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Author Topic: Improving the Militarum Tempestus  (Read 3583 times)

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Offline Calamity

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Improving the Militarum Tempestus
« on: February 27, 2015, 04:04:09 PM »
Recently, I've come to realize that the Militarum Tempestus Codex does not produce a very good stand alone army.  They make decent (not great) allies, but as a force in their own right they're very poor.  They only have access to two small and fragile units, and have little in the way of support.  Needless to say, I'm disappointed with that.  But if there's one thing I love to do with 40k related material, it's tinker with it.  So here's some ideas to help make the Tempestus Scions function better as a stand alone army.

First, lets look at their Warlord Traits:

Dauntless Commander: Not too bad.  Leave it as is.
Grenadier: Also good.  Leave it as is.
Intrepid Leader: Nice.  No change needed.
Grav-chute Commandoes: No change needed either.
Drill Chief:  I have two ideas, and I don't know which one to go with.  They are to change it to either:
The range bonus is applied army wide regardless of whether or not the warlord is near or even alive, or units within 12'' of the Warlord fire an additional shot with their hot shot pistols or guns instead of a range bonus.  Please discuss this with me.  :-\
Inspired Commander: Change to:
When rolling Leadership tests for orders issued by the Warlord, any successful Leadership test that results in a double will count as Inspired Tactics.  Guess where I got the idea for this!  ;)

In addition to all of this, I'd also suggest that they can choose to use the normal IG Warlord list instead of the Tempestus one if they want.  What do you think?

Now onto Orders.  I've come up with so many changes to them I can't really stick with the old names.  So maybe if I share the effects first we can work out names later.  My new order effects are:

- The ordered unit must immediately make a shooting attack.  When resolving this shooting attack, all models in the ordered unit have the Precision Shot special rule, and all hot-shot lasguns in the ordered unit have the Sniper special rule.

- The ordered unit must immediately make a shooting attack.  When resolving this shooting attack, all models in the ordered unit have the Pinning and Twin-Linked special rules.

- The ordered unit must run in this shooting phase, but must also make a shooting attack either before or after it runs, even though a unit cannot normally Shoot and Run in the same phase.

- The ordered unit must immediately make a shooting attack.  When resolving this shooting attack, all weapons in the ordered unit have the Ignores Cover special rule.

- The ordered unit must immediately make a shooting attack against an enemy vehicle.  All models in the ordered unit have the Monster Hunter and Tankhunter special rules, and all hot-shot lasguns in the ordered unit have the Rending special rule.

- The ordered unit gains the Fleet and Furious Charge special rules for the rest of the turn.

What do you guys think so far?  In addition to these changes, I'm also thinking of creating more units for the army.  Mostly commandeered Forge World units.  I already have some ideas (well, one) going as seen here.

So, what do you guys think?

Offline Gunner_Sabot_Tank

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Re: Improving the Militarum Tempestus
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2015, 04:52:59 PM »
Quick tweak to your second to last order. If you're giving the unit both Monster Hunter and Tankhunter, it should be that the unit fires at either a tank or an MC. Otherwise, I like what you've done, but it's been so long since I've looked at the MT dex I've forgotten what the stock stuff looks like, lol.
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Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Militarum Tempestus
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2015, 06:16:59 PM »
Quick tweak to your second to last order. If you're giving the unit both Monster Hunter and Tankhunter, it should be that the unit fires at either a tank or an MC.

Whoops, you're right.  I'll change that now.

At the moment I'm not even sure if these alternative orders are OK.  Number 1, 3, 4 and 5 are OK I guess.  They're all like better versions of the regular orders.  It's 2 and 6 that I'm not sure about.  They're intended to be new and hopefully improved versions of Suppression Doctrine and Close Assault Doctrine.  For 2, I even considered giving it Blind, but found it hard to justify.  And I think 1 and 5 conflict with regards to monster hunting.  I think I might need to make 5 vehicle related only.

I'm also thinking of squeezing a few more orders in there too, because I'm trying to create junior and senior officer levels.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 06:27:00 PM by Tangi »

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Improving the Militarum Tempestus
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 10:19:01 PM »
I don't think the problem  with the MT is the orders or Warlord traits at all (the orders are generally pretty good, honestly). What they're missing is particular unit entries to balance out the codex.

They should have an infiltrating unit of some kind, for one thing. They should have at least one heavier armored shooting vehicle (like an urban assault tank or the like) that can dish out some long-range firepower (I could see them with access to Predators, for instance). Finally, they need some kind of exceptionally tough unit that can act as a counter-charge or assault unit in some way (perhaps MT in power armor with CC upgrades or maybe a souped-up armored sentinel).

Add a couple more units to the codex, and it becomes entirely usable. In truth, you can do this with allies to some extent, it just becomes challenging to work within certain themes.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Militarum Tempestus
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 11:56:15 PM »
I agree that the "fix" for MT isn't in the WL Traits or the Orders.

They need a "tough" tank to move with the Tauroxen, and it should be fast to keep up with the Prime. Evil Mutts would probably work well.

They need an anti-armour flyer to work with the Valks. A Vendetta pops to mind.

They need something to hold the line when assault starts breaking out. I've always wanted to see an Assault Sentinel. Something like an Armoured Sentinel, with a Heavy Flamer and a Power Axe. Something like that. Keep it less smashy than a Dreadnaught, but still capable of mashing infantry. Make them take up 5 transport slots, so you could fit one in a Vendetta or 2 in a Valk.

That said, Ogryns supposedly get on famously well with Commissars, so they might work. I just think they're stupid without a Power Fist option for the Bone 'Ead.

I think they need a sneaky ground force, as well. Something like SM Scouts, with infiltrate, stealth, and ranged weapon options. I'd want to see a Heavy Weapon option here. In fact, scouts with a bonus BS, and one less S + T would be good.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 11:58:38 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Militarum Tempestus
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2015, 10:44:54 AM »
So the consensus is, the Orders and Traits don't need changing at all, and what they really need is more units?  I can definitely agree with the second part obviously.  Should I just bin what I did with the traits and the orders or is there potential there?

They should have an infiltrating unit of some kind, for one thing. They should have at least one heavier armored shooting vehicle (like an urban assault tank or the like) that can dish out some long-range firepower (I could see them with access to Predators, for instance).

They definitely need infiltrators, and they definitely need a tank.  I'm not sure if it should be a Predator though.  That seems like it's strictly for space marines only.

They need a "tough" tank to move with the Tauroxen, and it should be fast to keep up with the Prime. Evil Mutts would probably work well.

I think putting evil mutts into the list isn't out of the question.  They belong to separate formations sent to support other formations right?  Then I can see squadrons of them being sent to support Scion Ground Assault Formations.  In fact, would that mean then that Leman Russ squadrons (and commanders) could be included too?  That would solve a lot of problems.  They do have Navy support no problem (which means yes, they should get Vendettas as well).

I'm not sure about putting adhumans or pyskers into the army though, because of the Orders.  For me, the orders represent the Scions Schola Progenium training, and are not something that normal guardsmen, let alone Ogyrns, could be expected to perform.  Which means then that you'd have some units running around which couldn't be given Orders, and that ain't right.  Vehicles are not a problem since they can't receive orders.  I guess what I'm saying is that we could just give the Scions Evil Mutt and Sentinel Squadrons (both kinds) and that would be a start towards making them a decent stand alone force.  Leman Russ squadrons and artillery batteries though might be harder to justify though.

I have another idea too...small,fast jeep like vehicles attached to Scion platoons that can deep strike or be put into Valkyries (they'll have the very bulky special rule) that perform the role of heavy weapon support.  I was thinking that they could have the same armor as a Taurox Prime but only have 2 hull points and be opened top.  I know about Forge World's Tauros and Tauros Venator units.  How about them?


Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Militarum Tempestus
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2015, 11:07:53 PM »
Not to put a fine point on it, but why not just take the Guard Codex, and switch Veterans with Scions?

If you've got it bad for the Orders and traits from the Scion codex, keep them and sub those out too. That would be the easiest way to fix them, and then just take choices you think are fluffy.

I mean, Cadians used to be able to take three squads of Kasrkin back in the Eye of Terror days. Then you could take Stormies as troops in the Doctrines days with Grenediers, I think. They could have just released a dataslate with a Special Character that unlocked Scions as a Troops choice and scrapped the whole idea for the MT codex... but then you only have to buy a Dataslate! More money in a codex. :P

Hell, taking Scions instead of Vets would be a drawback, not a bonus. I can't imagine anyone saying no to you, especially if you moved Veterans to Elites.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Militarum Tempestus
« Reply #7 on: March 1, 2015, 10:46:07 AM »
Not to put a fine point on it, but why not just take the Guard Codex, and switch Veterans with Scions?

If you've got it bad for the Orders and traits from the Scion codex, keep them and sub those out too. That would be the easiest way to fix them, and then just take choices you think are fluffy.


That would be the fastest, simplest and easiest way to fix it for sure.  And I do believe that the fastest, simplest and easiest way is also the best.

But before I do that, let me make my list of suggestions:

HQ:
Lord Commissars, Commissars, and a Regimental Command Squad.

Regimental Command Squad: A 5 man command squad consisting of a Tempestor Prime (who now has 3 wounds and the Senior Officer special rule) and 4 Scions.  They can take a Regimental Standard (a company standard) and an Officer of the Fleet as well.  Hey, if the Elysians can get them, why not Scions?  Exact same stats, rules and equipment as the IG one, but with the added bonus of being able to Deep Strike and costing +5 points.

Troops:
Tempestus Scion Platoons:

1-3 Scion Squads, 0-1 Platoon Command Squad, 0-1 Tempestus Sentinel Squadron and 0-1 Tempestus Tauros Squadron.  The Scion squads are unchanged (but the Sgt equivalent needs a new name), and the Command Squad is lead by a Tempestor (with Voice Of Command). 

Tempestus Sentinels are BS:4 Scout Sentinels with the Deepstrike Special Rule, and a Hot-shot Volley Gun instead of a multi-laser as their basic weapon.  They can also be deployed from Valkyries, and have the very bulky Special Rule.

Tempestus Tauros I'm still working on, but will be similar to their Forge World equivalents.  The idea is that both Tauros and Sentinels are replacements for Heavy Weapon Squads in the Militarum Tempestus, and are crewed by trained members of the platoon.  Sentinel squadrons mainly support deepstriking platoons, whilst the Tauros support Taurox Prime borne platoons.

Fast Attack:
Valkyrie Squadrons, Vendetta Squadrons and Hellhound Squadrons.

How does this look?  A lot of fragile but fast moving and deep striking units.  Could this set up work as a stand alone army?

 


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