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Offline Alerian

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Revised 2k army..please review
« on: January 6, 2009, 01:54:25 PM »
Ok, this is my second revision in this topic, please give it a second look, as not only the list has change, but also some tactics and fluff :)

Thanks for all the input guys!  I have used some of your concerns to help make my list more tactically flexible, while sticking with my theme.  My Boss was already named Madd Maxx (in tribute to the movies), and the new BW kits have just given me even more ideas to work with, sticking with my Deffskullz.  I have ditched the Deffrollas, for a more Deffskullz "Dakka" approach, and added in Grabbing Claws for fluff...it's easier to loot a wagon if ya can just grab it on the move! Now, on to the list...

The boyz are at it again - taking everything that isn't nailed down... and 1/2 the stuff that is!  These Deffskulls love taking gear from the oomies in shiney armor...especially the ones in BLUE shiney armor, as it must be da bestest!  The only way those oomies could possibly beat da orks is all that blue shiney gear dey gotz...

Boss Madd Maxx has gathered his best boyz, and Big Mek together to steal as much as they can get their hands on. He is bringing along his two "Repo Wagons", which are specially outfitted for "acquiring" some more wagons and toys for the boyz.  Maxx loves the shiney toys of the oomies..and will go to any lengths to get them. In fact, even the cybork parts of Maxx's body are made from SM vehicles! 

The lootas in the clan are all packing Space Marine Terminator and vehicle heavy weapons, while the Shootas boyz have collected bolters like they were going out of style. In order to add speed to his raiding force, Maxx has recently "borrowed" several Deffkoptas from the Evil Suns, although he has no intention of giving them back.  Rounding out his motley crew, is his beloved looted Rhino, Bertha, which of course is armed with the biggest gun Maxx could find!

This is an all comers list, although it will face more MEQ than other armies.  It contains a fair amount of high strength shooting to back up the CC of the boys.  Each BW has a Kanon and 3 Big Shootas, the looted wagon has a Boomgun, and the Koptas are armed with TLRLs.  This is in addition to the firepower of the Lootas.

The strategy is for the 2 BWs (loaded up with Nobs, Boss, Mek and 20 slugga boys) to work together in order to take advantage of the KFF.  Their load out allows them to either rush forward to deliver their cargo against Dakka armies, or sit still and fire all of the BW's weapons for a round or two, in order to help thin out a CC army, prior to rushing in.  After delivering their cargo, the 2 wagons will continue to work together as a mobile firebase, with the Big Mek still inside, grating cover saves.  They can also be used to redeploy and grab/contest objectives late in the game, if they are still alive.

The other unit of slugga boys  and one unit of shoota boyz will follow behind the BWs for cover, while the Koptas tank hunt and harass the enemy.  The Lootas, Looted Wagon, and other shoota boys will form a firebase at a "home" objective to make sure that the Deffskullz keep it.  In an annihilation game, the shoota boys will just join in the fray behind the BWs.

HQs
Boss Madd Maxx - PK, Squig, Kombiskorcha, Cybork: 115
Big Mek - KFF: 85

Troops
10 Nobs, Painboy, 2x PK, Cybork, Bosspole, Waaagh banner: 350
Battlewagon (Repo Wagon) -  armor plates, ram, grabbin' claw, Kanon, 3x Big Shootas: 135

20 Slugga Boys , Nob w/ PK, Bosspole: 160

20 Slugga Boys , Nob w/ PK, Bosspole: 160

20 Shoota Boys (with bolters), Nob w/ Big Choppa, Bosspole, 2x Big Shootas: 150

20 Shoota Boys (with bolters), Nob w/ Big Choppa, Bosspole, 2x Big Shootas: 150

Elites
12 Lootas (with all SM heavy weapons): 180

Fast
3 Deffkoptas, 3 TLRL: 135

3 Deffkoptas, 3 TLRL: 135

Heavy
Battlewagon (Repo Wagon) -  riggers, armor plates, ram, grabbin' claw, Kanon, 3x Big Shootas: 140

Looted Rhino, Boomgun: 105

5 Scoring Units and 13 KPs


Edit...the following is my old list.
HQs
Boss Madd Maxx - PK, Squig, Kombiskorcha, Cybork: 115
Big Mek - KFF: 85

Troops
10 Nobs, Painboy, 2x PK, Cybork, Bosspole, Waaagh banner: 350
Battlewagon (looted) - Red (blue) paint, Rolla, riggers, armor plates, 3x Big Shootas: 145

20 Slugga Boys , Nob w/ PK, Bosspole: 160

20 Slugga Boys , Nob w/ PK, Bosspole: 160

20 Slugga Boys , Nob w/ PK, Bosspole: 160

20 Shoota Boys (with bolters), Nob w/ Big Choppa, Bosspole, 2x Big Shootas: 150

Deff Dread (looted), 2x Scorcha, Riggers, armor plates: 100 

Elites
12 Lootas (with all SM heavy weapons): 180

Fast
5 Deffkoptas, 5 TLRL, 1 Buzzsaw: 250

Heavy
Battlewagon (looted)- Red (blue) paint, Rolla, riggers, armor plates, 3x Big Shootas: 145


5 Scoring Units and 12 KPs
« Last Edit: January 9, 2009, 03:41:44 AM by Alerian »

Offline DropFall

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #1 on: January 8, 2009, 12:23:58 AM »
As requested a review by my Themed/Fluffy system, that can be found here


THEME COMPOSITION
You score a 2.
Quote
• Balanced - YYou have some themed elements but you also have some that are not.
- You've got some Lootas, a Looted SM Dread to be your Deff Dread, as well as painting the BW blue; but one would expect in a Deathskulls list more Lootas, perhaps a Looted Wagon (or 2, or 3), there to be a larger ratio of Shootas to Sluggas, and the BWs to made from heavily looted vehicles... but they aren't. You could push this to a 3 with some more themed changes.

FLUFF
You score a 0.
Quote
• No Fluff At All - What sort of Ork doesn‘t like bragging?
- You may have fluff somewhere, but you haven't posted it in this list.

PHOTOS
You score a 0.
Quote
• No Pics

COMPETITIVE ARMY COMPOSITION & WRITING SKILL
You score a 2.
Quote
• Good - You may not win, but you have a good all round grasp of how to write a list, and what units to take.
- I almost scored you a 3 for this, as you can write up a list so its clear and concise, and you know what units to take to be effective and you haven't wasted many if any points on useless wargear, but you army is poorly themed, and you haven't told me who you will/might be facing, so I marked you down.

TACTICS
You score a 1. 
Quote
• Typical Ork Tactician - You posted sound Ork tactics. Nothing new to most players, but could be helpful for those new to Orks.



You scored 5 out of a possible 20.
- It has some theme and a generally solid generic core to the list, but it fails under my Themed/Fluffy scrutiny.

DropFall out!




« Last Edit: January 8, 2009, 12:31:51 AM by DropFall »

Offline DropFall

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #2 on: January 8, 2009, 01:50:49 AM »
I never read the original thread, and when asked to review a list I shouldn't have to go thread hoping.

When asking for a review from either of us you need to make sure everything you want to be reviewed is in one thread, and preferably in one post. And with my review system, its not for everyone, just a niche in the army list market.
My intention is to inspire creative gaming, army list and themes and ideas in other Ork players armies by showing people good themed and fluffy lists.

Now if you would like to redo your army list post, I'd be happy to re-review it.
« Last Edit: January 8, 2009, 02:00:22 AM by DropFall »

Offline Alerian

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #3 on: January 8, 2009, 02:21:32 AM »
Ok, I revised it for you :)  Sorry, no pics... I will post some WIP, after I get my camera back from my wife.

Anyone else?
« Last Edit: January 8, 2009, 02:34:53 AM by Alerian »

Offline Locarno

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #4 on: January 8, 2009, 04:35:49 AM »
I like it from a model point of view.

The battlewagon rush I'm not convinced by - if you're thundering forwards in a tank, you're not going to be slowing down to keep the Deff Dread force-field protected, are you?

That aside, the list looks good. Slugga units without 'eavy weapons make sense - they should be hoofing it towards the enemy, so rokkits should probably never get fired.

You have good outflanking tank hunting from the deff koptas - primary target (given a wall of sixty footsloggers) is anything looking like artillery.....

Lootas and shootas form a decent one-two to keep a home objective secure. With only an 18" range, don't expect to do much with the shoota boyz other than the 'eavy weapons, but if your opponent tries to assault your home objective you'll be glad you had them rather than a throwaway grot unit. With enemy flankers, drop pods, and so on, it's easy enough to bypass the boyz. Equally, your big punch unit - the nobz - should do well at taking enemy strongpoints as they're a scoring unit too.

With Deffrolla battlewagons you can tank shock through (over!) skirmish screens and engage something important - which should be the primary target for your lootas; firstly because an advanced combat squad (or guard infantry squad, grots, kroot, or whatever) will leave da boyz stranded in rapid fire and flamer range if you just charge into them. Plus, if you tank shock past them, there's a good chance they will now be staring at your battlewagons' rather vulnerable arses with an assault weapon of some kind. AV10 open-topped no likee plasma gun in rapid fire range.

All in all, it's a very good list. You also have the option of 'stand and shoot' against the right opponents thanks to the lootas and battlewagons - although you may have trouble dropping heavier opponents (trust in the power klaw, the power klaw is good).


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Offline Andro Ist Keine Schwedischen

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #5 on: January 8, 2009, 01:05:45 PM »
Alright, review time again is it?  Here we go.

-----------------------

1/ Army Composition - 8/10

No complaints here, bar the size of the Deffkopta mob - I'd prefer to see smaller units for more harassment potential.  But the number of Boy mobs is good, the Deffdread can support them as well nicely while constantly running alongside, and the two Battlewagons give your opponant something to chew on. 

Though perhaps it is lacking slightly in fast units at this points level.

2/ Unit Upgrades - 7/10

The Warboss and Big Mek look good, and the Nobz are almost textbook (usually it's three Klaws, but it's open to taste).  The Slugga Boyz have no Rokkits, which I'm a fan of, but again it's personal taste so I won't call you on that one.  Battlewagons look fine, even if I'm not a fan of Blue Paint Jobs.  Deffdread looks great. 

Only major issue I have, again, is with the Deffkoptas.  5 Rokkits is good.  The single Buzzsaw I'm not so keen on.  This would be fine if it was in a seperate unit by itself for pure annoyance value, however, but I'd remove the Rokkits from it and just use it purely for tying up enemy shooting units in combat.

Lastly, not enough firepower to really deal with any serious AV14 opposition.  Could be a problem against Imperial Guard or Space Marines.

3/ Army Theme - 8/10

You can tell at a glance that this is a Deffskullz army.  That's very good.  Only problem I have with it is that there's not enough Lootas for my tastes and rather too many Slugga Boyz.  Not a big problem though.

4/ Tactical Overview - 6/10

Basic tactics, nothing more.  But then there's not much in the way of 'finesse' in this army, so there's not really alot you could say.  So only a minor issue, your basic tactics would work fine against most opponants.  I am concerned that only having a single 'tank hunter' assigned unit will be your downfall against armoured lists, though.

5/ Army List Layout - 9/10

Easy to read and not heavy on abbrieviations.

6/ Army Pictures - 0/10

None, obviously.  Shame, because I'd like to see your Looted Battlewagons and Dread.

Total - 38/60

Good list, only 'real' problem being a lack of serious AT firepower or mobility.  Adding Rokkits to the Slugga Boyz would certainly help, as would breaking up the Deffkoptas into smaller units.  Other then that there's not much I could suggest without a radical list alternation.

If I was to suggest radical changes it would be to have more Shoota Boys instead of Sluggas, removal of the Deffdread for more Lootas and a smattering of Rokkits added here and there.  But that's all personal preference, so good luck with your future games.

~Andromidius
aka. Boris the Bear

Offline Alerian

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #6 on: January 8, 2009, 03:02:56 PM »
Well...it looks like a few cahnges are in order.

My wife supriased me today..she had ordered me 2 of the new BW kits for Christmas, and they just arrived today, thanks to the release date.  That means that my 2 LRs have been saved from teh Exacto Fairy...for now.  They might have to turn into Crusaders for my DA, but that is another story.

This means that I need to fit more looted tanks into the army to keep with the theme...

What do you guys think of ditching the 5 Deffkoptas for 2 Rhinos converted into Looted wagons with Boomguns and 'ard cases?  I am liking the looks of the turrets from the new BW kits to go on the rhinos for Boomguns.  This would free up some points to give the Slugga boyz rokkits, just in case.  I would lose speed, but gain firepower.

Additionally, thanks for the input so far, I am going to swap out one unit of slugga poyz for Shootas.  I would love to put in more Lootas, but I am out of SM heavy weapon bits after doing the first squad, so a second will have to wait. :)

P.S. On a side note, the 2 grabbing claws that I got in the kits are just sweet for my looted Dread's CC weapons...time to cut him up again - I am just glad that he wasn't painted yet  ;D
« Last Edit: January 8, 2009, 03:09:44 PM by Alerian »

Offline Bosse

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #7 on: January 8, 2009, 03:11:07 PM »
Despite that you got the GW Battlewagons you could still make them look very looted quite easily.  I think that would fit the theme of the army well.

I think the 5 man squad of Koptas is too big.  I would break them up into smaller like 3 and 2 Or even 1 2 2. Easier to hide and less chance of running 4 guys off the table.

I like the looted wagon with the boomgun. I think taking 1 and keeping some koptas would be my choice. That would give you 2 BWs a dread and a looted wagon.  The wagon may actually survive a little.

~Bosse

Offline Alerian

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #8 on: January 8, 2009, 04:38:36 PM »
hmmm...good point!

I think I like the idea of dropping down to 3 koptas with TWRL, and taking a Looted Rhino with Boomgun and 'ard case.  That comes to the same points as my old Deffkopta unit.  It let's me fit more fluff in, while also allowing me to target 2 different units.

I do see the point of dealing with AV 14.  My Eldar kill that with Dragons, Singing Spears/witchblades, and BLs.  My Dualwing have Meltas and PF/TH.  I figures that I would just try to CC  AV 14 or smash it with the Deff Rolla.  I know that using the Rolla during a ram is in debate right now (it being a special kind of tank shock and all), but in our local meta, we will continue to allow it, until a FAQ says otherwise.  I just don't see much point in trying to shoot AV14 with the stuff in the Ork dex  :'(   

Offline Andro Ist Keine Schwedischen

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #9 on: January 8, 2009, 05:34:54 PM »
Switching a few Deffkoptas for a Looted Boomwagon sounds good to me.  As does the other changes you've suggested.  Post a revised list when you're ready and I'll give it the look over.

~Andromidius
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Offline DropFall

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #10 on: January 8, 2009, 10:30:09 PM »
If your going to revise it again. Just make changes to the 1st post and then contact me again, as I was just about to re-review your list for you.

Offline Gutstikk

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #11 on: January 9, 2009, 12:57:29 AM »
No need to do a re-review - I know how long these things can take! I'm more interested in seeing a wide variety of reviews than the same list in several forms getting several reviews, if ya dig it.

Also, if your list gets reviewed, please make changes in a new post, or edit them in following the original list and note the revision. This way people can reference where the reviewer's points are coming from.

Offline DropFall

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #12 on: January 9, 2009, 03:15:12 AM »
There wouldn't be several reviews, just 1 on his final-revised list.

Offline Alerian

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Re: Revised 2k army..please review
« Reply #13 on: January 9, 2009, 03:50:18 AM »
ok... I redid the army in the OP.  Please let me know what you think :)

 


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