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Author Topic: My take on the Exodites - updated 04/16/2012  (Read 4720 times)

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Offline Ambience 327

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My take on the Exodites - updated 04/16/2012
« on: December 30, 2009, 12:44:13 PM »
My primary goal in the creation of this Codex was to create something fresh and new. Rather than just "Eldar who ride dinosaurs" (as a lot of the Exodite lists I see usually are), or "Wood Elves in Space" (as my earlier attempts turned out to be), I have endeavored to give the Exodites a distinctive culture and playstyle that will make them both fun and challenging to play with or against. I believe that I have met that goal. Wheras Craftworld Eldar use their elite specialist units and high mobility to out-maneuver their opponents, my Exodites rely on heavy cavalry charges, backed up by small hordes of not-quite-reliable beasts and a smattering of monstrous creatures thrown in for good measure.

You can now download a PDF file from Box.com as well - click here!

You can check out the latest version of the codex below. I'd love to hear what people think.

CLICK HERE

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2009, 02:19:14 PM »
I'd love to see it, but it has too much information lifted directly from existing Games Workshop IP.  The Ranger, Warwalker, and Harlequin pages, for instance, plagiarize from Codex: Eldar.  When you want to use an existing unit, only a page reference, "See Codex: Eldar, pgX," is acceptable.

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Offline Ambience 327

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2009, 01:26:29 PM »
Ack! You are absolutely correct, and I actually meant to remove the pages for those units, and their army list entries, when I published it. I put them in for my own private use. As you can see in the restored link above, these pages have been removed from the Codex! So sorry for forgetting - it was one detail that I missed in the middle of all of my other revisions, spell-checking and such as I prepared to publish!

Offline Rasmus

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2009, 01:34:17 PM »
You still have a LOT of copyright-protected information, including reference-stats for published weapons and images that GW owns. So you did a nice try, but it is not enough just yet.

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Offline Ambience 327

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #4 on: January 5, 2010, 07:32:17 AM »
Ok, sorry for all of the hassle and such, and thanks for Rasmus for taking his time to check this out before I re-posted again. The Codex is now compliant with 40K Online's policies, so please take a look at it and let me know what you think.

Offline Rasmus

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #5 on: January 5, 2010, 07:50:54 AM »
First thoughts here, apart from the format, which makes it unnecessarily hard to read and comment this.

9 Warwalkers and 3 big beasts in one list? Isn't that a bit much? Why isn't Warwalker in Heavy where it belongs?

WAY too much stealth here. This army would quickly be impossible to fight. Move through cover on everything might work out, but to give nearly everything stealth is stretching it, especially when you tac on an additional invulnerable save on top of it.

Dyann is vastly overgeared for his points, compared to a PL for instance.
Lil'korum is simply overpowered for his points.

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Offline Ambience 327

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #6 on: January 6, 2010, 12:30:00 PM »
Thanks for the honest feedback there Rasmus. This is still very much a work in progress, and is the most under-playtested of my published army lists as of now.

First thoughts here, apart from the format, which makes it unnecessarily hard to read and comment this.

I see your point, but I think this is more of a personal style choice. I railed against it when GW switched to this format, but I find that once you get a handle on the special rules and wargear of your army, it is actually easier to do your list-building with the streamlined army lists. Thus, I have adopted the same format for my own lists.

9 Warwalkers and 3 big beasts in one list? Isn't that a bit much? Why isn't Warwalker in Heavy where it belongs?

The Fast Attack section was rather lacking, so I put the War Walkers in there to beef it up a bit. I'm on the fence about its FOC placement though. I really don't know what else I could add to Fast Attack, but I think it deserves to be more than just Dragonwarders and Drakes. If I leave it in FA, I might make the War Walker Kindred 0-1. (I don't think like a Power Gamer, so the idea of a 9 walker list didn't even occur to me!)

WAY too much stealth here. This army would quickly be impossible to fight. Move through cover on everything might work out, but to give nearly everything stealth is stretching it, especially when you tac on an additional invulnerable save on top of it.

I mistakenly thought that trees/jungle terrain gave a 5+ cover save, and improving that to 4+ didn't seem over the top to me. After looking again, I see it is generally 4+, and an army-wide 3+ cover save in such terrain is a bit much. I would like to keep it in some fashion, however, as I think those used to moving through the jungle and fighting within it would be a bit better at hiding in it as well, and it just seems to fit. I'm thinking that maybe if a unit has not moved in their own Movement Phase, run in the Shooting Phase or Assaulted in the Assault Phase (basically, remained stationary in their last turn), they gain Stealth for jungle/woods. Most of my Exodite units are really only effective on the move, so this would be a lot like going to ground for them, without the penalty of missing your next turn of movement - i.e. you are able to do it when it won't kill your battle plan. Of course, adding in going to ground on top would give them +2, for a 2+ cover save. That isn't unheard of, but it might still be a bit much. I'll have to think long and hard on this one.

Dyann is vastly overgeared for his points, compared to a PL for instance.

After carefully going over the pros and cons, I believe I agree. However, I'm not sure quite how much to bump him by. I also wonder if perhaps the Dragon King and Dragon Prince (or at least some of their wargear) might be a little under-costed. Any opinion here?

Lil'korum is simply overpowered for his points.

Again, I agree. These really were just preliminary numbers, but I think that perhaps a boost of ~30 points or so might be in order. Thoughts?

Offline Rasmus

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #7 on: January 6, 2010, 01:00:46 PM »
First thoughts here, apart from the format, which makes it unnecessarily hard to read and comment this.

I see your point, but I think this is more of a personal style choice. I railed against it when GW switched to this format, but I find that once you get a handle on the special rules and wargear of your army, it is actually easier to do your list-building with the streamlined army lists. Thus, I have adopted the same format for my own lists.
Oh, I was n't talking about hte layout, that's fine. It is the online document-sharing that is really not working for me. Just my opinion of course, but I would much have preferred a pdf or forum post I could have in the window next to this one. :)

Quote
9 Warwalkers and 3 big beasts in one list? Isn't that a bit much? Why isn't Warwalker in Heavy where it belongs?

The Fast Attack section was rather lacking, so I put the War Walkers in there to beef it up a bit. I'm on the fence about its FOC placement though. I really don't know what else I could add to Fast Attack, but I think it deserves to be more than just Dragonwarders and Drakes. If I leave it in FA, I might make the War Walker Kindred 0-1. (I don't think like a Power Gamer, so the idea of a 9 walker list didn't even occur to me!)
Two suggestions
1. Move Walkers to Heavy where they belong and put Vyper into Fast. If yo ucan get Craftworld-tech you might as well get the right kind. :)
2. Keep Warwalkers in Fast, but make it 1 Walker per choice, not a squadron of three.


Quote
Dyann is vastly overgeared for his points, compared to a PL for instance.

After carefully going over the pros and cons, I believe I agree. However, I'm not sure quite how much to bump him by. I also wonder if perhaps the Dragon King and Dragon Prince (or at least some of their wargear) might be a little under-costed. Any opinion here?
I think that you are right on both counts. You could push the King and Prince up a few points and possibly make some of Dyann's gear optional while keeping his points roughly the same, so that if you want him to be that powerful you would have to pay for it in optional gear.


Quote
Lil'korum is simply overpowered for his points.

Again, I agree. These really were just preliminary numbers, but I think that perhaps a boost of ~30 points or so might be in order. Thoughts?
That seems about right, at least at first glance. Mind you, I have not sat down and run the numbers or tested this, it is just a first impression.

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Offline Ambience 327

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #8 on: January 7, 2010, 07:30:26 AM »
Oh, I was n't talking about hte layout, that's fine. It is the online document-sharing that is really not working for me. Just my opinion of course, but I would much have preferred a pdf or forum post I could have in the window next to this one. :)

Oh, I see what you're talking about now. Actually, you can easily get this as a PDF using Scribd. See up right above the document itself - where it says "Download"? Click that, and you can get it in a PDF file. If that doesn't work (it won't for everyone, not sure why), click the "CLICK HERE" link below the document and it will take you to the main Scribd page, where the Download button is much more friendly. After clicking that, it will give you several options, including PDF Document. Save or open that and you will be golden. :)

Two suggestions
1. Move Walkers to Heavy where they belong and put Vyper into Fast. If yo ucan get Craftworld-tech you might as well get the right kind. :)
2. Keep Warwalkers in Fast, but make it 1 Walker per choice, not a squadron of three.

I was trying to stay away from the skimmers if at all possible. It isn't that I think the Exodites wouldn't have that tech, just that I think it might be one of those things they willingly go without to avoid falling into decadence and hedonism. Remember, there are underpinnings of "space Amish" here - there will be things that could make life easier, that they eschew in favor of what they see as a better lifestyle.

I will add the "1 Walker per choice" idea to the mix as I contemplate what to do with them, though I think that is rather limiting as if you want more than one walker you have to give up another FA slot that could be filled with something else. We'll see.

I think that you are right on both counts. You could push the King and Prince up a few points and possibly make some of Dyann's gear optional while keeping his points roughly the same, so that if you want him to be that powerful you would have to pay for it in optional gear.

That is a good idea actually. At the very least, the Relics should be optional for him, as he might not always ride to war with them, saving them for only the most dire situations so as to not risk damaging them in a small skirmish when they aren't really necessary.



Again, thanks for taking them time to really give this stuff a look. I highly value constructive criticism.

Offline Rasmus

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #9 on: January 7, 2010, 09:17:09 AM »
If you want to stay away from the Craftworld tech, specifically the skimmers, but you have dinosaurs and then throw in walkers in the mix it does not seem a far stretch that if you include one you include both. However, if you want to limit the introduction of Craftworlder tech I would suggest you remove the walkers and add in the Support weapon batteries as heavies instead. They are just as shooty as the walkers, but with a lower profile, and can "blend in" better.

As for scribd - I think you are better off just making a PDF and posting a link to it, not a lot of people will be patient enough to hunt through interfaces/instructions on how to obtain the format they want, sadly.

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Offline Ambience 327

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #10 on: January 8, 2010, 07:37:12 AM »
I'll look into another system of delivery, but what I like about Scribd is I can upload revisions and the link doesn't change at all.

Regarding the War Walkers, I chose them in the first place because the Exodites already have a precedent for using walkers of a sort - the Knight suits. I thought that the War Walkers fit in with that idea, but that I would stay away from the anti-grav tech (skimmers, weapons platforms, etc). The idea is that they are ok with being mounted on/in things (dragons, megadons, knight suits, war walkers) but that anti-grav tech just makes life too easy and isn't for them.

Offline Rasmus

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #11 on: January 8, 2010, 08:02:33 AM »
I'll look into another system of delivery, but what I like about Scribd is I can upload revisions and the link doesn't change at all.
You could likewise make a PDF and just upload it with the same name, and the link would not change. :)

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Offline Ambience 327

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #12 on: January 8, 2010, 12:52:58 PM »
That depends on where you host the file. I don't have dedicated hosting space of my own. Any suggestions on good file hosting for non-images?

I have revised the Exodite codex with some of the suggestions you gave, as well as a few tidy-up things that I noticed. Below is a summary of the changes in this version:

- Removed Stealth from the Jungle Born special rule - it was just too much
- Reworded the Blade of Vaul's special rule to be more clear as to what happens
- The Dragon King and Dragon Prince have had their points costs increased slightly
- All of the Artifacts of Vaul have had their points costs increased
- Dyann Al'Athar has had his points cost increased by +25
- Lir'Kurom Furte has had his points cost increased by +40
- War Walker Kindreds are now 0-1 choices



01/19/10 Edit: Further updates (the new version of the Codex is available at the link in the first post):

-Added the rules for the Herdwarden's Drake Arrows, which had been left out by accident.

-Added Swarm Arrows to the Herdwarden's arsenal.

-Added the "Way of the Hunter" special rule for Herdwardens to make the Dragonwarders more attractive, and to give the Exodites one more ranged anti-tank option without making the other Dragonwarders' shooting less effective.

-Fixed the Megadon's Army List Entry, replacing "Furious Charge" with the intended "Thunderous Charge"


Basically, the Dragonwarders just weren't a very exciting option, and now they have a few more choices to allow them to be a bit more versatile and a more useful unit overall.

Offline Ambience 327

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2010, 01:26:01 PM »
I don't think this counts as "bumping", since I am adding a substantial update.

Another round of updates (the new version of the Codex is available at the link in the first post):

-Added Sailback/Firemouth Unit Entry
-Added Sailback/Firemouth Army List Entry
-Updated "Exodites in Competitive Play" to include Sailbacks/Firemouths
(Sailbacks and Firemouths were added for three reasons:
1) The Exodites lacked anything in Heavy Support that wasn't a Monstrous Creature
2) The Exodites lacked any kind of barrage/artillery type weapon
3) In my opinion, the more species of dinosaur-like creatures I can get into this list, the more interesting it will be.)

- Added "Hit & Run" to Drakes. They were still lacking something to make them a tryly attractive option. This now gives them a bit more versatility, and means they might get to use their Fiery Breath more than once in a battle. (They tend to get bogged down, which can be a good thing as they are swarms and this can serve a useful function, but this lets them choose to bog down their opponents, then slip away only to return and cause even more havoc by burning them again, then charging again.)

- Increased the Strength of Drake Arrows to 8 to be in-line with other Melta-type weapons. They just weren't strong enough to do their job properly. Now they are a very viable choice.

- Added "Pinning" to the profile of Swarm Arrows. They just weren't worth 10 points on their own, especially with being "Heavy" type. I wanted to keep the "move and fire Wriathbow or sit and fire Swarm" aspect, but make them attractive enough to consider taking instead of Drake Arrows.

- Updated the wording in the options of the Kindred Guard so that Dragonsingers can take Dragon Helms and upgrade their Dragon Lance to a Laser Lance. This was how it was always intended to be - the wording was just in error. (I don't want the Spiritsinger to be able to do so, but the Dragonsinger should, just as they are allowed in the Noble Knight kindreds.)

- Lowered the cost of the Dragon Prince to 50. He was just a bit too expensive, and taking a Dragon King instead was just too much of a no-brainer, especially when you consider that a Dragon Prince with a Hunting Drake was the same cost as the Dragon King, but still had -1WS, -1BS, -1W, -1Ld and no Sovereignty. The cost now should be just about right I think.

- Reworked Lir'Kurom Fürte's background a bit, making him both a Dragonsinger and a Dragon King. Added the special rule "The Beastcalmer". His cost has been increased to 190 pts to accommodate these changes. This was done to give him a bit more character, and to better explain how he was able to tame and ride a Carnosaur when no other Exodite has managed that feat.

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #14 on: November 4, 2010, 12:35:59 PM »
I know this is an old topic, but i love the whole exodite theme and really liked this codex!

I just wanted to ask if you ever got to try it out in a battle and how it worked.

Aplogies if this project hasn't been even thought about for as long as it's been since the last post, but then i suppose no one will be reading this anyway so there's no one to offend! :P

Offline Ambience 327

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Re: My take on the Exodites
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2012, 12:06:11 PM »
I know it has been a while, but... New version uploaded! (links in 1st post - including a new link allowing you to download the PDF from Box.com)

Update Notes (lots of changes!):

Numerous bits of fluff and rules were given minor clarifications. These are largely simple fixes and better explanations, and will not be listed separately.

Exodite Beasts/Dragonsinger interaction range changed to 18" to allow a bit more flexibility in movement/deployment. Ballad of the Beast range changed to 36" as well.

Armour of Vaul changed to a 2+/3++ save. The Invulnerable Save based on Ld was just too good. To keep some of his considerable resilience, however, he may now re-roll ALL failed Armour and Invulnerable Saves if he has the full Relic set. Cost dropped slightly.

Added the Rending rule to the Blade of Vaul to give it a bit more oomph. Cost raised accordingly.

Dragonsongs and Instruments increased in scope from "own unit" to 6"-12" range. Costs increased accordingly. (This allows for more unit synergy, where Exodite units will support one another, making the whole greater than the sum of its parts and encouraging different song/instrument builds.) The idea here is an "orchestra" of intertwining special rules, meaning a multi-charge from several units would be increasingly devastating (as well as resilient morale-wise) based on the number of dragonsingers involved.

Base range of the Prelude of Fate increased from 6" to 12".

The Dissonance Harmony has been reworked to distance it a bit from the Eldar Farseer's Runes of Warding. It now forces re-rolls of successful Psychic Tests by Psykers within 12" of the Spiritseer.

The Refrain Harmony has been reworked to distance it a bit from the Eldar Farseer's Spirit Stones. It is now possible for the Spiritsinger to cast all of their powers each turn, but only as long as they succeed in casting their Melodies, and at increasing difficulty. (This plays well with the Chorus Harmony, making it a bit of a gamble to use as it causes automatic failure if you are out of range, killing your chances of using Refrain to cast more.)

Added a new special character, Mei'nly Kirum-we, the Drakesinger. She is an upgrade character who enhances a unit of Dragon Knights quite well, and becomes more cost effective the more Dragon Knights you include in her unit.

Changed Swarm Arrows from Heavy 6 to Assault 6.

Drakes and Great Drakes now count as having offensive grenades.

Carnosaur Strength increased from 6 to 8. They just weren't deadly enough!

Sailbacks & Firemouths overhauled. BS fixed to 3 (it was 0 - an oversight). Firemouths clarified to have Poisoned (3+) RENDING weapons in combat. Corrosive Venom & Firemouth Corrosive Venom altered to be Assault 1 (from Heavy 1). (This allows them to at least partially keep pace with the speedier elements of the army, staying in range of Dragonsingers and keeping mobile.) Their cost has been raised slightly to compensate.

Added the Furious Charge rule to the effects granted by the Spear of Kurnous.

Added the option to take a Knight Suit as a 0-1 Heavy Support choice.

Moved the Great Drake from Heavy Support to Fast Attack to help balance the Force Organisation lists.

 


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