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Author Topic: Pathfinder vs. Inescapable Accuracy  (Read 2022 times)

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Offline bca11

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Pathfinder vs. Inescapable Accuracy
« on: December 23, 2017, 04:27:45 PM »
This possibility came up today and I honestly had no idea how to determine which takes precedence.

For some ridiculous reason, 2 Aeldari armies have squared off. Why would they do this? Only Slaanesh can win in such a situation.  Nevertheless, they did...

A dark reapers unit targets an Alaitoc ranger unit. Alaitoc rangers use pathfinder stratagem, but the reapers have inescapable accuracy. What takes precedence?
Anyone know how to determine this?

Thanks.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Pathfinder vs. Inescapable Accuracy
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2017, 06:05:55 PM »
Usually, the rule is "specific trumps general" so a strategem use ought to take precedence over the Inescapable Accuracy rule, since the Pathfinders stratagem does not apply a modifier but instead just changes what do you hit on in the same way that inescapable accuracy does
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Pathfinder vs. Inescapable Accuracy
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2017, 07:30:37 PM »
Usually, the rule is "specific trumps general" so a strategem use ought to take precedence over the Inescapable Accuracy rule, since the Pathfinders stratagem does not apply a modifier but instead just changes what do you hit on in the same way that inescapable accuracy does
But in that train of thought, so does the Cullexus Assassin, and GW has ruled that Inescapable Accuracy trumps the assassin's rule.
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Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Pathfinder vs. Inescapable Accuracy
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2017, 11:30:30 PM »
Usually, the rule is "specific trumps general" so a strategem use ought to take precedence over the Inescapable Accuracy rule, since the Pathfinders stratagem does not apply a modifier but instead just changes what do you hit on in the same way that inescapable accuracy does
But in that train of thought, so does the Cullexus Assassin, and GW has ruled that Inescapable Accuracy trumps the assassin's rule.

I disagree. The logic is different.

Culexus doesn't change the number you hit on, just your ballistic skill. RAW without any interpretation or "specific trumps general", reapers hit on 3s vs Culexus because reaper to hit rolls are independent of ballistic skill.

The reason Pathfinders stratagem is different is that it is not a to hit modifier, nor does it change your BS ( both of which are overridden, RAW, by Inescapable Accuracy). Instead, like Inescapable Accuracy, it just says "you now hit on 6s no matter what"-- in other words, unlike Hard To Hit or Culexus rule, it acts directly on conditions for success for to hit roll.

Pathfinders, like Inescapable Accuracy, bypasses it all to impose an absolute condition irrespective of any modifiers. This is a crucial distinction to make: Inescapable Accuracy is in the same category as Pathfinders, mechanically.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 11:35:38 PM by Blazinghand »
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Offline admironheart

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Re: Pathfinder vs. Inescapable Accuracy
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 09:45:47 AM »
On another site this came up last month.  The only answer to resolve this was one of timing?

I guess the rationale was the sequencing of the abilities.  I didn't really understand it. Perhaps you could use that line of thinking BlazingHand to figure out which trumps.

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Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Pathfinder vs. Inescapable Accuracy
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 10:31:04 AM »
On another site this came up last month.  The only answer to resolve this was one of timing?

I guess the rationale was the sequencing of the abilities.  I didn't really understand it. Perhaps you could use that line of thinking BlazingHand to figure out which trumps.

There is no timing to Inescapable Accuracy. Also there's no established way of thinking about "timing" for this kind of thing.
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Offline admironheart

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Re: Pathfinder vs. Inescapable Accuracy
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 02:43:02 PM »
I agree with the premise that the specific wins out over the standard.  But you are incorrect when you speak of timing.

Some examples that control the scope of Inescapable Accuracy:

Reapers DO NOT hit on overwatch on 3+....due to the Inescapable Accuracy's own wording about during the Shooting Phase.

It does work with Forwarned as the precondition is that 'as if'it were the shooting phase.

To carry on with looking at the complete framework of the involved:

 Pathfinders is used at the beginning of the Reaper's shooting phase, defining a 6 to hit for the phase; Reaper's Accuracy takes effect when firing in their shooting phase.

Now Pathfinders is at the Beginning of the enemy's shooting phase....so that come prior to targeting which is sequenced prior to Inescapable Accuracy.

Pathfinders wins out do to sequencing.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 02:45:26 PM by admironheart »
"Battles are decided by slaughter and maneuver.  The greater the general, the more he contributes in manuever, the less he demands in slaughter"...Winston Churchill

 


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