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Offline Bannok

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1500 points newbie list
« on: December 24, 2011, 01:20:54 PM »
Hey guys in thinking of picking up Eldar as my next army and wanted to get thoughts on this list?

I'm not sure what works with eldar do just sort of grabbed what I thought was cool haha :)

I have 35 points left over.

Quote
Eldar - 1500

HQ: 206
Farseer - Singing Spear - Doom - Runes of Warding - Runes of Witnessing - 103

Farseer - Singing Spear - Doom - Runes of Warding - Runes of Witnessing - 103

Troops: 604
Dire Avengers - Exarch - Dire Sword - Bladestorm - 157
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Bright Lances - 145

Dire Avengers - Exarch - Dire Sword - Bladestorm - 157
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Bright Lances - 145

Elites: 214
Howling Banshees - Exarch - Mirror Swords - Acrobatic - 107

Howling Banshees - Exarch - Mirror Swords - Acrobatic - 107

Heavy Support: 310
Falcon - Spirit Stones - Bright Lance - 155

Falcon - Spirit Stones - Bright Lance - 155
If a Farseer can truly predict their varied deaths. Would they not simply pick the one that appeals to them the most?

Offline felixander

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2011, 07:18:48 PM »
I think you are overloading squads (though both Banshees and DA definitely benefit a lot from 10/10) and giving transports to the wrong units. The Banshees could really use a transport and personally I'd find a way to slip in 5 DA and hide them in one of the Falcons to make it a scoring unit, something you really need at least one more of, then give that Falcon an EML instead so that it can move 12" to cover/contest objectives and still fire the Pulse Laser, Plasma Missile, and (if you're targeting something close enough) Shuriken catapults while still giving you a good move distance and Tank Shock space. Don't underestimate Fire Dragons, they are much more than just anti-tank and other players seem to forget that. I frequently will surprise players by popping out my FDs on MEQ/Heavy Infantry Squads and decimating them. The other thing to remember is that Eldar Heavy Support Choices are awesome and at 1500 and above I would usually consider maxing out your options. For another 180 points you can get 3 War Walkers with Scatter Lasers to pop out 24 S6 shots. Decimates hordes, light transports, and with that many shots you are likely to even take out some Terms/2+ Save (I believe it'd be an average of 2 per salvo).
3000 Eldar
3000 Imperial Guard
1500 Orks

Offline Thiassi

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2011, 07:19:17 PM »
Firstly you won't get any benefit out of 2 Runes of Warding, unless the Farseer with the Runes gets toasted I guess.

Secondly the Diresword option on the Dire Avenger Exarch is considered the worst choice. It is unlikely to ever do anything and generaly the PW / SS combo is taken for DAs  that will be used as a tarpit and the Twin Shuri Cats are taken by shooty DAs. Bladestorm however is excellent as is their transport. Overall I would suggest swapping out for the twin Shuri Cats.

Howling Banshees I assume are going in the Falcons. These are generaly a bit underpowered at 5 models and idealy you have the full 10. Also the Executioner is thought to be better than the mirror swords by a little as the girls realy lack some strength, Doom however helps to compensate.

You have a lot of Bright Lances. I have found that lances are very one dimensional. They are specialised for those higher than fair armour values but due to their low fire rate are not much good at anything else. For this reason I like to take the EML on Falcons. This gives you the option of firing an anti infantry blast or an anti tank shot. Also the longer range of the missle allows your Pulse Laser and EML to snipe away at long range. Using a Falcon like this however, you wouldn't want to be transporting a CC unit.

I guess you could swap out 1 Falcon for another Serpent. Pack that Sepent with all 10 Banshees and get some War Walkers with any points leftover, they are awsome.!

Offline felixander

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2011, 12:03:19 AM »
When I replied I was in a hurry and it seems like I missed a lot of key points, which Thiassi hit. Here is my modified list that is as close to what you had as I believe to be effective.

Eldar - 1500

HQ: 286
Farseer - Singing Spear - Guide - Runes of Warding - 93 (Rides in Falcon to Guide either the Falcon for AntiTank or the war walkers for AntiInfantry/Light Transports)

Farseer - Singing Spear - Doom -  Runes of Witnessing - 93 (Rides in Howling Banshee's Wave Serpent, but will not depart with them, he can depart seperatly and shoot at a tank if need be)

Troops: 629
10 Dire Avengers - Exarch - Double Avenger Shuriken Catapults- Bladestorm - 152 (Shooty/Objective)
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Bright Lances - 145

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch - Power Weapon/Shimmershield - Defend - 162 (TARPIT)
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Shuriken Cannon - 110

5 Dire Avengers - 60 (In the Falcon that stays back as objective nabber)

Elites: 292
10 Howling Banshees - Exarch - Executioner - 182
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Shuriken Cannon - 110

Heavy Support: 290
Falcon - Eldar Missile Launcher -  HoloFields - 170
2 War Walkers - Scatter Laser - Scatter Laser 120

It is lacking some Anti-Tank, which the Falcon will cover and the Wave Serpent with TL Bright Lances will help out, but will mostly be used as a scoring unit/fire power delivery depending on what is needed (Treasure that and use it wisely, as it is rare you'll find an Eldar unit that will fill multiple roles!). I would also consider - Cutting the shooty Dire Avengers down to 9 to give the Falcon Spirit Stones, with HoloFields this has saved me many times. The ability to move out of an enemy's view or at least into cover (even if just moving flat out) will help you immensely, but also allows you to keep Tank Shocking/Ramming (which has surprised many enemies and has been effective to me). Holofields makes the Falcon a very good Fire Power sponge (Had one take 4 rounds of Hammerheads once as I smashed around the battlefield with it). Holofields/Spirit Stones are almost a necessity on Falcons in my opinion. Hopefully this helped more than my previous quick post!
3000 Eldar
3000 Imperial Guard
1500 Orks

Offline Bannok

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 06:47:11 AM »
I like your list but im not really interested in war walkers sorry I just dont like the look if them I'm sure they're amazing units but theyre just "eh" for me maybe get like a Yriel special character to go with the banshees Or striking scorpions though I'd like mauve a fire prism?
If a Farseer can truly predict their varied deaths. Would they not simply pick the one that appeals to them the most?

Offline felixander

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 09:19:37 AM »
Definitely man, never play something you don't want to just because some one told you to! A Fire Prism would be a perfect thing to slip in there! And to make it even better I realized I messed up the math... the HQ is 186, not 286 so you have another 240 points to jump in if you take out the walkers! So you could even put in TWO Fire Prisms. Fire Prisms work great in pairs since you can get double small blasts to nuke Terminators (or vehicles) with a small blast, slaughter Space Marines or other guys with armor 3+ from a Large blast template (linked).
3000 Eldar
3000 Imperial Guard
1500 Orks

Offline Bannok

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 10:33:15 AM »
Would I want to upgrade them at all?

Quote
Eldar - 1500

HQ: 186
Farseer - Singing Spear - Guide - Runes of Warding - 93 (Rides in Falcon to Guide either the Falcon for AntiTank or the war walkers for AntiInfantry/Light Transport)

Farseer - Singing Spear - Doom -  Runes of Witnessing - 93 (Rides in Howling Banshee's Wave Serpent, but will not depart with them, he can depart seperatly and shoot at a tank if need be)

Troops: 629
10 Dire Avengers - Exarch - Double Avenger Shuriken Catapults- Bladestorm - 152 (Shooty/Objective)
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Bright Lances - 145

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch - Power Weapon/Shimmershield - Defend - 162 (TARPIT)
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Shuriken Cannon - 110

5 Dire Avengers - 60 (In the Falcon that stays back as objective nabber)

Elites: 292
10 Howling Banshees - Exarch - Executioner - 182
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Shuriken Cannon - 110

Heavy Support: 400
Falcon - Eldar Missile Launcher -  HoloFields - 170
Fire Prism - 115
Fire Prism - 115

1507 is total
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 10:38:01 AM by Bannok »
If a Farseer can truly predict their varied deaths. Would they not simply pick the one that appeals to them the most?

Offline felixander

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 12:19:23 PM »
Well you WANT to upgrade them but don't seem to have the points =P
You could switch the Bright Lance on the Wave Serpent (for the Dire Avengers) to an Eldar Missile Launcer, which'll give you those 10 points you need.
The other option is to take the squad of shooty Dire Avengers down to 9, which'll leave you with 5 extra points. (Personally I'd take this one)(You can take out Melee if you find out they are not being used as much. But I'd leave them in to keep a unit stuck longer in your tarpit)

OR instead of double Fire Prisms you could get another Wave Serpent with 8 Fire Dragons, but I would go with the Fire Prisms.
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1500 Orks

Offline Aireoth

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 12:54:09 PM »
Dire Avengers - Great unit, love them with blade storm, I find them swappable with Storm Guardians depending on the field (amount of cover) and enemy (GEQ or MEQ)

Banshees - Never had resounding success with them, the lack of assault vehicle has always been my main problem, anyone that knows Eldar can easily avoid or set up the Banshee Serpent. Having said all that, never had resounding failure with them either just middle of the road.

Prisms - Almost too much scatter these days, and easily too much cover, makes them unreliable imho, they can't tank hunt easily because of scatter, and the small blast is too easy to miss 2+ save units (and with SS/TH or cover, its almost blah). I love the models, and they are still a decent tank, just not as decent. I usually prefer putting more serpents on the field.

Bright Lances - Never work for me, too expensive, only marginal effectiveness (worse then a las on AV12, equal on AV13, and 1 better on AV14) BS 3 ruins them, take EML's instead, same strength, only a little less effectiveness, and better point cost. However if you do this, you need Dragons to take on high armor targets.

My opinion, drop the prisms (even potentially the falcon) and put in 5-6 man squads of dragons in serpents, better all around unit. MC's, FNP and Tanks fear the Dragons. The number of serpents on the field will make it hard for your opponent to pick targets, just try to get a squad of avengers deployed someplace nice early in the game to give them even more targets to worry about.

Best Weapons: EML's and Scatter Lasers are easily the best bang for your buck in the dex, Shuri Cannons can be great, but the 24" range means more finesse, so I don't usually recommend them until you have some experience with the army.

Best Unit: The winner is almost always Dragons, an entire squad of melta weapons and cheap. They do usually die the turn after deployment unless you deploy late or in a covered position, but used well they will always return point cost before death.





« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 12:59:21 PM by Aireoth »
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Offline felixander

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 01:11:16 PM »
Prisms are definitely something that you need to be careful with, but if you position them properly they shouldn't have much trouble hitting enemies who aren't in cover. I guess it depends on the maps you play but I rarely have trouble getting a shot in without worrying about cover. If one prism has no options move it so that it can see the other prism and use it as a contributor.

Banshees are something I haven't gotten to use yet but I've hear great things about them mixed with the doom seer. As far as enemies avoiding them if you're sending it out on it's own of course it's not going to do well, you need to be able to herd the enemies in with a second squad (like the tarpit he has) to be effective. Also if you move flat out and then not move the next turn they do have a 15-20" assault range if you position them properly out of the back hatch.

Guess it all comes down to how you play, I based my suggestions around what he had rather than completely changing his list. No one likes cookie cutter lists!
3000 Eldar
3000 Imperial Guard
1500 Orks

Offline Aireoth

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 01:24:52 PM »
As he is new, I just pointed out what units are effective and which aren't (as effective, everything works when played right, even the pathetic Swooping Hawks). Prism's are too hit and miss without knowing what your doing, and cover saves are just too easy to find in 5ed (even checkering units, though only one gets a save), and they are a target due to their weapon, making it easy to permi shake them (almost everyone in my FLGS comes anti-vehicle heavy) and Autocannons are the bane of an Eldar Mech list (so watch out!).

That being said my list is dramatically different then this, I've played the Prism/falcon list and the serpent spam list over the last two years. Currently I am having tons of fun with a different list at 2k.

Avatar
Farseer (Eldrad)
10 Guardians Scatter
10 Guardians Scatter
10 Storm Guard, Warlock & Serpent (Scatter)
10 Storm Guard, Warlock & Serpent (Scatter)
5 Wraith Guard, Spirit Seer & Serpent (EML & Underslung)
6 Dragons, Serpent (EML & Underslung)
3 x Wraith Lords (EML & Sword)

I then play around with a few units to mix it up, a lone Vyper has always been a fun one for me, no one shoots it because it sucks, and thus it kills lots of units.
Guardians hold my objective, storm assault theirs, Guard provide a mobile tarpit/heavy hunter, dragons hold back until late game, then I charge in and pop something nasty. Wraithlords and Avatar soak damage (hence the need for Eldrad).

I am under the impression that Bannok hasn't bought anything yet, so needs to know about the units themselves.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 01:29:02 PM by Aireoth »
W/L/D
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Offline felixander

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 03:11:36 PM »
I am under the impression that Bannok hasn't bought anything yet, so needs to know about the units themselves.

If that's true and you're flexible with what you wanna buy let us know because if so I'll throw in my current list too D=

And Aireoth I end up playing DE a lot so I have never used a Wraithlord, how have they been working out for you? I feel like I would have trouble getting them in close enough to use doubleflamer/melee
3000 Eldar
3000 Imperial Guard
1500 Orks

Offline Aireoth

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2011, 04:04:16 PM »
I wouldn't field them in less then two, but three is great.

They have a good range of tactical flexibility, I magnetize so I can swap weapons as well. I have found that fortune is a must, and finding that cover is almost as important, but when done right, they are nigh untouchable and more importantly draw heavy weapon fire away from my army. They can soak up a good number of hits if positioned right, leaving your army untouched. I always dual flamer.

My main strategy revolves around saturating my opponent with choices, so he/she makes more mistakes that I can capitalize on.

What has worked for me (rated out of ten):
EML/BL combo (6/10): This combo can threaten any vehicle on the field, but I find its expensive, hard to guide and fortune effectively, which leaves them either shooting well, or soaking well. I don't field them like this often unless I am up against an all mech list.
EML/Sword (9/10): Brilliant, cheap, and they can threaten anything other then the toughest of targets. It doesn't hurt to much when you lose one, and they don't get stuck as easily in CC rerolling the misses. I find this configuration also makes them slightly less of a target, so they fit well into my saturation plan. You shoot them and you might take out an EML, you don't shoot them and you'll have a monster in your face that most squads can't even hurt in CC.
Scatter/Sword (7.5/10): A good unit, great if your against mainly troops. I find that the EML can almost be as effective against troops with the blast template but the Scatter can glance/pen some vehicles as well.

The list works best with the Avatar as well, you can leave him back to support the guardians and counter attack enemy units (which lets you use his fearless bubble) or you can charge him forward with the Wraiths to create an amazing wall of death.

Of course, nothing works 100% of the time, but I am having fun with this army and people fear the big creatures more then the serpents.
W/L/D
52/24/8

Offline Joshisawesome

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Re: 1500 points newbie list
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 03:49:02 AM »
Hey Bannok,
From Experience, War Walkers are incredible, but I didn't like them either when I started, it took me until recently to use them, and since I started, they've been the star of every game. So, I'd advise you to consider them regularly, even if you don't take them, maybe someday you'll turn around and see them for the kickass everything killer they are...

Also, my experience with Banshees is similar, if they're unsupported and placed badly they'll really hurt, but even then I've had them do some decent killing, but determining exactly where and when you'll drop them from transports is important, or else they'll all die... and it won't be pretty...

I agree with the Heavy support comments though, they're always my strongest and most expensive section, with Reapers, Falcons, Walkers and Wraithlords often comprising most of my army.
I haven't had a whole lot of success with Wraithlords though... but I'll take your advice into account Aireoth

 


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