Topic: Solitaire [did they ever have rules?]

[vanatos]

So any specifics about them? how strong are they?

Has there been any rules on them? or have they always been vague super-strong eldar only elaborated in fluff?

It seems a Solitaire matched and beat the greatest Slaanesh Daemon in a dance for 6 days non-stop, of course dancing isn't exactly martial prowess but they come off as pretty strong stuff.

Also has GW ever released any artwork on how they look?

[Space Merlyn]

There were rules for the Solitaire in the 2nd edition Eldar Codex, including artwork (page 29) . It had an impressive statline and a few special rules including being fear-causing and immune to psychology. I didn't have a copy of the separate Harlequins rules for 3rd edition - others on this forum could fill you in on that..

[Draza]

Has there been any rules on them? or have they always been vague super-strong eldar only elaborated in fluff?

Solitares were usuable in a Citadel journal list. I've faced on before and they really are just as powerful as the fluff suggests. For example, here is a typical Solitare set up:

*Between 6-12 attacks on the charge. Charge range is a max of 24" if your lucky.
*Either strength 3 power weapon or "wound on 2+". Rolling a 6 to wound with either weapon (Kiss or Riveblades) had the potential to instant kill the target.
*Enemy takes leadership on 3D6
*Can only hit the Solitare in combat on a 6
*No leadership value

He was quite literally a monster.

It seems a Solitaire matched and beat the greatest Slaanesh Daemon in a dance for 6 days non-stop, of course dancing isn't exactly martial prowess but they come off as pretty strong stuff

.
The Masque is destined to dance for eternity. It's an amazing effort that a Solitare could out-step a Daemon who is cursed to dance for eternity.

There has been a model produced for the Solitare, although very old

[Rasmus]

Rules for the Solitaire popped up in the First Ever Harlequin list back in RT. This was then continued in 2ned Ed Eldar Codex, and in the CJ-list. The troll-list had a bleak version of it, and hte EO-codex restored it. Now, it is ... gone, as with so many other Harlequin things.

[flipONE]

It seems a Solitaire matched and beat the greatest Slaanesh Daemon in a dance for 6 days non-stop, of course dancing isn't exactly martial prowess but they come off as pretty strong stuff.

Dancing for 6 days straight DEFINITELY proves martial prowess, ESPECIALLY within the Harlequin Society. If you've ever done any form of Kung Fu, or traditional martial arts (none of this Americanized money-karate) you'd realize that the skill it takes to master a form is as equal as mastering a style of dance. Also if consider the martial art of Capoeria which was disguised as a dance at first, but used with deadly force by the Slaves who trained in it.

[MagicJuggler]

In addition to all the nasty melee abilities, the Solitare could also pick up a Callidus Assassin-equivalent flamer weapon, or a fusion pistol, assorted grenade types including gas and tanglefoot grenades, or a personal teleporter. It was awesome.

[flipONE]

Solitares were usuable in a Citadel journal list. I've faced on before and they really are just as powerful as the fluff suggests. For example, here is a typical Solitare set up:

*Between 6-12 attacks on the charge. Charge range is a max of 24" if your lucky.
*Either strength 3 power weapon or "wound on 2+". Rolling a 6 to wound with either weapon (Kiss or Riveblades) had the potential to instant kill the target.
*Enemy takes leadership on 3D6
*Can only hit the Solitare in combat on a 6
*No leadership value

He was quite literally a monster.

Wasn't another problem with that Citadel Journal list was that Powerblades were Wargear and the Kiss was a weapon, technically giving the Solitaire 6-12, Wound on a 2+, Ignore Saves? Thats why I considered him a monster.

[Rasmus]

Wasn't another problem with that Citadel Journal list was that Powerblades were Wargear and the Kiss was a weapon, technically giving the Solitaire 6-12, Wound on a 2+, Ignore Saves? Thats why I considered him a monster.

  NO, that was only something some cheesy players thought up, and was never supported in the actual rules. This is even in the stickied threads.

[flipONE]

I don't see how its considered cheese. As wargear is separate from a special weapon. The entry for Powerblades itself said that they can be used in conjunction with another weapon.

To your understanding Master-Crafted weapons for SMurfs is cheesy. As it shouldn't be used in conjunction with your weapon.

I did all the math hammer, in order for any of the Harlequin Army List (from Citadel Journal) to work, the Powerblades should be regarded as war gear and be allowed to be used in conjunction with the Harlequin's Kiss. Otherwise, that list is barely viable short of the power of the dice.

[Rasmus]

Well, it was never an option, just something some people badly wanted to have around (wound on 2+, no saves, very tempting) and it will never be an option for hte Solitaire either. He was dangerouls without it.

[flipONE]

Ummm yes, it was an option. Solitaires can be given ANY option in the Harlequin Armory. And no the Solitaire isn't dangerous without it.

why? Heres two configurations of Solitaires:

Solitaire a: Harlequins Kiss, CC weap (or pistol). 101pts
Solitaire b: Powerblades, CCweap (or pistol). 106pts
Solitaire c: Powerblades + HK. 115pts.

lets say max attacks. we're charging from 6". 12 attacks, 3+ to hit. about 7 go through. Control will be against MEQs.
Now Solitaire A, is going to wound 83% of the time. Causing about 6 wounds. MEQ will save 66% of those, meaning 2 die.
Solitaire B, is going to wound, 33% of the time. Causing 2 to die (ignore saves). Same result as Solitaire A. 2 die.

For 90pts base, plus how much the wargear is. A solitaire vs. MEQ's is pointless as even with 12 attacks on the charge it won't cause any damage. Especially because I didn't spend any points on the D-field the chances that he'll survive one combat is close to nil. ESPECIALLY since Solitaires can't join units (other wise I wouldn't say anything, because the extra hits from a squad would nullify his weaknesses).

Solitaire C, 12 attacks, hits on a 3+, wounds 83% of the time. Is going to cause 7 hits, and 6 wounds which can't be saved. For 125+ points (still should buy the upgrades). This is closer to the damage potential I would expect from the Dancer of Slaanesh. Let alone this is from the closest charge range.
Any farther away and Solitaires A/B both suffer tremendously.

And please let me reiterate, not only was this an option. But, the entry on Powerblades specifically states that they can be used in conjunction with other weapons. This wasn't cheese, its how Gav Thorpe intended it.

[Rasmus]

If it was as it was intended then why was it (over and over) refuted and corrected?
No, powerblades cannot be combined with harlequin's Kiss. It never could, and it was never supposed to be. This discussion is old, really old, and has been done to death. It is even in the sticky, and it is still valid. They cannot be combined, and if you want to play that way with your friends that is you own lookout, but be warned that they can cite sources for it being illegal in the game just as valid as the list you want to use. No, no good, not combine, does not compute. Now please, no more of this. It is an old discussion, it is over and done with, and you are merely beating an old dead beardy horse.

[Cpl_Hicks]

Could you link the source?

[Rasmus]

The only sources for Harlequins in 3rd ed were Citadel Journal 39, 44 and 50. These are not available online.

[Cpl_Hicks]

I'm guess what i'm looking for is a faq somewhere that says they don't stack at any point in the time line.

I'll go look it up 

[Thaldin]

Let me take a look at my old stuff.  I have the Harlie info in the Compendium (or was it the Compliation?) but I also had GW send me the CJ articles a couple years ago and have them stored away in a manilla envelope at home. 

[Meneroth]

damn, i had the rules somewhere.....They used to be online(as of a year or two ago) but i cant remember where i found them. i do remember a few things though, one being the the HK cannot be combined with any sort of save ignoring weapon.

[Dinendal]

Really easy to find and I also give my word on that one. It is written black on white that the powerblades isn't working at the same time as the kiss, you had to choose...

oh and about efficiency, you forgot something about the solitaire.

The neurodisruptor...

this amphetamine parrot was nasty. I think in my 1.5k list I was able to get 7 of these...2 on mimes, 1 in each troupe. One on the seer, the great harly and solitaire. Nasty.

[faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)]

For those of you still debating the kiss/blades thing, here is the wording from the codex itself:

Note 3: Some Harlequin characters may be armed with two
special close combat weapons, for example a Harlequins’ Kiss
and a power weapon. You may only use the special rules for one
close combat weapon (in this example either wound on a 2+ or
ignore armour saves) though you still gain +1 attack for a second
close combat weapon.

If you want the official GW ruling as well, check out here:

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=21702

It only took me about 3 min of diggin to find this, not all that hard to have done...

Now a question to the mods - I have noticed that GW has removed what used to be free copies of the harley dex, and I, being the smart lad that I am( or knowing that my internet sucks and so I couldn't rely on it to view the dex) have a electronic copy on my computer. Now it used to be free, but is no longer available, am I allowed to make it available? If so, then I would be more than happy to do so... just tell me how

[Rasmus]

No, it would be illegal for you to distrubute any copy you might have. GW still owns it and unless you have their written permission then you cannot spread them.