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Author Topic: Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!  (Read 1613 times)

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Offline Lyonic

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Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!
« on: July 7, 2015, 10:11:13 AM »
Hey everyone! This is my first post as I have just discovered this website. I have been playing 40k for 3 months now and the army I chose was Eldar. I started off playing Footdar and have ammased a lot of models. After some tough games I decided to invest in some Armour, jetbikes, and wraith constructs. This took my army to a whole new level of Strength. I have recently played this list in a Tournament where I won every game.

Windrider Host
Farseer Skyrunner
Warlock Skyrunner
Windriders x3 + Shuriken Cannons
Windriders x3 + Shuriken Cannons
Windriders x3 + Shuriken Cannons
Vyper

Wraith Host
Spiritseer
Wraithguard x5 D-Scythes
Waveserpent
Wraithguard x5
Waveserpent + Twin-Linked Star Cannon
Wraithguard x5
Waveserpent + Twin Linked Star Cannon
Wraithlord + Dual Flamers + Dual Star Cannons + Ghostglaive
Wraithknight + Ghostglaive & Scattershield


By taking this list I get a whole bunch of Eldar Trickery that has allowed me to Dominate. Rules removed.

What this means. Start of the game, Waveserpent moves 6" spinning round ready to disembark. Wraithguard jump out 6" from the rear hatch towards the enemy. I then battlefocus my wraithguard forward. Any enemy unit that is set up along the edge of their deployment line are now going to get hit with 10 twin linked D-cannon shots, and 5 D-Scythes. This tactic has allowed me to kill a scary amount of mondels. It gives the wraithguard with D-cannons a 30" threat bubble and the flameguard a 26" threat range.

My jetbikes then follow up the initial wraithguard assault with 27 Shuriken Cannon shots that re-roll to wound. The viper adds his tax shots too, with Shred. The waveserpents fire too adding some high strength low AP starcannon shots and another shuriken cannon... all twin linked. My wraithlord adds in his dual starcannon shots.

This is a lot of firepower for any army to deal with, the next turn the Wraithknight is in charge range of units and all the waveserpents turn to face the enemy and deliver their serpent shields too. Turn 3 sees my Wraithlord in range to deal additional damage.

It is true that I lack dedicated anti-air however, I have played games with 3 flying tyrants and other games with lots of air. The sheer volume of fire allows me to take them down. Rolling on the D-table really does down flyers.

Would love to know what you think of this list!

Welcome to the forum :).  Please be aware that I have had to edit your post to comply with GW's policy on copyright (see forum rule 1 for further details).  Also remember that anyone giving you good quality army list advice is likely to have a copy of the Eldar codex, so it's not necessary to write out all the rules in any case ;) - Iris.
« Last Edit: July 7, 2015, 10:22:18 AM by Irisado »

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!
« Reply #1 on: July 7, 2015, 10:37:40 AM »
Yep. It's a tournament list. ;)

On a more serious note,  welcome to the forums.  Eldar are a ton of fun for both casual and competitive games. 

Your list seems reasonably good to me.  You have a lot of hard hitting, survivable units with enough mobility to get where you need to go.  It occurs to me that your list might benefit form some slight tweaks depending on the type of games you play.  Are you the sort of player that exclusively plays tournament and competitive pickup games, or do you also play more casual games?  For tournament games,  you may want to swap out your shuriken cannons for scatter lasers.  Yes, you give up the benefits of the windrider host, but the increased number of shots will make you more effective against vehicles and most non-vehicles.  It also lets you stay further away with your bikes and thus hide them from return fire more easily.  You give up bladestorm, but the star cannons on your serpents help offset that. 

For more casual games,  I feel I ought to point out that a lot of more casual players might give you dirty looks for using d-scythes, a wraith knight, and jetbikes (even if you're giving them shuriken cannons instead of the more infamous scatter lasers).  That's not a shot at you for having relatively competitive units, but it might be very difficult for you to have a good friendly matchup against a player with a less competitive army. 

Your waveserpent rush tactic takes good advantage of the craftworld war host benefits, but turning your rear armor towards the enemy like that leaves you exposed to some pretty nasty return fire, and your tactic doesn't work if your opponent is wise enough to scoot back when deploying.  That said, your unit selection is solid and versatile, so all you wouldneed to do to adapt if your tactic doesn't work is to take a more conventional approach on turn 1.

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!
« Reply #2 on: July 7, 2015, 11:01:53 AM »
Well...  that's what i would have bbring to a tournament if I ever wanted to enter one :D So well done on this.

Welcome to the forum, and because i'm an annyoing little idiot let me say I totally disagree with everything wildhunt said regarding the weapon load out >< I'm a shurican/starcanon worshipper rather than the scatter. That's a debat i don't want to start here so i will refrain from further comment on the subject. Let me just say I think it's pretty hazardous to throw away the shread because it can be really usefull vs quite a few number of target.

But i will have to agree with him i hope you have a more friendly list on the side because you will never play friendly game without getting trashtalked with this kind of list. It's a well built list that play on everystrenght our book have, in that regard i drop you the hat. but for friendly and fun, you can put those word inside a box and throw it to the ocean, unless you oppponnents have a monstruously well thought lis0t, he will have some real hard time with them so, no fun for him (unless he really loves challenge).

There is perhaps one tweak i would try out some time on your list. It's a rather bold move but could help protecting some victory points, put the spiritseer with a wraith axe unit. they are really hard to kill and will be a pretty good adtion to your list, if you make the spirit seer your warlord, they will soak up the fire power for him and you will be able to protect those slay the warlord point. And your list will feel a bit less dirty >< perhaps it will also lose a lot in offencive capability.

But the seprent tactics i will follow wildhunt. It's ratther dangerous things to do. Perhaps you will want to revise this a bit with somthing like a side show rather than a complete rear side to the enemy. I can understand what you do there thought because they did there job the moment they deliver your guards.

I don't think i can be much help to you regarding competitive play thought as I only play play casual game.

So once again welcome :D and glad to see a new tournament player around, it always give a nice different view from casual player or old school player. Perhaps i would like to see some pick of your army if possible. Just to see how it looks on the table^^
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Offline Rx8Speed

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Re: Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!
« Reply #3 on: July 7, 2015, 01:03:24 PM »
I a wyldhunt about swapping the shuriken cannons for scatter lasers.
Against meqs the shuriken cannon is SLIGHTLY better than the scatter laser 0.777777/0.9 dead meqs vs 0.74. But against light vehicles it is definitely not better since neither bladestorm nor shred has any effect. The range should also be considered since it gives you much more flexibility

Offline Lyonic

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Re: Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!
« Reply #4 on: July 7, 2015, 03:49:56 PM »
Thanks for the fantastic replies! I really have spent hundreds of hours already trawling my way through pages and pages of forums reading about the Eldar. I have also watched a lot of batreps and video discussion too. I am one of those people who could sit and talk about Eldar all day and never get bored :P

In order.
Wyldhunt, I hear you about the scatter lasers. Truth be told I know the Scatter Lasers are better than the Shuriken Cannons in a lot of situations however in my formation it happens to be slightly better to take the shuriken. Let me show you what I mean,

_____Scatbikes____S hredbikes_____Forma tion Ability (Shred)   
HITS__23.76________ 17.82   
t8____3.96_________ _2.97___________5.4 45000005
t7____7.92_________ _5.94____________9. 899999996
t6____11.88________ 8.91_____________13 .365
t5____15.84________ _11.88____________1 5.84
t4_____19.8________ _14.85____________1 7.49

As you can see with my crude diagram, although the Scatterbikes get more hits and wounds normally, with my SHRED ability I get a lot of higher toughness wounds and it only changes at t4. Also take into account that a lot of my wounds will be coming with a 'low AP' able to bypass any armour.

In regards to why I turn my waveserpents around, its purely for max range at the start. Although my rear is exposed, if they want to shoot my tank 1st turn I invite them to. Because with 15 wraithguard on them, 9 jetbikes, a wraithlord and wraithknight closing in... shooting the tank should be the least of their troubles :P

If I don't get to use my turn 1 trickery, its no big deal as it is quite a survivable list and it benefits well from things like invisibility our shrouding.

Thanks for your Great comments Wyldhunt. Keep them coming!

Grizzlykin, nice to meet you! I will say I feel the wraithblades are very below par in terms of being able to do much. They are tough little units though! with some psychic conceals, in cover, great toughness and maybe a sneaky 'protect/jink' if the dice gods are on your side... I wouldn't want to engage them in combat. I just feel for my current tourney list that D-Scythes offer more. Being able to take off 600 points of someones command list from 1 unit firing is just... satisfying :)

Hey Rx8 speed, I am totally with you on the range thing. My background is mainly in computer games where I excel at kiting.(keep enemy at range while you beat on them). Check out my little diagram thing above regarding the scatter laser shenanigans.

====================

Just a quick response also about 'do I have another list?'. When I first started I was playing footdar and still have a lot of models left over. I do play more friendly games as not everyone wants to play with overpowered units :P

Here is a quick list of what I have at the moment:
Guardians x60 + 4 Platforms
Dire Avengers x15 + 3 Exarchs
Windriders x9
Fire Dragons x20 + 2 Exarchs
Striking Scorpions x 21 + 3 Exarchs
Wraithguard x20
Vyper x4
War Walkers x3
D-cannon Platform x3
Wraithlord
Wraithknight
Waveserpent x3
Eldrad
Jain-Zar
Karandras
Magun-Ra
Illic Nightspear
Farseer
Farseer Skyrunner
Warlock Skyrunner
Warlocks x10
Aegis defence line

I think that's everything. I love using guardians as I feel they are the most underrated troops in 40K. I have tried out every combination and am looking to stock up on some more aspects like swooping hawks and dark reapers in the future.

Thanks again for the warm welcome, its nice to know atleast here, playing Eldar does not make you scum :P




Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!
« Reply #5 on: July 7, 2015, 05:18:49 PM »
Well perhaps it's because at the moment i think +/-70% of the people here are playing, played eldar or have a friend playing eldar close by. That's why on this particular forum you will surely be criticise about the tourni list (if you play it in casual as well), but you not be labelled as scum. The forum was eldar online at the beginning aswell if i'm not mistaken.

I agree with the wraith blades being totally less powerfull but for tanking up dammage i think that's one of the best unit in our book.

You said you've been playing for 3 month? Am I the only one to think your collection is monstruously big already! Not that it's a bad things but i'm impressed by how many things you bought in such a short time.

That's not the topic here but i would gladly speak with you about the guardians, I have yet to figure out how to use them efficiently.

Oh and glad to know you aswell :D
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Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 11:58:35 AM »


You said you've been playing for 3 month? Am I the only one to think your collection is monstruously big already! Not that it's a bad things but i'm impressed by how many things you bought in such a short time.


It really varies, Grizz.  I have a regular opponent that started playing about a year ago and has 4,000 points of orks.  Maybe more like 5,000 with his recent superheavy conversions. 

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 04:45:30 PM »
Well ok i remeber a friend buying for 600 euros of tyranide and ork in one go at some point. Student budget really limits my purchase and the fact that i don't want to buy more until things get painted either ><
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ALL HAIL THE TORNADO! The legend is REBORN.

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Offline Lyonic

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Re: Eldar 1850 - Advice Needed!
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2015, 01:12:20 AM »
Okay so something came up recently with this list and i would like opinions. I can tale off every extra spending on extras and add Eldrad to the list. He would go in a serpent with the spiritseer and 5 wguard.


i would lose: 9 shuriken cannons, 2 twin linked star cannons, 2 star cannons and a ghostglaive on wlord and the 1 u it of dscythes go back to cannons.

i gain: 9 twin linked catapults on bikes, 2 twin linked shuricannons on the serpents and eldrad.

eldrad gives me d3 scout (with this list.... Think about it). It means All 15 wguard get to reroll now. I also get 4 more psychic dice, more powers etc. I just need to decide indepth tactics on psychic table priority and order. Since its random in going to write multiple flow charts for tourneys so i don't forget.


the whole reason for taking eldrad is for scout mainly but also when my wguard disembark i will be buffing or witchfiring like crazy. I feel with the far seer and warlock on bikes too, they can add support.  I have 4, 3, 2, dice to get invisibility. Would rather now have it on SS due to lack of ghosthelm or runes of seer.

 


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