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Author Topic: 1750 points Hybrid army looking for a rating. It's long, though.  (Read 1665 times)

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Offline Mads R

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1750 points Hybrid army looking for a rating. It's long, though.
« on: February 10, 2010, 04:59:47 AM »
Author: Mads R
Theme: Hybrid
Strategy: A more unit specific with primary and secondary roles will follow after the armylist. Here there'll be a simple turn by turn strategy as well. This is the overall idea with the army.

The army is split into two sections; the mobile and somewhat assaulty mechanised wing and the infantry based centre. With variations depending on the mission/enemy army the centre will deploy near an objective and if possible in cover. The Mech Wing will deploy a bit away from the Infantry Base, but close enough to support if something completely unexpected happens. If things goes according to plan, though, the skimmers will move to one of the flanks and attack the enemy army piecemeal. Best case scenario will be attacking an objective as well, but removing dangerous parts of the enemy army could be an option, too.
While the Mech Wing engages the Infantry Base moves forward in order to put pressure on the enemy and support the Mech Wing by denying enemy support to the flanks.

The Farseer can go in either camp, but will most likely be with the Mech Wing to help with Fortune and his AT ability. With the Wing he'd most likely accompany the Avengers while with the Infantry Base he'd be with the Warlock for rerolls.

Against Orks, Nids and other very assault oriented armies the entire strategy will most likely be a bit more defensive.
 
All Wave Serpents are with Shuriken Cannons and Spirit Stones.


Quote
HQ:
(148) Farseer: Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Doom & Fortune

Troops:
(262) 10 Dire Avenger: Exarch, dual catapults and Bladestorm
          Mounted in a Wave Serpent: TL-Shuri-cans and stones

(134) 10 Guardian Defenders: Scatterlaser
           1 Spirit Seer; Embolden & spear

(95) 10 Guardians: Scatterlaser

Elites:
(176) 9 Striking Scorpiong: Exarch, Claw & Stalker

(281) 9 Howling Banshees: Exarch, Executioner & Acrobatics
          Mounted in a Wave Serpent: TL-Shuri-cans & Stones

(223) 6 Fire Dragons: Exarch, Crack Shot and DBF
          Mounted in a Wave Serpent: TL-Shuri-cans & Stones

Heavy:
(155) Wraithlord: EML & BL

(155) Wraithlord: EML & BL

(120) 2 Warwalkers: 2 Scatterlasers

1749pts, 3 SU's, 13 KP's, 63 figures

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Primary and secondary roles within the army.

I've tried to accommodate a fair deal of redundancy in the chosen units without letting this get in the way of their primary function. I'll just briefly go through the different roles and what units I expect to fullful these (as either their primary or secondary focus). I'll touch up on Anti Tank, Anti Horde, Anti MEQ.

Anti Tank.
Primary: Both Wraithlords, Fire Dragons
Secondary: Singing Spear, S6 shooting at rear (or front if low armor), Scorpions Claw and to a degree Executioner in CC.

The primary anti tank units will seek to engage the most troublesome enemy armor. Depending upon the flow of battle this may be Terminator/Plague Marine transporting Land Raiders, Leman Russ Battletanks (though these depend on the amount of cover I'm in) etc. The most reliable option is the Fire Dragons but the Lords will try their best - you'll get lucky some day :)

Transport will be targeted early on and the army sports a great number of S6 weaponry able to deal with Rhinos and to a degree with Chimeras (though I'll might have to call in the Lords here depending on the other targets).

Apart from the S6 weaponry most the secondary AT options are somewhat situational and I'm aware that the army will be troubled against massive heavy armor (lost of front facing Battle Wagons, Twin Raiders etc). One solutions could be trying to get a Bright Lance on the Avenger Serpent, but I'm not sure where to get the points from.

Anti Horde.
Primary: Dire Avengers and shuriken catapults in general. Scatterlasers and Shuriken Cannons. Scorpions in CC and Howling Banshees to a degree.
Secondary: Dragons Breath Flamer, Wraithlord flamer, tank shock.

Both the Mech Wing and the Infantry Base sports a variety of anti horde weaponry. I'd liked more flamers, but I think the Embolden power on the Warlock is more usefull allround than a, most likely, one shot flamer option. The Infantry Base is the best suited for dealing with an incoming Horde, but the Mech Wing also retains the option of moving away from/over an overpowering opposition.

The Dragons Breath Flamer allows me to use the Fire Dragons in more than just an AT role. If their Wave Serpent gets down by CC there's a good chance of a nice clusterbeslubber shot as well as assisting the rest of the wing against infantry hording an objective (ie IG).

Anti MEQ and better.
Primary: Banshees (Doom), Fire Dragons, Scorpions, Dire Avengers (Doom)
Secondary: Massed S6 shooting, Wraithlords

My options against MEQs are revolving around a mix of CC and shooting, but with Doom playing a central role in order to ensure enough wounds. Both Scorpions and Banshees can do ok against tactical marines g their equivalent with the Dire Avengers and Fire Dragons being my way of handling Terminators - through lots of wounds or negating armorsaves at range.

The secondary options are more diluted. S6 shooting is fine but will suffer against the armor save will the Wraithlords are somewhat n  in CC and are wasting AT potential by being there - as well when shooting at them.

Overall:
I think army is capable at handling all three aspects, but will suffer a bit if faced with an army that focus exclusively on one extreme (which, I guess, is one way to design a tournament army :) ). Still, by doing so the army should have had to give up strength in other areas, which then must be exploited.

Objectives:
With three scoring units I'm placed around the norm for an Eldar army of this size. Only one is mounted though, but the other two are supported by Wraithlords which should somewhat enhance their survivability.
The Warlock-less Guardian squad will be charged with holding the "home" objective and the other two going to capture. The Avengers will be playing furthest upfield with the second Guardian squad holding the centre field supporting whichever area needing (offense/defense). I'll have to use elites to contest further objectives if they're available.

Quote from: f. desrochers (with my changes)
Mobile Support Group:  The block of Defenders with Embolden can take some serious heat if in cover, but aren't a threat compared to the two Wraithlords accompanying them.  Wraithlords are vulnerable to hordes swamping them (nids, IG, etc) which the shuriken catapults help mitigate (not remove) (synergy effect).  All three are mobile to provide long range fire support, providing a deterrent to mech list mobility - you may move fast, but I can still move and shoot at long ranges.  The Embolden-seer removes the issue of Wraithsight (synergy effect).  If needed, they can remain in the backfield, able to support the Guardians holding an objective, the Defenders' Scoring Unit status the key there; the WLs then support and protect the Defenders. (tactic, not synergy)

- Guardian Defenders x 10 w/ Scatter, Embolden-spiritseer
- Wraithlord w/ BL, EML
- Wraithlord w/ BL, EML

From the "Let's stop talking Synergy" thread in the Eldar Forum.

It does however fit with the way I'm using the infantry base. The scorpions provide a second layer of defense against assaults and, when on the offense, an option to charge in myself.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An example of how I'd like the army to play, turn by turn.

Turn 1:
Infantry Centre
Guardians and Wraithlords seek cover and move in the claim objectives. Scorpions manouvers into a countercharge position (if possible with a route to advance).

Mech Wing
Depending on when I want to hit the enemy lines they either tries to feint the flank I'll attack on (for a late assault) or moves towards my chosen flank (for a faster assault). If possible in cover, but most likely moving fast anyway. The Seer fortunes either his unit/ride or the Fire Dragons. Dooms the unit of choice.

Targets:
Transports (S6), heavy armor (lances). If my infantry is in cover I'll most likely target transports heavily and accept a round of battering from heavy guns.

Turn 2:
Infantry Centre.
The Wraithlords up to claim territory and cover the Guardians. The Warlock units moves with them.
The Scorpions moves along in order to protect against charges. By now an assaulty enemy will likely be on my doorstep.
The last Guardian squad moves up to support with shuriken fire, but staying enough back for a quick objective claim.

Mech Wing.
The Serpents moves close to their targets. If I need to assault they'll move very close while still trying to protect themselves, but allowing for a turn 3 charge. If I need to shoot first I'll either hold back a bit to deliver a 12" driveby next turn or moves up close for a combined assault and shoot.

Targets.
Still transports and the heavy guns near my Mech Wing assault possition. My Infantry Base will be looking for how to limit the enemys assault options in their turn 2/3.

I think this is about as far as I can reliably predict the flow of battle.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
A little fluff.

The soft humming of the engine was growing in intensity as the pilot eased the Wave Serpent onto the dusty soil of Deah’Mon or as the mon'keigh called it: Asfyrex IV. The crude pronuanciation of their language made Manhael wonder how a whole race could live with such a foul way of communicating. Had they not the arrogance of calling themselves civilised and yet they could not even adress the most pale star by it’s rightful name nor give thanks for the sacrifices the Eldar had brought even before they could travel between the suns. Shaking his head Manhael walked up to the vehicle and enjoyed the perfection of its construction. The seamless joints of it’s outer shell and the ressonance of the spiritstone within made him proud of commanding a small fleet of such marvels. There had not been many when they set off on the mission and they were even fewer now, but if he had understod the visions correct they would succeed.

He had no any idea of how long he had been sitting in the shade beneath the Wave Serpent. Scorpion Exarch Ai’liaen had come to him earlier and informed him of the whereabouts of the mon'keigh camp, but that the reinforcements arriving had been more numorous than expected. He had not foreseen this and it troubled him – what else might have gone unnoticed by his spirit; and how many of his fellow warriors would pay with their lives for his shortcomings. His innervisions had not been as strong as tradition would have it ever since they set foot on this cursed soil and he had still not been able to uncover the reason behind this.

He could still taste the fury of the kisses of his youth and the fire that burned within after his first kill, but he was old now, even by the standards of his people. The days of heedlessly throwing caution to the wind and riding to battle with the fury of Khaine pulsing within him belonged to a different time. A different era it felt. The time was not for letting lives be lost, but with the mon'keigh strengthening their position he might have his hand forced into striking soon. An untimely strike could spell doom for the task he had been charged with, but not striking at all could ruin the fate of too many souls. Unconsciously his hand sought the soulstone inside his runearmor and fondled it carelessly. His mind was made up, but he sought deep for other futures; better and brighter than the one that had been haunting him for too many nights now, but to no avail. The dusty grey soil still turned red behind his eyelids and the sky lit up in flames.

He could see his men moving towards their transports even before he got up. They knew what was coming, but also that the alternatives could not be accepted. He sought the spirit stone for the last time and nodded respectfully to Mon’till as the Warlock presented his singing spear to him. Balancing it in his hands he felt the familiar wieght of the weapon shift from left to right as the fire of the God of War started to kindle within him.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 08:12:33 AM by Mads R »
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Offline moc065

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Re: 1750 points Hybrid army looking for a rating. It's long, though.
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2010, 07:59:15 AM »
Excellent post BTW....

Well formated, layed out well, easy to read, and a great balance between a list its stratigems and some fluff (or reasoning) to go with it.

It would be my pleasure to rate this list, as its offers some unique ideas... I would ask that you please insert any upgrades that are missing (Serpent load out) and check your math (Guardians with a Scatterlaser are 95pts minimum... and 96 pts is not an option)...

I will insert what I assume you ment as the list, until you change it above ~~ I also took the liberty to add one item as you had the points to spare anyway.

Quote
HQ:
(148) Farseer: Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Doom & Fortune

Troops:
(262) 10 Dire Avenger: Exarch, dual catapults and Bladestorm
          Mounted in a Wave Serpent: TL-Shuri-cans and stones

(134) 10+1 Guardian Defenders: Scatterlaser
          Spirit Seer; Embolden & spear

(95) 10 Guardians: Scatterlaser

Elites:
(176) 9 Striking Scorpiong: Exarch, Claw & Stalker

(281) 9 Howling Banshees: Exarch, Executioner & Acrobatics
          Mounted in a Wave Serpent: TL-Shuri-cans & Stones

(223) 6 Fire Dragons: Exarch, Crack Shot and DBF
          Mounted in a Wave Serpent: TL-Shuri-cans & Stones

Heavy:
(155) Wraithlord: EML & BL

(155) Wraithlord: EML & BL

(120) 2 Warwalkers: 2 Scatterlasers

1749pts, 3 SU's, 13 KP's, 63 figures

moc-score pending

1.. Anti-tank potential With 3 of the 9 working groups having dedicated AT and all working groups having options on side/rear armour and almost all of them having the mobility or options to gain positioning I see this area as being Above Average 0.7.
2.. Anti-MEQ potential The entire Elite section actually works well on MEQ, and then there are the combo's available with/and the mass shooting options; thus this section is Good 0.8
3.. Anti-Horde potential Being hybrid the mobile teams have options to avoid hordes, while the more static teams have certain options. The WL's are not listed as having Duel Flamers; but I suspect that is the load out (or it should be). The list is a little light on templates but it does have a decent mix of mass shooting and CC for both tough and stronger horde figures... thus I rate it as Average 0.6 (possibly higher if its used well)
4.. Ranged Firepower potential The shortest rang of any working team is those with Shuri-cannons, and those do have mobility options so the overall ranged firepower is actually decent. I do see it lacking a little on ranged AT but the WL's resilience can help in this area, thus I rate it as Above Average 0.6
5.. Assault potential Two solid assault teams with the scorps and banshee's and the DA, FD's, and other units can really help to hold or assist with CC... I don't see any deficiencies with this area; and rate it as Above Average 0.7
6.. Scoring Units / point level 3 scoring units at this level is not bad; but the fact that two of those units are soft does not help. Embolden will help the one softer unit; but the list is almost forced to rely on terrain, etc... thus I score this area as Slightly below Average 0.5
7.. Durability or Resilience The Skimmers add to the resilience and the MC's are tough enough, add in some other durable units and options such as range, etc and the durability is actually Above Average 0.7
8.. Flexability I don't see this list struggling any extra vs competitive All Comers lists out there... It might have issues with an enemy that employs "Super" units or spams masses of one particular item; but overall I see it as being decent vs most races as it has several options on how to deal with things. I rate it as Above Average 0.7
9.. Mission Capabiliy 13 Kill Points is not great at this points level, nor are 3 Scoring units when they are not the most resilient items in the list... thus I suggest that this section sees a little re-vamp in order to make the list more effective, and I only rate it as Slightly Below Average 0.5
10. Dynamics and/or Theme It looks like a classic hybrid list from 4th ed that was tweeked to fit better into 5th ed, it still has flaws; but it also has a very unique Kill Team style that can be used very effectively. Its potential is significant if in the right hands, and thus I still rate it as Good 0.8

Rating = 6.6/10
     Others will rate it differently, and if you faced this type of list for the first time tit would be tough to beat. The biggest issue I have with it, is that smart opponents will "Troop Hunt" to remove its scoring options, or pound on the easy targets to bag Kill Points while avoiding the rest. I do see a few really nice hidden gems though (such as WW bombs) so in the right hands this list could play to a level above its rating.
     I recently faced a very similar Hybrid list while fielding my Tau (yes I actually playtested vs this list) and I had my Mechinized Tau beat this list in 5-6 turns... as the list lacked finishing mobility to claim/contest MO's, I was also ahead in Kill Points, and as my Tau start with 17 KP's I think that this list really has to swap something out to add to its overall resilience while lessening its KP footprint.

Cheers
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 06:35:27 AM by moc065 »
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Offline Mads R

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Re: 1750 points Hybrid army looking for a rating. It's long, though.
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2010, 08:15:07 AM »
Thanks moc :) The list as you assume is correct and the added spear to the Spirit Seer is welcomed. Looking forward to what you have to say.
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