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Author Topic: 1850 Alaitoc Tournament Army for Review (WARNING: Big Read!)  (Read 1770 times)

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Offline funkyfellow

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Ello again! After the initial success of my footslogging list a few months ago my opponents of gotten far more canny to its tricks and I have been having am much harder time using it effectively. Thus in a effort to stay competitive and fluffy at the same time (I know an oxymoron!) I have switched to a hybrid list. I have had mixed results, either I win big or lose big, but have had a much easier ( though still difficult) time with stand and shoot armies.

This is going to be the 2.0 of the hybrid list I have been playing, I plan on bringing it to a tourney at the end of the month and am trying out some new ideas, more and more I have noticed my psychic powers being canceled out or almost useless of late, and gun line armies still cause all sorts of problems so I am switching up to 2 Autarchs and trying out a reserves style list!


HQ


Autarch Lumin (Prince Yriel)

Autarch Infaris /w Fusion Gun, Scorpion Chain-sword, Warp Jump Generator

Elites

6 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent /w Twin-linked Shuriken Cannon, Chin mounted Shuriken Cannon

8 Striking Scorpions /w Exarch Scorpions Claw, Shadow Strike, Stalker

10 Howling Banshees /w Exarch, Executioner
Wave Serpent /w Twin-linked Missle Launcher, Chin mounted Shuriken Cannon

Troops


5 Rangers

5 Rangers

6 Guardian Jetbikes /w 2 Shuriken Cannons   

Fast Attack

5 Warp Spiders

Heavy Support

3 War Walkers  /w Missile Launchers

Night Spinner

Night Spinner


Deployment:
Basic deployment will be outflanking/reserving/deep striking everything then deploying everything other than troops turn 2 with the 2+ reserve roll and pick a side to hit. Objectives will be placed on flanks when possible, preferably my side for easy grabs for the rangers/jet bikes. Alternatively when facing a opponent with limited shooting/cover ignoring weapons a ranger squad or even two may deploy on a flank with the scorpions to bait the enemies deployment and to use his first turn or two of movement close in to engage thus dividing his army or moving it out of a favorable position for an easier alpha strike.

Unit Roles:
Yriel: As much as I detest the use of characters it is difficult to remain competitive without the use of him in this list. Without the support of a farseer the banshees would really struggle against many opponents and the threat of monstrous creatures is to great to ignore, he takes care of these problems nicely and the +1 to reserves is required for this build. Also I have a nice conversion in the works for a more Alaitoc themed counts as character.

Autarch /w jump generator: As well as generating the additional +1 to reserves his role is to distract my opponents attention, make him worry about the deep stiking unit and thus affect his deployment, and to take down tanks.

Fire Dragons: One of the most efficient tank hunters in the game, plain and simple. I find it is a rare time where I wish I had spirit stones on my serpents, but I am always happy to have an extra 3 Str 6 shots. This squad operates in tandem with the banshees.

Striking Scorpions: A fluffy choice with some tactical flexibility, while outflanking them can be very risky I find the pay off far out weighs it in most cases. Usually I won't use the 2+ roll for them, preferring they show up later once the battle has started in earnest. There role is that of distraction, tying up my enemies shooting and slowing them down. If there is an occupied objective near a board edge they are a prime unit for contesting / clearing it. Alternatively if I deployed a squad of rangers they will act as a protector to the vulnerable troops in the army, keeping an opponent off of my objectives.

Howling Banshees: The closest thing I have to a hammer unit, with Yriel in the squad they can adequately handle almost any enemy, but are still very vulnerable to shooting. Ideally they assault the elite components of my enemy once the dragons have de-meched them and act as a body guard to my dragons, hopefully keeping them alive long enough to remount.

Rangers: Cheap, Simple, Fluffy. They are resistant to most shooting but crumple to assaults and flamers. Either they outflank and walk to an objective on a flank versus fast armies or armies with many counters to them or deploy on objectives in my deployment with the striking scorpions versus slower armies or ones without the proper tools to deal with them efficiently. I don't plan on them killing anything with their rifles and going to ground mimics the pathfinder upgrade without spending the points.

Jet Bikes: Held in reserves as long as possible and will attempt to control far off objectives that have either been ignored or cleared off of the enemy. Also capable of destroying transports with side armor shots.

Warp Spiders: Basically an escort for the Autarchs tank popping duties. I have had great success with them in larger in units in my other lists, though worry about fielding them in such a small size. While their shooting won't be as effective versus tanks as it was for me in larger squads, the Autarch should make up for this. As a bonus to their small size it will be easier to deep strike and hide them. They always deep strike, no matter what. I find it really affects my opponents deployment and they have really learned to fear this unit in my games. They are also ideal for taking small isolated squads out of the game.

War Walkers: Normally I field these cheap with shuriken cannons but lately I have been on the receiving end of squads with multiple missile launchers  blasting my units apart, or reliably downing my vehicles so I figured I'd give them a try and plug a hole in the list made by taking night spinners over fire prisms. These will be outflanking most of the time, hopefully getting juicy side armor shots, if a bad outflank does happen they have the range for it not to affect them much.

Night Spinners: Oh boy the new shiny unit! I must say when I got the white dwarf (a whole week early none the less!) I jumped for joy! I see these being fantastic for hybrid and foot slogging armies with all those lovely modifiers to your opponents movement, exactly why I took them. They can slow the advanceof my opponent towards my foot elements and really mess with my opponents battle plan, perfect! I feel running them naked will work as along I keep them hidden and use their barrage rules to full effect. Not to mention they can pack a mean punch to boot! A prime target for these bad boys will be huge hordes or vehicle squadrons/clumped up vehicles, versus squadrons of three there's a 50% chance of an immobilized result, and due to squadron rules its destroyed!

Army Tactics:
Basically I want my opponent to stay in his deployment zone while I divide and conquer his forces... I know easier said than done but here's how I plan going about it.

As mentioned before the typical tactic is to reserve everything and hit a flank, using my speed and range to cripple it before he can respond. Afterwards I plan on playing cat and mouse using my speed and range to stay out of assault range until the last turn where I move in and contest objectives. The trick will be to make him focus on my mechaized element that is the immediate threat rather than the foot slogging elements who are getting into position to capture objectives. If he doesn't fall for it and sends in units to deal with my rangers the night spinners and war walkers should be able to slow them down in time for either the scorpions/spiders/banshees to deal with them. The jetbikes are a trump card, they will rarely engage ever and are there to make sure I control at least one objective if my rangers get punked.

Versus more shooty armies (such as guard) this tactic becomes harder to execute. Versus such set ups I will deploy my rangers on a flank in cover protected by my scorpions while the rest of my army will reserve, normally my opponent will deploy more heavily on the side with the rangers and thus my mechanized force will deploy opposite of the rangers, hitting the weaker flank. Mech shooty armies will probably still be my hardest match up, though not as bad as with my foot slogging list. If I feel I simply can't handle the punishment I will simply reserve everything, target the fastest units to eliminate his mobility and turbo-boost to contest his objectives and hold only one of my own.

Versus armies that revolve around hammer units I will use the rangers and scorpions as bait to draw out the hammer, where my fire dragons will shoot out and de-mech them followed by a barrage from the night spinners to slow them down, and possibly missiles depending on the unit. If they are still an immediate threat Yriel+the banshees should be able to take care of them after they are softened up.

Foot slogging hordes pose little threat to this list I feel. My massive amount of template and high strength shots + mobility should easily take care of them. The night spinners will especially shine in such battles. Simply bait with rangers and watch the fun begin.

Versus Speedy assault armies I will reserve everything and keep my mobile elements close together, I will delay my foot sloggers as best I can and play cat and mouse until they show up. Naturally he will focus on them and that's when I will pounce, pouring all my fire power in to the dis-embarked squads and assaulting his elite units with my banshees.

One of the things this army has a lot of is pining, while not the most reliable USR, when it goes off it is nice and with so much in the army I'm expecting to get it off at least once a turn and combined with my night spinners I plan on effectively limiting my opponents movement, which is a key tactic for the army.

Army Theme:
While I value competitive gaming I also have a special place for the fluff in my armies so its always a consideration when I build them, as such I feel this army is a very good representation of an Alaitoc force mobilized for war. The typical commanders of an Alaitoc army are Autarchs, though Yriel takes a bit away from this. Rangers, Striking Scorpions, and War Walkers are all typical Alaitoc units. I feel warp spiders, night spinners, and Jet bikes fit that shadowy scout theme that Alaitoc has and should be considered more than acceptable for a force to field, while banshees and fire dragons are typical Eldar units. The tactics of the army and multiple deployment options and pinning weapons also help with the theme.

Phew! What a big post! It was quite exhausting typing this, and hope you enjoyed the read!

Please post any criticism or thoughts regarding this list, they'd be greatly appreciated! Cheers!

Offline haunt

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Re: 1850 Alaitoc Tournament Army for Review (WARNING: Big Read!)
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2010, 11:20:35 PM »
Well, as long as your opponent allows you to use the Night Spinners you should be ok on the list.
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Offline funkyfellow

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Re: 1850 Alaitoc Tournament Army for Review (WARNING: Big Read!)
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2010, 01:46:55 AM »
Night spinners are 100% codex legal, you don't need permission, says so right in the white dwarf and I think so on the site to!

Offline Halfpast_Yellow

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Re: 1850 Alaitoc Tournament Army for Review (WARNING: Big Read!)
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2010, 03:23:23 AM »
Looks a good list :) I read it all haha. You should have good success with it as long as you make good decisions for your units.

Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1850 Alaitoc Tournament Army for Review (WARNING: Big Read!)
« Reply #4 on: June 2, 2010, 11:04:34 AM »
With an army list this well-developed it will be easy to offer a critique:

Background: 1.0

You've got a good discussion of your Alaitoc theme and wish to adhere to it. This is useful because it prevents a lot of suggestions or criticism that would be unfair or irrelevant to an Alaitoc style force. For instance, you mention the desire to use it in a tournament as a mech/reserves list, and yet forego seer councils. Many might argue that this is a bad move, but including a seer council would move you pretty far from your intended goal of an Alaitoc list.

Additionally, I'm glad to see you take the time to explain your exceptions. Including a counts-as special character and explaining you have a conversion in the works is IMO a lot better than just including Yriel. A bit of discussion about how you intend to get your counts-as model as close to wysiwyg as possible would be fun.

Since you explain that you intend to use this list for tournament play, it will still be necessary for readers to look into your choices for the sake of optimization. You'll be walking a thin line here since there's a lot of tension between the needs of your theme and the needs of tournament play. Nevertheless, I think you've done a pretty good job of handling this tension, though perhaps you've missed some of your scoring potential - we'll get to that later on.

Without a specific enemy in mind, I'm glad you've at least considered what you'll do with a large variety of opponents. A concrete plan is less of a necessity than a general sense of the proper actions to take, and you've accoutned for lots of different variables quite nicely in your writeup.

When it comes to goals, I think keeping a simple framework for the list in mind would be very helpful. You've got a lot of contingency plans but not a nice simple main idea, at least not one that stands out. This could be as easy as "I'll primarily be looking to wipe out the enemy, scoring isn't too important" or "I'll avoid engaging where possible, and use speed to get objectives or concentrate force against weak points." These ideas are spoken to throughout your post, but a sort of Game Plan is a nice thing to begin such discussions with. It also keeps your contingencies playing to your main strengths, and if you're likely to misuse the list, it'll usually be obvious where your list isn't suited to your playstyle :).

Composition: 0.5

Your force has some nice variety spread along the entirety of the FOC. While the reduced presence of fast attack units doesn't concern me so much with Eldar, the inclusion of only three troops choices does, to an extent, especially where two of these are duplicates. For instance, were it possible a group of Avengers would be a nice inclusion, as they can utilize your reserve strategy to simply walk onto the table and grab an objective near your deployment zone, or add some late-game firepower to the list, and are a bit more resistant to flamers and barrage weapons than rangers are.

When it comes to unit variation you've done a pretty good job. A reserves list that's not completely transport-saturated has some nice flexibility and a friendlier total model-count. I think one of the strengths of the list is its relative diversity of units. You miss my marks on the KP front [by 1 KP], and the same for scoring units [by one unit], but to accomplish the other things you've accomplished in this list you'd probably have to take this hit.

Utility: 0.75

Units of 6 are better than units of 5 for the purposes of regrouping; you've lost a little morale resilience in order to add variety. Tradeoffs like this are okay and inevitable. While not a morale issue, three walkers in a single unit will make a very tempting target. You've managed to avoid unnecessary upgrades - probably one of the more minimalist army lists I've seen in a long time! - but look closely at those wave serpents as you use this army; you might find those spirit stones making more sense than the chin guns, eventually. The writeup for each of your units is done well and you have no unrealistic expectations of any of your units; it appears they can get their jobs done as quickly as needed.

Flexibility: 1.0

I like that you've managed to have all your key functions made redundant to an extent, and at the same time, are aware of alternate uses for most of your units. This flexibility and an understanding of it are critical to using Eldar properly - with what appears to be narrowly-defined unit functions across the codex as a whole, it's often necessary to balance duplicating core functions with maintaining a wide variety of tactical options. I think you've really done well in this area. You've got a solid mix of close combat and shooting, should be able to control the board through deployment options and maneuverability, and still manage to have a pretty decent model count. Your writeup illustrates a good understanding of what your units are capable of, how they'll interact and what surprises you may be able to pull off. Also, you keep these alternate functions reasonable; you're not expecting rangers to pull off an assault against an enemy, for instance :). Nicely done.

Ingenuity: 1.0

You didn't mention the possibility of moving the rangers into the serpents for the sake of scoring; in some missions it may make more sense to saddle up rather quickly and let the banshees hold down the fort in your deployment zone, so to speak. Mentioning this sort of thing can prevent people from underestimating your scoring potential. Aside from that one missing component, however, I think you've covered all my requirements here - you've got a battle plan (orplans) that seems like it should work, you cover contingencies, you acknowledge some of your weaknesses, detail how your units will work together, and most importantly, have offered me something new to read, rather than something similar to what frequently appears on this board. All in all it's a very nice, fresh take on an approach to Eldar that lost a good deal of popularity with 5th ed's arrival; I'm glad to see you treat it with such finesse :).

Total score: 4.25

I think what you have done with this army list and its writeup is quite excellent. The army should perform rather well, the writeup allows others to see how it will work. Thanks for a rather excellent read :).

Offline funkyfellow

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Re: 1850 Alaitoc Tournament Army for Review (WARNING: Big Read!)
« Reply #5 on: June 3, 2010, 11:03:45 AM »
Oh boy! I was beginning to think my big post was scaring people off! Thank you for the wonderful critique Gutsikk, as always your reviews are both welcome and enlightening!

Regarding some of your comments:
Quote
For instance, were it possible a group of Avengers would be a nice inclusion, as they can utilize your reserve strategy to simply walk onto the table and grab an objective near your deployment zone, or add some late-game firepower to the list, and are a bit more resistant to flamers and barrage weapons than rangers are.
Yes I agree, dire avengers are one of my favorite units and the list could definitely use them, though I never considered foot slogging them... all my foot slogging elements  have alternate means of movement through outflanking and infiltration for increased flexibility and synergy. I suppose it could work... walk off the board edge and run for an objective and hunker down. Blade storm anything that gets close and hold off the assault with defend until a suitable unit can intervene. But the problem as always is points..... I have no idea where I could cut them to fit in the unit, perhaps dropping a night spinner.... but then my tanks become less resilient with only having three available and I lose some of that wonderful movement impairing effect...

Quote
You miss my marks on the KP front [by 1 KP], and the same for scoring units [by one unit], but to accomplish the other things you've accomplished in this list you'd probably have to take this hit.
Yup, unless I am going full mech I usually try to maintain a 1:3 kill point ratio and this is a bit of divergence from that rule. I figure my rangers won't survive half the games they are in, there are just too many things in the new codices that can take care of them very easily. So really all I am counting on for scoring is the jetbikes, which can be quite easy to keep alive by reserving and using their mobility and the night spinners to keep opponents away from them.

Quote
Including a counts-as special character and explaining you have a conversion in the works is IMO a lot better than just including Yriel. A bit of discussion about how you intend to get your counts-as model as close to wysiwyg as possible would be fun.
It isn't the most awe-inspiring conversion, but I will enjoy the look of the model, just waiting on the bits to make him. Basically I am using the special edition Eldar Autarch and giving him the dire avenger power glaive and shimmer shield. I've considered trying to add some sort of monocular piece to his helmet to represent the eye of wrath though am at a loss of what to use. But the paint job is what excites me most, he will defiantly be a very Alaitocy character!

Quote
When it comes to goals, I think keeping a simple framework for the list in mind would be very helpful. You've got a lot of contingency plans but not a nice simple main idea, at least not one that stands out
The beginning of the army tactics section was the main battle plan followed by contingencies but I suppose it was a little messy and large so let me summarize!

The main idea of the list is to alpha strike a flank of my opponents army and limit his ability to respond through the use of mobility and movement impairing effects, thus picking him apart piecemeal. The foot elements of the army are used as bait to help draw my opponent out of castling up and not moving. I plan on realistically holding 1 objective while contesting the rest with my mobile units and tanks.

Quote
You didn't mention the possibility of moving the rangers into the serpents for the sake of scoring
Oh I completely missed that! In smaller games with a different list I frequently used a falcon with fire dragons in tandem with my rangers. Basically deploy the rangers in a forward position protected by scorpions, send in the falcon /w dragons to take care of a tank, zoom over to pick up the rangers and go capture an objective.

The rangers option to infiltrate adds a good spin on this old tactic, normally you'd have to zoom back to your line after dropping off the squad to pick up the scoring squad, which would be very hard to do considering I will have fewer turns than normal due to my reserves strategy. This way the rangers are much closer to the tank and this makes the process much easier to pull off, thanks for reminding me! This opens a couple new doors in the tactics department!

Hmmmm actually with some more thought this can make an interesting battle plan! Picture this:
Your opponent deploys as normal I opt to infiltrate my scorpions and a ranger squad, I pick a flank as normal (probably the weakest one) but deploy more closer to his line than normal, but still in cover. Seeing a target close by my opponent will react and move in for the kill. The rangers and scorpions will have to go to ground to survive the 2 turns of shooting until my army arrives, by that time he will have moved his assault troops close to them to engage and wipe them out. Now my army arrives and speeds to the rescue, fire dragons/warwalkers destroying the tanks that closed in and banshees cleaning up the insides. There is a good chance I won't be able to keep the dragons up from the return fire and thus have an empty wave serpent to pick up my rangers who are close at hand. The army can now advance without a hitch!

Anyhow thanks again mate!

 


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