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Author Topic: [5th Ed] Guide on How To Best Equip Your Tyranids  (Read 12395 times)

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Offline FifthWindDieGermanator

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2008, 10:55:01 PM »
Just a note Akaiyou, you might want to update your list of hyperlinks at the beginning to include the Genestealer entry by Shinguuji, the entry on the Genestealer's retinue, and the multiple Warrior entries, along with the rest of the entries everyone else does, which includes mine.



                                                  Gaunt Brood:
Biomorphs:
Adrenal Glands: No. The role of a Gaunt is that of a meat shield. More models are needed over an upgrade it isn't meant to use.
Extended Carapace: No. Almost every weapon out there is AP 4 or better, and once again, more bodies are perferred.
Flesh Hooks: No. Frag Grenades aren't perferred, as Gaunts aren't meant to win combats. Their primary job is to soak up fire and tie up enemy units.  And I know I am repeating myself, but more bodies are better than fewer with Flesh Hooks.
Scuttlers: No. I would only use Scuttles to move them forward, as Outflanking will most likely leave them out of Synapse range, and then there is the chance they will never see combat, due to an unfavorable roll. Also, you gain more Gaunts by not using them.
Toxin Sacs: No. The only time I would use this is on a Gaunt armed with a Fleshborer (Termagaunt) as it would be able to Penetrate AV 10 and Glance AV 11, but even then, I would take more Gaunts. Leave it to the Stealers, Warriors, Tyrants, Zoanthropes, Broodlord, and Carnifexes to pop tanks.
Without Number: No. In KP missions they will be a great burden, in objective missions they will start too far away to make a difference. I would rather get more Gaunts than have a chance of getting destroyed in KP missions easier, or have a slim chance of contesting an Objective in the others.

As you can see, I think Gaunts fit the bill of "quantity over quality". The more you have, the better they can be at doing their job. Being a meat shield, and tying up units so the Carnifex can get there.

The different types of Gaunts are Spinegaunts, Devourerguants, and Termagaunts, which are gaunts armed with a Spinefist, Devourer, and Fleshborer, respectively.
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Offline Shinguuji

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2008, 12:51:29 AM »
5th wind is correct on all counts regarding gaunts - the cheaper the better!

I'm going to provide statistics here on how many wounds a spinefist, fleshborer and devourer will make on a plain old gaunt. The armour save does not matter in most cases

MEQ(T4)
Spinefist - (0.5+0.5x0.5)(1/3) = 0.250
Fleshborer - (0.5)(0.5+0.5x0.5) = 0.375
Devourer - 2(0.5)(1/6) = 0.167


GEQ(T3)Spinefist - (0.5+0.5x0.5)(0.5) = 0.375Fleshborer - (0.5)(2/3+1/3x2/3) = 0.446Devourer - 2(0.5)(1/3) = 0.333

We can see from these figures that clearly, the devourer is useless, I would rate it 0/10, because not only it is expensive, its the weakest weapon of all.

the fleshborer is 0.125 better than the spinefist against MEQ, and 0.071 better against GEQ. Thus, we can conclude that the spinefist improves as it hits against targets with lower and lower toughness.

Let's analyse the difference, to see how many more spinegaunts we need to overcome the 0.125 difference in MEQ, assume 16 gaunts[/color], the standard number.

[b[/color]]MEQ(T4, 3+ sv)Termagaunts will cause 16x0.375x1/3 = 2 wounds[b]Therefore, 2 wounds = #of spinegaunts needed x 0.250 x1/3# of spinegaunts = 2 x 3 / 0.250 = 24 spinegaunts

24 spinegaunts cost 120 points, 16 termagaunts costs 96 points, t
o deal the same 2 wounds!


Therefore, termagaunts are more effec[/color]tive than spinegaunts against MEQ by quite a bit!

Against GEQ, lets assume no armour saves (guardians, guardsmen and gaunts)GEQ (T3, 5+ sv)Termagaunts will cause - 0.446 x 16 = 7.136 woundsAs per formula,# of spinegaunts needed - 7.136 / 0.375 = 19 gaunts

19 Spinegaunts costs 95 points, 16 terma
gaunts costs 96 points

DO KEEP IN MIND THAT GAUNTS ARE PRIMARILY USED AS A MEATSHIELD, DESPITE THE FLESHBORER BEING SEEMINGLY BETTER, YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER USING SPINEFISTS


Lastly, my review
Fleshborer - 8/10 Obviously its better against MEQ, and is equal against GEQ. I would make this #1, if not for the fact that spinefists make your gaunts cheaper. Sure, 1 point per gaunt is no big deal, but when you have 48 gaunts in total(an already conservative number), you might be better off using these points against something else, like 10 more spinegaunts, that's 10x3/2x3/2= 22.5 more boltershots for the marines to reach your juicy warriors/stealers

Spinefists - 8/10 Its worse against MEQ, equal against GEQ. As you can see above, due to cheaper cost of spinegaunts, they form a better shield


Devourer - 0/10 Just don't bother.

As for the numbers, I suggest either going by box size - 16 gaunts a brood, or for larger games, get 32. Anything less than 16 is free victory points and a bad meatshield.
Ideally, you want 3 broods running around - not too many, because you want some slots for genestealers, not too few, because you want mobile easily available meatshields.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 03:54:57 AM by Shinguuji »

Offline Soul_Flayer

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2008, 04:53:18 AM »
RAVENER

I think that the only good use of raveners is in CC.  giving them ranged weapons is extra points.  You should be fleeting them anyway.  With fleet and a beast charge, they get into melee quick.  And being synapse dependent, you can have them leave synapse and not have to take wounds for losing CC. 

Scything Tanlons + Rending Claws: YES this lets ravenors create havoc in a melee.  This gives the ravener the ability to take out vehicles, which mine do fairly frequently.  This upgrade had ALWAYS made its points back since I have started using it.  A strategy that goes well with this is to have 1 or 2 charge in with hormagaunts.  Your opponent has to either attack the raveners, which will mean that he loses the CC after getting rends + the sheer number of attacks of the hormagaunts.  He can also attack the hormagaunts, but that means that he keeps getting rended.

2x Scything Talons: MAYBE gives you an extra attack, but it still has the chance to be saved. If you have an army that is all about getting a ton of CC rolls, i guess you could use this bioweapon.  Also, it is going to be hard to damage vehicles if at all possible.  I would not use this.

Deathspitter: NO Shooting is not what a ravener should be doing.  They do have a BS3, but that doesn't mean anything.  Raveners should be fleeting towards the enemy and then charging them with their crazy assault range.  If you get lucky you can be in CC by turn one with these guys. 

Devourer: NO see above
Spinefists: NO see above


Sorry, i don't do math hammer so if someone want to add that go for it. 

Hope I helped
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Offline Shinguuji

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2008, 06:20:06 AM »
OP, there are a few issues that needs addressing/debating.

First is the choice of broodlord VS hive tyrant, and with VS without guards

I think the with VS without guards is more important, as the broodlord VS HT can be a new article at the end of this tactica.

Also, your entry on lictors are barebones, and people in this forum just rush forward and post the next unit. My suggestion is to consolidate all opinions of a unit into a single post(basically, edit your post to add other's opinions - the nicely written ones)6, giving credit to others, where you post their opinions, that will make using hyperlinks much easier and cleaner. I know its massive work, but I think it can be done well.

Also, lastly, a suggestion is to rate each individual unit on its own. I don't think the lictor can be taken reasonably in a competitive list, also, not every unit is useful, so a short paragraph on each units usefulness would be appreciated.

Offline coredump

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2008, 07:07:55 AM »
Shin,
Your calcs ignore the Living Ammo rule for Devourers.  You should also compare devilgaunts with Toxin Sacs, and the utility of the 18" range.
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Offline Akaiyou

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2008, 08:00:20 AM »
wow wow wow guys calm down wtf lolz we are doing 1 entry at a time, if you notice the pattern i'm following it's goin 1 entry a day! let's keep it that way for ARGUMENTS sake it's my fault for not putting a notice on it but I figured since it's been goin the same way for the past couple days ppl would just go with the flow.

Today's entry is GAUNTS.

The Hyperlinks will only be used to skip to the first post of the day discussing the current topic at hand, if i started dropping hyperlinks to every single opinion it would turn into a mess. So i'm doing it the same way that the chaos players did it.

Now please guys settle down and lets not make a mess out of the thread im also eager to skip ahead to other entries but this really works well if we take it 1 at a time. k?

With that said here goes

GAUNTS
My analysis
BIOMORPHS
Adrenal Glands (I) - NO -  Unnecessary upgrade. Gaunts should be kept as cheap as possible to make them worth taking.
Adrenal Glands (W) - NO -  same as above
Extended Carapace - NO -  This is a 'decent' upgrade if you are going to fight an army with horrible AP guns. Will improve your gaunts survivable rate in both the field and CC. However it is VERY unlikely that you'll encounter this scenario.
Flesh Hooks - MAYBE - On the same boat as EC. This upgrade is useful in engaging units hiding in cover. However most of the time your guants will be a meat shield aimed at tangling enemy units, not necessarily aimed at trying to fight to win, rather fight to stall in which case the upgrade is not really necessary. However of all Gaunt upgrades flesh hooks is the most useful.
Scuttlers - MAYBE - One more on the maybe boat. Will help get your gaunts across to enemy lines faster but costs quite a bit. You are literally paying for every inch and the costs gets very high very fast for a very very vulnerable unit. Best used on smaller broods.
Toxin Sacs - NO - As great as having higher strength sounds, because of the ridiculous vulnerability of a 6+ save, this upgrade is quite possibly the worst you could give on almost every case. It has the added bonus of making your guns even more expensive as well to boot! Yay! Your cost effectiveness will take a very steep drop, and the 'benefits' are minimal in most situations.

WEAPON SYMBIOTES
Ranged
=========
Spinefist - YES - Best balance! Is the cheapest and most cost effective in keeping balance between shooting and CC ability.
Fleshborer - MAYBE - The best all around ranged weapon for gaunts. Useful against nearly any target lucky rolls can glance AV 10 vehicles. However your cost effectiveness takes a blow in CC as you are no better than spinegaunts and cost more.
Devourer - MAYBE - Powerful but the least cost effective of the 3. This weapon is what you'd get if you combined a spinefist and fleshborer having the abilities of both in 1. (the spinefist is TL but the devourer gets 2x shots so it's pretty much the same thing) the added range makes shooting more viable as an option for gaunts.

SPECIAL RULES
Without Number - MAYBE - This special rule is a bit pricey but can be ridiculously useful depending on how you use it. The most common tactic is to slap it on and rush ahead with your gaunts soaking enemy fire and letting the other units behind these gaunts move up, get cover saves and avoid being shot alltogether. Then when the fighting up ahead gets messy these guys will re-spawn and be able to take objectives or rush forward as reinforcements. A pretty fun trick is to keep your synapse up ahead, this will cause the gaunts to go into IB and the rules indicate that they will need to FALL BACK towards the nearest synapse creature thus they'll come running FORWARD to wherever your synapse is located, this is a double-edged sword tho so play with caution. Think of this upgrade the same as having extra units in RESERVES, except that you need them to die first before you can get the reserves on the table. Kamikaze is the way to go.


Recommended Configurations To Use
GENERAL RECOMMENDATION
First understand that prior to selecting a ranged weapon the minimum squad of 8 gaunts costs 32 points total. This means that without adding anything gaunts are just as good if not BETTER in combat than Hormagaunts. ANY ranged weapon you choose will make your brood less point cost effective in CC thus making spinefist the best balanced all-round in terms of cost and results.

24 Gaunt Brood @ 120 Pts
      Spinefists


- The best choice all-round in cost effectiveness. Very cheap so you can toss them around without worrying about giving the opponents a lot of victory points. Works very well against IG, Tau and Orks. Will suffer against T4 enemies with a save better than 5+. Smaller broods are good in order to cover up more troop choices and reduce the damage of mass fire or blast weapons. However do not be shy about taking more numbers these guys are really cheap and work just as good in larger numbers even when getting pummeled by enemy fire. I recommend a squad of 8 - 24. 24 Spinegaunts can take out 2 MEQs per turn in shooting and 1.33 MEQs in CC, but their real usefulness comes from tying up enemy troops and CC which is what they end up doing most of the time. Rating 10/10

16 Gaunt Brood @ 96 Pts
      Fleshborer


- The best all-round shooting choice. Will be able to damage the widest range of enemies with the most effectiveness. It is the absolute best gun for gaunts to use against IG, Orks and MEQs. Given that MEQs are the most common type in the 40k Universe this means that Fleshborers will always give you a fighting chance against most opponents. However the downside is that you are no more effective than a spinegaunt in combat and cost more and the sad truth is that as good as your shooting is you only have 12" range at which you are more likely to engage in combat. So that most of the time you end up throwing those extra points away for a better gun that you might never even use. Take in small to midsized broods 8 to - 16 models, this will be more point effective as taking larger numbers means half your guys wont even be in range to shoot their guns which is another big waste of points. A brood of 16 fleshborers will kill 2 MEQs per turn in shooting, the same as a large brood of 24 spinegaunts and for 24 points less! However be warned that once you enter CC your well spent points go to waste in terms of cost effectiveness.Rating 8/10

14 Gaunt Brood @ 98 Pts
      Devourer


- Powerful! Strongest of the 3 ranged weapons for gaunts. Weapon of choice against TauEQ and models with T5 or T6, against other models it keeps a steady 2nd place being either as good as the spinefist or better. What you lose in strength of the gun you more than make up for with the re-rolls so do not be discouraged, plus the 18" range means that this is hands down THE gun to use if you actually want to SHOOT with your gaunts and avoid CC. In CC this is the least cost effective being just as good as a spinefist gaunt, also this does not just apply to CC this set up as a whole has a major cost efficiency flaw because the gaunts are so vulnerable to anything. But you CAN make up for it by slapping them in cover, avoiding CC and shooting anything in range. Remember these guys are NOT for CC they should be used strictly for shooting otherwise you are wasting a ridiculous amount of points. Take in small broods of 8 - 14 to make sure that the opponent doesnt put too much focus on shooting them and that they can get enough shots to damage whatever they shoot. A 14 strong brood will kill 2 MEQs per turn in shooting and costs about the same as the 16 strong group of termagaunts, thanks to the extra 6" range however these guys are more capable of making their shooting count the way it should. Rating 6/10

NOTE: You can use Killing Power Calculator to determine killing power of a unit. Do not use it for calculating rends tho as this is an old program.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 08:39:34 AM by Akaiyou »
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Offline coredump

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2008, 09:08:22 AM »
I suggest you let the current topic run until folks stop commenting. If you push through at 1/day, you will miss out on input from some folks.

Also, why did you skip FifthWind's post on gaunts for the hyperlink? It is the first on the topic.
Quote
wow wow wow guys calm down wtf lolz we are doing 1 entry at a time, if you notice the pattern i'm following it's goin 1 entry a day! let's keep it that way for ARGUMENTS sake it's my fault for not putting a notice on it but I figured since it's been goin the same way for the past couple days ppl would just go with the flow.
I think the problem is that you did not post what you wanted, and you have not been consistent, and have been changing the 'rules' as you go along.
Though it wasn't stated, it started as one entry every 2 days. Then you decided to only wait one day, and post *two* on the same day. And you made no comment when a third was also posted on that same day. Then you got upset when others wanted to start an entry before you were ready. You stated you would link to the first post, but then skipped FifthWind and Shins posts. You keep telling others to not comment on what you have written, but you keep commenting on what they write.  I am sure you have a concept in mind... but it was not communicated well, and it seems to change.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 09:31:36 AM by coredump »
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Offline FifthWindDieGermanator

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2008, 11:43:28 AM »
All I'm saying is that if you really want us to contribute, add us to the Hyperlinks, escpecially if I got to it first. ;)

And now to come back on topic:

 
Hormagaunts
[/u]

Biomorphs:
Adrenal Glands (+1 I):Maybe. If you know you are facing Marines, I would take this simply because you strike before they do! Even if you only have about 10 or so by the time you get to them, thats still 30 attacks before they can touch you! (assuming they are not in cover, but as what counts as cover has risen, that is partially what bumped it to maybe.) One point on a ten point model isn't going to hurt as bad, upgrade-wise, so I won't repeat myself with the Gaunts.
Adrenal Glands (+1WS): Maybe. Once again, you will hit better aginst MEQ's (Marine EQivelants), but you are hitting the same against GEQ's (Guardsmen EQuivelants).
Extended Carapace: No. Just like with the Gaunts, it will not be worth it, as everything out there is AP 4 or better.
Flesh Hooks:Maybe. If combined with Adrenal Glands (I), they will be able to strike at Marines in cover with no penalty. I would say if you take Flesh Hooks, take Adrenal Glands (I).
Toxin Sacs: Maybe. I might take this, as I can would MEQ's on a 4 now, and GEQ's on a 3, but the other part of me says to take more Hormagaunts. I have not tried giving my Hormagaunst Toxin Sacs, so I'm not sure which would be better. If you have a unit of 15 Hormagaunts, you gain 1.5 by not having Toxin Sacs, and 2 if you have 20 Hormagaunts. I would be inclined then to take the Toxin Sacs, as two Hormagaunts won't hold up for long.
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Offline srintuar

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2008, 04:42:11 PM »
I have to disagree with the gaunt summary.

Ive used devourer gaunts with great success: they have an 18 in range, meaning they dont have to get ridiculously close to the enemy, and they can hang out in 4+ cover forests quite easily, all while pelting the enemies with their devourers.


they provide some very welcome backup shooting, imo.

Offline Lucky_Jackal

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2008, 04:48:29 PM »
Elite Fex Weapons
My analysis
Venom Cannon On a elite fex this is a waste. For even if you got it to fit on he could not afford enhanced senses or a 2nd weapon. A BS 2 weapon will not do much. The points would be better uesed for a used for a warrior.

Also even with rending claws this weapon is too expensive to take on an elite fex and Therefore it should not even be considered for a ELITE fex.

Note:On Heavy fexs the venom cannon is a good choice vs. AV 13 and AV14. A good choice when fighting SM or Necrons. But again. On elite fexs they are a waste.

Barbed Strangler Due to the new blast rules a fex wielding just a BS is a viable option. By taking just a Barbed strangler and other rending claws or scything talons (I suggest rending claws to keep the cost down, but others prefer scything talons. Since they're in the kit/aestetics/feel at least it's an upgrade that DOES something)

With this set up you can easily take two fexs for the price of one souped-up twin-linked Barbed strangler fex. Can compliment a twin-linked Venom fex.

Sything Talons- using x2 of these you can make a "ninja fex", this is a cheap CC fex with as many biomorphs as 114 points allows. Can be quite devastating when used in numbers or when supported by zonapods.

Twin-Linked Devowers- When a fex ueses two of these and enhanced senses you got the tried and true. The fex classic, the daka fex. Hands down one of the most effective fex builds possible. With a high number of shots, re-roll to hits, and re-rolls to wound. It's a classic.

Twin-Linked Death spiters- This is a no go. Using only a small blast template, the the duel linking giving no real advantage. There is not much to gain. Deathspitters belong in the hands of warriors plain and simple. In the hands of some warriors you can put out more of these templates for no real sacrifices.

In the hands of a fex it just does not have the volume of fire to make it worth while. There are better options.

Crushing Claws- Only way it can be taken is with rending claws to fit the point limit. Due to the un-predicatable nature of crushing claws this is a big risk for little gain. Also leaves no room for bio-morphs.

Look to scything talons for a better CC option for an elite fex.

Lash Whips- Questionable. Lash whips on a fex are considered only good for character killer fexs. But for a elite fex leaves very little room for biomorphs.

I feel I can not truly give a honest option about the lash whips. But from what you gain and give up. I feel the "ninja fex" is a safer bet.

Rending Claws- A very over looked weapon for the fex. At the cheapest option for a weapon it can have a place. Since it could cheaply fill the mandatory 2 weapons for almost no cost.

But the only weapons where filling the 2nd slot is a issue is Crushing claws and Barbed Strangler. Only consider mixing with BS. Crushing claws if taken better reserved for a heavy fex.


Heavy Fex Weapons
My analysis
Venom Cannon The points cost of the venom cannon on a fex is steep. The majority of vehciles in 40k, can be handled by venom cannon warriors. This includes ALL transports, and even most tanks the venom cannon warrior is all that is needed. (Note: For some they must be hit on side or rear armor)

But some vehciles will need more then that to be dealt with. SM Land Raiders, Necron Monoliths, and IG Demolishers will need a heavy support fex venom cannon to be stunned. Therefore the choice of taking a venom cannon depends of who you regularly face and the point level of the game you're playing. Some people may even find themself NEEDING a duel linked venom cannon fex.

Choose at own discretion.

Barbed Strangler Hands down one the the best guns a fex can carry now. The only real drawback is that due to its long range it's hard to find other weapons to complement it.

Venom cannon is the best choice to go with a barbed strangler. But due to the nature of the venom cannon one can argue you "waste the shot" when the BS is shot at a vehicle so the Venom cannon can do it's work. And one can say the same about the venom cannon getting shot at infantry so the BS can do its work.

Because of this some argue that the best choice is the deathspitter so you can shoot a 2nd template, the Devourers for squad mop up, or a 2nd BS for a re-roll of the scatter die.

Which weapon you take with it counts on how you wish to use your fex.

Sything Talons- Talons- Best CC weapon for a fex. With new run rules heavy support CC fexs are more viable then ever

Twin-Linked Devourers- Even though the elite fex's weapon of choice, giving them to heavy fexs so you can take defensive biomorphs is a sound choice.

Twin-Linked Death spiters- Even on heavy fex's not a good idea. 2 small blasts when firing two of these is not going to do much. (Some suggest using one of these with a BS. See Barbed Strangler.)

Crushing Claws- For way you pay is not very reliable. You could end up with anything from 1-6 attacks. Can be fun to use in friendly games.

Lash Whips- Best for "character killer" fex's. Maybe if there is a C'tan or other MC in the army that rubs you the wrong way. Taking this with some biomorphs is a sound idea. But overly not very useful.


Rending Claws- On a heavy choice fex it's a waste of a weapon's slot. Scything talons are a slightly more expensive, but definitely better, biomorph. And when taken with a shooty fex you waste the ability for a MC to shoot two weapons a turn.

Rending claws have no place on a heavy support fex.

Fex Biomorphs
My analysis

Thornback & Symbiote rippers - No longer have a effect in the 5th edition of the game. Ignore these biomorphs.

(I) Adrenal Glands- A must for any CC fex. With this biomorph you can strike before a power fist. Witch is very important since powerfists can make your fex go squish FAST.

(WS) Adrenal Glands- For such a cheap biomorph no self respecting CC fex should forgo it.

Note: Adrenal Glands (I) and Adrenal Glands (WS), with two scything talons is the "Ninja Fex" (Or as some call the "Screamer Killer"), this is one of the simplest and most effective way to set up a CC fex.

Toxic Misma - When combined with (WS) Adrenal Glands, equates to a +2 WS for your fex.

Acid Maw- Useful biomorph, though it only works on the charge keep in mind. It can help clear your way threw units that would normal hurt or hold up your fex.

In the end a safe choice in CC biomorph.

Tusked - Complements Acid Maw very nicely, since both work on the charge. More attacks are also always handy when your a CC fex.

Implant Attack - Useful in some circumstances. Invaluable ageist muti wound specialists, characters, etc. But USELESS against your bog standard infantry. Counts on what armies you usually fight and what enemies you struggle against.

Flesh Hooks For one point you get FRAG GRENADES and you can CLIMB UP WALLS. For just one point that's a steal!

Tail sything & mace come into play not very often. If you're that swamped you're most likely dead. (I feel you can only consider takeing it in Apoc)

Enhanced senses A MUST for shoot fex's.

Toxic Sacs due to most weapons max strength rules. the toxic sacks only come into play for CC fexs.

For a CC fex not a bad idea.

Spore cysts No go. They can get your fex killed, as they might cause a wound when spawning. And if the enemy was to shoot the mine it could explode and hurt the fex.

Horrible choice.

Spine banks They allow you to shoot spine fists along with your normal 2 weapons. Being a cheep upgrade I would suggest it for any fex that will be getting "up close and personal".

Good for a "daka fex" (2 twin linked Devourers), or a CC fex. May be VERY handy since in the new SM dex, Marines can break away from close combats. There for letting you shoot them in the back next turn as they run. (That's if you survive there rapid fire next round.)

Reinforced Chitin One extra wound for a reasonable price. Hands down on of the best upgrades. Also the cheapest defensive morph.

Regeneration Doesn't live up to the hype. Some swear by it, but for its price its reliability is questionable.

Extended Carapace I will not comment on it. Just know many live and die by it. Being one of the more expensive defensive morphs some go with out. I'd say this is your call. Taking or not taking it can count heavily on the point limit you are playing. Not to mention how many AP 2 and 3 weapons you see.

Bonded Exoskeleton Another live or die by it biomorph. Count on who you usually fight and personal preferences.

Bio-Plasma That one extra high I attack seems very tempting in 5th edition. I would consider it for a CC fex. Though I may be missing something in the new assault and CC rules and could be terribly wrong.



hope this helps people out, and I was able to watch my spelling. I usually try to avoid making large posts due to my bad spelling and the typo here and there. (which come out more I have to type.) I know I struggle with it.

=(

Edit: I'd like to thank Mockingbird for just comeing out of the blue and takeing the time to spell check my whole post for this topic. I was blowen away! I would just like to publicly thanks him for takeing HIS time to do that. Not asked or anything! A great guy he is.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 06:34:36 PM by Lucky_Jackal »

Offline coredump

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2008, 04:51:45 PM »
All I'm saying is that if you really want us to contribute, add us to the Hyperlinks, escpecially if I got to it first. ;)
That is what keeps me from adding in. The OP seems more intent on pushing his agenda, and changing definitions/rules to suit them, rather than working with others to create a useful document.

And while I don't pretend to speak for Lonewolf, I believe the 'off topic' he was referring to was not discussion of the thread, but things like bragging about never buying any books, and downloading them all instead.
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RAW is used by people who want rules to mean what they want it to instead of what it says in the book.
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Offline srintuar

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2008, 05:15:57 PM »
Quote

Spine banks You can only shoot 2 guns at a time. If your 2 weapon slots have been filled making a duel linked weapon (Like Duel linked venom cannon, Duel linked BS) then these can come into play. But due to there shot range it's still almost a waste.


Not quite right: spine banks are a bonus in addition to any other shooting.
So they arent affected by the limit of 2 shots.

Offline Lord Alliben

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2008, 05:24:22 PM »
Spine banks You can only shoot 2 guns at a time. If your 2 weapon slots have been filled making a duel linked weapon (Like Duel linked venom cannon, Duel linked BS) then these can come into play. But due to there shot range it's still almost a waste.

Dangit, srintuar, you beat me to it! Oh well.

I'd say Spine Banks are a viable option when just filling points. You never know when that re-rollable couple of shots will come in handy to take out a pesky skimmer or whatever, especially coming from a close combat fex. Not a guarantee for anything but with it's cheap point cost who expects it to be a guarantee for anything anyway? I'd say definitely consider it. I have immense fun with Spine Banks.

Not quite right: spine banks are a bonus in addition to any other shooting.
So they arent affected by the limit of 2 shots.


Offline Lucky_Jackal

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2008, 05:29:37 PM »
I re-read spin banks. You sirs are correct. XD

I guess I always think "count as spine fists", and forgot there was a blurb on the end.
=)

Now that I know that I acculy see this as being very useful. defently when the new marein dex comes out.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 05:39:40 PM by Lucky_Jackal »

Offline Zilverscale

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2008, 07:35:52 PM »
It is actually also a real good biomorph to give to dakka fexes as they'll be handing out even more shots ;)

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Shinguuji

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2008, 10:24:59 PM »
All I'm saying is that if you really want us to contribute, add us to the Hyperlinks, escpecially if I got to it first. ;)
That is what keeps me from adding in. The OP seems more intent on pushing his agenda, and changing definitions/rules to suit them, rather than working with others to create a useful document.

And while I don't pretend to speak for Lonewolf, I believe the 'off topic' he was referring to was not discussion of the thread, but things like bragging about never buying any books, and downloading them all instead.

Maybe he should have just made a giant tactica on his own without wasting our time and resources typing. Can you or 5thwind create another thread which is proper and has people contributing well? We'll just copy and paste all our entries here over there. I don't know how to hyperlink, so I'm asking you two

Offline Lucky_Jackal

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2008, 10:34:55 PM »
All I'm saying is that if you really want us to contribute, add us to the Hyperlinks, escpecially if I got to it first. ;)
That is what keeps me from adding in. The OP seems more intent on pushing his agenda, and changing definitions/rules to suit them, rather than working with others to create a useful document.

And while I don't pretend to speak for Lonewolf, I believe the 'off topic' he was referring to was not discussion of the thread, but things like bragging about never buying any books, and downloading them all instead.

Maybe he should have just made a giant tactica on his own without wasting our time and resources typing. Can you or 5thwind create another thread which is proper and has people contributing well? We'll just copy and paste all our entries here over there. I don't know how to hyperlink, so I'm asking you two

I am inclined to agree.

Offline Zilverscale

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2008, 11:09:03 PM »
Especially cause this thread is becomming to winding for a true tactica thread.

To much reading...

Just as much posts as there are unit entries and people can add to it and the original poster copy paste the added tactical info into the original post for the unit entry?

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Lonewolf

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2008, 03:09:21 AM »
Fithwindlegion has asked me, if he could create a more organised tactica thread and i have agreed, since this thread here is becoming increasingly difficult to follow. As soon as the new thread takes off, i will lock this one.


No problem, I'll give you a 100% increase in pay effective immediately and retroactive to 1999.

Offline Akaiyou

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Re: [5th] A Tactical Discussion About Tyranids
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2008, 08:24:03 AM »
Fithwindlegion has asked me, if he could create a more organised tactica thread and i have agreed, since this thread here is becoming increasingly difficult to follow. As soon as the new thread takes off, i will lock this one.

That's fine with me as well, the lack of common sense astounds me here.
"Let's analize one entry at a time" was my original posting dunno what part of that couldn't be followed sadly. So do feel free to re-post in an ordered fashion.

Also I'd like to give you guys the WEBLINK to the thread that inspired me to pursue this daunting task, a thread which I feel came out very very organized http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=148628.0

Do have a look! Notice the 'Hyperlinks' you all beg for so much only point to the start of the subject then you scroll down and read more on the subject. I think that should be the correct format to follow because adding a hyperlink for every single review would just be confusing so don't toss in more than necessary.

And copy and pasting every review into one giant review is also a bad idea because then he post becomes enormous and a pain to read. People get more put off by 1 post that includes 5 long reviews, than by scrolling down and reading the 5 reviews individually.

All I ask is for us to use common sense and do this well. Can we all agree?
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