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Author Topic: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?  (Read 4910 times)

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Offline Wyddr

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Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« on: May 25, 2015, 01:02:18 PM »
So, some sketchy rumors are floating about.

Stuff I Like:

1) *slightly* cheaper tac marines. As a guy who loves Tac Marines, any discounts are welcome.

2) Predators in Squadrons: this makes them pretty damned attractive now, honestly.

3) The command tanks sound kinda cool (especially the Rhino), but if the Rhino variant doesn't come up-armored in some capacity, I'm not sure how useful it will be--an easy and important Kill Point.

Stuff I Hope For:

1) I think Terminators deserve a (modest) point decrease, given how difficult they are to use these days. That might not happen just because their problem is more a result of the metagame than the game itself.

2) I want access to a more badass Chaplain (and not a special character).

3) Everybody else is getting one, so I think the Marines deserve some kind of super-heavy or, at least, a super-heavy killer. Taking down Knights and Wraithkinghts and so on is a be-atch for the marines these days. 

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2015, 03:51:35 PM »
Well i'm sorry i'm not a marine power so the only things I hope for is them not getting too powerfull...  I mean i want to be able to play my space elves without seeing marine destroying me like it was nothing. Wich I fear might happen... kinda guts feeling you know.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2015, 04:28:17 PM »
I really can't see them dropping the points of Tactical Marines.  I mean, if they do, can you imagine the uproar that will be heard from the CSM players?  Same cost as their basic marine, but including ATSKNF.  If they did drop the points, they would have to give CSM something to compensate.  I'm completely fine with marines costing as much as they do now.  I do agree on the wishlist about cheaper Terminators; although, that may have to do with the fact that I have over 40 of them...

One thing I am pleased to see is that the Dark Angels are coming after C:SM this time.  With the way they have been releasing the marines, it has always felt like the Dark Angels are the prototype codex for Vanilla marines.  They were released last in 4th edition before C:SM got their codex in 5th, where they took the rules from C:DA and made them better.  They were released in 6th ed first and then C:SM got better rules when released after.  Maybe this time the Dark Angels can actually benefit from some of the changes that are going to happen in C:SM and let the Ultramarine pretty boys can be the prototypes this time!
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Offline Ludo

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2015, 05:04:07 PM »
I can see them dropping the cost of assault marines by a point. The surcharge for adding a jump pack has been going down for power armored armored. Look at death company in the last blood Angels book.

I can see grav cannons and grav guns being more easily accessible.

Formations! Surely we will get a battle company formation. Probably decurion style as well. Hopefully one focused on drop pods, another on armored vehicles, and a third on bikes. I see scouts, flyers, vehicle squadrons, and veterans as  auxiliary.

I am being on legion of the damned being removed from the book.
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Offline Calamity

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2015, 09:53:48 PM »
I'm glad to hear Predators becoming squadronized.  They could really use that.

The Legion Of The Dammed will probably be removed since they're their own faction now.  That's not really a problem through obviously.

Since this is the marines codex though there's bound to be a whole bunch of new units coming out.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2015, 09:53:12 AM »
I dunno about a wide swathe of new units coming out. They released a lot in the last codex, that are still probably selling pretty well.

If I were a money cruncher, I'd probably lower the awesomeness of Bikes, and increase the awesomeness of Rhinos. I mean, when was the last time Rhinos were anywhere near a competitive list? [Ignoring the efforts by the Chaos crowd.]

Terminators deserve a point drop... but everyone buys Terminators anyhow, then finds out they suck, and then they buy something else. I don't see much change there.

The Storm Talon might see a mild nerfing. They're so good, that they have to be hurting the purchase of other flyer kits.

LotD should be removed, to force people with those models to buy the LotD codex / page of rules.

Grav Cents should go up in points, while others drop. That would make people buy other models.

If the Talon gets a nerf, other Anti-Flyers should get a boost to encourage sales of those models. Hopefully Missile Launchers get the Fr/Kr/Fl treatment for the base cost. I could see the Hunter / Stalker getting mild buffs, the "Melta-Missile" option might get a second shot to boost sales.

Dreads are another ostensibly weak choice that everyone buys anyway. I'm as guilty as anyone... with 3 of my own. They might get a little cheaper to encourage the competitive players to buy more, but probably not.

Darkhorse Predictions:

Mechanicus stuff will see a boost in power and fluff. This will encourage more combining of armies with the recently released Mechanicus sets.

Fluff will be added to encourage the use of Knights with Marines. Interactions between Mechanicus and Knights will improve somehow. At worst [most broken] Tech-Lords allow a "Battle Brother" vehicle unit within 6" to take an extra shot with a weapon.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 09:54:35 AM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline murgel

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2015, 10:02:41 AM »
The new models will be nice.
However I think we will see a increase in the performance of various units, especially things like new ammunitions for the thunderfire cannon, the Stalker/Whirlwind are quite likely IMO. Those rockets could provide an answer to the need of high S even D. Would increase those sales as well.

Besides I expect some nice buffs to all the classic Marine units. On par with what we saw in the C:E-Cw.
And I look forward to it.
If they make it as fluffy and interesting as the did with C:E-Cw I will invest a few € into my regular marines.
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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #7 on: June 6, 2015, 02:01:56 PM »
The preorders are live so prepare to receive handwringing and complaining from the others, as per SOP.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #8 on: June 6, 2015, 02:49:18 PM »
Is that a grav cannon I saw on the new devastators?
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #9 on: June 6, 2015, 03:18:14 PM »
Yeah, the new Devs can take Grav Cannons/Amps (at a cost, reportedly, of almost 2 lascannons, though). They will also get a piece of kit that lets them re-roll misses for one turn of shooting (maybe the new Signum?). No slow and purposeful, though.

Other rumors I've heard:

-Vehicles in Squadrons get special boosted ability. 3 Stalkers, for instance, gain Ignores Cover whereas 3 Vindicators can fire an Apocalyptic Blast that Ignores Cover (the old Linebreaker Formation, if memory serves).

-There are supposed to be 12 new formations. One that's all air-cav, one that's a mix of stuff, one that's all terminators, one that's all speeders, etc., etc..

-Chapter Tactics remains and pretty much everybody got a boost (for instance, *everybody* in the White Scars has hit and run now, not just Bulky folks).

I haven't seen much to complain about yet, honestly. It all looks pretty cool to me.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #10 on: June 9, 2015, 01:48:06 PM »
I think it's cool that their vehicles get bonuses for being in squadrons.  They are marines after all.  They're supposed to be mighty.  8)

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #11 on: June 9, 2015, 05:56:51 PM »
Well eldar gets bonus for squadron as well, it seems thag it's a direction gamesworkshop is taking this days.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2015, 09:41:09 AM »
Biggest Deal in the new codex I've heard:

Drop Pods as Fast Attack choices.

This isn't news, really (all transports are going that route these days), but the capacity to stock a list with free drop pods in which you can put *anything* is pretty awesome. Enormous tactical opportunities there.

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2015, 02:24:43 PM »
Could Rhinos and Razorbacks get the same treatment?  They aren't fast...troops maybe?

Offline Sarenyon

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2015, 11:14:11 AM »
All transports for standard troops are FA choices in the 7th edition codex format.  Have been from when the first 7th edition codex dropped, will continue to be so.  Exception being Land Raiders are a ded trans (crusader squad) in a Hvy slot.

Offline Ludo

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Impressions of the new codex
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2015, 11:19:58 AM »
They made a few minor tweaks and added a ton of formations/detachments to our book that I am a big fan of. The demi company looks like fun as well as the stormwing formation. Added BS to the scouts makes them a competitive choice when compared to tactical squads. They reduced the prices of weapon upgrades for the Stormtalon upgrades. I usually run two so they free points will be a nice boost.

I am not a fan of the Gladius strike force.  The demi company on it's own is nice but if you want to play 2000 points the auxiliary formations become quite restrictive.  I can't add a single scout squad or a single sternguard squad.  I also find the squadron abilities a bit gimmicky.  If my opponent had three vindicators I'd make killing one of them a priority and then kill the other two whenever it suited me. kill the one and they lose their squadron power. I like running librarians but being forced to take a minimum of 3.  I wish I could take 1 as an auxiliary or perhaps instead of a Captain/Chaplin.

I think I will be running a CAD with the stormwing formation. Throw some centurion devastators in a drop pod with grav cannons and I have a good all comers list. I may even bring my ironclad dreadnoughts back to the table after two years of collecting dust.

Overall I'm very happy with the book.  It's not the most powerful codex in the game but it didn't make playing space marines any weaker and it was already a pretty good book. I'm most excited about being able to play a fluffy list that has a chance of winning.
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Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Impressions of the new codex
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2015, 03:10:02 PM »
Haven't had a chance to look it over thoroughly, and I use my marines only rarely and poorly, but here's what I've taken away from it: 

Raven Guard chapter tactics are more generally useful, especially if you just want to slam a bunch of FA units down your opponent's throat, but losing scout means that they no longer allow you to play "sneaky marines"  using anything other than scouts.  A well-designed tactic, but I'm glad the Raptor tactics still exist or else I'd have much less interest in running my marines these days. 

Shrike is weird.  According to gents in my group, models with Infiltrate must infiltrate and cannot join units that don't have infiltrate on turn 1.  Assault Marines don't have infiltrate.  So outside of strange combinations (like getting ahold of Master of Ambush to make an assault squad infiltrators),  he has to start the game unattached to any units. 

Dreads as squads is cool, but it probably doesn't work all that well for my dreads as one has a lascannon and the other a multi-melta.  Odd ranges are odd, but it's an option. 

My group is excited about the formation that potentially gives you about 500 free points of objective secured razorbacks.  The list looks dull and easy enough to kill, but your opponent can bsically just swarm objectives with objective secured units that largely know no fear and win maelstrom/tournament missions by just standing there. 

The psyker formation looks nasty.  Much nastier than a seer council even.  Take at least 6 librarians, give them each a different discipline, collect all the primaris powers, and now you have what is quite possibly the most potent psychic dakka in the game.  Or, y'know, one of the best daemon factories in the game.  A neat idea that I expect to see abused. 

Terminators got cheaper, which is good news for my termies.  Tac marines got cheaper, which I frown upon.  GW,  these are adeptus astartes.  Their whole shtick is that they're Gary Stus that are way more badass than they have any right to be.  If you see that they're underperforming for their points, don't lower the points; up their power and points!  This is completely biased. My dream marines would cost about 20 points base and have silly powers to help them out. >_>

Assault marines are still meh, but with the right loadout (and maybe some ravenguard chapter tactics) to help them out, I think they work. 

Overall,  the codex looks like solid B+ if not A material.  While some stuff is certainly abuseable, it's not as obviously scary as the eldar book was.  Many of the formations I've seen are interesting and fluffy even if some of them are potentially really good.  It hasn't really revved me up about marines, but it hasn't made any upsetting changes either, and there are some new options to tinker with.  So yeah.  I can't really complain at this point.

Offline Ludo

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Re: Impressions of the new codex
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2015, 01:41:29 AM »
Terminators got cheaper, which is good news for my termies.  Tac marines got cheaper, which I frown upon.  GW,  these are adeptus astartes.  Their whole shtick is that they're Gary Stus that are way more badass than they have any right to be.  If you see that they're underperforming for their points, don't lower the points; up their power and points!  This is completely biased. My dream marines would cost about 20 points base and have silly powers to help them out. >_>

Terminators got cheaper but I don't see many people using them even with the change.  They still don't do enough damage and die easily. 

I don't think tactical marines got any cheaper.  Did I miss something?
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Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2015, 06:19:14 AM »
... Excuse me ...  but what the point of doing a point based game if it's for giving faction free points ?  500 pts of razor back objective secured ... ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?  that's just totally broken ! If i want to play against this i will have to play a cad with only bikes and by unit of 6 ... to crack open thoses box... and i don't want to do that. Psyker formation... Eldar player were rejoincing they finally had the feeling eldar were the awesome speaker they were supposed to be, but from what i read, even this is obsolete now. I don't have the book so i can't say much about it but when i read what you guy's say... It scares me ... and annoy me. I know marines are the most played faction you gotta give them some love --' but come on...
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Any thoughts on the new Space Marine Codex?
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2015, 09:38:13 AM »
Okay, okay--calm down. The army he's referring to basically includes a horde of 5-man, naked Tac Squads who each get a free transport when you take some kind of formation (which requires you to take like 6 tac squads or some such). The army can't shoot for crap, can't assault for crap, and possesses nothing better than AV11. Free Rhinos and Razorbacks aren't going to kill anybody's army, honestly, unless you're playing a really high point level so you can actually soup-up the guys in the boxes.

Yeah, you can spam objectives, but if you're playing Maelstrom, you frankly deserve such nonsense (sorry--the more I play or read reports on Maelstrom games, the stupider I find them). In an Eternal War game, they are totally beatable most of the time. It's a strong way to play (if stupid and boring), but there's no reason to panic.

(Oh, and stop it with the "Eldar aren't a Special Snowflake" nonsense. The Marines have been giving the Eldar as good as they've gotten for thousands of years in the fluff and in the game itself for some 25 years. Be happy with your D-weapons everywhere and your super-aspect warriors--they still work just fine.) 


 


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