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Offline returnofirv

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starting Eldar and 40k
« on: July 29, 2016, 06:23:46 AM »
Hi - im looking to start 40K and am tempted by eldar. I need help on an initial 750 or 1000pts list based on the start collecting box. Ideally I am looking for something that is:
* forgiving to play (but also fun to play)
* shooty
* mainly vehicles (inc. bikes)

Hopefully that is not too specific! I was also thinking of going for either a yellow or red colourscheme - whether that pushes me towards a particular eldar faction. Any advice would be great.
thanks!!!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 06:37:25 AM by returnofirv »

Offline volatilegaz

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 07:05:35 AM »
Welcome to the forum!
Welcome to 40k!
Welcome to the Eldar!

Eldar are one of the most powerful codexes out there right now, and their power plus speed makes them a fairly forgiving army to play. They typically have low toughness and low model counts, which means you can loose a lot of your army in a single bad turn, but overall probably the right army for you.
Mainly vehicles and liking a red colour scheme puts you firmly in the Saim Hann Craftworld bracket -who focus on vehicles & jetbikes.

The starter box you mention is 300 - 350pts worth of stuff, depending on how you kit it out so it's a quite a jump to get to a 1,000pt army.
Here is an example 1,000pt list, but I'd strongly recommend you work you way through a few games at 500pt and 750pt rather than jumping straight into buying a full 1,000k army.


Farseer -Jetbike, Singing spear, Spirit Stones of Anath'lan (135pts)

3 x Warlocks -Jetbikes, Singing Spears (165pts)

4 x Windriders -Scatter lasers (108)

3 x Windriders -Scatter Lasers (81)

3 x Windriders -Shuriken Cannons (81)

3 x Vypers -Brightlances (150)

Fire Prism -Holo Fields (140)

Fire Prism -Holo Fields (140)

1,000pts on the nose and will give you lots of guns to shoot, 5 vehicles and 14 jetbikes to play with, plus a good amount of psychic power (which Eldar are pretty good at)

You can play these models either as a normal combined arms detachment, or as a windrider host, which gives you a bit more flexibility too.
It converts into a 750 list fairly easily by removing a fire prism, 2 vypers and either a jetbike or some of the upgrades
The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.

Offline returnofirv

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 09:06:50 AM »
thanks - that's really helpful. I think i might also go for yellow for a challenge.

so for 500pts?

Farseer -Jetbike, Singing spear, Spirit Stones of Anath'lan (135pts)
Fire Prism -Holo Fields (140)
3 x Windriders -Scatter Lasers (81)
3 x Windriders -Shuriken Cannons (81)

63 pts left to spend





Offline volatilegaz

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2016, 09:11:00 AM »
You are very welcome.

I'd go for something like the below for my 50 and 750 pt lists:

750 list:
Farseer -Jetbike, Singing Spear (120)

3 x Warlocsk -Jetbikes & Singing Spears (165)

4 x Windriders -Scatter lasers (108)

3 x Windriders -Scatter lasers (81)

3 x Windriders -Shuriken Cannons (81)

1 x Vyper -Brightlance (50)

1 x Fire Prism -Holo Field (140)


500 list:
Farseer -Jetbike (115)

5 x Windriders -Scatter lasers (135)

4 x Windriders -Shuriken Cannons (108)

1 x Fire Prism -Holo Field (140)


Windriders are possibly the best Eldar unit out there -certainly the best unit within your vehicles/bikes theme. They are extremely fast, quite durable, and can outshoot many heavy weapon units. They should really cost a few more points than they do. It makes sense to go big on Windriders early, and then add a few different unit types as you start to play bigger games and get used to the rules.
The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.

Offline returnofirv

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2016, 09:15:58 AM »
thanks again - really helpful!!

 :)

Offline haunt

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 04:24:49 PM »
Welcome to the Forum. It looks like you got some great suggestions that you received and there many sources here.
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Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2016, 02:46:45 PM »
You are very welcome.

I'd go for something like the below for my 50 and 750 pt lists:

750 list:
Farseer -Jetbike, Singing Spear (120)

3 x Warlocsk -Jetbikes & Singing Spears (165)

4 x Windriders -Scatter lasers (108)

3 x Windriders -Scatter lasers (81)

3 x Windriders -Shuriken Cannons (81)

1 x Vyper -Brightlance (50)

1 x Fire Prism -Holo Field (140)


500 list:
Farseer -Jetbike (115)

5 x Windriders -Scatter lasers (135)

4 x Windriders -Shuriken Cannons (108)

1 x Fire Prism -Holo Field (140)


Windriders are possibly the best Eldar unit out there -certainly the best unit within your vehicles/bikes theme. They are extremely fast, quite durable, and can outshoot many heavy weapon units. They should really cost a few more points than they do. It makes sense to go big on Windriders early, and then add a few different unit types as you start to play bigger games and get used to the rules.

Volatilegaz has some excellent suggetions here. The only thing I'll mention is that, as eldar are so good right now, and as scatter laser jetbikes are some of our most powerful options, you might find some of your opponents don't particularly enjoy games against lists that feature a lot of them unless they're looking for something relatively competitive.

Consider running the jetbikes with basic shuriken catapults or with a limited number of heavy weapons if you run into such complaints.

Offline returnofirv

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #7 on: August 3, 2016, 12:04:07 PM »
Hi - i doubt i will win many games even with an overly competitive list! :-)

I will only be playing one person infrequently for fun - so no pressure on either of us.

ps in terms of tactics, should i add the farseer to one of the windrunners and just zip about keeping out of CC range shooting stuff up? Also, keeping the fire prism at the back as a mobile gun platform? and what do i do with the warlocks? Are they mainly there for the psyker phase?

« Last Edit: August 3, 2016, 04:04:22 PM by returnofirv »

Offline volatilegaz

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #8 on: August 4, 2016, 07:20:47 AM »
ps in terms of tactics, should i add the farseer to one of the windrunners and just zip about keeping out of CC range shooting stuff up? Also, keeping the fire prism at the back as a mobile gun platform? and what do i do with the warlocks? Are they mainly there for the psyker phase?

Until you get the Warlocks, yes the Farseer would ride with one of the Windriders squads and use his psychic powers to buff them.
Once you get the warlocks, the farseer can ride with them instead. Their signing spears are great short range tank hunting weapons and the invulnerable save, when combined with a jetbike's armour save and increased toughness, makes the unit quite durable. Th psychic powers of the warlocks are OK but situational. Often you will be using them as batteries to add extra warp charges for your farseer to use.
The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.

Offline returnofirv

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #9 on: August 4, 2016, 08:31:10 AM »
thanks!!

Offline magenb

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #10 on: August 5, 2016, 12:51:36 AM »
Hi - im looking to start 40K and am tempted by eldar. I need help on an initial 750 or 1000pts list based on the start collecting box. Ideally I am looking for something that is:
* forgiving to play (but also fun to play)
* shooty
* mainly vehicles (inc. bikes)

Hopefully that is not too specific! I was also thinking of going for either a yellow or red colourscheme - whether that pushes me towards a particular eldar faction. Any advice would be great.
thanks!!!

Eldar are mostly an army of specialists, this means you can make them as unforgiving or as straight forward as you like :)

This makes them one of the most fun armies to play over the years as swapping over a single unit can change how you play. The fact we have the best looking models alos doesn't hurt :)

Unlike the Space Marin factions, the Eldar ones are non-existant in the current game system. Even if they did have some difference, you don't have to stick with their colour scheme, so paint them up however you like. If you get stuck for idea's check out the project section of the forums or this sticky (Your Eldar Army.), there is alot of great work to get some idea's from.

The new starter sets really are a good way to kick an Eldar army off and are cheaper than buying them seperately, I'd even consider buying two of them if I was start out again.


Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #11 on: August 5, 2016, 01:25:52 PM »
Hi - im looking to start 40K and am tempted by eldar. I need help on an initial 750 or 1000pts list based on the start collecting box. Ideally I am looking for something that is:
* forgiving to play (but also fun to play)
* shooty
* mainly vehicles (inc. bikes)

Hopefully that is not too specific! I was also thinking of going for either a yellow or red colourscheme - whether that pushes me towards a particular eldar faction. Any advice would be great.
thanks!!!

Eldar are mostly an army of specialists, this means you can make them as unforgiving or as straight forward as you like :)

This makes them one of the most fun armies to play over the years as swapping over a single unit can change how you play. The fact we have the best looking models alos doesn't hurt :)

Unlike the Space Marin factions, the Eldar ones are non-existant in the current game system. Even if they did have some difference, you don't have to stick with their colour scheme, so paint them up however you like. If you get stuck for idea's check out the project section of the forums or this sticky (Your Eldar Army.), there is alot of great work to get some idea's from.

The new starter sets really are a good way to kick an Eldar army off and are cheaper than buying them seperately, I'd even consider buying two of them if I was start out again.

I'm going to politely disagree with you on a few points, magenb. :)

While we certainly used to be a specialist army, I'm not sure that's entirely true.  Many of our previously specialized units now actually fulfill a variety of roles.  Dragons can go after MCs, vehicles, superheavies, and terminators with equal ease.  Spiders can hunt light vehicles, MCs, or infantry.  Scorpions are mostly anti-infantry, but the scorpion's claw makes them half decent monster and vehicle hunters. Spears are mostly MC hunters, but they'll do some damage to terminators, heavy infantry, vehicles, etc. Reapers murder bikes and marines, but they'll deal with MCs and vehicles quite well with starshot missiles.  Jetbikers with heavy weapons can take on anything short of heavy armor. Hawks are good AT (assuming you don't use the recent, not yet official FAQ for them) and good harassment as well as being highly mobile.  Farseers can be anything from force multipliers to psychic artillery depending on how you load them out.

As much as I like the idea of "specialists," most of our army is probably pretty solidly in the "generalist" category these days.

Regarding space marine factions, you can absolutely use a given chapter tactic without painting your marines the "appropriate" color scheme.  My Blood Angels successors use White Scar tactics because I feel it fits their highly mobile, jump-heavy fighting style better. :)

Regarding eldar factions, I'd argue they are absolutely existent within the current rules if one is inclined to pursue them.  Want to play Ulthwe? Take a storm guardian core detachment with a seer council.  Saim-Hann? Take jetbikes and skimmers. Biel-Tan?  Aspect hosts and avenger shrines are your friends.  Even some of the more obscure craftworlds are pretty well represented by the Pale Court detachment from Forgeworld. For instance, Iybraesil is well represented by taking a pale court that uses banshees in place of guardians. 

We may not have "craftworld tactics," but it's certainly possible to play an existing faction fluffily if you are so inclined. :)

Absolutley agree about the starter sets. Especially considering that the OP seems to want to run something in the vein of Saim-Hann's playstyle.

Offline Thor0298

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2016, 02:22:15 AM »
I'm also starting and looking for something similar to this list as I'm coming from fantasy I wanted something unavailable there. Basically guns and vehicles. Is the basic tactics here to shoot just out of assault range. Then grab objectives at the end of the game?


Offline volatilegaz

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2016, 03:42:40 AM »
with the exception of the warlock unit, you want to be keeping all your units out of assault.
That's pretty easy to do because they are all rocking heavy weapons with good range and/or can move out of assault range in the assault phase after shooting.

Basically this pours a murderously large amount of firepower at your enemy from highly mobile platforms that can re-deploy wherever you need them on the board at a moments notice (including objectives)
The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.

Offline returnofirv

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2016, 04:06:28 AM »
wow - i see what you mean about Eldar being good. I played my friend (Marines) last night and won 2 out of 3 games - the only one that i lost was where i played the death from the skies list - drop podded on my at turn two and destroyed me in combat by the end of the next turn. 600pts next with more bikes!!!

Offline volatilegaz

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2016, 04:42:56 AM »
Great stuff!

If you feel like it, post a battle report or two -You will probably get some really good tactical advice from the great and the good on here.

Plus it's always nice to read about Eldar beating up some Smurfs.
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Offline returnofirv

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2016, 05:33:27 AM »
thanks - tactics (such as they were) were moving out of cover, buffing one unit with the primaris power and the other with the saving throw power, concentrating the fire from the 2 units of wind runners on one unit, often wiping it out, then running back into cover. The Prism pretty much stayed where it was and just shot at any vehicles. Both games i won were objectives, which i won just by making sure there was nothing left to claim them.

My plan next is to add a warlock to add +1 for magic and put him in a unit for cover. Then as many jetbikes as I can get into 750pts. I was also thinking of (as advised above) on vypers, but the minis as costly vis-a-vis 3 windrunners, so not sure.

Offline live4hisglory

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2016, 01:42:53 PM »
For a better "bang for your buck" I feel like you could make a decent list with 2 starter boxes and dropping 2 of the warlocks to put in the second fire prism.

I'm looking at a list like this:

CAD 750pts (748)
HQ
Farseer - Jetbike, Singing Spear, Spirit Stone(135)
Warlock Conclave - 1 x Warlock on Jetbike(50)
Troops
3 x Windriders - 3 x Scatter Laser(81)
3 x Windriders - 3 x Scatter Laser(81)
3 x Windriders - 3 x Scatter Laser(81)
Fast Attack
1 x Vyper - Bright Lance, TL Shuriken Catapault(50)
Heavy Support
1 x Fire Prism  - Shuriken Cannon(135)
1 x Fire Prism - Shuriken Cannon(135)

Offline returnofirv

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2016, 04:08:30 PM »
thanks!

Offline magenb

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Re: starting Eldar and 40k
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2016, 05:57:05 PM »
My plan next is to add a warlock to add +1 for magic and put him in a unit for cover. Then as many jetbikes as I can get into 750pts. I was also thinking of (as advised above) on vypers, but the minis as costly vis-a-vis 3 windrunners, so not sure.

Vypers can be a little tricky now since the Windriders have scatlasers, its pointless putting one on the Vyper. Additionally if you only take one, its effectiveness is going to be very hit and miss. Since you are playing friendly matches just subsomething in to count as a vyper before dropping $$ on it.

Two Shuriken cannons, can work, but you are putting yourself into Bolter range. Those bolters can take down a vyper rather quickly, but you do get alot of shots.

Eldar Missile launchers are a nice option here, it gives you the range to stay out of small arms fire and hit with a good bunch.

Bright lance is OK, but it is a single shot and only really useful if you are facing armour greeater than AV12.

StarCannons, nice option if you are facing 2+ armour saves.


In my experience War Walkers have been a better heavy weapons platform, but there is a lot of very good options in the Heavy Support area, so if you are looking to expand specifically in the Fast Attack slot then I would suggest you take a look at Warp Spiders.

 


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