Topic: Eldar Close-Combat

[Cavalier]

Yeah... its a tough road with Stormies especially given where the games at today. A single unit with double flamers hidden in your backfield just to intercept a unit breaking into your lines for a single turn is the best possible use for them IMO, at least as far as a pickup games go. In themed games where you know your opponent and types of units your going up against, like Gaunts, Guardsmen or the like they have a chance.

Although I'd love to see what 2x20 Stormies with Warlocks and the Avatar could do in a themed game. Could be a very fun clash of hordes.

I think the new list is quite interesting and is very much up to the task of pick-up play. I love the configuration on your Cast of Players. As you know I've modeled up my counts-as version as Corsair vets, but I just haven't been able to figure out a load out for them that makes sense. I think you may have nailed it. I love that you have Scorpions in there too, because they need a buddy unit.

The list operates roughly at the same speed too, with the Spiders, Shining Spears (!?) and Hawks moving around at roughly the same pace. Then you've got the Scorpions, and Harlies operating at roughly the same pace as well.

What I like about this list is that its easy to imagine these units ganging up on targets in a cohesive manner which is key to winning with Eldar. With battle-focus/jetbike/thrust moves they should be able to recede together as one too, potentially disjointing the inevitable counter-attack.

You even got a Wraithknight in there to lock it down in the backfield or join in on the assault with the rest of the CC units.

Overall I think you nailed it with a Eldar CC list. You've got a bit of "Threat Overload", good scoring, good support fire via the Knight, the Hawks, the Laserbikes. Good defense with the Wraithknight, Scorpions in cover, Veil of Tears and the Bunker for deepstrike defense. Also capitalize on speed as well. I might need to give this list a whirl sometime, I really like it and I think this is a list very much worth learning how to use. Make sure you give us some bat-reps with it, I really want to know how it does!

[Ibushi]

Cheers Cav, you basically hit the nail on the head I think.

It was a funny thing, because actually all I did was take my two favourite painted samurai units (spears and...scorpions? used to be a seer council), and just jam them into an aspect host with spiders. Turns out that is a nasty, nasty combo. Much more than the sum of its parts! Also synergizes really really well with rangers, hawks, and harlequins of all things..

I ended up having a total blast running these guys, it was a total riot. 4 games under my belt so far, will put up the main batreps under a new thread.

Cheers
Ibushi

[Lyonic]

If you can go up against meq with spears they just take models off the table.. With a host ws. Stick in an autarch with a mask and they have a 24" potential charge. Couple that with the mobility to get in place... If only u could stick a warlock with them...

[Ibushi]

Glad to see the forums back up!

Yeah spears can be good, but previously I had tried and tried with starting them on the table, and just not done so well.

This time around I played with them coming in from outflank in 3 of my games, it was super effective -- moving forward I would definitely think about putting them in outflank a lot of the time.

The other one that was great, was just how incredible shrouding plus stealth is on scorpions -- typically I would infiltrate them mid-board in whatever sparse cover there is, and just sit there Cav-style until something presents itself. Or else outflank them as well, and use their higher model count to bubble-wrap objectives and kick off units like scouts or backfield techmarines. Absolutely love 'em.

[Cavalier]

Nice... glad to see you having so much success. I think threat overload with close-combat sprinkled in is really the key to long runs of success with Eldar. The more I play, the more I've been hurt overloading on skimmers, jetbikes and anything that needs to jink. It makes target priority so easy for your opponent.

Yes.. the Scorpions are a rock-solid defensive unit that really excel in an ambush roll, which is a nice fluff-to-rules translation.

Its awesome to see the Spears working for you. They've always been a difficult unit to use, but if you found a niche for them thats great.

So after outflanking with them, what did you target? Or did you just jump out of LOS in preparation for a turn 2 charge?

@Lyonic- Interesting thoughts Lyonic... but how do you manage that 24" charge?

[Lyonic]

Well i said they have a potential 24" charge. 12" move + 2d6 charge. The thing with spears jinking is, they have skilled rider so.. They have meq cover and armour save. Also they don't take terrain tests so usually first turn you should turbo boost them into dense, los blocking cover. Then pop them out and cause havoc!

[Cavalier]

Ah.. gotcha. I thought there was someway to guarantee it! Now that would be nice! But despite that yes, you're right, if you're clever with terrain you can certainly cause havoc. I wish there was someway to give them hit&run. Give me back Baron Sathoynx!

[Ibushi]

Or just give us back hit & run like they used to have! So silly.

Anyway, good question regarding what to do with them when they come on. Usually it goes like this:

Outflank, come on right or left. Look at what the nearest rear armour is -- lance pop!

No armour? Look for the nearest lonely character -- lance pop! (I got Eldrad this way one, hah!)

Failing that, put some casualties on a small squad and duck away as best you can to come back and charge as Lyonic mentioned.

The problem with spears when not outflanking is that if they are enough of a threat T1/T2, the enemy can focus their entire army on killing them, even through their nice saves. If you outflank them in T2/T3 into the backfield, the reduced ability of the enemy to focus them by then, and the buff to their jink, means they are actually pretty decent at surviving what backfield elements your opponent can muster.

Also I always thought aerobatic grace was a stupid aspect rule, but then when outflanking you can take the save and not have to worry about snap firing your lances next turn, so it is actually pretty good.

Once they are on the board and take a few casualties, they don't have the attacks to take down major squads, but they will easily smash artillery, doomsday arks, wyverns, lootas, that kind of thing, which you really don't need hit & run for anyway.

Then of course as Lyonic pointed out, they have skilled rider and ignore terrain, so they are the perfect backfield objective-takers/contesters. In one game after they came on I just zipped the exarch back and forth taking objectives while putting lance shots into things, then jetbike-moving onto the objectives. It was very effective!

Anyway, never thought that spears could actually be useful, so I am pretty stoked to see them doing so well! Thus the rant hah

[Ibushi]

Thought I would add a quick batrep update to this assault thread.

Last Friday I played my friend's tournament necrons with assualt Eldar to see how they fared.

Necrons:

Imotekh + Cyptek (Solar Staff)

2x5 Immortal
Night Scythe
2x5 Death Marks
5 Wraiths
3 Heavy Destroyer
Doomsday Ark
Void Shield Generator

Canoptek Harvest:
9 Scarabs
5 Wraiths
Spyder

Assault Eldar:

Farseer - jetbike, WARLORD
Farseer - jetbike

2x3 Scatbikes
1x3 jetbikes
5 Rangers

5 Hawks

Wraithknight - wraithcannons, 1x laser
Bunker - void shield, escape hatch

Aspect Host:
8 Scorpions + Exarch - claw
8 Spiders + Exarch
4 Spears + Exarch - lance

Cast of Players
Shadowseer - ML2, Mask of Secrets
Death Jester
Troupe Leader - caress
10 Players - 6 caress

++

We rolled up ITC mission Relic + Maelstrom on Hammer & Anvil.

Eldar Warlord Trait: Master of Ambush, hah! Psychic powers: 2x Invis, 2x Shriek, 1x Terrify, 1x Dominate, etc. Shadowseer: Peal of Discord + Veil of Tears.

Necron Warlord Trait: +1 to Seize, +1/-1 Reserve Rolls.

++

Necrons win first turn and take it, looking to jump on the relic early. They line up along their DZ line ready to rush forwards.

Eldar deploy around the bunker, scorpions infiltrated 6" in front, harlequins inside, farseer back with jetbikes out of LOS, and warp spiders infiltrated to the front left. Shining Spears hang back ready to turbo-boost, and Swooping Hawks decide to outflank. Rangers hide behind the Bunker on an objective.

++

Eldar Seize the Initiative and get the party started!! Scorpions move up a little bit, wraithknight jumps off the bunker into a ruin at mid-board, and becomes invisible. Jetbikes move out of cover and put shots into the void shield, doing minimal damage. 1 wraithcannon hits, taking down another void shield. The warp spiders jump up to try and take out some wraiths, manage to take down the void shield, and do 3 wounds to one unit of wraiths killing one.

Necrons come back by charging headlong towards the Eldar -- scarabs line up a charge on the wraithknight to tie him up, while the wraiths + imotekh + cryptek move onto the Relic and claim it. Shooting is pretty ineffective as the doomsday ark takes down the void shield on the bunker, and the heavy destroyers fail to penetrate the AV14.

Scarabs make their charge, fail to do any wounds to the wraithknight, and lose about bases.

++

Eldar continue the offensive, with the harlequins disembarking via the regular bunker access point to take advantage of Repel the Enemy, albeit at about 9" away from the Wraiths. Scorpions and Shining Spears both move up next to the warp spiders to surround the wraiths+Imotekh, while the swooping hawks come on right side and hide behind a wall after putting a wound on a wraith unit.

Invisibility is cast on the Harlequins and then also the Shining Spears, in the hopes they can survive a turn of fire and get into the Destroyers next turn.

Shooting sees a huge number of saves made by the second wraith unit (not on the relic) versus scatbike shooting, while the middle wraiths take a casualty to the warp spiders. Peal of Discord goes off and manages to remove another scarab base, hah.

Harlequins roll for their 9" charge with fleet and FAIL twice. Ouch.

Deciding to just go for it, the Scorpions charge into the wraiths anyway, and the warp spiders decide to join as a last-ditch measure to hold them up for 2 turns if the scorpions all die. Imotekh challenges, so the Scorpion Exarch steps up wih his extra +4 attacks from Stalker, bahaha, and then only hits TWICE, wounding once. Ouch. Imotekh then goes on to pass his IWND roll on his turn to regenerate the wound, but he fails to wound the scorpion in return. Regular scorpions put a large number of hits on the Wraiths, bringing one down, and only lose a couple in return, making combat a tie!

In the Necron backfield, swooping hawks move up to contest the Necron maelstrom objective and hopefully survive one turn.

Necrons are pretty choked up right on top of the middle now, so the 2nd wraith unit just jumps in too, and the tomb spyder moves up behind them. Both deathmark units come in, one takes out 2 of 3 scatbikes in the Eldar backfield, while one mishaps and is placed out of LOS next to the Shining Spears.

Shooting is pretty ineffective again, as the Doomsday Ark tries to blow up the bunker and its attendant Rangers one more time, but fails (instead of shooting the harlequins for maximum damage), while Destroyers and Immortals light up the Hawks, making them fall back.

In combat, the wraiths charge in and do some damage, the original wraiths do some more damage, and Imotekh whiffs against the Exarch again. Scorpions rack up their mandiblaster hits and do some wounds, while the Scorpion Exarch totally whiffs against Imotekh, causing 1 wound which is saved. The Warp Spiders hold with Iron Resolve, and the Scorpions test with a few minus modifiers, but are able to hold this turn again, YES. Next to them, the Wraithknight only hits once and stomps once, taking the scarabs down to 2 bases, but he is still stuck there LOL. Then the Warp Spiders roll to hit & run and fail on a 6 -- haha nicely done!

++

Eldar Turn 3 and the coups du grace -- harlequins charge the wraiths and imotekh, shining spears eliminate the deathmarks, psychic shriek eliminates the other deathmarks, and in combat the wraiths are all killed over the next two rounds of combat, at the loss of the scorpions.

At this point the Night Scythe comes on and everything available shoots at the Shining Spears to prevent them acing the destroyers and doomsday ark, but they make a ton of 3+ saves and LOS rolls to get through with the Exarch and 2 buddies. Not much left for the Necrons now.

++

Eldar Turn 4 and the Shining Spears decide to light up the Void Shield Generator, taking it out with their lances, bahaha.

Wraithknight charges and obliterates the Tomb Spyder, Warp Spiders finally disengaged and shred the Immortals.

In combat the Harlequins keep slicing away at Imotekh and just cannot get through his 2+/4++/5+++/5++++ and 4 wounds, its ridiculous. Eventually they'll get him though, and everyone else in that combat gradually goes down to Harlequin katanas.

We are out of time so we call it there. Technically Imotekh was still holding the Relic, while the Maelstrom was tied (low scoring maelstrom this game), so out of sportsmanliness we say the Necrons "won", but about 15 more minutes of play (only played 2hrs) and they would have been tabled by the assault Eldar.

++

Was a ton of fun -- didn't think the Assault Eldar would stand up to a more optimized tournament necron army (although my opponent did switch out his praetorians for Imotekh to try him out, which was a terrible decision). At this point the verdict is not final, as the assault Eldar will need to face a couple more top tournament-level lists and most importantly players to really get a sense of their mettle.

In terms of tweaks, the Harlequins need to get a couple more caresses, maybe at the expense of a jetbike for one of the Farseers (as he could then deploy in the bunker with them). But it would hurt mobility and casting double-shriek out of that unit somewhat. Also I would LOVE to swap out some units for either a dark reaper squad, or a second squad of spiders in place of the hawks. But at this point I think the hawks will stay, as they actually function nicely in conjunction with the spiders in this list, and draw fire away as they are a weaker target (rightfully so), but can threaten vehicles unlike most units in here.

Aside from that, am really happy with the synergy of threats this list has. If any of the assault units gets taken out, it puts a LOT more pressure on all the others, making them crumble. If the harlies get replaced by a second scorp squad, it doesn't work. Or Banshees -- it doesn't work. So let's just keep it the same and see what happens!

More to come soon hopefully!

Cheers

[Cavalier]

Well played Ibushi. More proof that Eldar assault does work, even against horrible mismatches like Necron Wraiths.

 I found it interesting that you think without this specific combo of assault units the over-all army wouldn't work. I'd suspect you could run another unit of Scorpions in place of the Harlequins and that it'd work relatively the same. If you ask me Veil of Tears as opposed to the Scorpions Shadowstrike (or whatever its called) is a bit of a toss up, in which I might even give the edge to the Scorpions due to their better armor, and resilience against drop pods in cover.

I gotta try your list some time I can just about run the exact same list, though I've got to make my own Void Shield generator (got the bits, just got to put it together).

I gotta say it looks like you hit the Jackpot in terms of psychic powers in this particular game. How big an impact does psychic powers have on your list? Is it a  major "glue-factor" for the army, or is it too hit or miss to really account?

Also scrape together some points to upgrade the Hawks with an Exarch, you wont be disappointed!

[Ibushi]

Thanks Cav,yeah I am liking the feel of this style of army a lot, and will try and get some more competitive games in.

Scorpions are good and all, but doubling up on them is like doubling up on burger buns -- its just not that necessary. Harlequins have a different role with their hit & run, super high initiative, and caress-rending. Against wraiths they do more wounds on the charge, with more attacks, rending on To Hit rolls of 6, and the same strength as scorps, plus against 2+ save enemies, especially warlords, they just slice them up. The Shadowseer for -2 LD and extra psychic powers & dice is a nice thing too.

The biggest difference is hit & run though, as a tried and true method for stropping an assault army in its tracks is to dogpile it, or charge it with a unit it cannot hurt, like an imperial knight or a wraithknight. In the former, for example being dogpiled by 33 zombies, the harlequins will likely kill half, and then they just hit & run out and get extra movement, charging something more vital instead. For the latter, a Wraitknight or Imperial Knight, the caress attacks will kill them before they get to strike. Scorpions just aren't even in the same league I'm afraid.

However, its true you do need some serious psychic support to get harlies to work, such as invisibility and hopefully fortune, and then the bunker is for them as well, and is really important. I tried out a version without the harlies, and it plays very, very differently. Assault becomes more of an afterthought to clean up the enemy, rather than the primary damage-dealer.

On the psychic powers thing, yes I did roll pretty well! If you can get invisibility once, that is enough, and failing that, Shrouded is really good too, especially when combined with Veil of Tears. Overall I tend to pile tons of dice into the first invis and veil (maybe 5 and 4), and then use leftover dice for Shrieks. So it doesn't majorly mater what the other powers are. Against the dreadnought army a few tournaments ago, I went double Runs of Fate for Eldritch Storm and that was a terrible mistake. Telepathy all the way! At the very least Mental Fortitude is pretty good for making jetbikes and things fearless as well.

Agreed on the Hawks + Exarch here, it is a really tough call. I want to get at least one more caress into the Harlequins as well -- I might drop 1 Warp Spider for a caress and the Exarch upgrade, but the Warp Spiders are such heavy hitters here I like to keep them beefy. Oh well.

Would love to see you rock this army, or at least similar build, once you get a fortification ready -- would be cool to see it played against different opponents by a different hand.

Cheers
Ibushi

[Cavalier]

Interesting thoughts on the Harlies. The CC slingshot is very useful indeed and they are pretty versatile. I made the Cast of Players myself and probably have to run it to truly appreciate it.

I think I just like the reliability of the Scorpion Exarch. He's such a beast and they don't need any real support to their job.

As I'm sure you've noticed I just don't go in for psychic support with my Eldar. I think I just favor stand-alone units that are a bit more predictable, though their overall potential is probably a notch below.

I think I really should give the Harlies a go at some point. The Shadowseer is a stud especially with the Mask of Secrets, and the Harlie-rending is aces. I spent ages modeling the squad up and poured a ton of bits into completing it to boot so I should give them a chance as their upside is so high. Interesting thoughts as always Ibushi. Can't wait for another update

[The Reborn]

No matter what army I've used, I try to build balanced lists...ones that can perform most of the roles you might need them to against most opponents.  So I always have CC units and tactics in play.
I've found Wraithblades with axes to be awesome...they soak-up firepower and dish-out the hurt.  My opponents tend to go for them first, which frees-up my other, less-durable units.  I like to run them with a wraithseer when I can...he's a badass in combat, and has a bit of shooty "D" too....but it's his Deliverance psychic power which helps the most...gifting my 'blades FNP.  If you can couple this with Invisibility or Fortune, they are darn near unstoppable and will chew through ANYTHING!

I really rate the Avatar now too.  His biggest problem has always been speed, but I find he gets into combat ok....and that fearless bubble of his is handy, fortuned, he's a shot-sponge as well.

I love using a wraithknight with sword of Vaul...scares your opponent and is the ultimate sponge for firepower. Not so easy to kill now it gets FNP.  Fortune again really helps, so I tend to take a few psykers.

I've also had some success with karandras, both on his own and with Scorpions.  His special rule allows safe placement near your opponent and forces him to split firepower and deal with the menace.

[davethemadorctwo]

i might be a bit 'old fashioned' or just 'old' but quins have never seemed like 'proper' eldar to me.
the shining spears are imo the absolute best cc unit that doesnt need a bit of codex twisting to make them work, and they always have a fallback anti-armour role; the 'issue' [if it is an 'issue'] is that you have to run them in units of seven to get a level of 'cost-effectiveness' - smaller units are just toast and a larger unit gets little extra pay off and starts to get 'un-wieldy' [cumbersome]. yes you can be unlucky and fail some 3+ jink saves, or a morale test and 'fly off' - but at least if you 'outflank' them most times [unless an on table dp is really going to work] they can find a 'hiding spot' for a turn until you can get them stuck in; just keep them away from multi-wound high T stuff - but tbh - scorpz and girlies wont do any better if thats what youre facing.

[Cavalier]

@The Reborn- Agreed on all points! I cannot recommend Wraithblades enough to people. They really are work-horses and with the proliferation of LOS blocking terrain mine go unnoticed till they are half-way up the field. The Avatar, Karandras, Sword&Board Wraithknight are all aces as well. Definitley worth investing some points in anyone of those units in just about any list. Well put Reborn!

@DavetheMadOrc- Harlies not proper Eldar? Make sure Irisado doesn't hear you say that! lol  Yes Shining Spears are a bit of a pain to run. They can't use their speed or outflanking rules to get into combat and it makes for a very herky-jerky unit. I wish both they and Dark Eldar Reavers could turbo-boost all the way across the board into combat, or outflank into combat like the new Raven Guard Vanguard Vets. That being said they do have some nice weapons and would be useful into getting them into combat was a bit easier. But if you go back a few pages you'll see that even as is, Ibushi made great use of a unit of just 3! I know it seems unlikely but he was rocking them in a tournament to boot. Check it out for the proof its quite incredible.

[Iluvhir Strafermeyer]

After reading all these opinions, I was able to deduce that people like Wraithknights, Wraithlords, Wraithblades and Scorpions.
What I want to know is where Banshees fit in. Seems to me basically no one picks them anymore. And truth be told, even against MEQ I can't see how you'd pick the ladies over a Scorpion squad. A 10-man Scorpion unit with a Claw Exarch does very near the same amount of damage as a 10-man Banshee unit with an Executioner Exarch. Then you have Infiltrate and 3+ saves, as well as a +4 modifier to your cover saves while Shadowstrike is in effect.
The Scorpions certainly are more expensive, but they are quite capable of making it into combat, whereas the Banshees are likely to get shot down before they get close.

What are your thoughts on this? I read that you need 10 Banshees/Scorpions to get them to work, but in this thread someone apparently had success running a small unit of 5 Banshees.
When do you pick Banshees over Scorpions, if ever?

[Cavalier]

Banshees definitely have a place but they are challenging to run. If you check out Scorpion82's most recent Eldar battle-reports on youtube you can see him run Banshees at 10 strong on foot and to great success. He also runs a 10-man Scorpion squad in a Serpent with them as well.

Sadly their old role against Marines is not the best. Stalker + the Scorpions claw makes the Scorpion Exarch one of the best CC infantry mulchers in the Eldar army. However against T3 3+ or worse units the Banshees are a nightmare. I've seen them absolutely shred Necron infantry, scarabs and even tomb spiders which is saying a lot as Necrons are an absolute contender for best army in the game. I've also seen them tear through Tyranid hordes, IG veterans, and they are still quiet effective against Marines especially in a counter-attack role against drop-pod Marines.

They can also be effective against Tau since they cannot be overwatched, but positioning them to pull off the attack is the real trick, not only against Tau but using the unit in general.

Basically it all comes down to cover. If you can take advantage of LOS blocking terrain deep in enemy territory the Banshees can go on a tear. You can either sprint on foot between pieces of big LOS blocking terrain or put them in a Serpent (even upgrade them with Star Engines) and turbo-boost them to the piece of terrain you've got your eye on, preferably a piece on the flank so they are not in the middle of your opponents entire army.

Most TO's utilize big buildings with the entire 1st floor's windows/doors sealed up thus blocking LOS of completely. Having a good smattering of pieces like this is essential to making assault armies, fragile assault units work.

EDIT: Basically if you have a couple of pieces of terrain like this, you are in business.





Also it goes without saying that they must be supported. You can't just send them in by themselves... you have to present multiple immediate threats that pull away any units that may try and gang up on the Banshees. Deepstriking Wraithguard, outflanking Scorpions, a Seer Council looking to use their Witchblades, Fire Dragons, a Wraithknight on the rampage are all obvious candidates.   

So basically, utilize LOS blocking terrain as much as possible and support them with other units which are going in for the kill. Their Ap3, overwatch denying abilities definitely put them a notch above Scorpions when dealing with T3/3+ such as Necrons, Tau Fire Warriors, Eldar/Dark Eldar infantry and other Xenos armies. Treat them like a scalpel unit and target high priority infantry units and I don't think they'll disappoint. 

[Iluvhir Strafermeyer]

You speak of t3 3+ saves. Necrons are primarily t4. Only Eldar really boast a wide range of units with t3 3+ saves.

Here's a short comparison between the performances of a full 10-man unit of either aspect, assuming they charge and the Exarchs wear an Executioner and a Claw respectively, and that every model hits on a 3+ in Assault (I'm basically assuming that they are part of an Aspect host formation with +1 WS). I'm also assuming the enemy units don't have any invulnerable saves.
I am not, however, assuming the Scorpion Exarch is fighting in a challenge. Against I4, roughly one additional wound/death is caused, assuming an enemy character accepts.
The numbers shown below represent the theoretical average amount of fatalities inflicted under each circumstance.

T4 3+ save:
Banshees: 7,33
Scorpions: 6,89

T3 3+ save:
Banshees: 10,67
Scorpions: 7,89

T3 4+ save:
Banshees: 10,67
Scorpions: 10,72

As you can see, against T3 3+ the Banshees will out-perform the Scorpions.
However, against Marines, the difference is quite small, and if you manage to get your Scorpion Exarch into a challenge, the Scorpions will likely out-perform the Banshees.
Against T3 4+ saves, the Scorpions start to come out ahead even without the Exarch fighting a challenge.

Of course, if you consider how much more the Scorpion unit costs, the Banshees are not terrible for their point cost, so long as you're not factoring durability into the equation.
Their reliance on LoS blocking terrain is kind of a problem for me. Me and my regular gaming buddies only have 3 pieces that would completely block LoS.
It would be near impossible to conceal 10 Banshees behind the other terrain pieces we have.
The Scorpions, on the other hand, wouldn't have a problem finding at least a 5+ cover save, giving them 2+ with Shadowstrike.

[murgel]

yes, it has almost always been that way. And since Scorpions can now fleet Banshees lost even that advantage to a degree. There is still the Banshee bonus but...

Frankly I think the Banshees bring in a certain psychological advantage. Everybody knows they are a "weak" choice. Scorpions are feared with all their boni and skills and the claw. Just leaving the claw behind seems to delegate them to "nuisance" in the eyes of many opponents. Banshees are seen even more useless. And that gives them and advantage.
Especially when moving on foot. they WILL be ignored even in open terrain IF they are far enough away and another target is available. So you can often position them quite well.
However they will die if they attract attention.

I really like them because they bring more models for the points then any other CC unit we have. They might be an afterthought most times but when I look for an additional unit I always look at banshees.

[Fenris]

I've had great success with 5 (wo)man banshee squads. A small unit like this is both easier to hide and presents a smaller threat, psychologically.
The psychological effects are also not only fluff, the war shout combined with their mask is their real power especially against crons.
This does not only save the banshees from casualties in CC, it gives them excellent chances to win the combat and have the crons run away, which is a death sentence.

A unit of 5 banshees (with exarch and executioner) will win combat by 2.67 vs 1.17 (0.78 if scared) against 10 warriors or immortals, RP included.
That gives about a 50/50 chance for the crons to be run down.