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Main => General 40k => Topic started by: Snike on November 17, 2007, 03:16:02 PM
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I'm going to build a plastic/cardboard bolter for my Renegade costume for a con that's arranged next fall. So I ask shortly: does anybody have any clue on how big should a Bolter be in real life and does anybody have some sorta templates for one?
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It kind of depends on what kind of bolter you want, some of them are a little bit bigger or smaller than other bolters depending on what pattern it is. But you could try guessing it by calculating the scale models are made on. A marine is supposed to be about 6ft, divide this by the actual size of a marine model. Next you simply multiply this number with the size of a model bolter and the result would be something like how big a real bolter would be like.
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You could try looking at this (http://us.games-workshop.com/news/events/other_events/ardboys/default.htm).
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It kind of depends on what kind of bolter you want, some of them are a little bit bigger or smaller than other bolters depending on what pattern it is. But you could try guessing it by calculating the scale models are made on. A marine is supposed to be about 6ft, divide this by the actual size of a marine model. Next you simply multiply this number with the size of a model bolter and the result would be something like how big a real bolter would be like.
I was under the impression that marines were closer to 7-8ft.
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well, the bolters in Chosen's linky look very fake, though the second place guy looks like the perfect image of a space marine. A bolter is .75 cal. the largest personal firearm ammo nowadays is .50 cal in pistols, followed by probably 7.62mm rifles. 75 cal is three quarters of an inch, so the gun would have to be quite large. This guy seems to have done a pretty good job http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/BolterPreRefinish.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/MadProps.htm&h=960&w=1280&sz=493&hl=en&start=26&tbnid=nvN4LLKnqeT8nM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbolter%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN. (http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/BolterPreRefinish.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/MadProps.htm&h=960&w=1280&sz=493&hl=en&start=26&tbnid=nvN4LLKnqeT8nM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbolter%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN.)
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I held the combi bolter while at the event - it's still pretty big...Imagine trying to take that home on the plane...lol
Lazarus.
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well, the bolters in Chosen's linky look very fake, though the second place guy looks like the perfect image of a space marine. A bolter is .75 cal. the largest personal firearm ammo nowadays is .50 cal in pistols, followed by probably 7.62mm rifles. 75 cal is three quarters of an inch, so the gun would have to be quite large. This guy seems to have done a pretty good job http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/BolterPreRefinish.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/MadProps.htm&h=960&w=1280&sz=493&hl=en&start=26&tbnid=nvN4LLKnqeT8nM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbolter%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN. (http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/BolterPreRefinish.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/MadProps.htm&h=960&w=1280&sz=493&hl=en&start=26&tbnid=nvN4LLKnqeT8nM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbolter%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN.)
Actually, there are .50cal and .45 cal rifles, both of which are larger than 7.62mm, in fact 7.62mm is about the same caliber as .22, just with more powder behind it..
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The 5.56mm (.223) is alot closer to a .22 than the 7.62mm is....I always thought 7.62mm was closer to .30 caliber.
Lazarus.
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Thanks for the responses, guys! Please discuss the caliber stuff on some other topic, knowing the caliber of a bolter isn't my problem, and doesn't actually help me... :) The pics were nice, though not 100% necessary. (I'm completely aware what a bolter looks like... ;))
The problem is that even though I know what bolter looks like I would greatly benefit from some sort of templates or plans for one...
you could try guessing it by calculating the scale models are made on. A marine is supposed to be about 6ft, divide this by the actual size of a marine model. Next you simply multiply this number with the size of a model bolter and the result would be something like how big a real bolter would be
...and the 40k bolters, Space Marines and other stuff aren't in 100% accurate scale and there are different sizes of Marine models even in 40K scale Marines alone. And, for example, comparing the bolters on Inquisitor scale and Epic scale models makes the bolter completely different sizes. And no-one is 100% sure on how tall a Space Marine would actually be and even if somebody is, somebody else says something else, just like this: A marine is supposed to be about 6ft <|> I was under the impression that marines were closer to 7-8ft.
I'm pretty sure I can get the actual scale comparing Inquisitor and 40K models but it would still be a lot easier if somebody had actual experience on building/having/seeing a real-life-scale bolter in real life or having some sort of plans or templates for one.
The link posted by Two Blades as One had a really nice bolter (though the barrel is too small IMO).
some of them are a little bit bigger or smaller than other bolters depending on what pattern it is.
Got no idea on patterns but they don't matter that much as long as the bolter itself looks cool... ;D
Thanks, everyone, I'm still eager to get more information. ;D
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Knowing the caliber might help make your barrel look a little more realistic....
Lazarus.
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well, the bolters in Chosen's linky look very fake, though the second place guy looks like the perfect image of a space marine. A bolter is .75 cal. the largest personal firearm ammo nowadays is .50 cal in pistols, followed by probably 7.62mm rifles. 75 cal is three quarters of an inch, so the gun would have to be quite large. This guy seems to have done a pretty good job http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/BolterPreRefinish.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/MadProps.htm&h=960&w=1280&sz=493&hl=en&start=26&tbnid=nvN4LLKnqeT8nM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbolter%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN. (http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/BolterPreRefinish.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Props/MadProps.htm&h=960&w=1280&sz=493&hl=en&start=26&tbnid=nvN4LLKnqeT8nM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbolter%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN.)
Actually, there are .50cal and .45 cal rifles, both of which are larger than 7.62mm, in fact 7.62mm is about the same caliber as .22, just with more powder behind it..
I said personal firearms, i don't really see people walking down the street with Bren .50's or Barret Sniper rifles all that often. 5.56=.228 cal, 7.62=.303 cal.
Lazarus is right, the calibre is needed to be known to make a correctly sized gun. The bigger the bullet, the bigger the gun.
A space marine is 7-8 feet tall, it says in Codex: Space Marines and the BBB and the BGB.
As for templates... that seems pretty hard... i'll try to find something but im not hopefull. :-\
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Al you need to do is make an ACCURATE scale drawing of the bolter. I'm talking, go and find one in your bitz box, and measure the hell out of it, take it all down, double check all of it. Then scale the sizes up using the proper ratio (described above by various people). You'll then need to make decisions about how you'd actually form it from card / whatever.
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sorry to go off topic, but..lazarus, do you happen to by chance know what the winning lists ( the necron player in particular) was composed of?
and more on topic, doesn't GW events and tournaments often times have those huge space marines? i would guess as large as those..
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Clostest weapons system to a boltgun is the OICW weapons system - the XM29 which had an assualt rifle but also fired 20mm airsbrust greandes. Look their for inspiration/rough dimensions.
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Clostest weapons system to a boltgun is the OICW weapons system - the XM29 which had an assualt rifle but also fired 20mm airsbrust greandes. Look their for inspiration/rough dimensions.
Ya, but the XM29 desn't exactly resemble a bolter. Size wise i guess but the shape is way off.
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"I said personal firearms, i don't really see people walking down the street with Bren .50's or Barret Sniper rifles all that often. 5.56=.228 cal, 7.62=.303 cal"
Lol, but walking down the street with a 22 or a magnum pistol or what have you is normal? I think I'm glad I don't live on your street! lol ;)
Im sure there are templates for building a Bolter somewhere, enough people have built them or tried. I would have thought it's not that much more difficult to start from a photo like the one posted with Imp Armour book though.
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Size wise yes, ammunition concept yes...
So its the closest real world weapon to a boltgun...
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Knowing the caliber might help make your barrel look a little more realistic...
I'ts not that important, I just make the barrel big enough to be as close as possible to the model one and still look cool ;D (not like the pics of bolters in some of the links, the barrels were way small). ;D
Im sure there are templates for building a Bolter somewhere, enough people have built them or tried. I would have thought it's not that much more difficult to start from a photo like the one posted with Imp Armour book though.
That's what I wish, too, but I didn't manage to find any... :'( If I'd found some, I wouldn't have started this topic. :-\ And I don't have the Imperial Armoury book, neither am I going to buy it. (I know most of the stuff there anyway, so it's just waste of money.)
Clostest weapons system to a boltgun is the OICW weapons system - the XM29 which had an assualt rifle but also fired 20mm airsbrust greandes. Look their for inspiration/rough dimensions.
Dude, I know waaaay more about Bolters than the XM29. ;D ;D (Never heard of it... :-\)
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Some GW stores have a life-sized Space Marine standing in the store. Does he have a bolter?
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Got no idea. And my local (read: the only one in Finland ::) :P :-\) GW doesn't have one. (Though they have a 40K-scale Battle Barge in the roof... ;D)
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looking at SM artwork and minis, I'd guess that the standard boltgun looks to be about 2.5' - 3' in length. Wikipedia list them as being .75 caliber (3/4" diameter slug). Its also listed as being a rocket propelled slug. For dimensions, I'd say just make some scale approximations from art work or minis. I doubt you'll find any 'plans' for a boltgun on the net.
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He wont be life size... he may be man size.. .but remember how large the armour is with the carapace...
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Lol, but walking down the street with a 22 or a magnum pistol or what have you is normal? I think I'm glad I don't live on your street! lol ;)
Ha, ya right, my typical suburb neigbourhood with people wlking around with magnums. That would be the day. ;D ;D ;D
I get what you're saying though. Its just that on a possiblity scale, the handgun is lightyears ahead in probability to see (though it really wont ever happen here) than any .50 cal weapon.
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looking at SM artwork and minis, I'd guess that the standard boltgun looks to be about 2.5' - 3' in length. Wikipedia list them as being .75 caliber (3/4" diameter slug). Its also listed as being a rocket propelled slug.
Now guys, this is the sort of information I need. More of this, please. Thanks, Grenadier
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Here's a picture of a full sized SM with bolter next to a real person for scale.
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb313%2FInquisitor_Ilvaen%2Fspacemarinescaling.jpg&hash=07727cae133a0fa3d2c9edd45b0a1a1418e49336)
I think the man is Nick Davis (ex White Dwarf) who is about 6'2" or so and quite broad. I also remember that there used to be a company who made life-sized museum quality artifacts for GW - I can't remember their name but Mark Bedford used to work for them before he joined GW - and one of the things they made was a bolter in a display case (much more detailed than the one in the photo). It was around 3' long from stock to barrel IIRC and was displayed for ages in Warhammer World. I think it's been shelved now though.
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looking at SM artwork and minis, I'd guess that the standard boltgun looks to be about 2.5' - 3' in length. Wikipedia list them as being .75 caliber (3/4" diameter slug). Its also listed as being a rocket propelled slug.
Now guys, this is the sort of information I need. More of this, please. Thanks, Grenadier
WEll, the magazine holds 30 of those .75 caliber rounds, so the magazine, the magazine slot and the barrel will have to be large.
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Here's a picture of a full sized SM with bolter next to a real person for scale.
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb313%2FInquisitor_Ilvaen%2Fspacemarinescaling.jpg&hash=07727cae133a0fa3d2c9edd45b0a1a1418e49336)
Yeeech! Is this real person a Possessed? What an ugly face! ;)
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have you thought about making a "rough blank" out of cardboard? what I mean is make a very crude first draft of the model, the one to use when manipulating scale.
I make papermodels, a lot of which use reverse-engineered computer models (i.e. make a guy from world of warcraft and make him 2d, print on paper) you might be able to make a suitable model this way.
while your at it, make a chainsword papermodel and relaease it free for everyone to make!
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Quote from: Snike on Today at 09:25:20 AM
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looking at SM artwork and minis, I'd guess that the standard boltgun looks to be about 2.5' - 3' in length. Wikipedia list them as being .75 caliber (3/4" diameter slug). Its also listed as being a rocket propelled slug.
Now guys, this is the sort of information I need. More of this, please. Thanks, Grenadier
WEll, the magazine holds 30 of those .75 caliber rounds, so the magazine, the magazine slot and the barrel will have to be large.
A quick dimension for the mag off of those numbers should be about 12-13" tall, 1.5-2" deep, and maybe(?) 4-6" wide. Im not too sure about the width because Im not sure of the slug+casing dimensions. The height compensates for the necessity of a magazine follower and the depth compensates for a thick wall on the magazine. Now the barrel is purely speculative:
I see no reason for the appearant 1/2-3/4" walling on the barrel. You shouldn't need that thick of walling for a rocket propelled slug. I would suspect that a function similar to an M203 Grenade Launcher would be used, resulting in less weight and bulk. Its also possible that what we see as the "exposed" might actually be a compensator attached to the muzzle similar to the M82A1 Anti-Material Rifle. It looks big on the front, but thats it. There is also then artistic license, which is the more likely culprit.
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thicker gun barrels allow it to disipate heat faster and more efficiently, an m203 gernade launcher does not have that thick of a barrel because it is not intended to be used very often. the vehicle-mounted, three-round-burst ones have much thicker barrels.
besides, if the barrel isn't thick enough it will look hookey.
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thicker gun barrels allow it to disipate heat faster and more efficiently, an m203 gernade launcher does not have that thick of a barrel because it is not intended to be used very often. the vehicle-mounted, three-round-burst ones have much thicker barrels.
besides, if the barrel isn't thick enough it will look hookey.
Thicker doesnt dissipate heat, surface area does. This is why fluted barrels or a cooling system is used on hot burning weapons. The reason for the thinner barrel on the M203 is because of the special 2 stage shell that it fires. The initial high pressure pop is cased withing the thick shell casing. It quickly vents into a much larger diameter chamber, dropping the PSI due to a large increase in volume of the new cavity. Now the MK19Mod3's are a different story. Whilst they are still 40mm Grenade Launchers, the actual grenades arn't the same as the M203 ones. The Mk19 uses a much higher pressure charge in a longer barrel. The need for the barrel thickness is due to the dramatic increase in pressure. The M203 couldnt handle a Mk19 shell safely.
Your last point I will agree with most definitely. :D
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a 12guage shotgun shell is roughly .75 Cal, so your barrel can be the size of a normal shotgun, and there are drum fed shotguns that hold about 30 shots...
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yes, and there are belt fed auto-shotguns, but lets not get into that... ;)
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I see no reason for the appearant 1/2-3/4" walling on the barrel. You shouldn't need that thick of walling for a rocket propelled slug. Blah blah blah and so on...
I doesn't matter. I like it big. ;D Looks cool.
The Space Marine is awesome. I laughed a lot at the dude that has undergone a facewarp. ;D
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Hey, check this out:
http://www.exlibrismortis.org/
Clisk on the "What's New" section, then the picture of the ship under the "Special Project Revealed" posting... scroll down & there you will see a pretty damn good specimen.
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Got no idea. And my local (read: the only one in Finland ::) :P :-\) GW doesn't have one. (Though they have a 40K-scale Battle Barge in the roof... ;D)
Dude you have to take a pic of that! If you post pics of that battlebarge I will help but until then...
Nah I joke... I have no idea about a template but I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guys uncle (or something like that) who tried to build something similar and posted a template on the internet... No idea where it is mind you but they are out there. :P
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Thanks, Apocalyp$e! That's a cool bolter!
Dude you have to take a pic of that!
It's just primed black ATM but I try to remember to take a pic of the Barge the next time I visit.
I have no idea about a template but I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guys uncle (or something like that) who tried to build something similar and posted a template on the internet...
Why thank you, I'm sure that will solve all my bolter needs... :P :P
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I don't get why GW doesn't make some real sized ones for sale :( Anyways didn't black library used to sell full sized bolter rounds
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I don't get why GW doesn't make some real sized ones for sale
Got no idea.
Anyways didn't black library used to sell full sized bolter rounds
They still do, they're just not anything I need.
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i not shure sorry but if you do manige it please post some pictures or something
thanks ;)