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Author Topic: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]  (Read 6799 times)

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Offline Galef

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Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« on: November 23, 2010, 04:58:50 AM »
I am thinking of running 10 Scourges w/ 4 Splinter cannons.  Standing still they get 24 shots at 36", 42 shots inside 18".  On the move they get 34 shots within 18".

I thought about fielding 2 Blasters & 2 SC's to make them more versatile, but I already have 2 Reaver units w/ Blasters, 2 DL Ravagers & 4 Raiders & 2 Wych units with Haywires, so I didn't think it was necessary.

I also have very little anti-horde shooting in my list, so a unit with Carbines & 4 SC's sounds pretty awesome.  I know Trueborn can do this as well (almost), but the 4+/6++ armour & 12" move without relying on an easy kill point Transport seems a better choice to me.

any thoughts?
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Offline ravenklath

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Re: Scourges could be nasty
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2010, 06:19:27 AM »
In the tourny i was recently in i used them with better then expected results. I DS them in on a gunline Marine list (weird i know) and caused a third of it to run away as i shot at them in two rounds along with my reavers doing their thing. And then i had them defend a downed raider squad against assualty termies and well the termies weren't there after a round of shooting from them and the raider squad. the third round i completely forgot that i had them in reserve but i didn't need them so it was okay.

They have the potential tobe very powerful but i do not think it is necessary to take a 10man squad i used a nine man squad because i needed a points filler(yes i didnt have the models to do everything else i wanted). So i them as a great addition to a support role which i believe we needed last codex.

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Offline 13th guest

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Re: Scourges could be nasty
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2010, 06:40:46 AM »
Did you use them standing still at all? If all your shooting is coming from within 18" then save 40 points and have 4 less shots seems like a good trade (just a unit of 10 with carbines).

Offline ravenklath

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Re: Scourges could be nasty
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 08:05:51 AM »
i did in my game against the blood angels but they then chopped down by the flying land raider

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Offline Galef

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Re: Scourges could be nasty
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2010, 02:11:11 PM »
I thought about not giving them SC's, but in my list I plan on starting them in cover.  Then move them closer only when I know all their carbines will be in range of something.
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Offline Mordan the Heretic

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Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 10:18:04 PM »
Okay this forum is amazing, and the responses even more so. While going through the forums though I had yet to see anything on Scourges, but maybe I missed it (i'm good at missing the sign right in front of me).

So, how do/have/will people use their Scourges? I find them really amazing from the sounds of it. They can do what my Tau and Devastator squads did: snipe. But now they can move even faster then them, having a 12 inch move with Shardcarbines (An impressive weapon in itself.) For every five, you can replace two weapons with some even more amazing weapons (Heat Lance, Dark Lance, Shredder, etc.) The only problems I see with them is that they are an expensive unit when you fully kit them out to the best of their abilities. For example my Scourge Squad will probably consist of ten Scourges (220 points), replacing them with 2 Heat Lances and 2 Dark Lance (274). 274 points is almost a third of a 1000 point army. (As a note I probably wouldnt use that big of a unit in a 1000 point army, just making a point.)

Can I get some thoughts?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 11:17:14 PM by Mr.Peanut »

Offline zealadin

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Re: Scourges
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 10:30:57 PM »
They do seem a pretty cool unit.
Their cost is a bit prohibative, but they can pack a pretty good punch!

Main thing we are seeing holding them back is no models.
I'm guessing WWP armies will probably be interested in them, although it depends entirely on how they stack up compared to reavers.

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 11:22:38 PM »
Whatever you want to give them will work**, so long as you modify their use based on their equipment.  Shredders are finally cheap enough to be useful, dropping four templates on a squad will ruin its day.  Heat Lances are pretty amazing at anti-tank and that's what most armies need.  Either option is short ranged, so have an assault unit nearby to screen them from a counter-assault after they drop their payload.  Haywire blasters, combined with the cost of the Scourges themselves, are probably a bit too pricey for what they do, but they are the safest anti tank/light infantry harassment weapons.  The Scourges can use their mobility to be in range to shoot a tank every turn without having to commit themselves to assault or rapid-fire range, trading off lethality for safety.

**Except upgrading a squad leader or giving him wargear, since Hellions are better at fast moving assaults anyway.  Don't bother with Dark Lances either for the same reason: they're too expensive and other units do dark lances better.
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Offline Fr0

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 02:16:14 AM »
Been giving them quite a bit of thought lately.. I'm not sure on what one I'd take, they are rather configurable!

Kinda depends on the rest of the list, but if you DS or come through a WWP, can get to rear AV to melt tanks with HWB/HL though you could just use Ravagers/Raiders.

I hated them in the last edition because they had DL, so I'd never take DL, and although their armor is good I think Shredders are a bit closer than I'd like them to be.

You can use a bit of range advantage (if you need to range vs dangerous units) when you take four SC - that's a lot of shots! Especially if you lay into a unit, and stay stationary the next turn for more shots.
 
Think I may end up just mixing up the special weapons a bit, 3 SC and a HWB in a unit of 10. I hate to have a less useful weapon in the mix depending on my target, but I'd rather have the options to use them more than one way in a match.

Not super fond of warriors, and although warriors are cheaper I like the idea of being able to move them around and still be able to fire.
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Offline Galef

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 02:25:24 AM »
Blasters are better than DL's for Scourges as they cost the same and Blasters can be shot on the move (for an effective 30" range).

Anti-tank is the realm of Reavers & Trueborn as Reaver are fast with blasters (and can move away from retaliation) and Trueborn can field a MUCH cheaper unit with 4 blaster (even if you field a 10-man unit it's like 100pts cheaper)

However the best loadout for Scougres: 10 dudes, 4 Splinter cannons.  Cheapest, most effective use of Scourges.  There are other units that can have Blasters, Lances, whatever (see above), but Scourges get the most SC's of any squad.  The SC also matches the unit's Shard Carbines better.  It's an expensive unit, but when you factor in the Ghostplate armour, ability to Deep Strike and longer range they become worth it.

Standing still they get 24 shots between 18-36" and a staggering 42 shots within 18".  On the move they get 34 shots within 18".  Don't move them unless you KNOW they will get the Carbines in range or else you only get 16 shots.

If you are lacking anti-tank in your list, Scourges are not good choice.  But if you lack anti-infantry/Monstrous Creature, Scourges are the unit for you!
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Offline archonoftheredhand

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 03:53:08 AM »
I don't agree as anti-tank being the rome of reavers. They are better of by making fly-by attacks and claiming cover saves, instead of making themselves more vulnerable to pop a tank.

With trueborn you're right but they're only 40Pts cheaper when taking a "naked" raider, which they need.

Scourges have the speed and options to deal with armor.

Offline ravenklath

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Re: Scourges could be nasty
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 07:57:58 AM »
the only problem i see with that is you will have to walk them out of cover unless you want take dangerous terrian test.

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Offline Mordan the Heretic

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2010, 11:51:59 AM »
I agree about the Trueborn (I was just looking at them this morning). Get a ten man unit with a Raider to move it into a nice, commanding piece of cover (Centralized building giving them a good cover save and vantage point type thing), and whack whatever comes by, specifically tanks and vehicles. The Scourges I was thinking they could work as Vespids from Tau, antiarmor/heavy infantry with DLs and all that good stuff. But a lot of people here are right, that gets mad expensive. I think I might use them with Blasters or Splinter Cannons and get some Mandrakes to back them up for Assault (which might not work since the Scourges probably will be way ahead of them).

Offline Rhoads

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2010, 12:30:29 PM »
Look at it this way.

If you're taking scourges as an anti tank squad, it's a waste of points since you need to buy 6 additional scourges to get the 4 blaster/dark lance/heat lance shots (132 pts). The fact that they're armed with shardcarbines means that if you're going for tanks, you're wasting 12 S carbine shots to shoot 4 anti'tank shots, and you're using a 260+ pt squad to do it. With those points you could buy 2 ravagers, or spend 30 more and buy 2 razorwing fighters/voidraven bombers.

Now look at them from an anti infantry point of view.

The only squad that can match up to a squad of 10 scourges with 4 S cannons in terms of splinter output is a squad of 20 warriors with 2 S cannons or a squad of 5 trueborn armed with 3 shard carbines and 2 S cannons in a venom with 2 S cannons.

The bottom line: no squad compares to scourges in terms of sheer splinter firepower except for a squad of 20 warriors standing still with 2 S cannons within 12" of the enemy for rapid fire, and the scourges' mobility, better armour and further attack range make them a better choice.


Offline Fr0

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Re: Scourges could be nasty
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2010, 12:42:23 PM »
^ That. They already have a good armor save, and an invulnerable. You'll need to move them according to what your opposition is, equipment-wise, I'm definitely leaning toward 4 SC because that's a world of hurt and has great range so you can toy with things.
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Offline Khain Mor (/kharandhil)

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2010, 12:50:01 PM »
Quote
With those points you could buy 2 ravagers, or spend 30 more and buy 2 razorwing fighters/voidraven bombers.

I always do two things while making a list: fill heavy support and take as many troops as possible, then fast attack, elites or another HQ are next to fill the list.

Adding scourges seems pretty ok, but I wouldn't go for the 4 special weapons, é is just fine with a few scourges. Wasting splinter shots isn't a big deal as you probably have tons of them elsewhere, you don't have enough anti tank, this makes any anti tank weapons very useful.

For now here are the possiblities I see for my scourges:
Numbers between 5-8.

-full carabines, no upgrades, just full anti infantry. reminds me a bit of my eldar Hawks.
-2 special weapons, any kind.
All have their advantages, blasters and heat lances are closely the same.
DLs are also quite good, no moving, but rapid redeploying, as well as staying at logner range, the further away you stay, the safer you are.
Blaster isn't better, because when you get closer, you also expose yourself a lot more to danger. Seeing how we lack DLs in the new codex, taking scourges with 2 DLs doesn't seem that bad at all. I'm thinking about a splinter/DL spam with trueborn and scourges with DLs next to some ravagers and lots of warrior squads, close to the lists we had in the odl days, except trueborn and scourges would provide some DLs we lost.
SC are quite good, though only one more shot, taking 4 SC doesn't seem worth it, seeing how much the entire squad will cost.

upgrading a leader doesn't make any sence in this unit.

BTW, 6 scourge with 2 heat lances or 2 blasters cost exactly the same as a reaver, mobility is close, reaver just have the turboboot and fly by attacks.
Scourges make up for the loss of those things with beter armor and better firepower.
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Offline archonoftheredhand

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #16 on: December 1, 2010, 01:38:28 AM »
@Rhoads: Ravagers are better and cheaper as AT, but there only fit 3 in a list. In every army the HS slot is 1 of the first things that are filled. The thing that scourges have in favour of trueborn is their speed. They don't have to rely on a transport to get where they need.

Also I don't see the need of going for 4 special weapons, 2 or perhaps 3 are usually enough to do their job without overkill and spending too much points. Okay when they fire at AV you're wasting a few poisoned shots, but who cares our list is full of it. 10 SM devastators also 'waste' their 12 regular bolter shots. Also when there is no need to take out some AV for them they can fire their blasters/heat lances against infantry allong with the carbines.

Lastly, the squad with 4 SC's is something I used in the previous codex and trust me, it isn't that great. A major thing that's improved now is that they don't take heavy slot anymore and have better armor but for splinter fire we have much other options, unlike for anti-tank duty IMO.

here I have another option to match your firepower with 2 soring units: 2*5 warriors in venoms with double SC's. ;)

Offline Galef

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #17 on: December 1, 2010, 01:50:12 PM »
here I have another option to match your firepower with 2 soring units: 2*5 warriors in venoms with double SC's. ;)

Except you have to field 10 Warriors to get 1 SC, thus 20 to get 2 SC's.  My earilier point was that Scourges are best with massed Splinter weaponry.   If you want anti-tank Fast Attacks, Reavers cost the same as Scourges & have a better T and better options.

I don't agree as anti-tank being the rome of reavers. They are better of by making fly-by attacks and claiming cover saves, instead of making themselves more vulnerable to pop a tank.

Good luck getting more than 1 fly-by attack in a game.  If you use Reavers to do this, they WILL get charged as it is very rare to be able to fly over units and land well out of charge range of others.  In most cases, you either have to turbo on turn 1 to "aim" them for next turn, or turbo head long into enemy lines.  Even if you use another unit to intercept enemy units (i.e. Wyches) you are spending a least 1 turn setting that up.  A waste of points if you ask me.

I'll take blasters anyday for them.  Remember they are "Eldar" jetbikes, and thus should NEVER be without a cover save when used right.  The also can stay away from the enemy better.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Back on topic, Scourges are MUCH better in this edition not only for being Fast Attack, but due to Splinter weapons being poisoned.  SC's were only str 4 last codex, meaning wounding on 4's vs. most target.  The current SC's suddenly become amazing are Biker sniping & MC killing.

If you give Scourges Blasters or Heat Lances, the Carbines will rarely get used.  Take Trueborn with Blasters.  They are much cheaper.
« Last Edit: December 1, 2010, 01:54:28 PM by Galef »
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Offline Revener

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #18 on: December 1, 2010, 03:03:05 PM »
here I have another option to match your firepower with 2 soring units: 2*5 warriors in venoms with double SC's. ;)

Except you have to field 10 Warriors to get 1 SC, thus 20 to get 2 SC's.  My earilier point was that Scourges are best with massed Splinter weaponry.   If you want anti-tank Fast Attacks, Reavers cost the same as Scourges & have a better T and better options.


I guess he meant Double SC's on the Venoms.
Anyway......

Offline Web Way Walker

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Re: Scourges [how to equip/use them?]
« Reply #19 on: December 1, 2010, 06:05:19 PM »
As for what special weapons to give Scourges, that depends on what your needing to support the rest of your list. However, I do regard it as essential that Scourges do infact take some kind of special weapons.

An equal amount of Hellions (in terms of points) can lay down just about as much splinter fire at the same range as what Scourges armed with Shardcarbines can deliver. And while Scourges may have better armour, the Hellions will have more wounds (since they are cheaper). So IMO Scourges should not leave home without their special weapons.

 


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