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Offline mafty

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1500 mech
« on: November 22, 2009, 01:03:33 AM »
Edited from other posts:

Final list update:

Farseer - doom, fortune, SS, ROWarding: 145
Autarch - mandiblasters, power weapon: 90

Striking scorpions 9 – exarch, scorpion claw: 171
-wave serpent – TL shuriken cannon, SS: 110

Storm guardians 10 + 1 – warlock, 2x flamer, destructor: 127
-wave serpent – TL BL, SS: 145
Storm guardians 10 + 1 – 2x flamer: 92
-wave serpent – TL BL, SS: 145
Dire avengers 5: 60
-Falcon – EML, SS, Holofields: 180

Fire prism – 115
Fire prism - 115

Total: 1495
« Last Edit: January 6, 2010, 11:28:31 AM by mafty »

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2009, 11:18:23 AM »
Ive been testing my hybrid list lately and its just not doing it for me, its coming up okay for me,

You seem to be a bit unsure of that which you are saying here, as 'doing okay' does not equate to 'doing it for me', which in itself is a statement I'm not sure what to make of.  Could you be a bit more precise?  It could be the problem is, for example, nothing to do with your list, but more to do with how you are using it.  In addition, how may games did you play test your mixed list for?

You could opt for the fully mechanised list below, but I feel two scoring units isn't enough for a 1500 point, and that Eldrad is too expensive, and would only fit the background if you were playing Ulthwé.

I suggest dropping Eldrad, and taking a regular Farseer with Doom, Fortune and Spirit Stones instead, since this will save you points, and a regular Farseer will do a solid job in my experience.

As for the issue of the scoring units, this is much more difficult to resolve.  If you are happy to adopt the 'wipe out strategy', whereby you wipe out the opposing army's scoring units in objective based missions, then you could get away with fielding two scoring units, but if you are not comfortable with this, then I feel you may have to change your army composition around a bit.

You could, for example, drop the Fire Prisms and take a third scoring unit in a Wave Serpent, and perhaps add a couple of outflanking War Walkers to catch your opponent off balance.  Alternatively, you could consider adding a small squad of three Jetbikes and holding them in reserve, although I don't think such small squads are a very good choice myself.

If you leave your units as they are, you could try to squeeze an Autarch into this list, so that you can employ the reserves strategy, since using this strategy is often one of the main reasons for taking a fully mechanised list.  That said, you don't have to play mechanised lists in this way, so it is only an option, rather than a necessity in my view.

The unit choices look very good, and the list certainly has potential, but I do worry about its ability to win Seize Ground missions in particular, due to the lack of scoring units.

I hope that helps.
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Offline Dunedain

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2009, 11:43:35 AM »
i agree that eldrad is not necessary. I also agree that autarch would be of much use to this army. My advice would be to kit him/her out with a power weapon, manid blasters, and a fusion gun and field it with the scorpions.
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Offline mafty

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2009, 11:50:34 AM »
In regards to my hybrid list, Its just not the play style Im looking for, and it doesnt seem to be meshing well. It feels like im playing two seperate armies. I have my slow footsloggers trying to march 6" to the fight getting shot to bits each turn, and my fast skimmers already on the other side of table killing things but with no support so they die soon after. It just feels like my army isnt meshing together.


The only reason I consider Eldrad is because I can use mindwar to get rid of powerfists, and his staff wounds on 2+ and ignores saves, plus he has a 3+ invul. So he is considerably better than a farseer, and 60 points more than a doom/fortune seer.


I was also considering adding a autarch but couldnt find the points. Im not to concerned about the 2 scoring units, Ill probably be keeping them in tanks most of the game. and to get a 3rd scoring unit I would probably have to go DAVU falcon route.

Hers an alternative list:

Farseer - doom, fortune, SS, ROWarding: 145

Striking scorpions – exarch, scorpion claw, stalker: 192
   -wave serpent – TL shuriken cannon, SS: 110

Storm guardians 10 + 1 – warlock, 2x flamer, destructor: 127
   -wave serpent – TL BL, SS: 145
Guardians 10 – scatter laser: 95
   -wave serpent –TL BL, SS: 145
Dire avengers 5
   -Falcon – EML, holo fields, SS: 180

Fire prism – holo fields: 150
Fire prism – holo fields: 150

Total: 1499

Fire dragon AT is replaced by Falcon AT, down grading Eldrad also allowed me to get 5 dire avengers for a 3rd scoring unit. I downgraded stormies to regular guardians (which wont get out of the tank if they dont need to) and this allowed me to put holo fields on all 3 of the tanks which will increases surviveability a ton I hope
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 12:05:59 PM by mafty »

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2009, 12:04:23 PM »
In regards to my hybrid list, Its just not the play style Im looking for, and it doesnt seem to be meshing well. It feels like im playing two seperate armies. I have my slow footsloggers trying to march 6" to the fight getting shot to bits each turn, and my fast skimmers already on the other side of table killing things but with no support so they die soon after. It just feels like my army isnt meshing together.

You can solve that problem by fielding infantry in two waves, where the front group runs, while the second walks, and/or by taking a linking unit.  the former is probably only viable with a 2000 point list, but the latter could work with a 1500 point list, depending on how it is structured.

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The only reason I consider Eldrad is because I can use mindwar to get rid of powerfists

This is unreliable in my opinion, given that most opposing models with Power Fists have higher than average leadership, so it is not worth taking him for that reason.

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and his staff wounds on 2+ and ignores saves

Again, this isn't really worth it in my view, since he doesn't have a large number of attacks, and he isn't supposed to be in the list for hand to hand fighting.

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plus he has a 3+ invul.

A Farseer is easily tough enough in my experience, so I don't see why this is such a significant issue.

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So he is considerably better than a farseer

Very questionable in my view.  If you play well, and have a good strategy in place, you won't feel the need to cast three powers per turn most of the time in my experience, and his close assault abilities are hardly worth the additional expenditure in points.

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and 60 points more than a doom/fortune seer.

A regular Farseer with Doom, Fortune and Spirit Stones gives you a greater saving than that over Eldrad, and even if this were not the case, this is a significant saving in my view.

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I was also considering adding a autarch but couldnt find the points. Im not to concerned about the 2 scoring units, Ill probably be keeping them in tanks most of the game.

Given that Storm Guardians are one of the best short ranged infantry killers in the Eldar army, how can you keep them in the Wave Serpents for most of the game?  Tactically, it just does not make sense, since you will be wasting their valuable firepower, and you also need them in play to support your Striking Scorpions and Fire Dragons, so I find your strategy rather unconvincing here I'm afraid.

The strategy you are outlining is more akin to using the Dire Avenger/Falcon combination, so if you want to take the Storm Guardians, and I think they are a good choice, I feel you will have to come up with a more aggressive, albeit not suicidal, strategy, in order to make the most of their abilities.

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and to get a 3rd scoring unit I would probably have to go DAVU falcon route.

Not necessarily, as there are other options, such as those which I mentioned in my previous post.

I hope that helps.

Edit: Regarding the alternative list, I'm not sure that it would have enough anti-tank without the Fire Dragons, while Guardian Defenders in a Wave Serpent are not an improvement on Storm Guardians in the same vehicle, so I suggest reversing that change.  Holofields on the Fire Prisms also are unnecessary in my view, given that it is preferable for them to take fire at the expense of your Wave Serpents, and leaving Holofields off them may just encourage your opponent to expend more fire at the Prisms, thus giving your Wave Serpents an easier time.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 12:08:25 PM by Irisado »
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Offline mafty

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2009, 12:19:02 PM »
Well in replace of 6 dragons, I have an EML and pulse laser. so 3 S8 shots at RANGE, instead of suiciding the dragons, which sometimes they dont even make it to where they want to go, albeit when they get there whatever they are after is destroyed no questions. Plus it allowed me to get a 3rd scoring unit. I can drop holofields on both fire prisms to get the storm guardians back though. and im left with some points to spare.

edit: heres a slight variation again:

Farseer - doom, fortune, SS, ROWarding: 145

Striking scorpions – exarch, scorpion claw, stalker: 192
   -wave serpent – TL shuriken cannon, SS: 110

Storm guardians 10 + 1 – warlock, 2x flamer, destructor: 127
   -wave serpent – TL BL, SS: 145
Storm guardians 10 + 1 – warlock, 2x flamer, destructor: 127
   -wave serpent – TL BL, SS: 145
Dire avengers 5
   -Falcon – BL, holo fields, SS: 190

Fire prism – 115
Fire prism - 115

Total: 1471

Leaves me with 29 points which I can either add a dire avenger to make it 6, or I can add an EML to the scorpions transport.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 12:29:32 PM by mafty »

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2009, 12:28:44 PM »
Well in replace of 6 dragons, I have an EML and pulse laser. so 3 S8 shots at RANGE

Okay, but my point is Fire Dragons are more reliable, both in terms of scoring hits, as well as causing damage.

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instead of suiciding the dragons, which sometimes they dont even make it to where they want to go, albeit when they get there whatever they are after is destroyed no questions.

I think this is a problem of tactics, not a problem with the Fire Dragons themselves.  It's not going to be the case that you can prevent them from being destroyed in every game, but it can be achieved in battle, although you really need a minimum of three Wave Serpents to make the tactic work, which is probably why you have encountered problems in your mixed list.

In a mechanised list though, I feel that it is easier to protect the Fire Dragons, since you have more Wave Serpents to act as line of sight blockers, execute tank shocks or provide fire support, as well as more units (all your squads, for the most part, would disembark at the same time), all of which makes it much more difficult for your opponent to eliminate the Fire Dragons in my view.

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Plus it allowed me to get a 3rd scoring unit.

That's a fair point, and is the one advantage you have from the exchange in my view, so it depends on which option you feel best suits your style of play.

I hope that helps.
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Offline mafty

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2009, 12:31:31 PM »
Well in replace of 6 dragons, I have an EML and pulse laser. so 3 S8 shots at RANGE

Okay, but my point is Fire Dragons are more reliable, both in terms of scoring hits, as well as causing damage.

Quote
instead of suiciding the dragons, which sometimes they dont even make it to where they want to go, albeit when they get there whatever they are after is destroyed no questions.

I think this is a problem of tactics, not a problem with the Fire Dragons themselves.  It's not going to be the case that you can prevent them from being destroyed in every game, but it can be achieved in battle, although you really need a minimum of three Wave Serpents to make the tactic work, which is probably why you have encountered problems in your mixed list.

In a mechanised list though, I feel that it is easier to protect the Fire Dragons, since you have more Wave Serpents to act as line of sight blockers, execute tank shocks or provide fire support, as well as more units (all your squads, for the most part, would disembark at the same time), all of which makes it much more difficult for your opponent to eliminate the Fire Dragons in my view.

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Plus it allowed me to get a 3rd scoring unit.

That's a fair point, and is the one advantage you have from the exchange in my view, so it depends on which option you feel best suits your style of play.

I hope that helps.

ah you keep missing my edits lol. I do appreciate fire dragons ability, its just hard to fit EVERYTHING I want ina  1500 list, I guess it depends what is more valuable, a stronger AT or a 3rd scoring unit

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2009, 01:11:10 PM »
I guess it depends what is more valuable, a stronger AT or a 3rd scoring unit

Yes, it does, and only you can decide this, since you know your playing style and the types of army lists better than any of us do.  If it were me, I would take both, but then I field a mixed list, so the points saved by not having to field a transport for all my units makes it easier for me to take more scoring units, while still keeping my elites section at 'full strength'.
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Offline mafty

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2009, 01:41:37 PM »
I guess it depends what is more valuable, a stronger AT or a 3rd scoring unit

Yes, it does, and only you can decide this, since you know your playing style and the types of army lists better than any of us do.  If it were me, I would take both, but then I field a mixed list, so the points saved by not having to field a transport for all my units makes it easier for me to take more scoring units, while still keeping my elites section at 'full strength'.

definatly, which is why i initially built a hybrid list, so i could include all of that. What do you think of the updated list 2 posts up, put stormies back, dropped holo fields, leaves me with some 30 points.

Alright, another edit, and i actually really like this list, I seem to have fit everything I wanted into the list and not sacrificed to much (other than nothing has holo fields, which puts me at a slightly higher risk)

Farseer - doom, fortune, SS, ROWarding: 145
Autarch - mandiblasters, power weapon: 90

Striking scorpions 9 – exarch, scorpion claw: 171
-wave serpent – TL shuriken cannon, SS: 110

Storm guardians 10 + 1 – warlock, 2x flamer, destructor: 127
-wave serpent – TL BL, SS: 145
Storm guardians 10 + 1 – warlock, 2x flamer, destructor: 127
-wave serpent – TL BL, SS: 145
Dire avengers 5
-Falcon – EML, SS: 150

Fire prism – 115
Fire prism - 115

1500 on the nose.

I think that is tight for points as it gets, i dropped one scorpion and holo fields to get the autarch with power weapon, which easily replaces my one lost scorpion, and hopefully the holofields wont be missed.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 01:50:50 PM by mafty »

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2009, 02:01:45 PM »
The revised version would be good in my view, were it not for one small detail, and that concerns removing the Holofields on the DAVU.  The whole premise behind this rather bland (in my view) combination is to make it as tough as possible, and removing the Holofields means that it is too weak to even contemplate fielding in my opinion, so if you want to take the Autarch, I feel you would be better off gambling on running two scoring units, and replacing the DAVU with Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent, as you had before.

I hope that helps.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2009, 02:08:22 PM »
I have always had decent success with my DAVU Falcon in the AT role. I would however swap the BL on it for an EML. Assuming you have the Falcon moving more than 6" most of the time (I know I do, but I face a lot of fast armies) the BL will be wasted. With an EML, if you don't have to move more than 6" then it with synergize better with the PL due to the same range and strength, just at a lower AP which won't matter against a vehicle anyway. If you do need to move more than 6" you can still fire a plasma round out of it as well as the PL.

With the extra points I would put spirit stones on the Prisms for sure. You should always do that anyway IMO.

Dropping the holos on the Falcon defeats the purpose of it at that point.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 02:10:03 PM by Partninja »

Offline mafty

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2009, 04:13:34 PM »
The revised version would be good in my view, were it not for one small detail, and that concerns removing the Holofields on the DAVU.  The whole premise behind this rather bland (in my view) combination is to make it as tough as possible, and removing the Holofields means that it is too weak to even contemplate fielding in my opinion, so if you want to take the Autarch, I feel you would be better off gambling on running two scoring units, and replacing the DAVU with Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent, as you had before.

I hope that helps.

Yea, its a tough call, I think 3 scoring units might be more beneficial than a stronger AT option, unless my falcon gets targeted fast.

I have always had decent success with my DAVU Falcon in the AT role. I would however swap the BL on it for an EML. Assuming you have the Falcon moving more than 6" most of the time (I know I do, but I face a lot of fast armies) the BL will be wasted. With an EML, if you don't have to move more than 6" then it with synergize better with the PL due to the same range and strength, just at a lower AP which won't matter against a vehicle anyway. If you do need to move more than 6" you can still fire a plasma round out of it as well as the PL.

With the extra points I would put spirit stones on the Prisms for sure. You should always do that anyway IMO.

Dropping the holos on the Falcon defeats the purpose of it at that point.

The falcon does have EML on it in the updated list. and Im not sure how I could find points for holofields + points for spirit stones without dropping something else.

edit: What if i dropped a warlock for the holo fields? warlock + destructor is XX points and holofields are XX points. Id lose a heavy flamer, but the squad would still have the other 2 and it would make my falcon much harder to kill.



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« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 03:11:41 AM by Ardeth Bey »

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2009, 04:41:16 PM »
The Spirit Stones on the Fire Prisms are not needed in my view, so I suggest just focusing on finding the points for the Holofields.  You could drop a Warlock to find them, although I feel that does weaken one of the Guardian squads quite a bit.  That said, it's the only way I can see that you can find the points at the moment, so this is the change you will, most likely, have to make.

I hope that helps.
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Offline mafty

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2009, 04:53:05 PM »
The Spirit Stones on the Fire Prisms are not needed in my view, so I suggest just focusing on finding the points for the Holofields.  You could drop a Warlock to find them, although I feel that does weaken one of the Guardian squads quite a bit.  That said, it's the only way I can see that you can find the points at the moment, so this is the change you will, most likely, have to make.

I hope that helps.

yea its kind of a crummy decision, but its the only spot I can see as well. Unless I choose not to field an autarch, which personally I think a mech eldar force mildly needs to improve the reserve/denial strategy, plus it gives a 4 attack power weapon person to my scorpion squad.


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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2009, 06:41:38 PM »
Some thoughts and suggestions.

You can dual role the storm guardians by swapping a flamer for a fusion gun and giving the warlock a singing spear. With this the squad has a melta gun and lascannon for tanks or flamer/heavy flamer/8 pistols/1 melta for infantry. You lose a bit on horde control (but not that much) but gain the ability to mash medium tanks and even have a go at heavy armour. All for 3 points extra a unit.

2 prisms, pulse laser +EML, 3 witchblades and 2 twin linked brightlances is maybe a bit much anti tank, certainly considering the cost of some of those shots. Dropping a twin linked brightlance would free up a lot of points with little reduction in effectiveness, particularly if you did change one or more of the storm guardian squads to a hybrid horde/anti-tank build.

If you can't afford holofields, drop something to take them. Definitely on the falcon and if possible on the prisms too. Spirit stones are good on prism too as, if you can't fire, it allows you to move 18"+ to hide/get a cover save, meaning you can probably fire the turn after (but if you can't find the points, it is not the end of the world)

I would disagree very strongly with Irisado regarding Eldrad. He is a steal for the points and is what the farseers should be. With fortune, only 1 in 9 wounds will get through his save compared to 1 in 4 for a regular farseer. 3 power weapon attacks on the charge with very high chance of wounding is fantastic, in fact it would be  the only good power weapon in your army. These two facts allow you to solo bomb a small squad with him, something you certainly can't do with a regular farseer. Divination is fantastic for a mech list if you are going first- you can probably redeploy your whole army after you see where his is going to be. His 3 powers a turn with say 2 fortunes is not to be underestimated and having all the powers means whatever you need is always there.
Why not to take him? You are worried about the fluff, which I do not hold with, but I can understand. You really really don't have the points and are taking a basic one power farseer. You want a jetbike council.

The autarch. Hmmm, I guess you are taking him purely for the +1 reserves. He is quite expensive for that alone. On the charge he will kill 6*2/3*1/3=1.3 marines and that drops to ~1 if he has not charged (for a comparison, Eldrad will kill 1.7 marines on the charge). Really very mediocre. If you can't find points to tool him up to do something useful, I would consider dropping him. Even a 10 point fusion gun would make him much more dangerous.

If you are short a few points, you can always drop a scorpion with only a little drop in effectiveness. This can often be worth doing for something important.

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2009, 07:15:51 PM »
You can dual role the storm guardians by swapping a flamer for a fusion gun and giving the warlock a singing spear. With this the squad has a melta gun and lascannon for tanks or flamer/heavy flamer/8 pistols/1 melta for infantry. You lose a bit on horde control (but not that much) but gain the ability to mash medium tanks and even have a go at heavy armour. All for 3 points extra a unit.

I think this is where you (in the impersonal sense) can go very badly astray with the Eldar though, since the vast majority of their units are designed to be effective in only one, or sometimes two, roles, and I feel that Storm Guardians fall into the first category, in that you either tool them up to deal with tanks by giving them two Fusion Guns and a Warlock with a Singing Spear, or you give them two Flamers and a Warlock with Destructor.

Combining the roles just leads to their being less effective at both of them, which isn't really very beneficial in my opinion, and the combination of the Singing Spear and Destructor is counter productive, given that the Warlock cannot shoot twice.

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I would disagree very strongly with Irisado regarding Eldrad.

Of course you would, you are a member of the Ulthwé POC after all  ;).

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He is a steal for the points and is what the farseers should be.

I wouldn't call any single model costing over two hundred points 'a steal' myself.

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Divination is fantastic for a mech list if you are going first- you can probably redeploy your whole army after you see where his is going to be.

An argument has been made, not by me, but by those who employ the reserves strategy, that this strategy is far more effective than divination, and given that this seems to be the direction in which this list is heading, I don't think divination is going to be all that useful here.

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Why not to take him?

In addition to the background issue, I think the cost argument is a very strong one.  Spending that many points on a single model in a 1500 point army just totally ruins the internal balance of the list in my opinion.  Still, I somehow doubt I'm going to change the mind of an Ulthwé player on this issue  :).

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The autarch. Hmmm, I guess you are taking him purely for the +1 reserves. He is quite expensive for that alone. On the charge he will kill 6*2/3*1/3=1.3 marines and that drops to ~1 if he has not charged (for a comparison, Eldrad will kill 1.7 marines on the charge). Really very mediocre.

This is one of the reasons why I find statistical analysis so unconvincing sometimes.  Arguing that Eldrad is better because he may kill 0.4 more of a Space Marine squad than the Autarch just seems odd to me.

Where do agree with you is that, relative to the improvements which have now been made to some non-Eldar psykers, there are some problems with the Farseer relative more to them, than to Eldrad, in terms of battlefield performance, which is something we have tried to redress in the Eldar Redux (feel free to PM me if you would like more details on that).
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 07:25:49 PM by Irisado »
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Offline mafty

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2009, 07:36:55 PM »
Some thoughts and suggestions.

You can dual role the storm guardians by swapping a flamer for a fusion gun and giving the warlock a singing spear. With this the squad has a melta gun and lascannon for tanks or flamer/heavy flamer/8 pistols/1 melta for infantry. You lose a bit on horde control (but not that much) but gain the ability to mash medium tanks and even have a go at heavy armour. All for 3 points extra a unit.
Im not a huge fan of dual purpose squads, the sotrm guardians are really meant to deal with light infantry by flaming them then if needed assaulting whats left. I dont think giving them an AT role would be that great, and I mean BS3 for AT is not a wonderful option

2 prisms, pulse laser +EML, 3 witchblades and 2 twin linked brightlances is maybe a bit much anti tank, certainly considering the cost of some of those shots. Dropping a twin linked brightlance would free up a lot of points with little reduction in effectiveness, particularly if you did change one or more of the storm guardian squads to a hybrid horde/anti-tank build.
I definatly agree I think there is a ton of AT in this build (more so than my hybrid build at the same points). But I dont think dropping a lance is a great idea because a TL BL will only wreck a AV12 tank 1/12 turns. with 2 shooting at the same tank its 1/6 turns. so the odds arent that great, which is why you need a few.

If you can't afford holofields, drop something to take them. Definitely on the falcon and if possible on the prisms too. Spirit stones are good on prism too as, if you can't fire, it allows you to move 18"+ to hide/get a cover save, meaning you can probably fire the turn after (but if you can't find the points, it is not the end of the world)
As I said above I think im going to drop a warlock to get my DAVu with holofields.

I would disagree very strongly with Irisado regarding Eldrad. He is a steal for the points and is what the farseers should be. With fortune, only 1 in 9 wounds will get through his save compared to 1 in 4 for a regular farseer. 3 power weapon attacks on the charge with very high chance of wounding is fantastic, in fact it would be  the only good power weapon in your army. These two facts allow you to solo bomb a small squad with him, something you certainly can't do with a regular farseer. Divination is fantastic for a mech list if you are going first- you can probably redeploy your whole army after you see where his is going to be. His 3 powers a turn with say 2 fortunes is not to be underestimated and having all the powers means whatever you need is always there.
Why not to take him? You are worried about the fluff, which I do not hold with, but I can understand. You really really don't have the points and are taking a basic one power farseer. You want a jetbike council.
I initially wanted Eldrad, but when the points broke down and I started moving things around he didnt become feasable, if i upgrade to 1750 I would definatly take him.

The autarch. Hmmm, I guess you are taking him purely for the +1 reserves. He is quite expensive for that alone. On the charge he will kill 6*2/3*1/3=1.3 marines and that drops to ~1 if he has not charged (for a comparison, Eldrad will kill 1.7 marines on the charge). Really very mediocre. If you can't find points to tool him up to do something useful, I would consider dropping him. Even a 10 point fusion gun would make him much more dangerous.
Im taking the autarch for 2 reasons - 1 being the +1 on reserve rolls, 2 he replaces a scorpion with 6 power weapon attacks and invul save, which definatly buffs that squad up a bit. I dont think he needs a fusion gun because i plan on putting him and farseer with scorpions, and probably never assaulting a tank so no need for a melta weapon really.

If you are short a few points, you can always drop a scorpion with only a little drop in effectiveness. This can often be worth doing for something important.
Yes, and ive already dropped on scorpion, I dont want to go below 8 models for sure. Im really not sure where else I could lose points to fit other things, and really I dont know what other things I could put in this list without completley rehauling the list to make it something else (such as putting FD in a WS and dropping DAVU falcon and getting 3 jetbikes or something).

Final list update:

Farseer - doom, fortune, SS, ROWarding: 145
Autarch - mandiblasters, power weapon: 90

Striking scorpions 9 – exarch, scorpion claw: 171
-wave serpent – TL shuriken cannon, SS: 110

Storm guardians 10 + 1 – warlock, 2x flamer, destructor: 127
-wave serpent – TL BL, SS: 145
Storm guardians 10 + 1 – 2x flamer: 92
-wave serpent – TL BL, SS: 145
Dire avengers 5
-Falcon – EML, SS, Holofields: 180

Fire prism – 115
Fire prism - 115

Total: 1494
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 07:42:48 PM by mafty »

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2009, 07:54:56 PM »
I think that the list is as good as it is going to get, in view of the strategy you want to use, so I feel the time has now come to play test it, in order to see how it performs.

Good luck!
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Offline enlg

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Re: 1500 mech
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2009, 08:23:35 PM »
i have a small gut feeling that dropping the warlock+destructor, 1 striking scorpion (8 is a solid squad size) and dropping the mandiblasters on the autarch to save 61pts is a very important choice. if you were putting the avengers in a wave serpent.

then, alternatively, if you dropped the 9th scorpion, you could use the 16pts to give your autarch a fusion gun, leaving 6pts left. and since your list is already 6pts under par, this gives you 12pts to use, why not give the farseer runes of witnessing? or if you aren't going to put an IC in the 6th space in the falcon, make the dire avengers a squad of 6.

hope you find that useful.

 


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