Topic: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?

[Teh_Primarch]

Well, simple question, i play them, i know most of their fluff and i also know that their geneseed is the most stable (best), so why do people hate them? Why do they consider them the "little brothers" of the astartes? i know why u guys call them vanilla marines, its cuz they can do everything and they dont specialize in one thing.
so, enough rambling, list the reasons why you might dislike the Ultramarines/Smurfs and/or their Primarch. Anyone who likes the Ultramarines, please state you're reasons. I'd love to hear why ultramarine players such as myself play this wonderful chapter.

[rightfire]

The people that hate ultramarines probably also hate marines (most likely eldar players), don't listen to them.

Stay on course, and be a true marine.

[Kjata]

not true, I like the marine army but I hate the Ultramarines because

1. they are what GW uses to make money
2. At my local store at least 5 people have em everytime i go in
3. they have 5 specialcharacters/units, which i believe is the most of every army

[Shade, Bankai King]

not true, I like the marine army but I hate the Ultramarines because

1. they are what GW uses to make money
2. At my local store at least 5 people have em everytime i go in
3. they have 5 specialcharacters/units, which i believe is the most of every army

I don't play ultras or marines at least not yet(Am getting into black templar) but the  blodd angels have more than 5 and  i think dark angels do to.The first one you can't really blame them they are a buisness.The 2nd one is a good reason not to like or play them but mostly play them.

[::ËternaĺŇovice::]

The people that hate ultramarines probably also hate marines (most likely eldar players), don't listen to them.

...Was the "most Eldar players" comment really needed?...I mean if you know alot of Eldar players that don't like Space Marines, well then that's nothing you can fix, but don't go generalizing that most Eldar players dislike Space Marines...

As for me, I don't mind Ultramarines, nor do I dislike Smurfs in general, but I think that most people dislike them because they're way to overused. Here are the top reasons I've heard that people have stated on why they don't like Smurfs.

• Everybody Uses Them: This is probably the biggest peeve, you can't be a 40k player without facing a Space Marine army...If you walk into a GW store, there's bunchs of Space Marine players, you go to a gaming club, there's a Space Marine player. It just eventually gets lame playing them over and over again. Obviously, you can play against every army alot just to balance it out, but there is forever going to be hordes of Space Marine players out there, and you're gonna get tired of it.
• GW Loves them Best: Don't say I'm just saying this, you know it's true. Everybody hates the ones that get pampered and treated oh-so-wonderfully. The poster boys of GW get alot of people pissed off, when every thrid army Codex is something to do with Space Marines.
• GW Pushes Noobs to Play Them: This one is hard to argue. I'm definately not saying noobs play Space Marines, far from it. There are plenty of kick-ass Marine players out there, hardcore vets that are both good players and players you want to play against. But when GW goes out of their way to introduce the little 10 year old that walked into the store looking at IG to the world of 7-foot tall superhumans, that's just playing dirty. After awhile your store is full of screaming kicking 10 year olds saying that their "unbeatable" Marines are gonna whoop your "poopie Dark Eldar", that's when they cross the line, and you have to beat them to the floor. After of course, they start crying.

There are some very cool Space Marines players out there, as well as cool Space Marine armies, it's just that, Space Marines get abused alot. I used to love Space Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Black Templar, whatever, I liked them alot. But when they started to rise above the rest, as an army that looked down upon the rest, that was the day that I lost all faith in the once glorious army of Space Marines.The days of noble, righteous Marine fighting for the Emperor and idolized by all is over. Now, they just another army, and one that many people don't quite like.

So there you have it...some reasons myself, and other people dislike Space Marines. As for Ultramarines, they're the most common. And they're not called Vanilla Marines because they have nothing special. It's because their the standard, most-common-thing-you-see-in-the-Codex army. And some might hate them cause, although the get no special advantages or cool personal models (besides those Tyranid Hunters), they get everything else. Close Combat Termies? Ultramarines have got em. Bikes? Ultramarines have got em. Vindacators? Ultramarines have got em. This kind of pertains to the first point, but instead of everybody uses them, it's the get what everybody wants to use. They don't have the most Special Characters, but all of them have been redone and improved more times than you can count on your one hand, made better and better and better.

Just my two-cents, some are IMHO, some are what others have to say. I'm just here to save them some typing time.

[Homun]

Ultramarines, dark angels, black templar and blood angels are the most known and played marine armies...I just think alot of people dislike them because its nothing new.

I agree with Eternal; space marines are the poster boys for GW but with a reason. Thier friggin popular. Also gw does push noobities to play them.

Though I am a space marine player I do dispise other space marine armies simply because they don't bother creating thier own chapter using the codex. Meh am just a picky general with to much firepower lol. 6307 points so far...

[Nuclearfeet]

I play Space Marines, but I can't stand Ultramarines.  Mainly because they are GW's poster child along with BT now 

And I personally don't find their fluff very interesting.  It's rather bland, IMO. 

[Lomendil]

I like Ultramarines, both fluff and in-game. I've always liked their 1st company colour scheme, especially when painted onto Power-Armoured Veterans. (There's actually very little in 40k that I don't like. In fact the only thing I hate are the Last Chancers just for being so corny and Hollywood.) It does irk me a little that Marines in general are so common, but I find that different people will play them in very different ways so it's not too samey.

[Kjata]

• Everybody Uses Them: This is probably the biggest peeve, you can't be a 40k player without facing a Space Marine army...If you walk into a GW store, there's bunchs of Space Marine players, you go to a gaming club, there's a Space Marine player. It just eventually gets lame playing them over and over again. Obviously, you can play against every army alot just to balance it out, but there is forever going to be hordes of Space Marine players out there, and you're gonna get tired of it.
• GW Loves them Best: Don't say I'm just saying this, you know it's true. Everybody hates the ones that get pampered and treated oh-so-wonderfully. The poster boys of GW get alot of people pissed off, when every thrid army Codex is something to do with Space Marines.
• GW Pushes Noobs to Play Them: This one is hard to argue. I'm definately not saying noobs play Space Marines, far from it. There are plenty of kick-ass Marine players out there, hardcore vets that are both good players and players you want to play against. But when GW goes out of their way to introduce the little 10 year old that walked into the store looking at IG to the world of 7-foot tall superhumans, that's just playing dirty. After awhile your store is full of screaming kicking 10 year olds saying that their "unbeatable" Marines are gonna whoop your "poopie Dark Eldar", that's when they cross the line, and you have to beat them to the floor. After of course, they start crying.

that is exactly what I meant with almost everything I said

[Irandrura]

Ultramarines are like Space Marines in general - there's nothing inherently wrong with them, they just get pushed too much. The Ultramarines fluff is decent (though there are easily better Marine chapters out there), the models are good, and the rules work fine. Players are the problem.

[Stu35]

Personally i dislike Space Marines because i'm sick of facing them every other battle, and Ultramarines inparticular just because it seems that they have the least interesting fluff of The Black Templars, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Blood Angels who everybody seems to play with (or has played with at some point - myself included, i used to have Space Wolves).

their geneseed is the most stable (best)

That kind of attitude doesn't help either... it's a matter of opinion, I prefer to see it as, their geneseed is the most stable (boring)...  I personally view the Space Wolves geneseed as being best...


So yeah, I mostly am not a fan because of their lack of interesting fluff (from my opinion) - and yet they get so much weight thrown into them while more intersting Races - or even Chapters from the same Race, get ignored.

[Irandrura]

When push comes to shove though, Ultramarine gene-seed isn't the best. Blood Angel gene-seed is frequently stated to be superior to all others, except for the side effects (murderous instincts and homicidal rages), and Salamander gene-seed is legendarily stable, even more so than the Ultramarines.

[faithlessmonkeigh]

come on guys- lets not mince words here- i hate ultra marines.
and so do many of you
i hate them because they are the best example of everything that is wrong with 40k - they are the lazy mans choice in most cases...  they have everything great - and are played only my newbies- i have little respect for marine players as it is - cept for space wolves and bloodangels, but ultramarines push it too far.

I hate the colour blue now, anyone notice how gulliman is the most boring primarch?, i dislike that they have such great characters, i dislike their fluff, i dislike that vanilla armies like this encourage newbies to be tactically inept; i mean walking forward and rolling higher than 2 on a dice is not a tactic- and suddenly any army that doesn't rely on their save are cheese? - go eat expletives

fififififaithless
anyone get a nervous twitch when they see blue?

[Heatseek3r]

do they?(well, except for faithless)

I have no quarrel with them, and the power of the ultramarines seems to be a bit overrated. I have plenty of ways do deal with them no matter what army I play(DE, USF, Iron Hands, Tau and IG).

Other than this. I quite like the ultramarines. Blue is my favourite colour. Other than this, the honour guard rocks!

[Draza]

Everybody Uses Them: This is probably the biggest peeve, you can't be a 40k player without facing a Space Marine army...If you walk into a GW store, there's bunchs of Space Marine players, you go to a gaming club, there's a Space Marine player. It just eventually gets lame playing them over and over again. Obviously, you can play against every army alot just to balance it out, but there is forever going to be hordes of Space Marine players out there, and you're gonna get tired of it.
GW Loves them Best: Don't say I'm just saying this, you know it's true. Everybody hates the ones that get pampered and treated oh-so-wonderfully. The poster boys of GW get alot of people pissed off, when every thrid army Codex is something to do with Space Marines.
GW Pushes Noobs to Play Them: This one is hard to argue. I'm definately not saying noobs play Space Marines, far from it. There are plenty of kick-ass Marine players out there, hardcore vets that are both good players and players you want to play against. But when GW goes out of their way to introduce the little 10 year old that walked into the store looking at IG to the world of 7-foot tall superhumans, that's just playing dirty. After awhile your store is full of screaming kicking 10 year olds saying that their "unbeatable" Marines are gonna whoop your "poopie Dark Eldar", that's when they cross the line, and you have to beat them to the floor. After of course, they start crying.

That covers the majority of it. Basically I don't hate Space Marines, but I do dislike them..a lot. I like their fluff, which has grown on me (thanks to Wikipedia), but as for game-play, I don't like them. I find that they are a generic newbie army in many ways.

*ATSKNF although fluffy, makes games incredible annoying. It removes a large part of the game. All of a sudden failing leadership tests is no problem. You cause them to fall back. They just don't care and still use heavy weapons. Catch them in a SA, they don't care. Morale is a big part of the game, I feel this rule removes it. Imagine just having marine games you'd forget about re-grouping rules.

*The amount of space they take up on the shelf. This falls in with the poster boy image. I look at the space devoted to Marines and then the space devoted to every other army and it digusts me. No wonder they sell so well. The Commander made me mad. Just a singular model that takes up the space of severa; Wraithlord boxes. I don't care how many sprews that model has, I just think it's taking up too much space


Whether Space Marines are easy to beat, thats got a lot to do with the player using the army. Basically I think that quote and my own words practically cover my feelings for Marines

[SpetZoo]

Ok lets get started here:

1. they are what GW uses to make money
2. At my local store at least 5 people have em everytime i go in
3. they have 5 specialcharacters/units, which i believe is the most of every army

1: GW uses Warhammer to make money 
2: In your store... yes maybe. In my store... no. At my last tournament....faced 2 out of five(different chapter)
3: Orks have 6.

• Everybody Uses Them: This is probably the biggest peeve, you can't be a 40k player without facing a Space Marine army...If you walk into a GW store, there's bunchs of Space Marine players, you go to a gaming club, there's a Space Marine player. It just eventually gets lame playing them over and over again. Obviously, you can play against every army alot just to balance it out, but there is forever going to be hordes of Space Marine players out there, and you're gonna get tired of it.
• GW Loves them Best: Don't say I'm just saying this, you know it's true. Everybody hates the ones that get pampered and treated oh-so-wonderfully. The poster boys of GW get alot of people pissed off, when every thrid army Codex is something to do with Space Marines.
• GW Pushes Noobs to Play Them: This one is hard to argue. I'm definately not saying noobs play Space Marines, far from it. There are plenty of kick-ass Marine players out there, hardcore vets that are both good players and players you want to play against. But when GW goes out of their way to introduce the little 10 year old that walked into the store looking at IG to the world of 7-foot tall superhumans, that's just playing dirty. After awhile your store is full of screaming kicking 10 year olds saying that their "unbeatable" Marines are gonna whoop your "poopie Dark Eldar", that's when they cross the line, and you have to beat them to the floor. After of course, they start crying.

Everybody Uses Them: As a wrote above... not in my store.
GW Loves them Best: Maybe it's just me but I don't think every single employee at GW loves SM, but I do think that Adrian Wood likes Orks.
GW Pushes Noobs to Play Them: If they did, maybe it's because it's an easy army to play/learn to play with. And later on you can make it more advanced. And I met many noobs saying "your army sucks, my Eldar/Dark eldar/Necrons/Imperial guards/Chaos/Tau/Sisters/Marines will crush you."

come on guys- lets not mince words here- i hate ultra marines.
and so do many of you
i hate them because they are the best example of everything that is wrong with 40k - they are the lazy mans choice in most cases...  they have everything great - and are played only my newbies- i have little respect for marine players as it is - cept for space wolves and bloodangels, but ultramarines push it too far.

I hate the colour blue now, anyone notice how gulliman is the most boring primarch?, i dislike that they have such great characters, i dislike their fluff, i dislike that vanilla armies like this encourage newbies to be tactically inept; i mean walking forward and rolling higher than 2 on a dice is not a tactic- and suddenly any army that doesn't rely on their save are cheese? - go eat expletives

If you have trouble beating them, thats your problem... I don't.

*ATSKNF although fluffy, makes games incredible annoying. It removes a large part of the game. All of a sudden failing leadership tests is no problem. You cause them to fall back. They just don't care and still use heavy weapons. Catch them in a SA, they don't care. Morale is a big part of the game, I feel this rule removes it. Imagine just having marine games you'd forget about re-grouping rules.

*The amount of space they take up on the shelf. This falls in with the poster boy image. I look at the space devoted to Marines and then the space devoted to every other army and it digusts me. No wonder they sell so well. The Commander made me mad. Just a singular model that takes up the space of severa; Wraithlord boxes. I don't care how many sprews that model has, I just think it's taking up too much space

1: You want some cheese to that whine. Almost every army has some special rule regarding morale.

2: The amount of space they take up on the shelf. - Maybe because the demand for SM models is greater than the demands for wraithlords? 






I'll end this post by saying; Everyone could write at least a paper on whats wrong with every single army in 40k. Every army can be criticised of being unfair.

[Irandrura]

2: The amount of space they take up on the shelf. - Maybe because the demand for SM models is greater than the demands for wraithlords? 

GW Loves them Best:

It's a self-perpetuating cycle. The sooner GW realises it has to get out of it, the better.

[Lazarus]

I like the Ultramarines just fine. The only thing I don't like is the fact that 82% of all my opponents are MEQ's....this however, is not the Ultramarines fault is is? 


Lazarus.

[Evil_Toast]

I dislike all marines for most of whats been said above ( common , posterboy etc ) . But i think my feelings stem from the players I've met .Not many ( still not many games under belt ) but all seemed to have this " rules for me and you are two seperate things , i WILL always have the advantage ! " ! Pretty certain the more I meet ( and that will be loads ) , the more my outlook will change , or maybe not ..... He He He

[wiseguy42]

i gotta tell you all i love marines and the fact that they are so numerous...as a tournament player it makes it a lot easier to build an army when you know that 80% of the armies at the tourney will be some sort of space marine...and this is a pretty common feeling from a lot of guys i know...please GW keep promoting marines so i can continue to cut them down in great number...that said i do really enjoy when a player creates their own chapter, even if army ends up a little dull on the table...my $0.02