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Author Topic: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list  (Read 3234 times)

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Offline ComradeChairman

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Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« on: March 23, 2013, 06:37:14 AM »
Having played Tyranid for years and getting fed up with smashing apart any opponent almost every time I take to the field I have been drawn closer to DE and particularly like these two characters.  I am toying with converting to DE for the first time ever.  Been thinking of a fast and maneuverable force lead by Sath with Hesp coming along just to keep her skills honed.  To be honest - I like the models so want a list built around models I like rather than some sort of tourney list. I think I can have some fun with this list and don't mind at all if I never win so long as my opponent and I have a great deal of fun throughout the game. I also want to keep my brain ticking over having to think tactically each turn.  Please pick apart/comment:

HQ Sathonyx
Troop 15x hellion, helliarch, stunclaw
Troop 15/hellion as above with PGL
HQ Hesparax
Troop 5x Wyches, shardnet, Hekatrix, PGL, Venomblade in Venom with 2nd Canon
Troop 5x Wyches as above

Elite 4x Bloodbrides, shardnet in Venom wit 2nd canon (Hesparax goes in here)
Elite 5x Trueborn with blasters and DL in Venom with 2nd canon
Elite 5x trueborn as above

Fast Attack 6x reavers, blasters, caltrops, champion venomblade

That should be short of 2000 points.  I don't want to exceed 2000 points after a bit of padding out.



Offline Ludo

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2013, 08:07:33 AM »
It looks like you've got almost 200 points to play around with still.  You have a huge gaping problem with this list.  You have almost no anti-tank outside the trueborn.  If an opponent can blow up the venoms the explosion will kill 2/3s of them. 

HQ Sathonyx
Troop 15x hellion, helliarch, stunclaw
Troop 15/hellion as above with PGL

I don't care for hellions myself but I would max out whatever squad you plan to put the Baron in.

Troop 5x Wyches, shardnet, Hekatrix, PGL, Venomblade in Venom with 2nd Canon
Troop 5x Wyches as above

Elite 4x Bloodbrides, shardnet in Venom wit 2nd canon (Hesparax goes in here)

I would get rid of the bloodbrides.  They aren't much more effective than wyches and they are expensive.  I woul put one squad in a raider, put a few more wyches in the squad, give the hekatrix a special weapon, (venom blades are my preference, I believe you get the killiness for the points from them) give all of them haywire grenades, and join lelith to the larger squad. They come with grenades so the PGL isn't really needed. You should be charging with your wyches not taking the charge.

quote author=ComradeChairman link=topic=225893.msg2722652#msg2722652 date=1364035034]
Fast Attack 6x reavers, blasters, caltrops, champion venomblade
[/quote]

That's alot of points into a vulnerable model.  Drop some of the upgrades and spend the points on more models.  I would either go anti-tank or anti-infantry.  I like the caltrops on them.  Just keep them moving flat out and attacking with bladevanes.

quote author=ComradeChairman link=topic=225893.msg2722652#msg2722652 date=1364035034]
Elite 5x Trueborn with blasters and DL in Venom with 2nd canon
Elite 5x trueborn as above
[/quote]

Drop the 5th model.  Just a waste of points

You need some long range anti-tank.  I would go ravagers but razorwings/voidravens work.
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Offline Plastikente

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2013, 12:50:25 PM »
I'm with Ludo on the Bloodbrides, and to an extent on the Reavers.  Blasters and caltrops are both fairly expensive, and you can only use one of them each turn.  Personally, I would stick with the Blaster because it lets you take on vehicles.

As for the Trueborn, I would drop the 5th 1 with Dark Lance.  One of the big advantages of a Venom is the mobility, particularly to get the Blasters in range.  But if you move, you can only snap-fire the DL, and it's a very expensive toy if you need 6s to hit.

You don't have any Heavy Support in that list, and that is one of the strongest areas of the army.  I would grab at least one Ravager for ranged anti-tank, or a Razorwing to act as a Voidraven bomber.

Offline ComradeChairman

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2013, 01:48:22 PM »
Many thanks - I guess I am still thinking like a Nid. I was intending anti armour to come from short range Blasters and assaulting with Haywire grenades rather than long range sniping.  However I can certainly see your point that some long range anti armour is sensible.  I have amended as follows;

HQ Baron Sathonyx
Troop 15x Hellion, Helliarch, Stunclaw
Troop 13 x Hellion as above with PGL

HQ Lelith Hesparax
Troop 9x Wyches, Shardnet, Hekatrix,  Venomblade, with Haywire Grenades in Raider with Flickerfield and chain snares.
Troop 10x Wyches 2x shardnet, Hekatrix, Venomblade, with Haywire Grenades in Raider with Flickerfield and chain snares

Elite 4x Trueborn with blasters in Venom with 2nd canon
Elite 4x Trueborn as above

Fast Attack 6x reavers, blasters, caltrops.

Heavy  Ravager with flickerfield
Heavy  Ravager with flickerfield

1994 points

I might max out one Hellion unit as suggested and use the other as a distraction and/or hopeful last minute objective grab.  I have seen the arguments for and against Reavers but I like the models so I just have to have them in the list and hope they take pressure off the rest of the army.  I also like the idea of the Hellions grabbing and isolating an IC for the Wyches to have some fun with - in fact, irrespective of the scenario we are playing, my objective will be always to try to do that - it just seems right and fitting with the Hellion background. Again, fitting with the background, I intend for Lelith to focus on killing enemy ICs so why wouldn't she enlist the help of a Hellion fly-by grab and deliver? If I loose the game on points but have a great time trying to manage that trick, then so much the better in my view.


Offline nawari

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2013, 05:17:05 PM »
your list is looking alot better! to save points i would drop the flickerfields on the raiders, since you will automatically gain a jink save just for moving, and trust me you will be moving! also the chain snares are a bit meh, but if you like the idea stick with them and give them a go.

the good thing with your list is that you have alot of threats for your enemy to focus on, the down side is that you do not have alot of staying power. as with all DE lol, we are a glass cannon race and you will soon find out once you start playing. so go all out on offensive, and pick your targets wisely.

now that i think about it i would drop the shardnets on the whych squads aswell, reason being is that when your raider blows up (and it will) you will lose 2/3 of your wych squad. sometimes i have lost all!!! so the cheaper you keep them the less hurt you will feel when it happens lol. another tip aswell, the PGL on whyches is not such a bad idea because with defensive grenades you can gain a better cover save when charging units in cover for overwatch. it has saved the 4 wyches that made it out of my raider a few times lol.

finally, welcome to the dark kin! i hope we can help and im happy to see another potential player :)
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Offline Ludo

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 08:23:41 PM »
Fast Attack 6x reavers, blasters, caltrops.

Heavy  Ravager with flickerfield
Heavy  Ravager with flickerfield

I'm still not a fan of reavers, especially one with divided interests.  I'd go two blasters or two caltrops.

Ravagers get a cover save equal to their flickerfield when they move.  For this reason I put nightshields on mine. Other than that I have no major complaints for your list.

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Offline ComradeChairman

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2013, 05:50:39 AM »
Many thanks guys.  I will put that together and see how it goes.  Should be fun if nothing else.

Offline Revener

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2013, 11:53:58 AM »
Flickerfield may not be needed all time since ther is a jink save, but its very good to have when you don't get the first turn and also it works if you get assaulted.

PGL may not be that useful either but it gives you a covers save (stealth againts shooting within a certain distance) when you assault a unit and only cost as much as a wych.

and heavy support....I  hardly ever use heavy support with my DE, close combat is much more effective anti tank anyway, Instead of a Ravager that always dissapoint you :) . If I use HS I tend to run with a 1-3 talos in lists above 1700p.

I've actually done pretty well without Heavy support, in tournaments too.

Wyches have haywire grenades and almost every other unit can at least kill rear armour 10 in CC due furious charge.

Never liked it when ppl say that you need more AT :)  get more DL's get ravages  get .. bla bla bla ;)

I've stomped all over car park IG morfe then once with hardly any ranged AT at all.

TBH I think my DL's and blasters kill more marines/characters then vehicles :)

btw a cheap and sometimes game saving vehicle upgrade are grisly trophies so you don't fumble that very important CC you really need to stay in 1 more turn too get the rest of your army where you want it.
Chain snares seems kind of meh because if you want to use them your vehicle doesn't always end up where you want it.

my own list lately have been

-Urien
+ haemi depending on points

3 grots

2xwracks in raiders
2x warriors with blaster in venom
2x wych in raider, pgl, ago, haywire, FF,NS,GT

10 khymeras

10 khymeras or 2 units of wracks with furious charge dish out alot of wounds when you charge :)


Hellions - some ppl like to bash them but they have always worked fine for me

I would probably drop Lelith myself though and flesh out the list or  get some haemis.
Anyway......

Offline Ludo

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 11:22:10 AM »
@Revener: I think we have had very different experiences with our ravagers.  I think they are one of the best heavy support choices in the game not just one of the best for DE.  Though once you pop enemy transports so that the wyches can attack the troops inside the guns usually get turned onto anything with a 2+ or 3+ save.  Nothing like watching 3 ravagers turn their guns on a marine squad and virtually wipe it out.

@comradechairman: I'd love to hear how the changes you made worked in combat.
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Offline Revener

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 05:09:07 PM »
Well of course 3! ravagers are effective :P
Anyway......

Offline ComradeChairman

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #10 on: April 1, 2013, 06:00:39 AM »
Thanks guys.  I won't be using the Army until it is fully painted and that will take me a few weeks.  I have Nids, DKOK, Tau and a Grot army to keep me gaming (yes a Grot army - does very well as they are just awesome as everyone underestimates them!)  I have assembled everything for my DE and have to say that it looks impressive but very fragile. I went with my gut feeling and the models I liked best so my original list has been tweaked slightly based upon feedback from yourselves and other DE experienced players.  I am sticking with my original concept of Sath and his swarms of Hellions backed up by Lelith and her coven but the army seems more balanced now.  It is not a competition list (I have my Nids and Tau for that).

Offline Draz

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Re: Just starting - Sathonyx/Hesparax fun list
« Reply #11 on: October 1, 2013, 10:10:38 AM »
Hey, just got back on to the forums, but here's the thing i've noticed with 6th ed and DE.

Reavers turbo boost, they get a better cover save (jink save given when TB, Skilled rider gives improvement).  So when your TB around the field using bladevanes and caltrops, you can deal some dmg and be fairly survivable.  I use a squad of 9 (cause only 3 come to a box), and mainly use them for harrass.  I don't bother getting caltrops or grav-talon, as they are pointless.  I do put 3 blasters on them, just in case my opponent moves and I see a prime vehicle target within 12".  Also, never forget about the free move that jetbikes get in the assault phase.  I have TB'd into some pretty dangerous areas, then had that extra move save the squad.  Also, Skilled rider allows you to automatically pass all dangerous terrain tests, so have them end in cover to make them duck out of LOS.

As for heavy support....I have run a few games with a ravager or 2, but really its not neccessary.  you get a free DL or DC with every Raider.  Field 8 Raiders with DL and there is your anti-tank, and your not even having to spend extra points for the weapon.  So if you have a squad that can take a Raider, take it, even if you don't intend to use it as a transport for that squad.  Its a low cost, highly mobile, and often forgettable DL.  I have has so many players forget about my transports, that don't have any troops embraked, until the DL shoots and pops a land raider.  Never underestimate the psychological effect fielding 10 vehicles in 2000 point army can have.

For hellions. I love them.  They do take a bit of finesse to work out.  Not survivable enough to take hits to get into close combat, but great on the ambush.  so try to get them in a situation where they can make a sudden attack, or a suprise against their opponent.  Webway portals on archons are great for this, since they can assault in the turn they come in, and odn't have be all the way back away from the fight.  Only trick is getting your webway portal out far enough :)
Stunclaw is great for somethings, but with challenges now, that means your squishy hellion going against a tanky IC, your helliarch is going to get owned before you can use HnR.  This has happened 4/5 times i've tried to use it.

Well, GL with your army.  And hopefully by now you've gotten a chance to play it.

[mod]I've removed the copyright infringing stats from your post, we all have the codex and Rulebook so there's no need to spell it all out - also I'm going to overlook the lateness of the reply this once as I'm fairly sure it'd have been on the front page but watch it in future, April was ages ago..... Changeyname[/mod]
« Last Edit: October 1, 2013, 01:11:41 PM by Changeyname »

 


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