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Author Topic: Do you believe in God  (Read 20466 times)

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Offline Godhead's Lament

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2003, 03:44:48 PM »
The problem with most beliefs is that people like to put restrictions and definitions on what they believe. You say you believe in the godess or a god and heaven and hell and everything, but you can't prove any of it. When you say these defenite things about what you belive, its child'splay for other people to pick apart your ideas because they are unfounded other than "some guy told me that" or "thats what I think".

Well what would you say if I said "I belive that the universe was created by a magical fart from a giant pink elephant and everything bad in the world where the bad molecules of the fart and we were what he ate the day before. After we die, we are transported to a magic land of flowers and giraffes and we drink milkshakes for the rest of eternity. The meaning of life is to do handstands and pee on flowers, doing this will give us more milkshakes in the afterlife"

You would call me crazy because it doesn't sound like something that would happen to you. Well, you have to understand that everything we think is normal and real is what we percieve to be so. If you were raised to believe that stuff, you would think that it was normal and the beliefs of christians or whatever were totally whacked. You can't really disprove or prove any belief because we can't say anything for sure.

Agnostic - comes from greek word meaning lack of/no knowledge/proof.

I am agnostic because I accept that we don't know very much. Nobody can say anything about the meaning of life or the afterlife period. Anyone who thinks they can is either caught up in wishful thinking or hasn't figured out that their belief is flawed.

Lets look at our friends the ants. We look at ants as mindless, insignificant little bugs that don't know whats going on. An ant however, would say that the meaning of life is to dig tunnels and kill things that smell wierd. To the ant, this belief system is justified and acceptable because thats all the ant can see to do.

An ant can't understand a human's mind and can't see our motives because it can't sense and process information in the same way we do. If an ant never came in contact with a human, it wouldn't belive that we exist. An 'athiest' ant would say that shakes in the earth and other effects from human existance were random occurances and not happeneing because of a 'divine' human influence.

Now, who's to say that we aren't ants compared to something bigger? If there is something bigger than us, we can't accurately percieve it.

I won't say that there is something bigger for sure, but I'm open to the thought of the existance of something that we can't percieve. Most people can't see little molecules and particles and understand how they work, but with modern science, we know that they exist. Maybe some day we'll figure out why things happen. Maybe we'll find that my pink elephant theory really is true (same basis of thought as any other theist religion) and maybe we'll find that the only existance is what we see now, only physical matter (athiest belief). We don't know.

Agnostic is the only safe belief. 8)
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Offline HarlequinSolitaire

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2003, 03:59:05 PM »

Well what would you say if I said "I belive that the universe was created by a magical fart from a giant pink elephant and everything bad in the world where the bad molecules of the fart and we were what he ate the day before. After we die, we are transported to a magic land of flowers and giraffes and we drink milkshakes for the rest of eternity. The meaning of life is to do handstands and pee on flowers, doing this will give us more milkshakes in the afterlife"



Where can I join this religion?  :D

Yeah, but you put forward some fair points there, Godhead. But I like to live unsafe.  ;) I'll stick with my beliefs, for the while.

And secret, I'm not asking anything. Just contemplating.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2003, 04:01:09 PM by HarlequinSolitaire »
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Offline Secret

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2003, 04:06:29 PM »
And secret, I'm not asking anything. Just contemplating.

Yes but unfortunately I don't understand what it is....
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Offline Vaelyn

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2003, 04:36:29 PM »
  All interesting positions, to be sure.  Yet as I look at the world I find it really inconceivable that all this developed from mere chance.  Yes, I know about chaos theory and all that.... seeming order from randomness.  Still, the universe seems to scream at us every day that there IS an order, a purpose.  Just to examine the intricacies of the veins and cells in a leaf is to be awed by the beauty and complexity in nature.  To hear a sonnet by Shakespeare, to see the Parthenon at sunset in Athens, to look at the moon and realize that human beings have walked on its face... Perhaps they ARE just the result of randomly interacting subatomic particles, but NONE of us-- not even the atheists-- ever really act as if we believe that's true.  We go to work, we worry about the car payment and the kids' doctor bills, we live our lives as if they really do mean  something.  Why do we keep playing the game if we're so sure nobody's keeping score?
  If I ever REALLY became sure there was no God and that when I die I'll just fade into nothingness then I'd put a bullet through my head at once.  Better still, I'd find a way to launch every nuke on the planet and end humanity's long suffering forever.  After all, it's just a randomly interacting pool of molecules, right?  Why is one set of molecular structures better than any other?
  Oh, look... there, I've done it again.  By even purposing to shoot myself or nuke the world I'm acting as if anything I do matters.  Guess I can't help it, huh?

  Danceman (and others), do you believe the Goddess is real, or is she just a metaphor?  And what about the male principle, the God?  Most modern forms of Wicca (and similar neo-pagan religions) are curiously silent on him.  Why does he get so little attention?  

  Finally, those of you who blame religion for most of the violence in the world are missing the point entirely.  Sooner or later, ANY strongly held belief will become an excuse for violent behavior.  Human beings have killed for love, money, jealousy, honor, revenge, philosophy, even compassion (euthanasia.).  Don't blame religion, or even particular religions.  Every one of them (yes, even Wicca, Buddhism, and Hinduism) has produced violent fanatics.  Does this mean we should stop believing in anything?  Obviously not... in fact, we cannot HELP believing in SOMETHING.  Even the agnostics and the atheists are willing to take a stand for their beliefs.

Offline Yentz

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2003, 05:15:46 PM »
Well, I personally do not believe there is a god, though there "might" be(im an agnostic) There is just no way of telling, so instead of worrying about it, I just live life how I want to.

Offline Farsear Riddle

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2003, 05:19:55 PM »
 All interesting positions, to be sure.  Yet as I look at the world I find it really inconceivable that all this developed from mere chance.  Yes, I know about chaos theory and all that.... seeming order from randomness.  Still, the universe seems to scream at us every day that there IS an order, a purpose.  Just to examine the intricacies of the veins and cells in a leaf is to be awed by the beauty and complexity in nature.  To hear a sonnet by Shakespeare, to see the Parthenon at sunset in Athens, to look at the moon and realize that human beings have walked on its face... Perhaps they ARE just the result of randomly interacting subatomic particles, but NONE of us-- not even the atheists-- ever really act as if we believe that's true.  We go to work, we worry about the car payment and the kids' doctor bills, we live our lives as if they really do mean  something.  Why do we keep playing the game if we're so sure nobody's keeping score?
  If I ever REALLY became sure there was no God and that when I die I'll just fade into nothingness then I'd put a bullet through my head at once.  Better still, I'd find a way to launch every nuke on the planet and end humanity's long suffering forever.  After all, it's just a randomly interacting pool of molecules, right?  Why is one set of molecular structures better than any other?
  Oh, look... there, I've done it again.  By even purposing to shoot myself or nuke the world I'm acting as if anything I do matters.  Guess I can't help it, huh?

  Danceman (and others), do you believe the Goddess is real, or is she just a metaphor?  And what about the male principle, the God?  Most modern forms of Wicca (and similar neo-pagan religions) are curiously silent on him.  Why does he get so little attention?  

  Finally, those of you who blame religion for most of the violence in the world are missing the point entirely.  Sooner or later, ANY strongly held belief will become an excuse for violent behavior.  Human beings have killed for love, money, jealousy, honor, revenge, philosophy, even compassion (euthanasia.).  Don't blame religion, or even particular religions.  Every one of them (yes, even Wicca, Buddhism, and Hinduism) has produced violent fanatics.  Does this mean we should stop believing in anything?  Obviously not... in fact, we cannot HELP believing in SOMETHING.  Even the agnostics and the atheists are willing to take a stand for their beliefs.

Good post

Offline auserman

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2003, 05:20:58 PM »
there is no god, my proof is the movie "the truman show" hehehe,and the first batman movie...
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Offline Aesir Yggdrasil

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2003, 05:24:50 PM »
The Truman show did bring up some interesting points, But I still belive in God. Maybe she just got bored and started to wander around...
A Movie you should see is Dogma. Brings up many interesting points about god, and the Catholic church.
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Offline Farsear Riddle

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2003, 05:27:06 PM »
I think the green mile is a good movie with a spiritual aspect.

Offline Archon Khiraq(danceman)

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2003, 05:29:41 PM »
i dont mean all religions are BAD!  no no just how some people seem to use it as a tool of hate insted love and forgiving...

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Offline Godhead's Lament

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2003, 05:53:46 PM »
Dogma does not bring up good points, it is fiction based on the beliefs of christians.

Vaelyn, you seem like you know what you're talking about. Many people have different ideas about why we are here, but nobody can say for sure. The thing thats hard for lots of people to accept or see is that everything we percieve is a physical property. We interpret our senses in our brain and come to various conclusion about life, existance, etc. These are physical and concrete things. Some people's basic wiring tells them that being compassionate and helpful is important, other people have only greed as motivation. While some ways of thinking are beneficial and others are looked down upon, we still don't know what our actual purpose is and if there is one. These desires to build and discover are instincts. Just like a beetle has the instinct to dig tunnels and eat fesces, we have instincts of self preseration and progression of society and self. Wether you believe that these desires are instilled in us by a god or creator or that they are purely random processes dictated by evolution, they are telling us what to do.

Heres another thought I'll throw out for discussion. Many athiests and opposers of organization and religion have based their disbelief on the fact that the major organized religions have flaws. You should think that maybe nobody understands the nature of higher powers are at work, whether they exist or not. We can't say that there is one god that loves us and sustains us and we can't say that there are 330 million deities that control us (hinduism's belief). If you're going to say that there are definantely no divine presences, than say THAT instead of saying "well, if God is supposed to love us and span time and bla blah blah than there obviously isn't a God" because that only disproves certain dogmas.

btw, hardcore athiesm is absurd because we have no way of knowing anything about something that we can't percieve, whether it affects us or not. Something divine is something that isn't knowable by human standards without guidance from the divine. To oppose the validity of the prophets and teachings of major religions only means that these are not the right beliefs. That doesn't stop other unkown beliefs and truths from being correct. Until we discover new things, we can't say for sure that they are not there.
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Offline kharn012000

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2003, 06:15:47 PM »
If someone shows me some good, objective evidence to the contrary, then I'll change my mind. Given that no-one in recorded history has ever made any such evidence that I've ever seen, I'm thinking I'll die an atheist.
What about the bible? the first 4 of the new testament books are eye witness accounts of jesus.

Offline kharn012000

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2003, 06:17:34 PM »
Lol, but where is the proof for that? And what afterlife are we talking about? Heaven? Paradise? Nirvana? The Big Jacuzzi In The Sky?
Actually, Nirvana is the state of bliss experienced on Earth by good Buddhists.

Offline Archon Khiraq(danceman)

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2003, 06:19:21 PM »
something that have been trasnated so many times and as we are nothing more than human many many words in the bible isnt what it once was...
some things are just wrongly translated...
other translated to what the people translating wanted to see.
so no its definately not a reliable source
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Offline Pat Khils

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2003, 06:34:32 PM »
yes this is true Danceman, but its not going to ruin my belief or turn me against it.
Yes i beleive in God, and I'm a religious person, some of you might know my religion. Religion is not always about the truth and understanding of the universe, but sometimes its about morals and your attitude towards others. Also it draws a line between good and evil, sure this may be misleading in many ways but who said you have to follow the bible word for word? If you did that you would be a mindless follower of a cult, not a religion.

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Offline kharn012000

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2003, 06:39:08 PM »
i, personally, am a non-denominational christian. i believe that if you truly believe that Jesus died for you, and you are truly repentant of all you sins, you will go to heaven. Except for blasphemy, which God will not forgive, because it is a sin against him, and all the rest hurt other people.

Offline Archon Khiraq(danceman)

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2003, 06:51:49 PM »
seems i am going to hell then...
i hope the godess will keep my dead soul in natures warm arms then(not too warm though hihihihiih).

blasphemy is denying god right? which i am pretty sure i have done on a few occasions
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Offline Lomendil

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2003, 06:55:05 PM »
Quote
All interesting positions, to be sure.  Yet as I look at the world I find it really inconceivable that all this developed from mere chance.  Yes, I know about chaos theory and all that.... seeming order from randomness.  Still, the universe seems to scream at us every day that there IS an order, a purpose.  Just to examine the intricacies of the veins and cells in a leaf is to be awed by the beauty and complexity in nature.  To hear a sonnet by Shakespeare, to see the Parthenon at sunset in Athens, to look at the moon and realize that human beings have walked on its face... Perhaps they ARE just the result of randomly interacting subatomic particles, but NONE of us-- not even the atheists-- ever really act as if we believe that's true.  We go to work, we worry about the car payment and the kids' doctor bills, we live our lives as if they really do mean  something.  Why do we keep playing the game if we're so sure nobody's keeping score

Vaelyn, these are all indeed fine things, as are the majority of things in the universe, but why does there have to be some underlying order for them to exist? I don't see how the existance of beauty and complexity justifies it, other than as a gut reaction maybe. Bear in mind that our perception of what order actually is will be extremely subjective and based on our own (possibly?) narrow perception of reality.

Personally, I find all these things the more wondrous for believing that they stem from chaotic origins. A gut instinct? Even a preference? I've asked myself that, and I don't think so. Chaos is not a comforting concept, and I think I would actually prefer an ordered universe.

Maybe I'm a psyche-masochist! ;)


I do act as if everything is chaotic. This doesn't mean that I think everything is meaningless - it's that I don't find meaning in conjectural order. I find only meaning in the way that I feel about things in my universe.

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2003, 07:00:24 PM »
All these big posts scare me....
I believe in God. But not in the whole 'seven days' crap.

Offline Surface

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2003, 07:00:32 PM »
Religion is the opium of the masses (Marx - I think)

Someone once told me we all have a god shaped hole.

I told him he believed in a hole shaped god.

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