-7

Adding a sybarite is optional.
Possible wargear options:-cc weapon + splinter pistol
                                    -Poison blade + splinter pistol
                                    -Poison blade + splinter riffle + soulseeker ammunitions
                                    -agoniser + splinter pistol
                                    -punisher (+ eventually tormentor helm)
                                    -power weapon
cc weapon + pistol, that's a cheap syb. Poison blade/agoniser/punisher/ those are all more cc effective options. All with different point costs.
The poison blade + riffle is a half shooty half cc options. You get any benefit from carrying a pistol with a poison blade, so why not have a riffle to have better shooting? and even equip it with special munitions.

Why may I want a sybarite in my scourges squad?
It increases the survivability against cc. It's not the point to start attacking with your scourges in cc, as chances are very high that you'll lose several expensive scourges. This means that in most cases you get assaulted in cc. The sybarite might make you win the cc and he'll insure that most of your squad member remain alive.
Don't forget this is an expensive extra option and it might not change anything at all! (your squad might get shot dead completely or your sybarite might do nothing in cc)

Eventually you can max the squad.But don't forget the points all the extra scourges will cost. The reason why you might do this is to increase survivability of the squad.

This does work fairly well when you have several scourges squads, but having several scourges squads is very expensive.
A full squad with 4DLs or 4 SCs cost = 240 pts or 260 pts
(no sybarite included)
2 or 3 of these squads would make a total cost of about 500 pts (2) or even 750 pts (3). That's a lot of points XD If I may be frank: that's a freagin crazy points total for 3 squads!
Now why did I say this does work fairly well? Because you still have 30 scourges! and 12 very big guns!

Example list to combine this with:
Combine this with an extreme splinter-O-doom army!
I say extreme because you really went for a full warrior force.
Like 6 full warrior squads (120 warriors) + 2 HQs with each 10 warriors.
Next to all that you can have your 30 scourges. This will be a pure shooty list (unless you add wyches in elite)

HQ (382 pts)
2 lords Ravager lords on foot with each
dracon, agoniser, splinter pistol
10 warriors, 2 DLs

Troops (1100)
4 sniper squads, each: 20 warriors, 2 DLs
2 assault squads, each: 20 warriors, 2 SCs, 2 blasters.

Heavy support (740 pts)
2* 4SCs, 10 scourges
1 * 4 DLs, 10 scourges 

The list has enough anti-tank ,enough anti-infantry. The numbers it has will simply overwhelm the enemy. The weakness it has would be against assault. Even though the big numbers will still make it a more than respectable armylist.

Funny total of 2222 pts!
(this list is very extreme of course, it's very far from being a list you would recommend to any beginner or experienced player)

Other cheaper scourges options.

2 DLs, or 2 SCs. (130 pts and 120 pts)
They’re cheaper, but still pretty expensive.
You have 2 useful guns, but only 5 scourges.
This unit is still mobile and easier to "hide" (get in cover)
This is not a bad alternative at all, it has nearly the same amount of DLs as a ravager and costs almost the same...
Compared to warriors it's also very close, but you sacrifice lots of warriors in exchange for mobility.

No sybarite allowed in here, as this squad is all about cheapness. A sybarite will cost as much as 2 DLS or 2 SCs

Wych cults might need these, as they don't have as much warriors (firepower) as kabals. If you need DLs, you can take ravagers, but if you need anti-infantry big time you might think about taking scourges.

Another very weird choice would be 2 DLs and 2 SCs (in the same squad…)
It’s certainly not recommended. It serves as anti-infantry and anti-tank.
It’s expensive…not the best choice ever. The two types of weapons have 2 very different roles...It's very illogical...
Why do I mention it ? that’s what you get in the only scourges box (I got no clue on what gw was thinking back then…)
This option exists…but you need to be drunk ? to use it…
If you ever did buy that 5 scourges box, buy a second one to have 2 scourges squads (4DLs, 4 SCs)
I'm NOT recommending this unit at all, but it's a possibility...in case you got that scourges box and want to play with it no matter what...if it's just for fun it's okay to use it, if you're looking towards best armylist, buy more scourges or simply forget about this...

To anyone who got to this part...congratulati ons! You really seem to want to use scourges lol! I hope you enjoy trying out scourges!

Most important rule of warhammer 40.000 = "have fun"
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 11:42:39 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2008, 07:55:04 AM »
Wych Lords

pciture by Relentless

Pros: excellent in cc
Cons: expensive, needs a retinue

Kabal Lords vs. Wych Lords

The primary differences between these two is slightly higher initiative on the Archites and Dracites, and the different saving throws they get compared with Archons, and Dracons.  Wych Lords have a worse armor save, but also an invulnerable 'dodge' save in close combat.  Thus they are more vulnerable in general against shooting attacks and sturdier in assault. The worse save against shooting is not such a big deal, but it's a bigger deal than you think.
Consider "what if": saves are allowed (weapon has no AP)
Chances of the wych lord failing his save are higher than the kabal lord.
Furthermore, NOT all weapons have AP5 or better. Some still have AP6 or no AP at all. A 5+ save is a bad save, but it will save you at rare times

In addition, Wych Lords count as being equipped with Wych Weapons, which can give them a definite edge in close combat against enemy close combat specialists.  With a shadow field and/or a retinue, the save differences become less important, but can still make a difference if/when the shadow field fails. You'll remember this even more when you shadow field is destroyed and your second wych lord (if you're brave enough to take a second) won't have it to begin with.

The leader of a wych cult, escorted by a wych squad, not the uber powerful incubi. It's obvious that incubi are better than wyches.
A Lord with incubi will do better than a wych lord with wyches because of his incubi. Wyches are still very good cc fighters.
Wargear should be pretty much the same as archons/dracons

Wargear: agoniser/punisher(+ tormentor helm), combat drugs, splinter pistol, shadow field. That's the basic wargear. You can also use a reaver wych lord and give him a reaver jetbike, but his escort will then be composed of reavers rather than wyches. Respectively you can also give him a hellion board and his escort will be a hellion squad.

advanced additional wargear:
-Trophies
-Animus vitae
-Xenospasm or terrorfex or Archangel of Pain
-haywire grenades
-plasma grenades

There’s not much need for giving a wych lord a retinue, best is to just put her/him into a normal wych squad. The main reason to still get a retinue is to have over 6 wych squads. It does make a lot of difference whether you take a retinue wych squad for the lord instead of troops wyches. Remember that only wyches score, the wyches from a HQ won't...DON'T forget it!

A wych lord can’t go fight against anyone (well she can, but it’s not recommended).
The most dangerous (heavy armored) enemies should be taken care off with DLs and diss and blasters (from ravagers, raider, and warriors). A wych lord HQ is less reliable than a Kabal HQ.
(which is obvious since wyches < incubi)


« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 11:43:43 AM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2008, 07:55:20 AM »
Raven/ Razorwing/void dragon Phoenix

Pros: fun to use, They have some nice anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons. They're flyers, so they'll be hard to shoot down.
Cons: sooooo expensive, not used often, not that battle effective due to the limited amount of weapons.

Geez they have different stats in some books, razorwing was even discontinued, but it wasn’t such a good flyer to begin with. The raven isn’t that good either. After that you have the void dragon phoenix, that one doesn't even have DE weapon LOL XD!
Even IG players who don’t play DE tell me eldar and Dark eldar vehicles don’t have enough weapons and that’s one of the big reasons why it’s not worth it.
On the other side it is also very expensive. You ripped off even worse than when you use scourges. At least scourges can have 4 seperate DLs or 4 SCs, who can be very useful...

So why would you even bother taking an expensive flyer who has only a few big guns ?
It’s a flyer! Remember, unless he gets shot down he’ll keep shooting non-stop.
If the enemy has anti-air systems he might shoot him down, but otherwise it’s almost impossible to take him down. So let’s consider you take care of the only piece of AA, even then the enemy won’t have much to worry about...
Having a flyer is mostly about fun and having a guy nobody can touch. It’s fun to have an "airplane" for once.

DLs of the Raven to take care of vehicles and flyers (interceptor rule)... they’re twin-linked...sigh...
And besides that you have a long barrels splinter canon...
The void dragon is a more effective anti infantry flyer. It has 3 big guns, who will kill some guys beneath him, but not as many as you wish.
I guess it can kill a lowly armored vehicles as well. It's actually pretty nice at killing marines, but is it truly worth it when you look at how much it costs.
The razorwing is almost the same as the raven, except it’s even more expensive. Since it was discontinued rules havn't been updated.
It has an extra horrorfex and long barrel SCs are twin-linked.
My way of upgrading this flyer is:
Give impossible manoeuvres + interceptor rule, reduce point costs to 235 pts
Weapons remain the same.

All flyers have to be lucky to have a nice battle. In most cases you will barely have killed anything…(a lil tank ? some infantry guys...)

The only good reason you can have to get one is “just to have him”

Battle statistics:
-Raven: It has a twin-linked DL, 1 lb splinter cannon.
The cannon is supposed to be AA as it has AA mount, but do the math and see how difficult is it to shoot down another flyer with your S4 weapon. Even if you do get several shots you still need devine luck. The DLs are pretty nice against flyers, but you have to hit it and damage it with just one shot.
One raven will get to shoot 6 times in 6 turns, + 24 lb SC shots. 6 shots can do nothing if you're unlucky, they can kill a tank or 2 if you're lucky.
It's not really made to handle infantry as you'll be wasting a twin-linked DL shot
to maybe kill one guy. Pointwise it's all not worth it. Imagine having 3 ravens instead of 3 ravagers...A nice amount of shots, but they cost double the point cost. I would imagine it would be quite nice to shoot down an enemy flyer.

-Razorwing
Very closely the same with the raven, but for some reason was meant to be anti infantry (due to horrofex and splinter cannon)

-Void Dragon It's pretty decent at killing marine type of enemies. 2 of the 3 weapons it has have nice APs, nice range, nice strength, the shuriken cannon counts as extra I guess. 5 heavy shots + shuriken cannon can be quite nice.
In a way it's like a small flying dark reaper squad. It can shoot down a nice amount of marines from the skies.

In a small normal battle, having a raven or a razorwing is pretty much a waste of pts. It’s not that much different in an apoc battle...But you do enjoy seeing you’re raven alive at the end of the battle...
Apocalypse can be crazy and if it’s big you can expect anything to die quickly. Flyers are safe since they’re above the battlefield...But they won’t be safe if there’s lots of AA or other flyers...

In most cases you won’t get to use your flyers anyway.
Think twice before getting a flyer. Ask yourself : do I have too much money ,to waste on useless flyers?
Don't forget these do take a force organisation slot in a normal battle.
That same point doesn't matter in apoc.
Am I willing to take these very risky DE flyers?


I like how the raven and razorwing look, they have cool fluff too, but as far as using them on the battlefield, they really aren’t any good...

« Last Edit: June 4, 2009, 12:59:48 PM by the kharandhil »
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2008, 08:08:27 AM »
Transport: Raider





Pictures by Relentless , Saucey, Khira'lyth,Da Skwire, Da Skwire,Rob Bradbury

Pros: Cheap, fast, skimmer, transports 10 Dark eldar, has a DL or dis
cons: Very fragile; can get shot down at any moment.

One of the best transport ever. They’re responsibly for the speed and firepower Dark Eldar are so famous for.
New 5th edition rules allow us to give a raider to a unit it didn't belong to originally. That way you can suddenly disembark en embark a warrior squad with 2 DLs and 2 blasters on it!
Mandrakes who want to go somewhere may use a used raider to get somewhere else.
The Dark lance they have is always handy to have, it gives you a much needed firesupport.
Remember: a DL can eventually kill a landraider in one shot, nobody enjoys losing his big tank to a transporter...
You can upgrade to disintegrator to have some very nice anti heavy-infantry shooting.
How many diss and DLs do I take? It’s up to you! However don’t forget to have enough DLs to take care of enemy tanks. In most cases I take ¼ diss or ½ diss .
If you have a lot of sniper squads you can afford to have more diss.

Getting shot down: it can mean a lot for the occupying units. Take wyches , they have the worst save ever. Nearly all of them could get shot down. Losing valuable raiders too soon could mean you losing the battle.

Lines Of Sight and cover:
Remember ravagers are easier to be seen with the new LOS, your ravager will be vulnerable to any heavy firepower a lot faster than in previous editions.
Now the new cover rules do give some very fair advantages with the new cover saves it gets in certain situations (fast moving, behind a big terrain piece, partially in LOS)

Kill points: This is valid for troops only. Remember how the raider is worth an easy KP, the squad in it is worth another KP aswell. If the raider gets shot down and most (or all) aboard get killed you lost a lot of valuable KPs.

[/b]
Sidenote: Fragile doesn't mean it's going to get shot down by a fart. A vehicle is still a vehicle and it may survive more than you ever expected.
It's not because a raider has bad armor that it's 100% sure that it won't last a whole battle. It may even stay untouched during a whole battle (luck will help you out with that)

Upgrades: (advanced)

The best is to go for clean raiders, but if you have spare points you might give some upgrades to some raiders. Remember how easy raiders can get shot down. Once you've mastered how to keep raiders alive you can start knowing which upgrades you might find useful.
2 exceptions night shields and screaming jets who will keep your raider alive longer for sure. Don't forget these upgrades aren't free either.

Scythes: They inflict damage on a unit that assault the raider. Particularly handy for cc raider. Ravagers mostly stay long range,thus usually are not supposed to
Slave snares: I love this upgrade. A nice addition to any raider that gets close to the enemy, especially cc raider.
Torture Amp :allows you to ram into a enemy squad. See yourself if you'll need it.
Trophy Racks : if it was up to me a must...
It affects the enemy Ld. Okay some units are fearless, but many units will still be affected. Both great for any raiders.
Night Shield : a wonderful upgrade for raider that stay at long distance. (sniper raiders). This upgrade doesn't allow some of the shooting on the raiders.
You can also use them on cc raiders to increase chances that they get in cc.
Remember how this work: the range of anyone or anything willing to shoot at the raider get their range lowered by 6". That is a big deal in a lot of cases. It will safe you at long distance, but it will at short distance aswell. Any weapon of range 12" will have to be at 6" to shoot at the raider. Long range of 36" will need to be at 30" to shoot at the raider.
 Screaming Jets : a fairly good upgrade, I wouldn’t put it on all raiders either, it’s best to give it to some cc raiders, as new cover rules may result in you losing raiders in the first turn already.
Shooty raider may also use it to come into battle safely later on...
These are not really needed if you’re using a massive amount of raiders.
Raiders are pretty fast you know.
Screaming jets just assure you you'll be safe until he lands somewhere, you'll also be sure he gets somewhere. At the same time it does create a nice element of surprise. A raider will incubi suddenly appearing near your HQ that will be a serious threat!
There still is a risk when deep-striking, don't forget it!
Horrorfex: Same as in wargear. It allows you to pin down enemy units. BUT! remember that one raider dies faster than a whole warrior unit. You may also be forced to sacrifice other weapons to just shoot with your terrorfex. Best to put on shooty raider, but cc raider might benefit from it too.
You can use it as often as you used to with the new rules

Don’t give all upgrades to all raiders. Just use whatever upgrade you really need.
At times you may not need any of these at all, at times you just don’t need hororfexes.
You don’t always get to use slave snares or any of the upgrades, since raiders can get shot down easily…
Some upgrades make more sense to put on cc raiders than shooty raiders.



How do I keep my raider alive the longest?


There are many ways to do this, but remember how fragile raider are...you can only try, luck will tell if all your raiders suddenly become as tough land raiders.

Night shield and screaming jets directly affect the raider. You can shoot at raider that isn't on the table or not in range.

All other ways are just tactics. A good army may protect its raider enough so that the enemy may not shoot at them.
In most cases you'll need raiders and ravagers. Lots of raiders and ravagers back eachother greatly. A DE airforce (an army with a lot of raider and ravagers) is one of the greatest ways to keep DE skimmers alive!
Cover can help at times, the speed your raider has too, but remember it's not all as easy as it used to be! (you can't fully hide skimmers behind certain big things any more. Daim these new Lines Of Sight rules!)
 
« Last Edit: June 4, 2009, 11:41:50 AM by the kharandhil »
The Dark Moon Kabal ,possibly the biggest DE army ever!
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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    • Dark Moon Kabal
Re: Full DE guide (beginner's and advanced)
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2008, 08:08:43 AM »
Dark Eldar Kabals

Very simply put a Kabal is lead by a main archon. You have several big important Kabals in Commoragh. The black heart Kabal is one of the main Kabals and is lead by the infamous Asdrubael vect. Next to the Dark Eldar lord you have their advisors, the heamonculi. Those masters of torture nto only advice the lords, but also support them with the making of talos and the horrible grotesques.
An archon knows how to lead any type of warriors into battle and he has no doubt whatsoever in using the dark mandrakes and the silent uncubi, who are one of the best bodyguards you could ever ask for.

Kabal or wych cult, they both have warriors at their disposal.
Warriors have their Ravagers and raider at their disposal.
Another aspect both these also have in comon is they both have wych cult members among them. Meaning they both have trained reaver pilots, the crazy hellions and the much feared gladiators who we all know under the name: wyches.
Occasionally they are supported of bigger types of reaver jetbikes who were modified with Dark Lances and long barrelled splinter canons, those are either ravens or razorwings.
The wych cult member are not the main force of a Kabal, thus they don't need as many wyches to disposal as wych cults do.   
Among all wyches you have one special type of succubi who enjoy wandering all alone in the warp to catch the dreadful warp beasts.
You have very few of those in most Kabal.

Next to all that both Kabals and wych cults have mercenaries at their disposal: the aerial scourges.

Very rarely they call their cousins, who are also pirates. Occasionally Eldar corsair come support them with various modified eldar flyers.

Kabals in the game

Kabals contain all Dark Eldar units as you see them in the introductions page. (with all the links)

This edition focusses on the number of troops all armies have. In the case of a Kabal is the number of warriors.
Warriors or raider squads are all about shooting. You can have up to 6 of these squads. You can add ravagers if you think you lack firepower.
Reaver jetbikes may also add some nice short range firepower.
Scourges will add some big firepower as well.
This can be either the main body of a DE army of the whole DE army you're using.
In any case it's going to be a crucial firepower, again I remind you about Killpoints. Even if you do go a very cc DE army you'll still have all your warriors...

Like I mentioned here above DE can be very good in close combat aswell.
Incucubi and wyches are one of the top cc fighter in the whole 40.000 universe.

It's not because a wych cult has more wyches that a Kabal can't be very cc focussed.

Take thise list:

HQ
-1 archon + incubi + raider
-(3 heamonculi, who are put in raider squads)

Elite
-Wyches + raider
-Wyches + raider
-Wyches + raider
Warp beast pack

Troops

-Sniper squad, 10 warriors, 2DLs
-Sniper squad, 10 warriors, 2DLs
-Sniper squad, 10 warriors, 2 DLs
-Raider squad, 9 warriors, heamonculus with destructor, 1 SC, 1 blaster
-Raider squad, 9 warriors, heamonculus with destructor, 1 SC, 1 blaster
-Raider squad, 9 warriors, heamonculus with destructor, 1 SC, 1 blaster

Fast Attack
Reaver squad ,5 reavers, 2 blasters
Reaver squad ,5 reavers, 2 blasters

Heavy support
-talos
-talos
-talos

All very cc focussed. (I've actually played this list, it always ended up in a big massacre)
It can take on any list, though it would suffer against a list with too many tanks. It still does have a fair amount of anti tank.
Once the tanks are taken care of, you continue killing all the infantry.

Now more important...what's the point of me introducing this list?

To point all the things Wych cult don't have (and show everything Kabals do have!)

Obviously a wych cult won't be lead by a kabal lord, it's led by a wych lord, so no Kabal lords allowed (meaning no incubi either :( )
No heamonculus coven troops either! This means no talos, no heamonculi, no grotesques.
Losing grotesques is not a big deal, they are not always needed or useful. BUT the talos and the heamonculi are among the top Dark Eldar units. Losing them is a big deal!
Losing the kabal lord is not a big deal, in fact the wych lords are more powerful in cc, but you lose his precious very powerful incubi. One reason why this isn't a big deal at all is their high pts cost.

Like you can see in the list above you can still have a pretty big number of wyches ,but you still have a very big number of warriors.
When it comes to holding objectives warriors have a big advantage on wyches! More about this here
Warriors can kill anything and anyone, but wyches are fairly limited when it comes to killing. Wyches for example have a lot of trouble killing a tank, even with a short range blaster.

The main big difference that kabals and wych cults have is the the fact that their troops are warriors or wyches.
Warriors/raider squads are easy to use, they can be used to do a lot of important things. Wyches have limited uses and are always short range fighters.

More about wych cults in the wych cult section underneath.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2008, 11:47:09 AM by the kharandhil »
The Dark Moon Kabal ,possibly the biggest DE army ever!
over 20k and awesome, what more do you need to click? (last updated the 02/03/2012)

Nothing better than killing a thousand slaves to wake up in the morning.

 


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