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Offline Purple Raine

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #20 on: February 9, 2003, 04:22:17 PM »
Ravenwing ... We have many painters interested, but we have not met our limit.  Frankly, I'd like to have this as an ongoing project - who says there shall ever be an end to CWEO?  If there are enough gifted painters, artists, and writers out there, we can continually write our codex...

You don't need pics of Eldar minis to prove you can paint, several pics of models you've painted would do.

Osar Siris ... we'd love to take you up on your offer (and it's very generous of you).... but at the moment, for our official army, we're looking to collect our very own army ... thanks

Any other questions?
Just a fan of this awesome site.

Offline Osar Siris

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #21 on: February 9, 2003, 07:34:06 PM »
Alright, its an open ended offer if you ever wish for a titan clan in your fluff and can't aquire any of your own.

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Offline Khazim

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2003, 12:19:35 PM »
WOW. this new craftworld is so awesome. i would
love to play it

Offline deDoc

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2003, 06:22:42 PM »
An army list as in what units are IN the craftworld?  The craftworld has ALL units (DE / Eldar / Harli / Exo)... if you're asking about HOW to field such an army... now, that's up to all of us to figure out...

The BEST answer would be for GW to liberalize ally rules.  Then, one army list could "slot in" other units.  There is precedent for this--the Kroot working for the Tau, or the Chapter approved Human militia units under Tau hegemony.  Unfortunately, GW isn't likely to be that accomodating...  :P

That being taken away from us, I see two options:

(a)  A LARGE force, 3500-4000 points, which has to be deployed in "detachments".  Each separate detachment could deploy in anr around each other to give the impression of a large single CWEO army.

(b)  For official Rogue Trader/Grand Tournament play, another approach seems called for... and Agis Neugebauer, in his Dark Harlequins webpage


http://www.agisn.de/html/dark_harlequins.html


may have pointed out the answer.  Pick a predominant army list... let's say CE.. and use figures from the other branches of the Eldar as "proxy" for the units IN that CE list.  For example, Dark Eldar warrior figures could be deployed (in CWEO colors) as troops choices, proxying Guardians, and using the Guardian specs (including weapons).  Wyches could be used to proxy Banshees... and so on.

Exodites could be proxies, most belike, by Warhammer Wood Elves units, perhaps with fusils/"rifles", being used in the Rangers category, for example...

Using GW figures would make the army RT legal... using them as proxies, deployed as a standard army, sidesteps the "allies" issue... and the board would have an army which LOOKED like a mixed-brethren CWEO army.

Comments, analysis, refinements?

Offline Addinarr

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2003, 10:13:09 PM »
At the moment, we're going with the thought that all CWEO units are deployed together, and although are separated by squads, are not done so by detachments.

It will be considered otherwise, of course. We still have to work out the details, and all possibilities will be brought up in discussion.

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Offline The Fabulous Warfleet Game Author

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2003, 04:42:55 AM »
I hate to be the one to say it, but its not right what is going on here with CWEO. I think its GREAT to be keen about new stuff. I love new stuff (if only because it is new -- often :-)) but this is too much. It will hail far too much variety, and reduce racial diadvantages. It will become far too easy for someone to build "the perfect" WH40K army. Nobody will enjoy playing your CWEO army. Not just because its hard to guess what you will bring. You'll be suspected of cheesily bringing ONLY the best of both races, and thats it.

Racial charcteristics are a huge factor in WH40K when you choose an army to collect. An army might have an abundance of "Type A Advantages" but almost zero"Type B Advantages". Thats why its fun. Because balance is not based on pure equivalency (ie like chess)

I want to digress to an annalogy: about 15 years ago  in warhammer fantasy battle (years, and years ago )  elves and dwarfs could play as allies. But GW had a problem. Racially they totally complemented each other on the battlefield. It would be the perfect army. (dwarfs lacked cavalry and magic and were slow, never quit, and just stood there takig it all -- but the elves added magic, long range firepower and speed). This combination was so very effective that GW set up a clever rule of animosity between elves and dwarfs when allied. (a direct opposite of another nice "contextual" race specific rule that goblins feared elves they didn't outnumber 2 to 1). Basically Dwarfs and Elves didn't trust each other when they were on the same side. Sadly I can't remember what animosity meant, but I think it was stuff like "units can't be too close" but I do remember if one race routed, the other ignored it.

I think this whole this CWEO could work if the CWEO army was very carefully balanced in a racial context. that way a CWEO army would be seen as a respected compromise- not just an excuse to field an Uber army. (EG: what if you said "no aspect warriors") ie give a CWEO player some really carefully constructed dis-insentive NOT to pick CWEO simply because  it gives him the best dark eldar choices and the best eldar choices he could want.

I am not going to go down the cynical road of complaining that all thats happening is a people want to add the Dark Eldar figures they were forced to buy with the 40k box set to their (already existing?) Eldar army and make a hybrid army with far too few weaknesses and far to much choice-

- and I conceed the CWEO fluff is excellent- althogh it might feel "forced" or "pushed" based on the preconcieved notion of "how can we amalgamate all my eldar models GW provide as allies and get away with it".

All I aam saying is lets have a fundamental downside to a CWEO army AND have a DISADVANTAGE to a player taking both Dark Eldar /Eldar together (like Dark Eldar must shoot at fleeing Eldar etc etc.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 05:18:35 AM by warfleet »
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Offline DRUID

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2003, 06:11:17 AM »
Hi all !!
I'm new to this forum and i like it already  ;D
I love the Eldar and would like them to reclaim what is rightfully theres (In the 40k Universe of course ;))
My Nanorathyr Craftworld is magnificent and i'm planning to put it on this site soon as soon as i get all of the info on the world bound craftworld Eldar (Ask me why if you want to know why my craftworld is world bound, but that info is also on it's way too)

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Offline Osar Siris

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2003, 06:25:49 AM »
warfleet, you are a little new to come here and assume that no one who is working on this project is considering this, personally I think they should feel a little insulted. If you had read the earlier posts on this very topic you would see that people have aready sarted discussing the ways to balance the so that it remains fair.

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Offline Champion Janus

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2003, 07:18:47 AM »
hehe that just means he thinks the project is very badass and he is just a jealous. Also notice he has 2 posts he must be another member from another board.

We're just continuing Eldar's fluff you don't have to care. CWEO is our craftworld. Racial issues eh? How about those damn marines? They are always played by most of the players, and we should stand up for our eldar race! Even though I don't play eldar  ;)

Balances are being thought up so just pay attention to the discussion instead of your rage on your jealousy...

It had a racial problem already when this site started.... What is the best single race site? Eldaronline.com
« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 07:23:43 AM by Champion Janus »
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Offline deDoc

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2003, 08:43:53 AM »
At the moment, we're going with the thought that all CWEO units are deployed together, and although are separated by squads, are not done so by detachments.

It will be considered otherwise, of course. We still have to work out the details, and all possibilities will be brought up in discussion.

Copule of reflections, if I may...

--1--  The "detachment" rule for larger (>2000 point armies) doesn't mean that squads of each detachment can't be deployed next to each other, save for certain types of scenarios.  It doesn't help those of us playing in normal-size games though...

--2--  It is possible that there may need to be three or four "official" approaches to fielding a CWEO army.  Given this summer's likely worldwide campaign, with Ulthwe's fate like to hang in the balance, a lot of us are going to want to field Sol-Shenestran forces.  I would like to bring one to Games Day, come to think on it...

Under the current rules, CWEO armies *cannot* be fielded in official GW sanctioned games  "as is".  Unless at least one of the "canon" approaches to the army list addresses this, the whole CWEO project fails at one of the basic goals of 40K... actually being able to PLAY the army.

Feedback is clear... people want to be able to field this craftworld.

I strongly recommend that consideration be given to establishing several "acceptable" approaches, at least some of which (like Agis') would allow a CWEO army to appear at our local Rogue Trader tournies, and duff up the hordes of Chaos.

Offline madman02

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2003, 09:32:48 AM »
Question- Is there a generally unified scheme that we are trying to achieve here. I understand it is more or less unity under a truly Eldar flag an trying to embrace the vastness of our race before the fall. But... Do we have anything planned as far as color schemes stories to represent how this has all come together. Bottom line is I would love to help. I am a decent painter, granted there are many who are far better than I, a poor artist and a pretty good fiction writer. What can I do for CWEO? There is obviously very much left to do....

Offline Addinarr

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2003, 02:21:16 PM »
deDoc:
1. Granted.
2. Y'know.....I do not believe we ever considered CWEO to be fielded by non-staff members. [An "Official" CWEO army, if you will]. This is a very interesting thought.
3. While we at EO, have been less than caring concerning GW's restrictions, it is true that CWEO will eventually enter a tournie as an entry army rather than a "club" army. We'll do what we can to make it legal. Of course, with the nature of some special characters we are planning and the current inclusion of Agis Neugebauer's Exodite rules, this may be difficult. Any ideas will be appreciated.

Warfleet: While it is true that we run the risk of "perfecting" an army, it should be noted that this is a completely different case from the Fantasy Elf & Dwarf army. The Elves and Dwarves were meant to be extreme opposites, meaning that their strengths and weaknesses complimented each other, contributing to a massively powerful army. However, in most regards, all the Eldar sub-sects have the same strengths and GLARING weaknesses. This leads us to believe a mixed Eldar force would in actuality be a simply more diverse Eldar army.

There will be some advantages this unification will provide, but we anticipate them to be small. We don't expect them to effect the army's overall strengths.

At the moment, I simply cannot see any special advantages this set-up would create. Although, perhaps you can.....
« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 02:27:58 PM by The_Sandman »

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Offline deDoc

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2003, 02:40:16 PM »

...

2. Y'know.....I do not believe we ever considered CWEO to be fielded by non-staff members. [An "Official" CWEO army, if you will]. This is a very interesting thought.

--shaking his head gently, grinning--

It doesn't say "community" on the url for nothing, yannow?

Even if all I do is field a "proxy-oid" army, along the lines Agis inspired and I have suggested, I definitely look to field a Solenenstran force for the summer's defense of Ulthwe.  I suspect lots of others are contemplating doing so too.  It's a great way to publically identify with the EO community... at least as good as Tshirts and hats.  ;-)

I suppose the staff has the right to say "no"... but if you're going to do so, make this a staff-only project in all manner and wise, please tell us SOON.  Lots of us want to come to the party as well. ;D

Offline Addinarr

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2003, 02:57:25 PM »
*Shrugs sheepishly*

We [or atleast, some of us] had assumed there would only be one CWEO army. The thought that the army might be so massive so as to multiple forces could be fighting around the galaxy simply never crossed our minds. At least not mine.

We had assumed most would be simply willing to fight with their own normal forces with the goals of Solenestra in mind.

With this new thought, I guess I'd better start thinking up some rules in time for the EoT campaigns....

And while we would love to give the community shirts and caps for purchase, it would seem that a certain company has greatly disapproved of any possibility of earning even the slightest profit. I wonder if Raine has figured out a new way yet.....

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Offline deDoc

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2003, 04:32:02 PM »
*Shrugs sheepishly*

We [or atleast, some of us] had assumed there would only be one CWEO army. The thought that the army might be so massive so as to multiple forces could be fighting around the galaxy simply never crossed our minds. At least not mine.

We had assumed most would be simply willing to fight with their own normal forces with the goals of Solenestra in mind.

well heck.  There are LOTS of folks who collect, for example, Ulthwe armies...  ;)

Surely this was an inevitable question.  

Quote
With this new thought, I guess I'd better start thinking up some rules in time for the EoT campaigns....

Please feel free to use my suggestion as a starter-seed, in case people have to field armies in compliance with RT rules...

Quote
And while we would love to give the community shirts and caps for purchase, it would seem that a certain company has greatly disapproved of any possibility of earning even the slightest profit. I wonder if Raine has figured out a new way yet.....


*grins*  If you post various EO graphics at a download page, community members can at least generate homebrew Tshirts using printer transfer paper....

gracious.  I hardly meant to be such a... rabble-rouser.  

;D

Offline deDoc

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2003, 04:36:47 PM »
While we're on the subject...

--will we see BFG fleets in Solenestran colors?

--Colors... White and blue dominant, yes?

--Has anyone designed the Solenestran rune, or chosen it from the runic font?  (If not, may I volunteer to take a whack at it?)

Offline Addinarr

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2003, 04:45:07 PM »
Quote
*grins*  If you post various EO graphics at a download page, community members can at least generate homebrew Tshirts using printer transfer paper....

gracious.  I hardly meant to be such a... rabble-rouser.  

We may do just that. I seem to remember this possibility being discussed....

Until we actually GET a fleet, we have no plans to create a Solenestra WarFleet. Shame, but 40K comes first. And that's a bit slow.....

At the moment, our Craftworld symbol is the Rune of History, which I shall now crudely duplicate:
/\
(I)

if someone creates a better one, maybe we can convince Raine to use it...

« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 04:47:10 PM by The_Sandman »

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Offline Malika

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2003, 05:05:34 PM »
Titan clans too? that would be cool!!!  :D but eh, do the exodites live on the craftworld? or on it's colonies? if it has any...

Offline TheMightyPikachu

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2003, 11:55:06 PM »
Well, you could always offer up allied craftworlds (made up ones, i have qualms with using official stuff, like Ulthwe or bloodangels for fluff)

Or allied corsairs/outcast groups
CWEO should not be seen as a definite set idea or list, it's maleable and flowing. Though i doubt a 'codex' with all its stuff listed with org. charts will come out : /
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Offline The Fabulous Warfleet Game Author

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Re:Craftworld EldarOnline
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2003, 05:07:25 AM »
Sandmand: thanks for setting me straight. I am so sorry I got the wrong end of the stick entirely. I am really sorry.

I also realise I was heavy handed in my comments before, I was actually coming at this from my own angle. Let me explain:

You see, I assumed you were proposing a codex. An albeit optional one. But significant becasue (This might be news to you - or not)  I feel a eldaronline codex suggestions would be well recieved by the WH40k community at large. Period. Because WH40K players will take what is said here seriously. It could soon have become "odd" for an ork or marine player NOT to let his eldar friend CWEO codex rules!.

That was the thing: I was just afraid that a lot of hard work would be "wasted" (though since CWEO was never a codex then this argument is moot) if the new ?codex? wasn't percived as being fair - as far as playing standards go - right from the off.

This was from the perspective of someone who doesn't play eldar anymore.

I wanted to say "hey if you are careful (read: fair) this thing could really GO BIG"

But having said ALL that stuff ::: I agree with you about the less significant beneift of a cojoining between the character eldar and Dark eldar. They are already pretty similar. (Although I would take  Dark Eldar Warriors over Guardians any day of the week ;))

But good luck to you all doing this. I am looking forward to some wonderful ideas.
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