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Offline TheOnlySpiral

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #40 on: October 7, 2005, 09:09:08 PM »
We then got attacked by Iraq
Did I blink and miss this? When did Iraq attack you?

Firstly, Bush is not stupid. Look at his college grades, they're pretty high.
High grades...money can buy those.  Intelligent speech...less so.  Just look at all the books of Bush-isms out there.

Also yes, your country men are stuck-up and so stupid things.  And it bugs a lot of people.  You are a brash and loud culture with a high amount of offensive people pre capita.  Not all Americans are annoying and troublesome...but your government certainly is as well as a lot of your common folk.

@downundercadet07:
Many are critical of the soldiers.  Many more of us are far angrier at your government.  The audacity and arrogance of your forign policy is impossible to deny.  I sympathise for the soldiers...but I hope the ones that were gung-ho about going into battle realize the lives they have destroyed. 
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Offline downundercadet07

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #41 on: October 7, 2005, 09:46:39 PM »
I suppose that you blinked for twelve years straight. There were weekly attacks on US warplanes patrolling the UN ordered No Fly Zone. The fact that very, very few of these attacks were successful does not negate the fact that they were hostile actions, with the intent to kill or maim peacekeepers.

Lives they have destroyed?

I doubt many soldiers have remorse over killing baathists or insurgents. The opposition are not particularly nice people. And I would say that you can deny the government acted in an arrogant way, but your right, the audacity was undeniable. Then again, audacity is something that is prized in military actions. As Gen. Patton once said "AUDACITY, AUDACITY, AUDACITY!!!"

But more importantly, I think you missed the point. You don't seem to have any compassion for the soldiers, and you have to conditionalize your sympathy. I don't think that you have really put yourself in our shoes yet. To be fair, I have not put myself in yours.

Offline troup leader

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #42 on: October 7, 2005, 10:07:29 PM »
the US should just take over the world. at least we should have in the early fifties when we were the only one with the A bomb. would could have used our doomsday weapon. now thats supper villian!

Offline downundercadet07

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #43 on: October 7, 2005, 10:47:44 PM »
I don't think that is a really excellent idea.

Offline TheOnlySpiral

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #44 on: October 8, 2005, 01:09:48 AM »
First of all: That was not an attack on the United States.  An attack on US citizens acting as UN peacekeepers.  There is a difference.  Iraq never attacked sovereign US soil, never landed troops on your shore.  Never conquered your people in any way shape or form.
Second: What about the innocents who died? Bombs that didn't land on target, innocent men trying to defend their families.  People caught in the fire fights.  People who died due to lack of food and water because you destroyed their infrastructure? Those are all lives destroyed.  I feel bad for soldiers that are in a hell-hole but that is their job.  They signed up to serve their country, and they understood the risks that would come from armed service.  Those people in Iraq didn't sign up to get shot at, didn't sign up to get a bomb dropped on them, nor did they sign up to starve to death.  That is what I mean by lives destroyed.
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Offline Help Traped In Box

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #45 on: October 8, 2005, 10:47:26 AM »
hell, im american, and even i hate it here!

seriously, im getting out as soon as im 18
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Offline downundercadet07

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #46 on: October 8, 2005, 08:27:04 PM »
So who really destroyed their lives? Was it US Personell or the Regime that provoked the US to attack them? Lets face it-- if Iraq had been run like Bahrain, Kuwait, or Qatar, there would not have been any attack.

So-- let me get this right, let say your an Iraqi AAA gunner. You see an American plane flying overhead. You shoot at it, because those are your orders from the government. In your world this does not constitute an attack upon American forces? And in your world, we should have just kept on taking these attacks in stride because...? The US has only fought one war where the (foriegn) enemy actually had troops on American soil (1812) so does that mean that every war we fought in that we were not invaded was illegal? WWI, WW2, Korea, I could go on. Maybe you are under the somewhat amusing impression that when troops of various countries go to war with UN approval, they are somehow under the command of the UN itself? Not so much.


Just to be sure I didn't misunderstand you: I could attack a US pilot with the intent to kill him, and that does not constitute an attack on US forces because he is in the process of upholding a UN Resolution?

Actually, I didn't mention this, but Iraq did 'invade' the US when they sent a team of commandoes to assassinate the elder President Bush. Perhaps you have some excellent explanation why this does not constitute an attack on the US?

Don't feel bad because there are soldiers in Iraq, that isn't what I am saying. I saying feel bad for them because they are among the most discriminated people in the western world. There are people like you who believe that any one should be able to shoot at them as much as they like without recriminations, people like that guy on the other board that thinks they are all rapists, torturers and murderers, and people like the majority of British citizens who think they are poor, dumb, bloody minded losers. Here is a shocker: your all wrong.

Every time I have to sink to the level of all these prejudiced people to defend myself and my friends, I feel dirty, as if their small-mindedness and blind hatred are somehow infecting me. That is why I prefer not to. I have made my arguments to the critics, and I have no more to say.

Offline Full Metal Geneticist

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #47 on: October 8, 2005, 09:05:13 PM »
Erm... Kuwait is a brutal dictatorship where religious freedom of the the asian section of the population is forbidden to worship and racism is actively practiced. Atleast in Iraq everyone could practice their religion.

Erm... what presidential assasination? Give us links.

A hell of a lot of iraqis have died. And a hell of a lot more iraqis blood is on america's hands. No amount of blame shifting can take it off. Its better to accept and try and fix rather than trying to work a way to worm out of it.


It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method. We risk as a society slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse. I would compare it to witchcraft but honestly that's insulting to witches.

Offline TheOnlySpiral

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #48 on: October 8, 2005, 10:26:58 PM »
I never said the invasion was illegal (even though it was).  They were acting with a UN sanction, for a UN mission.  They were UN peacekeepers.  Not under command of the UN, but with UN blessing.  They were not part of an American operation, but one in which the US was a member.  Iraq was attacking the UN in general.  Not your nation in specific.  Had those pilots been Canadian or Sweedish or English they probably would have gotten just as much fire. 
I feel bad for the ones that are unfairly called rapists and murderers...but I would bet everything I won that there is a good deal of them that are exactly that.  Have you forgotten the Abu Ghraib scandal?  Some of them are good people, some are bad.  it is unfair they are all discriminated against because of the actions they are ordered to take...and the actions their less savory comrades partake in.   We don't think you all are:
Quote
poor, dumb, bloody minded losers.
Just a share.  And we're not wrong.  There are a lot of people in your armed forces who enter because they don't have the smarts for another career.  Or can't afford education or a way to better themselves.  Some people are in there because that is what they love to do, and hold themselves to a code of honor.  But that is not all of them.  Don't defend them with rhetoric.  It dishonors both their good-hearted comrades and the victims of their sins. 

Also: Link me to any information about this assasination attempt.  Please.  I would honestly like to read it. 
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Offline troup leader

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #49 on: October 8, 2005, 11:33:54 PM »
we americans do what we like. if we want to invade somewhere and liberate the oil frome terrorists then so be it.

Offline TheOnlySpiral

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #50 on: October 8, 2005, 11:41:11 PM »
And that is what angers the rest of the world.  And just because you can doesn't mean you should...might does not make right.
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Offline Full Metal Geneticist

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #51 on: October 8, 2005, 11:44:44 PM »
Then there is seriously no reason to demand sympathy from the rest of the world for anything. If you have the idea and attitude of treating the world like whipping boys, eventually someones going to snap and fight back. And Saddam Hussein was far less happy about terrorists and was a lot more strict about them than the USA ever was. Infact all the training camps were under kurdish controlled territory and protected by US air cover from him.


It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method. We risk as a society slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse. I would compare it to witchcraft but honestly that's insulting to witches.

Offline troup leader

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #52 on: October 9, 2005, 12:13:51 AM »
unfortunately might DOES make right. seriously examine our history.

Offline Full Metal Geneticist

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #53 on: October 9, 2005, 12:33:47 AM »
Indeed then you must accept the events of September 11th as a tragic but acceptable loss. After all might does make right...

Oh and that reliance on oil will kill your country. Katrina proved it, oil is like a drug and you need it like a heroin addict needs his fix. Its your biggest weakness and its beginning to show. Already Venezuela is flexing its muscles its only a matter of time before the entire oil producing countries decide to gain some control back.


It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method. We risk as a society slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse. I would compare it to witchcraft but honestly that's insulting to witches.

Offline Instinct

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #54 on: October 9, 2005, 06:05:50 AM »
Is it any wonder the iraqis arnt all happy when some american soldiers do things like this.

http://www.killsometime.com/Video/video.asp?ID=96

can you see the point in this realy?
"only when the last stone has fallen from the last church on the last preist will civilisation ever be perfect!"
"Britain helped america fight in the war in iraq"-this statement is untrue, for it two be a war their needs to be TWO armies fighting each other! so i wouldn't realy call it a war.
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Offline troup leader

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2005, 12:28:34 PM »
you know it is such a shame. the united states is such a great country. I'm a catholic Italian, my best friend is a Russian Jew, my girlfriend is Mexican. i can go on and on to include the Iraqi grocery store owner who turns me on to all kinds of awesome middle eastern olives, but I'm sure you get the point. we are a giant melting pot with a diverse culture. now I'm not saying the US doesn't have its problems with class stratification and other like issues, but you can really make something of yourself here and can have a nice life if you work hard enough for it.
and if any of you who have never been here i invite you to come visit. heck you can even stay with me :). i for one am intrested in other peoples culture and am one of those perpetual students. i would love to travel and see old historical places, but people hate. the world is so full of hate and the united states is a focus point of A LOT of it. if i were i vistor in your country i would represent my country. if you were mad at my country you would be mad at me regardless of my personal beliefs.
as for the war in Iraq.
You know  its never a good idea to make decisions when you are scared and mad. The People of US were afraid that their long time rival and one time friend was going to give some very nasty things to some very bad people.

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2005, 12:33:04 PM »
Very good, but so what? You think you live in the only country in the world with lots of different cultures in it? I live in the UK, and I go to school with Irish, Ukrainian, Iranian, Pakistani, Indian, French, German, Dutch and many more.
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Offline Fat Badger

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2005, 05:07:57 PM »
America can be viewed in so many ways.  In my opinion we're a great country when you look at the small things.  The problem is just the government...  We have a political system split so close between only two groups that someone beslubbers up and Bush is elected president.  (though I blame our last two democratic nominees for that, they were retarded).

How the hell does might make right?  That's just silly.  Yes we are a powerful country, but what we're doing right now is using a sledge hammer to try to kill a gnat.  All we're accomplishing is collateral damage to both ourselves and Iraq. 

I would however like to see more international opposition to Bush when the government starts doing these things.  A good chunk of the UN needs to just slap him on the knuckles and say "NO!  BAD president!"
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Offline mrspungebob

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2005, 05:40:11 PM »
A good chunk of the UN needs to just slap him on the knuckles and say "NO!  BAD president!"

Hehe, i couldn't have said it better ;). I agree that the UN needs to slap Bush a couple of times. One problem is that, at least Norway (though nobody would probably care what we'd say anyway), are to push-over to do anything about it. And those who do get the "You're all against me (bush)!" speach right away.

unfortunately might DOES make right. seriously examine our history.

Ok, so if i'm stronger than you, that gives me the right beat you up for no particular reason (not reffering to Iraq here), because my might makes me right???
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Offline Fat Badger

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2005, 08:22:28 PM »
lol, I think that is what he means.  Lets go beat the crap out of him.  After all, it's justified right?
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