News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.  (Read 880 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bigtakezo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Country: us
  • The Eye in the Triangle
  • Armies: Eldar, Black Templar
1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« on: June 19, 2013, 10:27:22 PM »

Ok, so. I've been stalking these forums for a while, and have been collecting Eldar for years, but haven't actually played a full game since sometime around 2008. I'm really excited about the new Codex, and I'm trying to conjure up a 1500pt list to get back into the game. I think it's almost there, but I'd like to try and figure out exactly what I need before spending too much cheddar on new models. It's roughly 1400pts now, and any advice on how to round out the list to an even 1500 would be greatly appreciated.

Here's what I have so far:

Autarch:
Jetbike, Shard of Anaris - 125

Spiritseer - 70

Shining Spears x6
Exarch, Starlance, Hit & Run - 185

Guardian Jetbikes x6
2 shuricannons - 122

Wraithguard x5
D-Scythes - 210
in a
Waveserpent
Scatter Lasers, Shuricannon, Holo-Fields - 145

Warp Spiders x10
Exarch, Spin. Rifle, Fast Shot - 225

Crimson Hunter
Exarch - 180

Warwalkers x2
Scatter Lasers and Starcannons - 140


Total - 1402


The general idea is that the Autarch, as warlord, rides with the spears to form a hard-hitting close combat unit, and to help out with reserves rolls between the hunter / walkers / spiders. The Spiritseer takes runes of battle and rides with the Wraiths, whose job will be to clear and hold an objective. Jetbikes will likely stick close to the Serpent until late in the game, peppering as they go. Spiders may or may not deep strike, depending on the circumstances, but would ideally stay near the spears, softening up units for a charge or seeking out light armor. Crimson Hunter, obviously, is there for anti-air / hard targets. Warwalkers outflank. The primary strategy would be to deny a flank and concentrate fire, eliminating units systematically. It's meant to be an all-comers list, though there are a disproportionate number of marine players at my LGS. Go figure.

I'm not sure where to go with the last 100 or so points. I feel like the list is a bit light on scoring units, although I would hope that secondary objectives could mitigate that. I'm also not quite confident on the Autarch's kit; I want him to be able to hit hard in close combat and be ultimately useful. The shard is expensive, but I like the idea of the unit being fearless and the Autarch being able to handle a challenge. I also thought about giving ghostwalk matrices to the walkers, but I'm not positive that it would be worth it. I should also note that the list is meant to be mostly maneuverable, and I refuse to field guardian defenders solely on principle.

Some other models I have at my disposal:
Dire Avengers,
Striking Scorpions,
Fire Prism,
Wraithlord with starcannon and ghostglaive (I'm extremely fond of the paint job on this {I hand-painted an Indonesian Barong mask on the head}, and would love to find a viable way to field it).

Any thoughts on how to tie everything together? Or just critiques in general? Some direction would be hugely appreciated..

Many thanks, and keep it real.
stay brutal.

Offline Halfpast_Yellow

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2567
  • ##Don't run! We are your friends!##
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2013, 02:19:52 AM »
Putting a Banshee Mask on the Autarch for x points is strongly recommended, this ensures you always go before your opponent when challenging, and helps the squad in general too. Additionally, he has to swap out a weapon to take the Shard, so buy a cheap chainsword. That sets you back 8 points.

Then I'd probably just drop 3 Warpspiders and field that Wraithlord.

[mod]Points value removed to comply with forum rules - Iris.[/mod]
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 06:38:53 AM by Irisado »

Offline Bigtakezo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Country: us
  • The Eye in the Triangle
  • Armies: Eldar, Black Templar
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 06:08:15 PM »
I see your point about the Banshee mask, that seems like a worthwhile inclusion. As far as the Scorpion chainsword, I was under the impression that the Autarch could swap his shuriken pistol for the shard. Is that not the case?

As much as I would love to see the Wraithlord on the table, I worry about him plodding along unsupported while nearly the rest of the army is mounted.
Dropping three spiders would allow room for a Prism with Holo-Fields, and I feel like that would be a more appropriate choice in this list. Then kitting the Autarch with a jetbike, mask, shard, and fusion gun would bring it to an even 1500. Thoughts?
And thank you!
stay brutal.

Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2013, 06:22:18 PM »
A couple of points:

1) Autarch - Definitely put a Banshee mask on him. Since you have extra points, take a fusion gun as well. Pay the extra points for a cheap melee weapon so you can keep the pistol for the extra attack with the shard.

2) I highly suggest at least 3 scoring units at games of 1500+ points. You will probably need to drop the walkers to fit in another.

Offline Bigtakezo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Country: us
  • The Eye in the Triangle
  • Armies: Eldar, Black Templar
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 07:46:35 PM »
Thanks for the comments, both of you. It's very appreciated.
This is the list as I have it now:

Autarch
jetbike, shard, banshee mask, fusion gun
140

Shining Spears x6
exarch, star lance, hit & run
185

Guardian Jetbikes x6
2 canons
122

Spiritseer
70

Wraithguard x5
D-scythes
210

Waveserpent
Scatter, shuriken cannon, holo-fields
145

Warp Spiders x7
exarch, spin. rifle, fast shot
168

Crimson Hunter
exarch
180

Warwalkers x2
x2 scatter / starcannon combo
140

Fire Prism
holo-fields
140


1500 on the nose.


@Partninja, regarding your notes, I understand the risk of having so few troop choices and it's one of my main concerns. I thought about what would be a good additional troop choice as a replacement for the walkers, and sort of ran into a dilemma. My first instinct would be to field another waveserpent with avengers, but finding that many free points would require a significant rethink of the list I believe, though it would certainly be my first edition in an expansion to 2000pts. The only other option I see, as I'm strongly disinclined to field guardians, would be another windrider squadron, which would nicely fill the points void left by the walkers. However, I feel that two units of bikes would lean a bit to hard towards a Saim Hann theme, which I would like to avoid. I also feel that it would take a just a bit too much offensive punch out of the army, and I'm hesitant to buy more bikes just yet for that reason. Any thoughts on this?

As far as the Autarch, I am missing that additional attack, but I can't see any upgrades that I feel comfortable dropping in favor of the chainsword. I'm hoping that the fusion gun and hit&run mitigates the lost attack.

I thought about dropping the exarch on the crimson hunter, but since it's the army's primary AA/AT, I want it to hit reliably when it arrives.   

I feel like the list has a decent balance of versatile destructive power and target saturation for the points level, but as I haven't played in a number of years, this is mostly guesswork. I'd like to give it a go in a few games and see how it fares before making any additional purchases.

Thanks for taking the time to look it over. Thoughts are always welcomed and appreciated.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 07:48:41 PM by bigtakezo »
stay brutal.

Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2013, 09:18:12 PM »
I don't want to make too many more suggestions, as it would be changing around units you might WANT to take in favor of possible better options. I would like to make a few points.

1) Are you taking a Crimson Hunter because you want to? I certainly wouldn't blame you as it is quite effective and a cool model. I do this all the time myself. However, Spiders are quite efficient at AA/AT due to the number of shots and strength bonus against armor (albeit, only effective up to AV12). You would need a full squad though, which could be done if adjustments were made. Dropping the Hunter could boost the Spiders, and afford you points towards another troop.

2) I've never been impressed with smaller war walker squadrons. We have an Eldar player who has ALWAYS fielded 2 full squadrons using scatter lasers, even now in the new codex. With cover saves and what not, he has been finding the possible extra total shots much more useful if not always more effective (against MEQs anyway). Again, unless this is a unit you want to field, dropping the walkers could bolster the spiders and put points towards a 3rd scoring unit. Alternatively, I personally field two Fire Prisms quite often and find the versatility more useful for the same points swap for the walkers.

At 1500 points, I don't think you should be too worried about too many flyers and AV14. The spiders and serpent can handle flyers (and other light armors). You also have the spears who can hunt armor/MCs. The Prism and Autarch's fusion gun can help with AV14. So you have a good amount of AA/AT right there. What these units can't do, is score objevtives. I see the walkers as a weaker point, and the Hunter as an overpriced redundancy (for this points level). Without knowing your meta, your list as a whole is pretty good though and has quite a few options for you to use in a game.

Offline Bigtakezo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Country: us
  • The Eye in the Triangle
  • Armies: Eldar, Black Templar
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 05:55:05 PM »
The suggestions are always welcome, and will always be considered, regardless of whether or not they are implemented.

I see your point about the hunter and the walkers. I like them both, but I'm not married to either of them. What I do want to field, however, is the autarch, and I had figured that since he's already included, it would be wise to capitalise upon his reserves manipulation, and those two units are the only two in the list that would definitely start off the table. Do you think the autarch is still a decent choice if you're not using his reserves rules? I haven't bought the actual hunter model yet though, so I'm definitely open to leaving it behind.

Dropping both the walkers and the hunter would open up room for a unit of 9 avengers in a serpent, and also to fill out the spider squad. Having the extra troop unit is reassuring, and an additional serpent is always nice in this edition. Adding the extra spiders also alleviates some concerns I had about the fragility of that squad in particular. I like the idea and I think I'll give it a shot. My only concern is that I feel as though I'd be leaving behind a decent amount of firepower. Do you think the list seems destructive enough as a whole, sans the walkers and hunter, and with the addition of the avengers / serpent and extra spiders?

As a side note, thanks for taking personal taste into account. That's something that's important to me and often undervalued in list building.

Also, slightly off topic, but I noticed in someone else's list on this forum that they had switched out the autarch's haywire grenades for a remnant of glory instead of buying an additional weapon. Is there any word on the legality of this?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 05:57:40 PM by bigtakezo »
stay brutal.

Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 09:31:35 PM »
The suggestions are always welcome, and will always be considered, regardless of whether or not they are implemented.

I see your point about the hunter and the walkers. I like them both, but I'm not married to either of them. What I do want to field, however, is the autarch, and I had figured that since he's already included, it would be wise to capitalise upon his reserves manipulation, and those two units are the only two in the list that would definitely start off the table. Do you think the autarch is still a decent choice if you're not using his reserves rules? I haven't bought the actual hunter model yet though, so I'm definitely open to leaving it behind.

Dropping both the walkers and the hunter would open up room for a unit of 9 avengers in a serpent, and also to fill out the spider squad. Having the extra troop unit is reassuring, and an additional serpent is always nice in this edition. Adding the extra spiders also alleviates some concerns I had about the fragility of that squad in particular. I like the idea and I think I'll give it a shot. My only concern is that I feel as though I'd be leaving behind a decent amount of firepower. Do you think the list seems destructive enough as a whole, sans the walkers and hunter, and with the addition of the avengers / serpent and extra spiders?

As a side note, thanks for taking personal taste into account. That's something that's important to me and often undervalued in list building.

Also, slightly off topic, but I noticed in someone else's list on this forum that they had switched out the autarch's haywire grenades for a remnant of glory instead of buying an additional weapon. Is there any word on the legality of this?

Avengers are quite good support on their own with the new bladestorm. So the loss of the walkers against infantry is not in vein at all. Also, A serpent with the scatter laser+shuri-cannon+shield combo puts out a similar amount of high strength shots as two walkers with the combo you had. It would be a very even trade off in my opinion. Of course, you will need to play test this. Your original plan might be better off. I just like to suggest alternatives :)

The Autarch can still be quite useful. You could even remove the bike and put him with the Avengers, or a warp jump generator to go with the spiders. It will add some good punch either way. I would suggest experimenting with other HQ choices too, but an AUtarch is still good for list even without reserves.

As far as the weapon swap, I can't say. Hopefully it is FAQ'd soon.

Offline Rakshasa72

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 121
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 01:38:51 AM »
I may be missing something but, why not just swap out his Shuriken Pistol for the Remnant?  You get 2 more weapon choices from the list and, your probably going to pick up another CC and Ranged weapon anyway.  So it doesn't seem to me you loose out on anything.  Besides haywire grenades might come in useful.

The Autarch I was looking at fielding had a Warp Jump Generator, Banshee Mask, Shard of Anaris, Power Weapon and, Fusion gun.

Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 07:40:54 AM »
I may be missing something but, why not just swap out his Shuriken Pistol for the Remnant?  You get 2 more weapon choices from the list and, your probably going to pick up another CC and Ranged weapon anyway.  So it doesn't seem to me you loose out on anything.  Besides haywire grenades might come in useful.

The Autarch I was looking at fielding had a Warp Jump Generator, Banshee Mask, Shard of Anaris, Power Weapon and, Fusion gun.

Extra attack for two close combat weapons.

Offline Bigtakezo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Country: us
  • The Eye in the Triangle
  • Armies: Eldar, Black Templar
Re: 1500 Mechanized list... is missing something.
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 02:08:40 PM »
@Partninja, now that you point that out, I realize that between the avengers and their transport, there is quite a bit of anti-infantry fire there. And I image that having the third scoring unit will end up being important. I guess what I was most concerned about was the loss of the the lances on the hunter, but as you've mentioned, there are other things in the list that should be able to manage. And since leaving out the hunter actually saves me money, I think I'll give the list a go with the avengers and serpent and see how it handles. I think it's a good solution.

Not to start a conversation on HQ/Autarch, as I've noticed there are already existing threads for that, but if I were to fit the autarch with the spiders, I would prefer to give him a reaper launcher and keep the unit out of CC as much as possible, but that's my preference. For this particular list I'd like to keep him CC-oriented, and I'm very attracted to the idea of making the shining spears squad fearless via the shard. Though there's always room for experimentation. This is the first list I've built that doesn't include a farseer, so it already is a bit of an experiment for me.

Again, thanks for the advice. All good suggestions.

I may be missing something but, why not just swap out his Shuriken Pistol for the Remnant? 
As it stands, the shard is replacing the pistol already. I was just wondering whether there was a way to keep the extra attack without buying a generic CC weapon.





« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 02:10:35 PM by bigtakezo »
stay brutal.

 


Powered by EzPortal