Topic: Best way to choose an army?

[Sumshine]

I play 40k.  I chose CSM's solely based on fluff.  Regardless of edition, I always lose to Eldar.  This makes my 40k experience not so enjoyable, because Eldar just happens to be my opponent's favorite race.  I think it could partially be because their units are always more effective against me pt for pt than any other race.  Even when I'm taking anti-Eldar equipment.  /end whining.

Anyway, I've heard that Warhammer Fantasy has more strategy involved than 40k.  Is this true?  (it'd be a big plus, if it is)

Secondly, how would you recommend choosing an army?  I'm not sure if I should pick one based on army play style, by physical appearance, or by a mixture of both (with or without weights).  I don't care about fluff any more, unless I dislike it.  e.g. I will not play High Elves, Brettonians, or Dark Elves for various reasons.  I'm also going to completely ignore what's considered good or bad, because that changes dramatically between editions of the game as well as with new codexes (supposing Fantasy has the same issues as 40k).

If I choose solely on physical appearance  I'd choose Wood Elves.
If I choose solely on play style I'd choose a horde style army.  (I'm not entirely sure which ones can fit into this based on the sticky threads, but I do know that Orks and Goblins and Tomb Kings fit in this category, and I'm pretty sure Empire and Skaven fit here as well)
If I choose a mixture of the two, I'd have to figure out how to weight the two things, which is difficult, because I'm unsure how often I'd play the game.  If I didn't play much, then physical appearance is more important.  For simplicity I could just say 50/50.  If I do that, then Tomb Kings and Empire (supposing it's hordey, or can be) would definitely be on the list.

I'm also not sure if I'd like the Wood Elf play style or not.  Fantasy is a different game than 40k, and I might not hate "elite" armies quite so much in this game.  I don't even know anyone that plays Fantasy though, so I'm not sure how I could test this.  I know for a fact that I'd like horde tactics, because I use them effectively in games like Rome: Total War, which is the only war strategy computer game that I don't play with an economic focus.  --The lack of hordey options is also why I hate CSM's in 40k;  All the tactics I want to use involve sacrifices and screens, but all the units are so expensive points-wise. [also, a good armor save is completely worthless when nearly everything seems to ignore armor saves]-- Plus I don't really know what I would think of magic.  Apparently Elves are good at it.

On a completely random note, my favorite model is the lizardman mage/priest dude that looks like a frogman being carried on a throne.

Thanks for any advice/comments/questions/insults in advance.

[Greg23]

Welcome to Fantasy.

Ok, you like Hordes for strategy and Wood Elves for looks.

Let's ask a couple of basic questions.

What other armies look "cool" for you.  This is important, because if you think an army looks like poop, you won't want to play them, no matter how cool the rules are.
Do you like to have a shooty army or a hth heavy army?
How important is magic for you?
How important is a variety of troop choices for you? (e.g. Trolls, Ogres, Dragons, swarms, chariots, heavy cavalry, skirmishers, warmachines, etc)
How "Horde" are you willing to go?  200+ Skaven slaves?  80+ man zombie units? etc.
And last but not least, how deep are your pockets?

Answer these questions and you end up answering your own question.

[Deathpepper]

If I choose solely on physical appearance  I'd choose Wood Elves.
If I didn't play much, then physical appearance is more important. 
I don't even know anyone that plays Fantasy though...

You don't know anyone who plays fantasy.  So you won't be playing much unless you get some people into it yourself. 

I'd go with wood elves.

[Sumshine]

Thanks for the welcome Greg23.

@Deathpepper.  lol.  Nice catch.  It definitely puts the weights in favor of appearance.  However, I'm still not sure that I should completely ignore army play style.

[1]What other armies look "cool" for you.  This is important, because if you think an army looks like poop, you won't want to play them, no matter how cool the rules are.
[2]Do you like to have a shooty army or a hth heavy army?
[3]How important is magic for you?
[4]How important is a variety of troop choices for you? (e.g. Trolls, Ogres, Dragons, swarms, chariots, heavy cavalry, skirmishers, warmachines, etc)
[5]How "Horde" are you willing to go?  200+ Skaven slaves?  80+ man zombie units? etc.
[6]And last but not least, how deep are your pockets?

1) Empire, Tomb Kings, Dwarves, Lizardmen, Orks & Goblins, Slaaneshi and Tzeentche Daemons,
--I like the way Wood Elves look the best by far.
2) Primarily shooty, with counter charge units and some screens/blockers.
3) I have absolutely no idea whether magic would be important to me or not.
4) I especially like the dragon, dryads, and tree people of the Wood Elves.  I like the mage/priest on a throne in lizardman army.  I like griffons, but I couldn't find them in unit form anywhere, only as a mount for Empire characters.  I like the Tomb Kings chariot(s?).  Nothing especially stands out in Orks & Gobbos or Dwarves to me, I just like the over all appearance of that one, but I like the overall appearance of the others mentioned too.  Slaaeneshi and Tzeentche Daemons were already mentioned.
5)  I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  I don't mind having an insane model count, but I'd prefer some unit diversity.
6)  For the sake of this argument, we'll say infinite.  In reality, I'm broke.  Part of the fun is planning what to buy, and I take forever to put things together and paint.

Really though, those questions still require weighting to actually give me any definite answers, and without having played the game or owning any codexes, I don't know how to do that (effectively and accurately anyway).  I'm pretty sure I shouldn't play dwarves, because it's a slow elite army like CSM's.  I kinda want to get away from Chaos, just through negative association even though I didn't play Slaanesh or Tzeentche CSM's.
I have a weird feeling that Lizardmen aren't for me, because it's mentioned that they're a good starter race in one or both of the noob guide stickies (again, because CSM's and their emperor loving counterparts are always "good starter races").

I know Wood Elves are an elite army, but their strong magic could change how they play enough for me to really like them.  Without a good 40k comparison, Magic is such a big wild card for my decision.  Empire's description of their units all working together nicely sounds like something I'm after.  I do like the way the army looks, but it's on the lower end of that totem pole.  Orks and Goblins have the numbers.  As far as their play goes, I'd either think their random factor is hilarious or it would really make me angry.  I'm not sure which.  It's another thing I wish I could test out.  Tomb Kings have about the same perks as Empire to me.  They look slightly better IMO, but if there's a way to get a unit of griffons or griffon riders in Empire I rate them overall the same.

Let me rephrase:
Wood Elves:  high risk, but high reward
Empire: good Safe choice
Tomb Kings: good Safe choice
Orks and Golbins: good choice, but high risk
Chaos Daemons: I don't know, but I'm not really that interested.
Dwarves and Lizardmen: probably bad choices

I'm probably going to go with wood elves unless someone brings up a horror story of how he/she came to hate their first fantasy race that they chose because it looked cool but hated the way it played.  He/she would then need to tell me that magic probably won't make a big difference in the grand scheme of things.  He/she would also need to tell me that with a bunch of Wood Elf units, a large portion of their points cost stems from statistics that are not used frequently (e.g. good armor saves, being good at both cc and shooty (so no matter what role you're using the unit for against someone, it's only using 50% of its awesome).

If that happens, then I'll probably buy both the Tomb Kings and the Empire codexes.

[Greg23]

If it comes down to Codex creep, you are better off with Tomb Kings and wait a bit for Wood Elves.  Wood Elf Codex is getting pretty old, while the Tomb Kings have a brand new Codex.

Empire is getting long in the tooth also.  But Orcs and Goblins also have a brand new Codex.

But if you like the way Wood Elves look the most, then go for it.

[Lonewolf]

As a Woodie player, id also advise against them right now. They where never an easy race to play with, but in this edition they have pretty much lost all their strenghts, while gaining little in exchange. I could get into more detail if you like, but suffice to say this edition ruleset hasnt been kind to them. Also their magic isnt really strong (and only ever was if there where a couple of woods on the board). Actually i would say that its below average right now.

If i had to pick an army of the ones you have named, id go either for Lizardmen or Tombkings.

Lizzies, because i have wanted to play them for a long time and finally start experimenting with magic strong armies, and TK because an undead army is quite different to play with than a living one. But Vampires never appealed to me, and TK where really getting into the years.

[csjarrat]

Wood elfs are gorgeous, but require a fortune to be spent on metal models to have a decently useable army.
If you want to game, I'd go with empire (has lots of viable builds with good unit diversity) as it's a good all rounder force and can do well in all phases of the game.
Most armies specialise in one phase, and leave themselves vulnerable in the others, empire can compete in all.
I'd then buy whatever looks cool in the woodie army list and paint it, while you wait for their new book to come out

[Ironclad]

Honestly I think you should choose Vampire Counts.  You are not sure about magic being important to you or not.  Which when you switch from 40k to Warhammer magic is really new and fun at least for me it was.  Magic adds that extra randomness that can sometimes make or break games which I like.  And VC's will def have you using magic.  If you want horde then here you go, with tons of units that can sacrifice and screen and die and come back to life and repeat over and over.  And you def get variety with VC's as far as models goes.  Plus there are some really eye pleasing models if they are painted up nice (blood dragons for example).

[Damnation]

As said, Wood Elves were never the ideal beginner army, and certainly not now in 8th edition where it's mostly about cheap horde units which Wood Elves 1) don't have access to and 2) find impossible to tackle. Paint up some of their models if you'd like to take a head start at collecting the army, as I don't think the plastic sets they currently have will be replaced next update.

If you want to know what I'd suggest, it's Empire. You can go magic heavy with them comfortably, as they have access to all the main lores plus some nifty magic items (Rod of Power, lots of fun) and War Altars. Although they have one of the older army books they are still quite competitive in a number of ways, and will probably receive an update in the not-too-distant future.

Tomb Kings are probably a safe bet too, but less so than Empire. Their troops are tactically less flexible due to being Undead, which might not suit your style of play. I guess you can do some very versatile builds with them, but less so than with Empire, which will always be the premium jack-of-all-trades force.