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Author Topic: Being Swept and Ever living  (Read 1776 times)

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Offline Sirdrasco

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Being Swept and Ever living
« on: November 30, 2011, 08:49:12 AM »
Had this happen and we were trying to speed play as the LGS was closing.

A Overlord and a squad of immortals were assaulted by some Gene stealers. Needless to say they were all wiped out except the lord, who then failed leadership and the swept.

The question is, does he still get a ever living roll to get back up, or does the unit get eliminated?
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Offline syth773

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 09:44:10 AM »
models with everliving get to use RP reguardless of whether the unit they were in was completely wiped out or not, that's what sets it apart from normal RP (that and where the models is place if it makes its roll).  so in that case the overlord would have had a chance to roll, and if he got back up he would have done a pile in move into the gene stealers.

read over the everliving rules again in the necron army rules section, it explains it pretty clearly.

Too bad no necrons have the regeneration rule, would be hilarious to get an armor/inv save, then a regen save, then a RP roll on top of all that.

Offline Spacefrisian

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 10:15:37 AM »
This is a pretty grey area, so until a Faq is produced you can use what Syth773 said, but dont get to attached to that trick.
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Offline prot

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, 12:02:52 PM »
With all due respect, I strongly disagree with SpaceFrisian.

I think it is crystal clear. Re-read Reanimation, then re-read Ever Living.

They are two different things. Ever living is clearly written to get around the failings and limitations of Reanimation protocols.

++edit++

I guess I should clarify this for people who can't get to their codex.

The last paragraph of reanimation protocols states:

Characters do not count for Re-animation protocols.

This works two ways- it protects the character from being run down. But conversely if the Character is the only remaining member of the squad, he is not sufficient to allow the 'dead' squad to roll reanimation protocols.

The start of 'Ever Living' rules state, If a model with this rule is removed as a casualty, do not put a reanimation marker beside the character, instead put an Ever-Living marker.....

Then it goes on to tell you the rules of of Ever Living for a character which are -different- rules from Re-animation protocols.

The rules are very similar, however it is very clear that characters are treated differently specifically because of Ever Living. It protects the character from suffering the ill effects of their fallen squad, however, it also prevents them from -helping- with Animation Protocols with said fallen squad.


« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 12:19:23 PM by prot »

Offline NightMoor

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, 01:15:14 PM »
The main problem with it though Prot is the sentence which states, "If the model had joined a unit when it was removed as a casualty, and the roll was passed, it must be returned to play, with a single wound, in coherency with that unit..."

This seems to imply that if you join a unit, you get screwed out of your roll since you clearly cannot be placed in coherency with a run that no longer exists. Note the word *must* in that sentence. That is why I think that until an FAQ comes along to change things, we currently get screwed with "ever-living" characters that only ever benefit from the ability when they are going solo.
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Offline prot

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 01:17:49 PM »
I think that sentence is there in case you were hoping your HQ could get up, and just wander off when his unit is still fine. To me this was just a mechanism to prevent Ever Living characters from leaving a squad during re-animation event.

That sentence doesn't mean if the squad is lost, so is he. It simply means if he was attached to a squad that exists, he still has to stay there.

Offline klaivex

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, 02:32:19 PM »
I agree with Prot that it probably allows the lord to get back up. However that is RAI, RAW unfortunately state that the lord has to be put into coherency with his unit, which he can't be if there is no unit left! I think that somewhere else in the rulebook (don't have mine to hand) It states that models that can't be placed for this reason are removed. Necron codex needs a FAQ!
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Offline prot

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, 03:38:45 PM »
If this were true, there is really no point for Ever Living. The point of Ever Living is to treat characters differently.

Offline NightMoor

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2011, 04:29:46 PM »
I think Matt Ward simply forgot to put in a sentence about Independent Characters being free to stand up. After all, the rule's current wording makes sense right now as it prevents Royal Court members from being able to stand up even after their unit gets run down - which is clearly the right game design choice - but it also screws Independent Characters who tag along, which seem against the RAI aspect.
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Offline Blood Hawk

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2011, 04:49:21 PM »
Hate to break it to you but you don't get RP or Ever living vs sweeping advance.  It says "Unless otherwise specified, no save or other special rule can rescue the unit at this stage, for them the battle is over".  Page 40 of the BRB.  So basically unless your rule specifically says it trumps sweeping advance then no go.   Neither RP or EL say they trump sweeping advance so you don't get them.  Sweeping advance is just that brutal.

Offline elithren

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2011, 05:51:37 PM »
Ever living is the unless otherwise specified. When the model is removed from play, you put a ever living counter and then roll for him to come back at the end of the phase.  Rules for it are very clear on how it works and sweeping advance just removes the model, or unit, from play. Everliving is not a save so it in no way goes against the sweeping advance rules.  However, after the sweeping advance happens is when the everliving kicks in. Since the model was removed, the ever living marker is placed and then you roll for him to come back at the end of the assault phase.  The unit he was with is gone, though, since RP is different then ever living.

Offline Blood Hawk

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2011, 06:10:55 PM »
Ever living is the unless otherwise specified. When the model is removed from play, you put a ever living counter and then roll for him to come back at the end of the phase.  Rules for it are very clear on how it works and sweeping advance just removes the model, or unit, from play. Everliving is not a save so it in no way goes against the sweeping advance rules.  However, after the sweeping advance happens is when the everliving kicks in. Since the model was removed, the ever living marker is placed and then you roll for him to come back at the end of the assault phase.  The unit he was with is gone, though, since RP is different then ever living.
Actually no, ever living does not specify that it deals with sweeping or trumps the rule.  Everliving is under the "or special rule" part.  You are using ever living to rescue the model from his fate and allowing him to continue fighting which is strictly prohibited in the sweeping advance rule.

Offline prot

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2011, 07:41:08 PM »
Ever living is definitely outside the BRB for sweeping advances. Quoting it won't clear up a thing unfortunately.


It makes absolutely no sense to think that with a squad his ever living rule is defunct, but alone it would allow him to exercise re-animation.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 07:52:34 PM by prot »

Offline Partninja

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Re: Being Swept and Ever living
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2011, 11:00:29 PM »
The issue we are having is not if an IC can come back or not after a sweeping advance (which they can, but would not com back into the combat), but rather he can not come back within 3" of where he died and be 1" away from an enemy model after that unit makes a consolidation move. 100% of the time, the issue was moot as he could not come back due to the 1" rule as even stated in the codex.

 


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