News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: 2000 point mechdar list, revised post.  (Read 5143 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eidolon

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: 00
2000 point mechdar list, revised post.
« on: August 19, 2009, 04:34:47 PM »
Having had some experience against a variety of people and armies i can honestly say the dragons are the only thing I am in any way dissapointed with. Im not sure why either. First game they killed two executioners, second they killed a squad of plague marines and two rhinos, third they took out a terminator squad and finished off two squads of marines.

Batrep of the first game is here http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=188598.0
It was the only game that was actually close. Second game had a terrible mission night fight all game ::). So thats the only game that is worth reading.

I am pondering dropping the falcon, replacing it with a bright lance serpent, and just making it a straight up squad of 10 dragons. This lets me roast 5 man termy squads, MCs, and tank squads with ease. I feel 6 is a number that can get the job done, but with bad rolling nothing will happen. The 10 man squad also has some chance of surviving the return fire, given that if played right they roast the biggest nastiest thing nearby.

The avengers are very durable, given that the dragons and council is in your face turn 1.  Game 1 i lost 10 avengers, but both squads were still on the table at the end, and one serpent got blown up. Game two i lost no avengers, and they killed a squad of berzerkers. Game three i lost both squads, but it was kill points and i was very lazy in how i used them. They tend to sit back, and only join into the battle when i have no chance of losing them. Like i said in kill point missions i am much more aggressive with them, but in objective they just kinda sit there and bladestorm one squad every other turn. War walkers were extremely useful, as was the council.

Eldrad-210

Seer council-245
8 warlocks. 2 with destructor, 1 with enhance, 2 with embolden,

Wave serpent-130
Spirit stones, twin linked eldar missile launchers

Yriel-155

6 fire dragons-123
exarch with tank hunter

10 dire avengers-152
Exarch with dual catapults and blade storm

Wave serpent-145
Spirit stones, twin linked bright lances.

10 dire avengers-152
Exarch with dual catapults and blade storm

Wave serpent-145
Spirit stones, twin linked bright lances.

3 war walkers-180
2 scatter lasers each.

3 war walkers-180
2 scatter lasers each.

falcon-180
missile launcher, holo fields, spirit stones.

Any more advice would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 11:42:55 PM by eidolon »

Offline angel of death 007

  • Dreadbash Warboss | KoN Veteran
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2392
  • Country: us
Re: 2000 points eldar for tournament
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 05:19:08 AM »
My advice if you don't want to spend too much money and add jetbikes is to

make one war walker squad armed with SC instead of SL

frees up 60 pts... 

Take 5 jetbikes one with SC  (bring this unit in reserve) 

Warwalker squad doesn't lose that much effectiveness  and you gain a scoring unit...   but leave it in reserve as it will be the only infantry type target otherwise...   I imagine your Warwalkers are outflank with your list. 

That way it only changes the guns on your warwalkers and shouldn't cost you anything...

Offline Lazarus

  • Infinity Circuit - The Voice of Reason
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10258
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Space Wolves & Imperial Guard
Re: 2000 points eldar for tournament
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 06:45:29 AM »
Quote
8 warlocks. 2 with destructor, 1 with enhance, 1 with embolden, 3 with singing spears.


I always take at least 2 Emboldens in the council. Wound allocation my go bad and you might lose the only LD re-roll you have in there...

If you do add jetbikes to the list you'll need to reserve them or hide them if possible. Anti infantry guns like HB's will currently pick your walkers as targets (which is better for you).


Carefull using blade storm. More often than not in this style list you are better off not even getting out of your tank. Staying alive to score is far more important. I saw many people laugh / question my use of 10 defenders w/ shuriken cannon but it's a cheap unit whose production is unimportant if they don't get out....but their large enough to help if the situation warrants it. (nearly 1/2 the price) - you could even add a warlock in this unit for versatility and AT work as well...

"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline Eidolon

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: 00
Re: 2000 points eldar for tournament
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 02:28:23 PM »
My advice if you don't want to spend too much money and add jetbikes is to

make one war walker squad armed with SC instead of SL

frees up 60 pts... 

Take 5 jetbikes one with SC  (bring this unit in reserve) 

Warwalker squad doesn't lose that much effectiveness  and you gain a scoring unit...   but leave it in reserve as it will be the only infantry type target otherwise...   I imagine your Warwalkers are outflank with your list. 

That way it only changes the guns on your warwalkers and shouldn't cost you anything...

This is exactly what i did. However the war walkers proceeded to do absolutely nothing while the bikes got shot up. The laser walkers however were worth their weight in gold, and i figured the bikes are useless so ill bump the second walker squad back to lasers.

Quote
8 warlocks. 2 with destructor, 1 with enhance, 1 with embolden, 3 with singing spears.


I always take at least 2 Emboldens in the council. Wound allocation my go bad and you might lose the only LD re-roll you have in there...

If you do add jetbikes to the list you'll need to reserve them or hide them if possible. Anti infantry guns like HB's will currently pick your walkers as targets (which is better for you).


Carefull using blade storm. More often than not in this style list you are better off not even getting out of your tank. Staying alive to score is far more important. I saw many people laugh / question my use of 10 defenders w/ shuriken cannon but it's a cheap unit whose production is unimportant if they don't get out....but their large enough to help if the situation warrants it. (nearly 1/2 the price) - you could even add a warlock in this unit for versatility and AT work as well...



I know to be careful using it. I dont own any guardians, though the storm guardian flamer rush did look appealing. Often times i end up dropping them out outside of threat range, and lighting up the one thing that is there, if they only hop out once a game the opponent will feel it. This also lets any squads that get downed put up a fight before they are taken out.

As for jetbikes i did reserve them and hide them. However they got bumrushed by bikers and didnt last too long.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 02:41:09 PM by eidolon »

Offline Lazarus

  • Infinity Circuit - The Voice of Reason
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10258
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Space Wolves & Imperial Guard
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 03:24:19 PM »
Quote
As for jetbikes i did reserve them and hide them. However they got bumrushed by bikers and didnt last too long.

Pretty much my experience with them too in every game....

Lazarus.
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline Eidolon

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: 00
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 03:26:59 PM »
Quote
As for jetbikes i did reserve them and hide them. However they got bumrushed by bikers and didnt last too long.

Pretty much my experience with them too in every game....

Lazarus.

What would you recommend then. I had considered a 5 man avenger squad in reserve, and then hopefully if the falcon survives it can return to pick them up. Or just hide them as well as possible and put them on an objective last turn. I really like the way the list syncs up now, so i am nervous about removing entire units to add the third troop choice.

Offline Lazarus

  • Infinity Circuit - The Voice of Reason
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10258
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Space Wolves & Imperial Guard
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 03:39:10 PM »
The third TROOP choice is not always needed. I never really had scoring issues in my last dozen tournay games or so as long as I didn't try to commit the TROOPS themselves from the tanks.

That's why I'm not a big fan of the Avengers - decently kitted they cost too much for what they do. 150+ points for something you don't really want to use....

I wish the bikes were better....I wish they had access to stuff likie Melta/fusion that is so prevelant in 5th edition. Sure, we can take Dragons but with the whole TROOP only scoring crap I don't seem to be able to fit them them in......


Lazarus.
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline Eidolon

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: 00
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 03:46:01 PM »
Yup, overpriced and with amphetamine parrotty options. I figure if my opponent is retarded he will see the bikes and think "well they arent a threat and ignore them". If he is smart, which he probably will be, then the bikes are screwed. I may throw tank hunter on the dragons just to ensure a dead tank, but thats probably overkill.

Offline Lazarus

  • Infinity Circuit - The Voice of Reason
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10258
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Space Wolves & Imperial Guard
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 03:56:32 PM »
Yeah, tank hunter is likely overkill but I have used it in the past simply because I had nothing else to do with the points....in the past I didn't mind using something like a Vyper...now, those points are divided into unit upgrades/options instead.

Lazarus.
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline Eidolon

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: 00
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 04:00:58 PM »
Yeah, tank hunter is likely overkill but I have used it in the past simply because I had nothing else to do with the points....in the past I didn't mind using something like a Vyper...now, those points are divided into unit upgrades/options instead.

Lazarus.

Ill just use jetbikes instead of a vyper. Harder to kill, and can score. Although a vyper does sound nasty, its a free kill point. R.I.P. victory points. What do you think about dropping the falcon, replacing it with a serpent, and bumping the dragons up to 10 models?

Offline Lazarus

  • Infinity Circuit - The Voice of Reason
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10258
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Space Wolves & Imperial Guard
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 04:20:26 PM »
Keep the Falcon. A heavy skimmer w/ holo stones is much needed for tank shocking/contesting while also surviving the enemy shooting...

Lazarus.
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline angel of death 007

  • Dreadbash Warboss | KoN Veteran
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2392
  • Country: us
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 08:49:21 PM »
10 dragons is just overkill unless you are going to be shooting at regular range and not melta bonus range.  To easily to get an explode result and potentially lose part of your squad.  I have been running a squad of 5 recent though six can be nice.  I don't really see the benefit personally of having 10 as more than likely in my case they just get shot up after they pop their target anyway because your opponent is so focused on taking out what has just popped his expensive armor option (usually a Land raider or LRC) and his termies having to foot it that he dedicates all his infantry firepower or as much as it takes to take out my firedragons.. which works great for me.

Basically the FD have done their job and are cheap and as an added bonus take several anti-infantry squads firepower which would be otherwise directed at something else...  so in that manor it is a benefit in all ways. 

Offline Eidolon

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: 00
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 08:55:40 PM »
So i guess the question is, drop the bikes to add a bright lance to the seer council serpent, and an exarch with tank hunter to the dragons? This increases my anti tank by a lot, and i already have gobs of anti infantry firepower.

Offline angel of death 007

  • Dreadbash Warboss | KoN Veteran
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2392
  • Country: us
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 09:25:21 PM »
has your falcon been surviving after they drop the FD?  has your FD been surviving after the drop?

I would say if your falcon is surviving then add some more guns to it or put a squad of dire avengers in reserve and pick them up though I don't think that you will have enough turns in most games for this to be an effective tactic. 

You could add a EML to your Falcon thus giving you 3 str 8 shots..  as an option though with moving the FD into position it won't be able to fire enough to benefit... and this role works better with a squad of 5 DA inside... use the guns all game and then if needed last minute to contest objective. 

I don't really like FD in a falcon due to both the FD's role and the Falcons role...   the falcon is not really designed as a transport as much as a heavy support and the WS is better equiped for infantry transport.  I know FD's in Falcons was the way to go in 4th but in 5th too much has changed making the WS a better transport option (for fire dragons as a DAVU squad is better in a Falcon for those who actually play DAVU squads) in my opinion basically because it is cheaper and the Falcon really needs to do more than just transport to justify the points. 

Either that or you could try a walker squad with EML's instead of SL.  It adds a variety to your army and with outflank can work for an interestin anti-tank role.   Try it and see how that works... i know it might not compare to the amount of fire the SL's put out but it is a lot of krak missles at an armor target as well.... food for thought.

Offline moc065

  • Infinity Circuit / Necrontyr Lord / KoN Warlord
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8827
  • Country: ca
  • King of the Preemptive Strike
    • klucas.piczo.com
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 09:38:21 PM »
Re-write your list incorperating the info you like and wish to employ... and then I will gladly go through the whole thing with you.

I will not rate the list at present as its not done... but Listen to those above me, and use their info to tweek it, and then we can work from there. My initial thoughts are to complete the council's size (re-configure some powers as well)... no Min/max JB's, they don't work well... Falcon is light, so are the FD's... the rest are small things and playstyle dependant... so go from there.

Nice start though, and let us know what figures you actually have.

Cheers
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 09:40:14 PM by moc065 »
Join POC: Saim-Hann
or Read the Guide to Eldar
or read the Guide to Necrons


And Click here if you like Magic The Gathering

Offline Eidolon

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: 00
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2009, 01:05:59 AM »
Well there it is, final eldar list up. I realized something with the troops. 3 jetbikes are going to work one of two ways.
1-I sneak onto an objective because my opponent wasnt paying attention or couldnt. If his army is so beat up he cant kill three bikes i have already won. And if he doesnt pay attention to them i have already won.
2-He pays attention to them, i give up a free kill point, and wasted 66 points.

I used the points to add a second embolden warlock to the list, add a missile launcher to my falcon, but twin linked missiles on my seer council serpent, and put tank hunter on the dragons. I know its probably wasted points on that last one, but 99% of the time they live for 1 turn outside of the tank, and i want a promise that enemy tank will die.

Offline Lazarus

  • Infinity Circuit - The Voice of Reason
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10258
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Space Wolves & Imperial Guard
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2009, 06:27:29 AM »
Quote
I sneak onto an objective because my opponent wasnt paying attention



Sneaking onto an objective isn't the hard part. The hard part is making the game end when you want it to.....

Lazarus.
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline Eidolon

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: 00
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2009, 12:27:57 PM »
Quote
I sneak onto an objective because my opponent wasnt paying attention



Sneaking onto an objective isn't the hard part. The hard part is making the game end when you want it to.....

Lazarus.

Well there is always that too, and three bikes can and will die to a squad of guardsmen.

Offline Chaplain Swordwind

  • Infinity Circuit | Painboy
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Country: us
  • Faith is my shield, the Wailing Doom is my sword!
    • Click here for generic Math-Hammer tool.
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2009, 01:30:03 AM »
Chaplain Swordwind Army Rating:

Durability: 1.5/2

It goes without saying that the super council is extremely durble, and with all the rest of your fragile units safely tucked away inside thier transports, it will take considerable effort for your opponent to destroy this army.

Flexibility:  1/2

I almost awarded 1.5 points in this category, but I felt that your success with the army is too heavily tied to the super-council.  Thus the phrase "does not rely on any particular unit to win", does not apply, and so the extra 1/2 point was not awarded.  Aditionally, having only two scoring units in a 2000 point army limits your tactical options when it comes to controlling objectives, which further effects your flexibility.

Lethality: 1.5/2

This list will bring the pain, with multiple units capable of engaging and destroying an type of unit you might encounter: MEQ's, Tanks, Monstrous Creatures, etc.  The army packs a significant amount of firepower without neglecting a solid close combat element as well.

Mobility: 1.5/2

Mobility is a significant asset for this army.  The Warwalkers are the only element that cannot move further than 12" per turn, but with the range of their guns and the option to outflank, they do not suffer significantly for this.

Synergy: 1.5/2

This army looks like a cohesive fighting force.  Every element has its primary responsibilities, but there is enough overlap to provide redundancy when it is needed.

Total: 7/10

This army is capable of being competitive.  A strong general could take a list like this and hammer an opponent with it.  The army does not play itself however, nor is it without weaknesses.  Overall I like the list, and I think it could be fun to play with, or against.

C.S.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 08:42:07 AM by Chaplain Swordwind »
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the unprepared.

Join the Swordwind!


My Eldar Project

Chaplain Swordwind is right about, ehm...everything.

Offline Eidolon

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: 00
Re: 2000 points flank rush eldar
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2009, 01:03:31 AM »
Total: 7/10

This army is capable of being competitive.  A strong general could take a list like this and hammer an opponent with it.  The army does not play itself however, nor is it without weaknesses.  Overall I like the list, and I think it could be fun to play with, or against.

C.S.

Sounds to me like a good army, if you know what you are doing and play to its strengths you can beat the tar out of anyone.

Played this list today at a rogue trader. Got third place and went undefeated, 3-0. Played a very close game against a guard guy with 5 leman russes. First time playing against the new guard, they are pretty rough. Then stomped on a chaos guy, though the mission was terrible and not in his favor. Finally did the same to a marine player, though his list was not well put together.



« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 11:40:28 PM by eidolon »

 


Powered by EzPortal