Topic: So what do you define as "Cheesy"

[Hive Fleet Dread Q'thulu]

what do you guys think is this cheesy moving a tactical squad around a whirlwind so my lictor can't strike in and assualt/destroy it thus leaving me open to more shots from the vehicle. and at the same time the player had almost everything else hiding in another corner protected from outflanking by one of those space wolf powers.
i do find hiding in a corner cheesy when the other army has no way of getting there with no real numbers left to fight with but that i can deal with but not when i can't come in on the board where i want

[Dunedain]

Thats not cheesey, it's good tactics. thats a major part of miniature wargaming.

Setting things up so his whirlwind would be safe until you fought your way through to it is not cheesey, nor is it foul play. It is perfectly legal, and a wise tactic to employ.

without tactics, 40k would be a boring game.

[Hive Fleet Dread Q'thulu]

well yeah i wasn't saying it was i was asking if anyone found it to be cheese however the terrain was absolutely cheesed up he had on of the biggest buildings in the shop with his devs set on top with plasma weapons and everything else was behind that while i got like three trees and a stone barricade which i couldn't use for cover because of the height of the building

[Calus Drakin]

Read through pages 88 - 93 about the rules and suggestions for setting up terrain and choosing table sides. Giving your opponent the ok to set up terrain to his liking AND giving him choice of deployment zone is just asking to have the odds stacked against them.

I've never actually thought about whether or not tactics could be "Cheesy". I always just considered them either good tactics or bad tactics. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually call a specific tactic cheese, usually it's just one specific unit ( or a couple ), and on the rare occaision the entire army when someone who has firmly convinced himself of his own superiority gets his rear handed to him.

[Ends_Mouth]

Cheese is a Myth. If people can't deal with something, they haven't thought things through. I don't think i have fought something i'd call Beardy or 'cheesey'. And if i did HOOPLA. You wanna be an Angel, you gotta fight a devil.

If cheese really were an issue, i should have cried a river over not being able to kill Mr. Grimnar. And Asurmen made a mess of my warriors, and my Hive Tyrant couldn't hurt him, that's just gotta be cheese there

Seriously, it's deal with it, or don't. Let's go play a game.

[Archaon]

I think the saying goes: "'Cheese!' is the warcry of the unprepared." 

[Dunedain]

battlecry, not warcry.

[Lt_PliskinAJ]

To be honest I really haven't come across any cheese. Sure there are few times where I had a hell of a time trying to beat someone but the more I realize what happened it was more of my selection of gear just wouldn't cut it for that type of army.

[scotatheist]

Morons who scream cheese need a good slap, I am frankly sick of them. I am sick of that stupid phrase, it means nothing.

Cheese translates as ' you are not letting me beat you' Wah, Wah, Wah.

FCUK OFF.

[BuddhaN8]

Q: What do I define as "cheesy"?
A: Anything containing an higher than normal amount of cheese.

Q: Does this term apply to miniature wargaming in any credible or validated sense?
A: No, its miniature wargaming.

Q: What do I define cries of "cheesy" as?
A: An immature response to situations beyond the capacity of an individual to deal with, either due to a lack of tactical acumen or having taken a martyr's stand based on arbitrary principals to not use X or Y to counter Z.

That is all.

[In_Theory]

I try not to use the term 'cheese' though I may make a mention of "yea his list was a bit cheesey, but it was a good game..." in conversation.
A list that is an obvious exploitation or what others may call "taking advantage of" a particularly powerful unit or rule to the exclusion of all others (such as obliterator spam lists) is what may make me say cheese, doesn't mean I'm going to cry and refuse to play. Just because a list is a bit silly in terms of friendly gaming doesn't mean it's unfair or illegal.
It's perfectly legal to field a nidzilla list with monstrous creatures out the wazoo... it could even make for an interesting game. But I think I might comment on the list's exclusion of staple Tyranid units that should and would normally be part of the army...

Meh, I don't really care about the list being used- who am I to tell somehow else how to play their perfectly legal army?
But sometimes a "cheesey" list can also make for a game that isn't fun... being destroyed in 1-2 turns to me doesn't make for a fun game.

[moc065]

"Cheese" --  Is the Battle Cry of the un-prepared.

Cheers

[Chaplain Swordwind]

Wow, quoted (or paraphrased) twice in one day.  Perhaps I should have been nominated for "Most Notorious Poster".    j/k

[Rems]

i would call a twin lash and oblit spam list 'cheesy', or at least not in the spirit of the game, which is what i feel a good definition of 'cheese' is.

[The Reborn]

For all of you that say "Cheesy" doesn't exist, or that it is the battle cry of the unprepared...shame on you.  It does exist, and the purveyors of cheese are the ones usually denying its existence the loudest!
I define cheese as doing something not in the spirit of the game....tilting the odds your way outside of the rules or cheating.  There is a post just below this one, where the poster asks for your opinions on re-posing figures to make them less targettable.  To me, THAT is cheesy.

Taking a tough list that remains legal, that is fair.  Every list is beatable, and playing so many games of Apocalypse has redefined my feelings about what is fair and what is not, what is beatable and what is not.  Cheesy is doing something outside the boundaries of normal play to tip the balance your way.  We all know players like this, the kind who will pick-up their dice and claim extra hits or wounds before they can properly be ascertained by all involved.  The kind that deliberately mis-use or mis-read rules to favour themselves.

I think for me, it has been a long, long time since i have levelled the Cheese tag at a player because he had a tough list....and even then, it was usually when i saw a veteran placing a game-winning collection of models on the table, AFTER seeing what his newb opponent had......and we've all seen that happen too, right?

For me, cheese is more akin to cheat these days.

[moc065]

If you read that post below this one, you would have seen that I also told that guy that re-posing to re-define LOS is "Illegal"... its not Cheese, its Cheeting and Illegal, and there is a difference.

Cheese and Cheeting are two very different things... I do not condone Cheeting EVER... but I don't mind if a guy takes any list that is legal within his codex. Even Dual Lash and Oblit lists don't bother me.. Runes of Warding often shuts the Lash down, and the Obits are not that tough, so they die to some ranged fire or an assault... Oh, and the Lash does not effect vehicles, so rhino rush the barstitch.

Cheers

[Dunedain]

i would call a twin lash and oblit spam list 'cheesy', or at least not in the spirit of the game, which is what i feel a good definition of 'cheese' is.

twin lash and oblit spam is tough, but not unbeatable. What is truly not in the spirit of the game is saying your n opponent's list is cheesey or unfair.

[Chaplain Swordwind]

For all of you that say "Cheesy" doesn't exist, or that it is the battle cry of the unprepared...shame on you.  It does exist, and the purveyors of cheese are the ones usually denying its existence the loudest!

So you're attacking my integrity?  Just because I feel that "Cheese" is a word uttered by people who whine because they can't win, that means I'm guilty of using unfair methods of beating that player?  SERIOUSLY?

I define cheese as doing something not in the spirit of the game....tilting the odds your way outside of the rules or cheating.  There is a post just below this one, where the poster asks for your opinions on re-posing figures to make them less targettable.  To me, THAT is cheesy.

Taking a tough list that remains legal, that is fair.  Every list is beatable, and playing so many games of Apocalypse has redefined my feelings about what is fair and what is not, what is beatable and what is not.  Cheesy is doing something outside the boundaries of normal play to tip the balance your way.  We all know players like this, the kind who will pick-up their dice and claim extra hits or wounds before they can properly be ascertained by all involved.  The kind that deliberately mis-use or mis-read rules to favour themselves.

For me, cheese is more akin to cheat these days.

Those things you described, as moc has already indicated, are CHEATING.  There's a big difference between cheating and "cheese".

[The Reborn]

Chaplain Swordwind.....serio usly, take a chill pill.

If I was attacking YOU, I would be mentioning you by name.  Since I did not mention you specifically, nor anyone else, you ought to calm down a bit.  One example I used in my post mentioned the over the top list taken by a Vet against a newb.  Which was clearly cheesy....a nasty unsavoury thing to do in my opinion.  And unnecessary.

Cheating and Cheesy are pretty close at times, and the border between the two gets blurred by people who are good at it.

For the record, Chaplain Swordwind is not, has never been, or will ever be, Cheesy.

No offence meant.   -VH

[moc065]

I actually like when a guy brings a hard core list vs me... its a challenge that makes me a better player in the long run..

Oh, and I am a Vet that plays themed lists for the most part, although I do go the Hard Core way from time to time; especially when playing in certain events.... (is that cheesy)..

PS, I dare you to bring a fun list to a 'Ard Boyz event... even abusing lists get hammered in there...

Cheers.