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Author Topic: C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points  (Read 2047 times)

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Offline Halberd-Blue

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C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« on: October 26, 2002, 08:54:54 PM »
Here is a 2500 points 1 detachment battle Culeagh and I just had tonight.  I was using the Iyanden list and Culeagh used Vanilla (and with how many aspect warriors it had one would think it would fit into Biel-Tan but it didn't!).

The C'Nesha craftworld uses the Iyanden, Biel-Tan, or Vanilla list.  Culeagh just got a crap load of tanks, so I decided to use a Wraithguard heavy Iyanden list.

Heres my list:

-HQ-
Farseer – 86
-Witchblade
-Shuripistol
-Fortune
-RoW
-Ghosthelm

Farseer – 86
-Witchblade
-Shuripistol
-Fortune
-RoW
-Ghosthelm

-Elites-
3 Death Jesters – 216
-Bright Lances

3 Death Jesters – 216
-Bright Lances

-Troops-
10 Wraithguard – 425
Iyanna Arienal

10 Wraithguard – 397
Warlock
-Conceal
-Witchblade
-Shuripistol

10 Wraithguard – 397
Warlock
-Conceal
-Witchblade
-Shuripistol

10 Wraithguard – 383
Warlock
-Conceal
-CCW
-Shuripistol

Wraithlord – 120
-Starcannon
-2 Flamers

Wraithlord - 120
-Starcannon
-2 Flamers

-Independant-
Spiritseer – 50
-Enhance
-Shuripistol
-Witchblade

Culeagh said about posting the Batrep on EO, so I'll let him post his army list here and give a general overview of his army.

The army consisted of a full squad of Dark Reapers with Exarch and a Farseer guiding them, 2 Falcons, both with a Starcannon, Pulse Laser, and Holo-field, one of the falcons holding 5 banshees and an Exarch, and then 5 Wave Serpent with a mix of Bright Lances and Starcannons, 3 of them with full squads of Dire Avengers w/ Exarch w/ Power Sword and Distract, and the other 2 with full squads of scorps w/ exarch w/scorp claw and crushing blow/biting blade and crushing blow.  Oh yeah, he also had an Avatar (making 3 HQ but I let him because I was taking Harlequins)

We had someone at the store who plays 40k but who wasn't playing set up the terrain, and I thought of a scenario from it (instead of the normal thing we do, just rolling on a mission table and use the standard force organization chart).  The board the Tau player set up had a river enclosing a little more than a quarter of the board (and we made the river as "very difficult terrain" where we roll 1d6 for movement through it (though through the game Culeagh wanted to save his Falcon from my Wraithguard and decided to change it to 1d6 divided by 2)) and heavy terrain inside the river enclosed area (I think we used up 4 or 5 hills filling it up (its on a 4x4 board).  The Tau player said it was supposed to be a mountain, and then the outer part of the board had random scattered terrain.  One clump of trees he placed in the river made a big difference in the game though, so I have to note that.

So from this terrain, I came up with an idea for a scenario.  The Defender is allowed to set up anywhere behind the River (he has the advantage of being on higher ground, you see) and the other player deploys on the other 3 sides of the board within 10 or so" of the edge (though we let one wave serpent slip by so that he could box me in).  Random Game length, (we didn't decide on infiltrators/deep strikers since neither of us had them) and for each unit about 50% strength or non-damaged vehicle on one of two hills I pointed out he got an extra 100 victory points.  The victor was decided by who had more.

Looking back, it sounded balanced at the time (for a mission made up on the spot) but now I realize it favored me since he had to drive his tanks right up to me and that helps my 40 Wraithguard short range.  Maybe if it was 150 VP per unit on the hills...

So I ended out deploying my entire army before he had deployed a single model (I must've done it subconciously because of the imbalance, you see).

Then it came down to deciding who was attacker and defender.  My Iyanden army, with all units moving/assaulting 6", obviously had very little chance at getting near the objective (especially with 6 squads of infantry to march through while being shot at by 7 tanks and a squad of Dark Reapers), would obviously perform very poorly attacking like that.  Similarly, his army would have little use for all its mobility with 7 tanks, so we agreed on me being the defender and him being the attacker, with attacker going first.

I set up quite random in my deployment zone since, like I said, I had deployed my entire army before he deployed a single model.

His tanks mostly made a L shape around me and took out a good 6 or  wraithguard and a Wraithlord on the first turn.  He decided to shoot at me a turn before going in.  At the time I thought it was a good idea, but now I don't because he might have been able to actually have a squad in the objective, giving him a draw instead of a loss in the end.

So I returned fire by firing all 6 Death Jesters and my remaining Wraithlord into the Falcon carrying the Banshees.  Now that had to be my biggest mistake the entire game.  I HAD his army list (in my messages section of EO, though) and could've known he had Holo-fields.  But after I had already devoted one shot to the Falcon, I dumped all my firepower onto it, with the Spirit Stones nullifying everything except a "cannot shoot next turn" result.  At the time I must've thought that Wave Serpents could have holo-fields too, becuase I probably could've taken out one or maybe even 2 if I hadn't shot at the Falcon (and I was rolling pretty good, if they were leadership tests).

So after my terrible blunder, I hung my head in shame.  He charged in with his Wave Serpents...

TO BE CONTINUED... (this is where you come in Culeagh)
"The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal."

Offline Culeagh

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2002, 01:08:11 AM »


The first Eouk armored strike force consisted of:

-HQ-

Avatar of Khaela Mensha Khaine - 80
(this additional HQ was allowed due to the benevolence of my opponent)

-Suin Daellae, the Wailing Doom

Note- This was the only model that was untransportable and added at the last minute to help out against the fearless Wraithguard. His main purpose was to be within 12" of the assault units, thereby Inspiring them to also be fearless.

Note- if the third HQ (Avatar) was not allowed I had a slightly different HQ adding Mind War and a single spirit stone to the farseers... but this was not the case.

Idainn Ilwrath, Farseer - 86 (this farseer accompanied the first scorpions squad)

-Fortune
-Ghost Helm
-Runes of Witnessing
-Witchblade
-Shuriken Pistol

Idainn Culeagh, Farseer - 81

-Guide
-Ghost Helm
-Runes of Witnessing
-Sword
-Pistol


-Troops- 876
Esik Caman, 27 Dire Avengers, 3 Exarchs, 3 squads -

-3 Power Swords and Shuriken Pistols
-all three exarchs with Distract
-3 Wave Serpents
   -Twin-linked Starcannons
   -Spirit Stones
   -Vectored Engines

Note- my Dire Avengers ride in style  ;D


-Elites-

Mean Tokath, 8 Striking Scorpions, 1 Exarch - 311

-Scorpions Claw
-Wave Serpent
   -Twin-linked Brightlances
   -Spirit Stones
   -Vectored Engines

Mean Tokath, 9 Striking Scorpions, 1 Exarch - 327

-Biting Blade
-Crushing Blow
-Wave Serpent
   -Twin-linked Brightlances
   -Spirit Stone
   -Vectored Engines

Suin Mure, 5 Howling Banshees, 1 Exarch - 125
-Executioner
-Acrobatic

-Heavy Support-

otBuanna, 4 Dark Reapers, 1 Exarch - 233
-Eldar Missile Launcher
-Fast Shot

Falcon - 195
-Pulse Laser
-Starcannon
-Holo-field
-Spirit Stones
-Vectored Engines

Falcon - 195
-Pulse Laser
-Starcannon
-Holo-field
-Spirit Stone
-Vectored Engines

Army Total - 2509 points.



And so the table was set as Badoom has told you. The biggest problem was how to approach an army that consisted (almost exclusively, save for a single warlock) of models that could kill my tanks.

To get within range of dropping my troops my off I had to either move forward maximum distance with all transports and clear the super-difficult terrain, risking 40 odd Wraithcannon the Spear of Teuthlas and six brightlances or stand back for a bit and shoot. I chose discretion as the better part of valor...

The Reapers were deployed in a small, open bunker with their Farseer and the Avatar near at hand. All were in a corner, more or less, opposite the entirety of the Iyanden force. A small stand of trees shielded the reapers from return fire as they were deployed at range. The tanks were fanned out in an L-shape with the close combat specialists to the left and the dire avengers to the right. The falcon assigned to the reapers was deployed hull down to the rightl but near at hand in case they needed to get lost in a hurry.

As the attacker in our scenario I elected to take my initial movement and -shift- around laterally with the tanks and transports so as to avoid armor penetration and the 12" range Wraithcannons. The Avatar moved forward his maximum, shielded from fire by range and the same stand of trees that shielded the reapers.

I started by firing the reapers (a slight error, they should have waited) at the only wraithlord in sight, wounding it twice. You've got to love crack missiles.

The combined fire of the falcons, two pulse lasers and a starcannon, amounting to six shots total, finished it off.

The remainder of my fire was concentrated entirely on the nearest squad of wraithguard, containing Iyanna Arienal, who shall from here on to the end of time be revered for her bravery. Six of the wraithguard were felled after conceal saves had been made. Not bad. Not bad.

I turned the dice over to my friend and awaited retaliation.

Quote
So after my terrible blunder, I hung my head in shame.  He charged in with his Wave Serpents...

... And prepared for the worst. Wraithguard at short range are very difficult opponents at the best of times and this was a difficult situation.

In the first turn all but two of my grav-tanks had moved laterally and so were no closer to the objective of occupying the high ground. The only way to be expiditious was to move 24" and see what happens. The Dire Avengers, Banshees (only moved 12") and one Scorpion squad urgered their pilots forward with all haste and were rewarded by not crashing in the rocky river (vectored engines saved five of my tanks!),
but were most definitely in range of being shot by numerous Wraithcannons in the next turn. Their was no way around it. To get the troops in, I had to risk it.

My only shooting in this turn was from the reapers fire base, the hull down falcon and a serpent with lances that hung back (for lack of space!) in the armored cavalry charge. Both grav-tanks that held back
managed a single wound on the wraithlord! HOORAY!

The reapers were left with slim pickings. The only thing in sight through the mayhem of armored vehicles were a few wraithguards (three) in the back of the formation whom they duly dispatched. It is interesting to note that an independent character, a death jester, actually blocked line of sight to another wraithguard due to the characters in 6" rule!

The falcon that carried the Banshees had only moved 12" and so the Suin Mure disembarked in the movement phase and charged the first wraithguard squad in the formation (using fleet of foot 4" to cross the river). This squad had been the target of the previous turns bombardment and was severely depleted. I thought they would rip it up. But as it happened, the only thing that got ripped up was one out of four Wraithguard felled by the Exarch. Return attacks were negated by good armor saves...

And so I turned the dice over to my honorable opponent.
He had five grav-tanks and a besieged wraithguard squad in his front yard to deal with....

The response was going to be blistering.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2002, 02:00:07 AM by Culeagh »
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Offline Halberd-Blue

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2002, 07:45:46 AM »
I ate 10 airheads last night (its a kind of candy, I don't know if they have it in other countrys) and I think that was all that was preserving my bad memory.  But, I must try to remember!

Okay, turn turn, my turn.

Being able to fire with my Wraithguard on turn 2 was a treat, he had already told me he was going to stay back a turn and fire but after how successful he was, I thought he was going to do it again (or maybe me bonking myself on the head muttering about how stupid it was of me to waste all that fire on the holo-field falcon that let him know I wasn't going to try it again).

With Iyanna and her squad in assault with the puny Banshees (I think you made an error there about the assault, I think it was me that knocked down one of your numbers and you just weren't lucky (you weren't lucky the entire battle  :-\ )), they couldn't fire at the two Wave Serpents about to let out a bunch of angry scorps, so now I had to destroy one or the other with the squad of Wraithguard behind it.  Not knowing/remembering what was inside of them, I fired at the one closest, so I could get all my shots in.  As was expected, it crashed and burned, killing no scorpions (they had that evil fortune-casting farseer with them).

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I was casting fortune the entire battle, but not a single armor save was made that I had to re-roll, believe it or not, so I need not mention my Farseers' dislike for helping the Dead.

Culeagh, in all his benevolence and generosity, let me move my Wraithguard squad and ignore the phase order so I could get them in range of one of the Wave Serpents.  My other squad at the river-borderline took out a Wave Serpent with ease, as did the one I just moved forward.

My Death Jesters and Wraithlord did NOTHING that turn.  I'm going to reconsider throwing Death Jesters into an Iyaden army...  They would've made nice Dark Reapers assasin if I gave them Phase Fields.

Then, my Wraithguard squads that downed one of the Dire Avenger Wave Serpents charged into the weakened squads, and taking no casualties, the brought one squad down to 3 men, they fell back, and the other squad took 3 casualties I think, but were within 12" of the Avatar so were Fearless.

Dire Avengers not getting to shoot!  That must really stink!   ;)

The Banshees vs. Iyanna and her squad assault turned sour, as the Exarch took out 2 Wraithguard and my... uh... dead soldiers and a women did nothing in return.

Though I had knocked down 3 Wave Serpents, stopped a Dire Avenger squad from being a threat, and was going to kill another, I felt disappointed about the turn.

It was time for the Scorps of doom to come.
"The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal."

Offline Culeagh

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2002, 02:15:18 PM »
In one turn I had lost 17 dire avengers, 1 scorpion and three wave serpents! I knew the return fire was going to be bad but the result turned out to be ridiculously bad.  Well no matter, I had 8 scorps, 6 banshees and a farseer with fortune on foot on the right side of the river with another transport about to disembark. They had multiple targets within range but one was a wraithlord!  Yikes.

The last serpent containing scorpions swung in over the river and spun around exposing its rear armor (wraithguard don't care if it's AV 10 or AV 12) so it's payload didn't have to waste time in the river. They were in range to support the Banshees and so charged in. The first squad with the farseer used it's movement to bypass the combat with the banshees and charged the wraithguard flanking that combat. The Avatar stumbled into the river to support the three Dire Avengers still in the fight, but the super-difficult terrain kept his movement down to a measly one inch. The last serpent containing a full squad of Dire Avengers boosted
forward deep into enemy territory. The Avengers got out and fired 19 shots at a Death Jester, failing to even wound him due to appalling dice rolls! The plan with them was to shoot one then charge the other, so much for the plan, they charged the first, dropping him for the loss of an Avenger.

The rest of my shooting consisted of one guided falcon
firing its pulse laser once and its starcannon, one serpent firing its twin-linked starcannons, one more serpent firing its brightlance and the reapers. All shots were aimed at the Wraithlord bearing down on my Avatar. After the smoke had cleared the wraithlord was still coming. I had failed to wound it further. Uh Oh.

The combat between the banshee exarch (as the other banshees had a hard time wounding wraithguard), scorpions and the wraithguard resulted in all the wraithguard falling. This left only Iyanna Arienal. If you've never fought against her you need to forget it. The armor of Vaul equates to slightly worse than a 2+ invulnerable save! She made about 10 armor saves. Her few attacks resulted in nothing. She passed her leadership test and stayed in the fight, surrounded and outnumbered 16 to one. She effectively stopped my assault for an entire turn! I was amazed.

The other scorpions, who were on their own with the Farseer, had moved into base to base with another squad of wraithguard and proceeded to wound everyone of them at least once, but wraithguard with fortune are tough critters. Only two or three dropped due to bad luck. The retaliation was enormous. Somehow a Farseer, a Spiritseer, a Warlock and about four wraithguard were still in attack range. After all the numbers needed for the various differing unit types was worked out something like ten wounds were dished out. But fortuned scorpions are tough critters too. I didn't lose anyone. Then the scorpion's claw swung.

"Are you ready to lose them all?"  I said. Hah I should've kept my mouth shut. The exarch only connected with two hits but those were enough to drop two more wraithguard. That left me in a good spot with those scorps as they weren't exposed to any guns next turn and they effectively shielded the Banshees and the other Scorps with such a large, spread out combat.

The fearless Dire Avengers still stuck in the river and now surrounded by Wraithguard struck for all they worth. Too bad it wasn't worth much. They failed to wound the wraithguard, and were further depleted.

The Avatar was not in range to charge anyone, but a Wraithlord was in range to charge him next turn. Uh Oh.

And that was the top of the third inning. Iyanden was up to bat and I was running out of fast balls...
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Offline Halberd-Blue

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2002, 04:38:58 PM »
(I realize this is becoming an exceedingly long battle report but oh well (and I showed you last night, Culeagh, the Armor of Vault save is equivalent to a 2+ invul! (not slightly worse)))

Disheartened at the lost of Iyanna, I had to move on.  My Farseers aren't going to stay in the Council of C'Nesha for much longer, I thought, as I rolled my saves during Culeagh's shooting and assauting.

Ah, I remember what happened in the third turn now.  OK.

Culeagh had to leave at the start of my turn so I moved my squad of Wraithguard that annihilated his Dire Avengers toward his Falcon through the super-difficult terrain and was able to get 4 of my Wraithguard in range.  My other squad of Wraithguard that wasn't in assault moved towards the Dire Avengers that killed my almighty Death Jester in HtH, with me thinking I could shoot them, except they were in HtH with my other DJ and I didn't notice!  I also moved my 2 Farseers towards the Wave Serpent to destroy it with Witchblades, and wanted to shoot up the Dire Avengers with my Wraithguard.  My Wraithlord moved towards the Wave Serpent that had crossed the river.

Since Culeagh was on an errand, I had awhile to strategize.  It was a pity I didn't notice I couldn't fire at the Dire Avengers, but in the end it was probably better, because 2 Farseers aren't guaranteed at destroying a Wave Serpent (I forgot about hitting on a 6) and then I would have to bang myself on the head for letting that Wave Serepent live, grabbing him an extra 100 VP (though I still would have won).

The store recently got a candy stand thing and I didn't notice it (and I love candy) and so the Tau players buys some shock tarts and gives me the purple ones.  I was wondering where he got them but I didn't ask.  Then I noticed the candy stand thing and bought 2 variety packs of air-heads for $1.18.  Normally I see variety packs for $.99 each but the hobby store it was $.59  ;D

My Wraithguard obliterated the Wave Serpent and then brought the Dire Avengers to 50% strength, denying him the VP for that squad and 100 VP for being on the hill.

The Wraithlord did nothing to the Wave serpent, and the other Wraithguard squad blasted that Falcon into the Warp.

Disappointed at my performance, my car slowed down to let my opponentpass me on the last lap...
"The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal."

Offline xmaster

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2002, 05:06:43 PM »
Really good report. I think that Culeagh was really unlucky. Instead of you chosing a force who is attacking alot then I think you should've deployed a firepower army with War Walkers and Fire Dragons and Guardian Defender squads with Star Cannon. And the point where you missed all the shots at the Death Jester...it's like  :o . But I think the report is very good. I don't know if it's done...but I like it. Keep the reports coming!
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Offline Culeagh

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2002, 05:46:38 PM »
X master, I could have gone for a stand off army, but that's not what I wanted to use. The tanks are all shiny and new.

Additionally the terrain allowed me the (boring) option of standing back and shooting him up with mass heavy weapons while the death jesters and wraithlords scrambled into range. The wraithguard weren't going to even be a threat in this scenario and that wouldn't have been any fun. I chose to make it a fun game and went for it. Besides, I had to possess or contest the high ground in as few as four turns (random game length).

I know you made a chart that show it to be 2+, Badoom, but that doesn't take this into account. Out of 11 possible results on 2d6, only 3 will result in armor failure. 2+ save equals a ~16.5% of failure. 3 out of 11 equals about ~27% chance of failure. Better than 3+ not as good as 2+. Anway...



Wasn't that the last turn we were able to play? After the DJ got the Exarch, and the Wraithguard charged the squad of Dire Avengers I don't remember doing anything with them after that. Same with the scorps and banshees. Hmm.

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Offline Halberd-Blue

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2002, 04:53:15 PM »
Well *cough* we kinda skipped turn 3, cause nothing really happened (apparently you forgot it too).  I just remembered now because I don't remember you wiping out that Wraithguard squad with Iyanna in 2 turns.

But in the end I won by some 400 VP or something.

Culeagh:
  1 2 3 4 5 6
12 3 4 5 6 7
23 4 5 6 7 8
34 5 6 7 8 9
45 6 7 8 9 10
56 7 8 9 10 11
67 8 9 10 11 12

36 possible results (not 11).

Count how many are above 6.

6/36=1/6
1/6=1/6

9 or less on 2d6=5/6
2 or higher on 1d6=5/6

See?
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Offline Culeagh

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2002, 05:11:25 PM »
So, ah, rematch?

Well *cough* we kinda skipped turn 3, cause nothing really happened (apparently you forgot it too).  I just remembered now because I don't remember you wiping out that Wraithguard squad with Iyanna in 2 turns.

Yeah, now that you mention it, it did take me a longer than I thought to take out that first wraithguard squad.
Probably two turns to get the four surviving wraithguard and I think we go Iyanna in the next. So at the end of my fourth turn they had no one to fight.
I'll try to write down details of the next fight.

Quote
But in the end I won by some 400 VP or something.

Yup, you kicked my butt.


Quote
Culeagh:
  1 2 3 4 5 6
12 3 4 5 6 7
23 4 5 6 7 8
34 5 6 7 8 9
45 6 7 8 9 10
56 7 8 9 10 11
67 8 9 10 11 12

36 possible results (not 11).

Count how many are above 6.

6/36=1/6
1/6=1/6

9 or less on 2d6=5/6
2 or higher on 1d6=5/6

See?

Still don't see. I can't make any sense out of that chart.
The problem for me is what do those numbers mean?

Here's is my take:
There are 36 possible number combinations but you'll only ever get one at a time. These combinations result in a number between 2 and 12. Out of those 11 possible results only three fail, 10, 11 and 12.

3 out of 11 is about 27%, a really good save.

I think I'd rather have that save than a 2+ because of the extra die you roll. <--Is that the part I am missing?

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Offline LehmanRuss

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2002, 09:16:12 PM »
Still don't see. I can't make any sense out of that chart.
The problem for me is what do those numbers mean?

Here's is my take:
There are 36 possible number combinations but you'll only ever get one at a time. These combinations result in a number between 2 and 12. Out of those 11 possible results only three fail, 10, 11 and 12.

3 out of 11 is about 27%, a really good save.

I think I'd rather have that save than a 2+ because of the extra die you roll. <--Is that the part I am missing?



The reason you don't see it is because you're looking from a dice range of 2-12.  That chart they made is actually a bell curve.  When you roll two dice together and add them up, odds change very greatly.

The odds of getting a 2 is 1/36, and the odds of getting a 12 is 1/36, but the odds of getting a 7 are 1/6 because of the sides on the dice that can add up to seven.

Make a grid that is six squares by six squares.  Above the first line of boxes, write 1 2 3 4 5 6 above each box.  On the left side of the grid, write 1 2 3 4 5 6 to the left of each box.  Now fill in each square by adding the number on the top to the number on the side (so if you're in the column with the 4 on it, and the row with the 3, you write a seven in that box.  What you'll come up with is that chart they showed you.

Now, Iyanna needs a 9 or less to save, so you count the number of times a 10 or higher occurs, and then divide it by the number of possible combinations.  10-12 occurs only 6 times out of 36, hence a 1/36 chance she'll fail a save, hence a 2+ invulnerable.

Still not sure about what I'm saying?  I'll scan my drawing for you and email it.  Just let me know.
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Offline Culeagh

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Re:C'Nesha vs. Eouk 2500 points
« Reply #10 on: November 1, 2002, 04:17:28 PM »
OK. Now I get it.
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