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Author Topic: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!  (Read 2339 times)

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Offline Lone_Monkey

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Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« on: November 5, 2012, 02:44:40 PM »
Hey all! New to here, as a poster, but been reading as a guest for awhile. I am a long time 40k player (started when 3rd hit and been a DE guy ever since) and have played nearly every army at some point or another throughout my GW career. In the last 6 months or so though, I have sold away everything but my DE and started a Corsair force.

I love the idea and the units and such behind the Corsairs, but have been struggling really badly to be competitive with them (while simultaneously dissuading everyone of their notions that FW is over-powered  ;D). I've probably gotten about a dozen games with them and have only won once. Now I understand that there is a learning curve to every army and losing is a part of the game sure, but I am really struggling to even play a "fun" game where I'm not getting rolled. I have had great success with my DE and can win consistently with them so I don't feel this is entirely a failing on my part as a player. I guess what I'm seeking here is some advice from the community. How have your Corsairs fared in 6th? What are some units that are must haves? What are never takes? WHat can I do with what I own to make them more competitive on our 4x6 battlefields?

Here's what I own so you can get an idea of the toolbox I have to work with;

Prince - Wing, PW/Saber, Fusion Pistol
Void Dreamer - Witchblade

Harlequins x10 (Master, Seer and Jester, 4x Kiss, 2x Fusion Pistol)
Warp Spiders x10
Fire Dragons x6 (Firepike Exarch)
Rangers/Pathfinders x5

Corsairs x10 - Jetpacks, EML x2
Corsairs x10 - Jetpacks, Fusion Gun x2, Felarch w/ Fusion Pistol
Corsairs x10 Shuriken Cannon x2, Flamer x2
Corsair Jetbikes x6 - Felarch / Fusion Pistol
Wasp Assault Walkers x3 - Scatter Laser x6
Corsair Falcon x2 - Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser

Hornet x2 - Pulse Laser x4
Nightwing Interceptor x2
Night Spinner - Shuriken Cannon

Warp Hunter x2 - Shuriken Cannon

In my area 2000 points is the norm. I have fought Orks, Necrons, Black Templars, Chaos, Tyranids, Space Wolves and Grey Knights in y dozen or so battles and my only win with them has been against Codex: Space Marines.

A typical list for me has had either of the HQ's. Dragons if I use the Prince, Spiders if I use the Dreamer. Both Jetpack Squads, occasionally a 5 man Falcon squad, the bikes, Wasps, Hornets, both Nightwings and the Warp Hunters.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm not looking to make a win at all costs list, I just want to be competitive so I can have some fun winning or losing and not feel so one-sided. I really don't wanna give up on the Corsair idea but i need to figure something out.

Thanks for looking and I look forward to hearing from you all.  ;D
« Last Edit: November 5, 2012, 07:25:16 PM by Lone_Monkey »
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Offline Zilverscale

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #1 on: November 6, 2012, 04:26:44 AM »
Looks pretty ok unit choices to me.

1 tactic I've been getting rather positive results on is using a prince and 2x 5 man fusion gun suiciders that DS behind an enemy tank and blast it (DS due to prince special rule).

I'd get 2x shuric can on the jetbikers as those work good due to their save.

Hmm you seem to have enough dakka in the list...maybe the dice gods are not favourable to you at those battles?

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Offline Arquarian

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #2 on: November 6, 2012, 05:15:50 AM »
I'd agree, you seem to have some good units there and so should be able to effect some wins I would have thought.

What I would say is that your have a good mix of stand off units and close support units and the two don't work well together in my experience as Corsairs are too fragile to lose troops needlessly. IUf anything I'd say we were more fragile than DE or CWE.

General tactics I've found good for Corsairs to to pic one area of the battlefield and own it completely.  Generally speaking this means taking fast ranged weapons.  You can outmanoeuvre your enemy and bring down some serious hurt on the enemy from a far.  The new would allocation rules really do us a favour here   :D

I'm not a fan of the close support path as massed rapid fire weapons, which I see a lot of, seems to chew my corsairs up quite quickly.

My general rule for constructing a list is to cram in as many S6 / S8 weapons as possible.
From your list of models I'd be trying to make a list out of the following;

Void Dreamer - Witchblade

Harlequins x10 (Master, Seer and Jester, 4x Kiss, 2x Fusion Pistol)
Warp Spiders x10

Corsairs x10 - Jetpacks, EML x2
Corsairs x10 - Jetpacks - Shuriken Cannon x2, Flamer x2
Corsair Jetbikes x6 - Felarch / Fusion Pistol
Wasp Assault Walkers x 2 - Scatter Laser x 4

Hornet x2 - Pulse Laser x4
Nightwing Interceptor x2


This is by no means the only way.  Zilverscale is a good general and has different ideas than me.  Khorne25 who lurks around here is also a good sense of what works and like Zilverscale preferws the up front and personal touch with DS'ing dragons and Warp Hunters.

Offline Lone_Monkey

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #3 on: November 6, 2012, 09:50:07 AM »
Thanks for the replys!

@Zilverscale - The bikes do have double cannons, I just omitted them by accident. And yes, I have felt like my dice have been against me, but I can't do much there.

@Aqaurian - If I'm going for stand off type units, are the Harlies meant to stay back and deal with any threats that get too close? I feel they are out of place among all the others. Also, I find it suprising that the Warp Hunters didn't make the list as I see them as an almost auto-include. Have you had decent luck with this style of a list? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the input and I have a club event this weekend where I should be looking to get in 3 games or so, so I plan to try this out for sure, just looking to make sure I play it right. Any other info to be had beyond "dominate and area"?
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Offline Arquarian

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #4 on: November 6, 2012, 10:01:14 AM »
I have to be honest I have not had a lot of sucess from my corsairs but I an limited currently by my model count. I also try to make things work that I should really know better wouldn't work if I had the support fo 10 Abaddons.

The Harlequins would be a counter attack unit as someone somewhere will pin you to a corner and will want to rip your throt out. Counter assualt with the harlequins and let the rest of the army turbo boost away.

The Warp hunter I believe work best when they are up close and using the aether-rift. I'f you want them to stand back and fire those D-cannons indirectly then you'll need more falcon hulls for target saturation. Other wise they will simply be easy targets for missile launchers, heavy weapons teams, lascannons etc etc...


Offline Lone_Monkey

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #5 on: November 6, 2012, 10:21:16 AM »
Good point on the Warp Hunters. While the barrage is nice, it does still suffer form scatter and the Aether-rift usually means your going to get assaulted soon. You've definitely given me a different perspective to approach from.

How do you feel about bikes and Hornets for deployment? Should I keep them back to outflank, or should they start on the board and scout ahead?
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Offline Arquarian

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #6 on: November 6, 2012, 11:55:10 AM »
How do you feel about bikes and Hornets for deployment? Should I keep them back to outflank, or should they start on the board and scout ahead?
Bikes should be used as harrassers and should by sniping round the back to get at vulbnerable rear armour. Or yo-yoing and keeping at maximum range ducking behind cover.  (therefore the fusion pistol on the Felarch is a little redundent)

Hornets, especially how you've kitted them out with Pulse lasers, should take full advantage of that long range. They should always move and therefore benefit from the jink save but their only real defense is the long range of the weapon. if they go near anything like a bltgun you'll start taking casualties.

Corsairs, in my mind, play like 4th ed Tau. Stand at the back and shoot the crap out of anything that moves..  Everytime I've palyed and won this is how I've won using my Corsairs. admittedly I'm on;y winning about 50% of my games with my Corsair at the moment though.
« Last Edit: November 6, 2012, 11:56:12 AM by Arquarian »

Offline Khorne25

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2012, 02:56:25 PM »
Hmmm a great fluffy list but a few things to point out:

- Not to dissuade you from trying, but I feel (and a few others too) that the Prince is a waste of points unless youre designing your list off the deepstrike mechanics. The Dreamer is much more economical use of points
- Jetpack Corsairs are no better than Guardians, sneeze and they fall over, while they can bring more dakka, they are weak and do not have the advantage of Warlocks/Avatar, if theyre within 24" to use their SCs, then they will take effective return fire. EMLs are the better of the two Heavy choices. I can see where youre going with the fusion guns, but they are suicide, I wouldnt even both putting a Felarch in there

- The CWE Outcasts rule only allows you to take one choice of CWE outcast, I would keep the Fire Dragons, but give them a Wave Serpent.
- Rangers are nice but as Elites they do not score
- Harlequins are bit of a points sink, what is their role? Counter assault or deepstrike?

- CJBs should have two SCs rather than a Felarch with Fusion pistol
- Fast Attack is solid, but consider dropping the SC from the Nightspinner

- I would add one more HS, like Eldar, it is a damn shame if you dont use up all your HS slots, another Warp Hunter is probably ideal. I have two Warp Hunters but have always felt a third would have really added that much more dakka the corsairs need.

General comments on Corsairs:

Foot/jetpack corsairs lists are fairly easy to knock down, especially at high levels. They one time I have seen jetpack style lists work best is in Zone Mortalis.
Take full advantage of the mech you can field as a Corsair, Falcons as Dedi Transports and 3 Warp Hunters are solid (although a quite large points sink).
Hornets/Wasps are the best way of adding dakka. Good that youre using pulse lasers but maybe more would not be amiss

At the moment, you kinda mixing and matching rather than staying with one doctrine or another. Concentrate on mobile dakka, and the ability to field long range weapons (pulse lasers, EMLs, SLs).
Corsairs are very weak when it comes to melee, if at all the only practical melee unit we have is the Corsair Jetbikes who can be used to finish off a squad.


My Voidborn Eldar Corsairs

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Former armies:
Tau, SM, CSM, 3rd Ed DE (updating to 5th Ed)

Offline Lone_Monkey

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 01:49:08 AM »
@Khorne25 - Thanks for the input, and I agree with many of the points you've pointed out. The list at the top was simply a catalog of what I own, not a list that I field.

So I got in 3 games yesterday (Saturday) with a record of 2-1. The list I took was as follows -

Corsairs -
Corsair Prince; Void Saber, Fusion Pistol, Shadowfield, Jet Pack

Outcast Fire Dragons x6; Exarch w/ Firepike

Corsairs x5; Shuriken Cannon, Flamer
Corsairs x5; Shuriken Cannon, Flamer
Corsairs x10; EML x2, Jet Packs
Wasps x3; Scatter Laser x6

Nightwing
Nightwing

Warp Hunter; Shuriken Cannon
Warp Hunter; Shuriken Cannon

Eldar Allies -
Eldrad Uthran

Harlequins x10; Troupe Master, Shadowseer, Harlequins Kiss x10, Fusion Pistol x2

Dire Avengers x10; Exarch, Dual Cats, Bladestorm

My first fight was against a Cultist heavy chaos list, supported by Autocannon Havocs, Berzerkers in a Land Raider Raptors adn an ADL w/ a Quad gun. I was quite successfully able to use my mobility to stay out of range and pick him off from afar. It helped immensely when my first Nightwing came in and blew up his Land Raider turn 2. The mission was Crusade with DoW deployment. He conceded on turn 4.

Fight number two was against Grey Knights. Draigo and 5 Paladins in a Crusader, Purifiers in a Razorback, GK's in another razorback and another squad in a Rhino, 2 Psyflemen Dreads and a Storm Raven. The Raven stayed in reserve as well as a Dread who had been given outflank. The Mission was Big Guns, with the long table deployment. I was able to use the huge distance to keep my tanks out range of his fire support while my Avenger, Dragons and Jet Pack Corsairs Deep Struck in to deal with his back field. Eldrad, the Prince and the Harlies were able to outflank due to a Warlord trait and came in and tore up from the side. Once again my Nightwings did some heavy lifting, as one took out the Land Raider while the other put a huge dent in the Draigo squad. Another turn 4 concession.

Game three was another story. I faced down a Chaos Marine army of a Daemon Prince, 30 Marines, 3 Forgefiends and 3 Helldrakes. He stole the initiative and it went downhill from there. His Fiends just shredded everything in site and his Drakes flew on and torched everybody else. My Dragons mishaped on the DS and I rolled a 1. The only high point was my Harlie/Eldrad/Prince unit took the Damon Prince down in CC. This list is one I've fought before and I will admit I find it a tough nut to crack. The immense amount Str 8 guns that the Fiends carry is too much for me to bear. I'm not sure what to do against them.

Today (Sunday) I fought another Chaos list. Epidemius with a bunch of Nurglings, and 20 Plaguebearers plus 4 Obliterators. There was also a Chaos Lord and a level 3 Nurgle Sorcerer. Finally there was a Land raider and 85 MoN Cultists. I dropped the Avengers for a 5 man Ranger squad and an Aegis Defense Line. The fight didn't go well for my opponent. My Warp Hunters took huge chunks out of Cultists and my Dragons dropped in and killed his Land Raider before moving over and killing Epidemius with the help of my Nightwings. My Harlie/Eldrad/Prince unit stumbled in the assault through cover and ended up receiving it instead from the Lord/Sorcerer/Cultist unit. Despite losing the charge, they held out and ended up chasing them down. His 20 Plaguebearers mishapped on the DS and were lost, pretty much taking out his last chance at recovering from the loss. When it was all said and done I had lost 6 Harlequins and he had 2 Oblits and 3 Nurgling bases left.

What I've realized here is that the Corsairs need a rock unit, something that they sorely lack in their native list. The addition of Eldrad and his ridiculous toolbox of powers give you what you need to make such a unit and with re-rollable saves (2+ in cover and 2++ with the Prince in front). It requires a massive amount of firepower to put a dent in them and it throws quite a wrench in the plans of your opponent.

All in all, I am feeling a little bit better about them after this weekend and the games I played.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 08:47:34 AM by Lone_Monkey »
happiness is a temporary chemical imbalance of the true state of mind.

Offline Khorne25

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2012, 07:20:53 AM »
Corsairs -
Corsair Prince; Void Saber, Fusion Pistol, Shadowfield, Jet Pack

Outcast Fire Dragons x6; Exarch w/ Firepike

Corsairs x5; Shuriken Cannon, Flamer
Corsairs x5; Shuriken Cannon, Flamer
Corsairs x10; EML x2, Jet Packs
Wasps x3; Scatter Laser x6

Nightwing
Nightwing

Warp Hunter; Shuriken Cannon
Warp Hunter; Shuriken Cannon

Eldar Allies -
Eldrad Uthran

Harlequins x10; Troupe Master, Shadowseer, Harlequins Kiss x10, Fusion Pistil x2

Dire Avengers x10; Exarch, Dual Cats, Bladestorm

What I've realized here is that the Corsairs need a rock unit, something that they sorely lack in their native list. The addition of Eldrad and his ridiculous toolbox of powers give you what you need to make such a unit and with re-rollable saves (2+ in cover and 2++ with the Prince in front). It requires a massive amount of firepower to put a dent in them and it throws quite a wrench in the plans of your opponent.

I really like this list, can be tweaked but the strength is definately there.

You are absolutely right, as you can imagine in 5th Ed without allies the Corsair dakka had no rock to base upon, and the lack of Farseer support hamstrung the Eldar statline.

I am glad you have found how to make the Corsairs work for you, I am beginning to increasingly think that the Corsairs are best played as Allies or supported by a strong Allied detachment as you have. Dark Eldar would work too, perhaps not as well as CWE. Will tinker with army lists a bit.

EDIT: Sorry my bad on the army lists, I should learn to read :)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 07:22:49 AM by Khorne25 »


My Voidborn Eldar Corsairs

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Former armies:
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Offline Lone_Monkey

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2012, 08:53:34 AM »
Lol, no sweat on the misread, I have a similar post elsewhere and a couple others did the same. I'm definitely interested in any tweaks you wanna throw out. The Avengers did a bit of damage in the games I played over the weekend, but weren't game changers by any means. Likewise, when I played on Sunday and used Rangers instead (don't own any Avengers yet and didn't have my buddy's models) they did a good job sitting on an objective without much other impact. On the other hand, with all the threats coming at my opponent, they never saw a single shot come their way.
happiness is a temporary chemical imbalance of the true state of mind.

Offline Calindor

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Re: Eldar Corsairs. Help!!
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2012, 02:49:13 AM »
I really liked your army list and very intersting to read of you played with it. Those armies you meet was pretty hard too.

 


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