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Author Topic: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?  (Read 1503 times)

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Offline Saim-Dann

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Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« on: April 29, 2017, 10:50:29 AM »
2nd ed was a complicated beast, however, there were a few things I personally miss.

- To hit and armour modifiers.
- Pop-up attack for skimmers. There was only one defence against that, and that was the real
  overwatch.
- The real blind grenades.
- Vortex grenades/psychic power.
- Jetbikes floating around randomly once the rider had been a casualty.
- Space/Chaos Marine bikes crashing randomly once the rider was killed.
- The rider/crewman of a vehicle being able to disembark from their beast.
  I'm sure there will be others once Iv'e clicked the post button.
  However... be well


Offline Wyddr

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2017, 11:01:25 AM »
Nope. Not at all. 2nd Edition was ridiculous, indulgent, and wildly unbalanced. Games took a thousand years to finish and everything had a thousand extra, unique rules.

I broke that game when I played it. I exploited that ruleset to its logical extreme, and it was way too easy.

Granted, it was what got me into this hobby, but I don't miss it at all. Good riddance, and let us never go back.

Offline Irisado

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2017, 11:28:22 AM »
It was the edition which I have the most experience of playing.  Throughout my time at secondary school, I played almost every weekend.  I must concur with Wyddr though that I do not miss it.  I initially did not like the change from second to third edition at all, but a lot of that arose because of how the change was explained and the horrible thin codices which were dished out for that edition's armies.

Second edition was too time consuming, suffered from an excessive number of special rules, was overly complicated, and army list building was open to some of the worst abuse I've ever seen.  I faced some really overpowered armies back then and I would never want to face their like again.  It makes some of the power gaming choices employed in seventh edition seem pretty mild by comparison.

As a skirmish game, some elements of second edition's rules were okay.  The problem is that it was not a skirmish game that players wanted, hence why the armies became so unwieldy.
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Offline Lorizael

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2017, 01:34:50 PM »
Not in the slightest!
I admit to a certain sense of nostalgia for some of the awesomely fun things you could do in the game. But yeah, too long, too complicated.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2017, 02:22:37 PM »
Nope, not even with the beer filled nostalgia goggles on full force. Too much fiddly bullamphetamine parrot and minutiae. Turn templates for vehicles, those cursed beslubbering targeting grids for vehicles to see what part you hit, and *so* many different stat lines for essentially the same bloke but in a different hat.

beslubber that.

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Offline Fenris

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2017, 05:34:15 PM »
I wouldn't say love, but I have many fond memories of 2nd ed as it was that edition that got me into the game. A lot of things had too many intricate rules, which was better suited for an RPG game though.

Good things:
- To hit and armour modifiers, much more realistic while not cumbersome.
- Psychic powers had character/flavor.
- Bikes and cavalry was separate entities from their riders.
- Short range and Long range for weapons, often -1 to hit at long range rather than less shots.

Bad things:
- pop-up attacks, essentially JSJ.
- Overwatch, as it often resulted in a stalemate.
- Hundreds of different grenades and missiles for every purpose you can think off, might even have had grenades for baking bread. ;)
- Psychic cards, most giving 1 warp charge, but some gave several, and some were duds if I remember correctly some were even perils, which you could force your opponent to suffer when the opponent was trying to cast a spell. Not much worse off than currently though.

Once 3rd edition hit though, I quit. Most units point cost were cut in half, and the standard army size was doubled, along with the codex being unplayable.
I got back though just couple of months before the 4th ed eldar codex dropped, and have kept up with the game after that.

Edit: I think 4th ed has been the most balanced one so far.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 05:36:25 PM by Fenris »
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Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2017, 10:18:48 PM »
I have no positive memories with 2nd edition. I remember being very happy once 3rd rolled around.


2nd ed was a complicated beast, however, there were a few things I personally miss.

- Pop-up attack for skimmers. There was only one defence against that, and that was the real.
- The real blind grenades.
- Vortex grenades/psychic power.
- Jetbikes floating around randomly once the rider had been a casualty.
- Space/Chaos Marine bikes crashing randomly once the rider was killed.
- The rider/crewman of a vehicle being able to disembark from their beast.
 



All of these things sound like they would do nothing but slow the game down and over-complicate things. Sounds awful.
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Offline OD from TV

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 10:32:55 PM »
Its funny Saim-dann because pretty much all those things you miss about 2nd Ed are things I disliked.  I may be wrong, but I think its likely you'll be seeing To Hit and Armor modifiers in the new edition though.

I think its fairly standard for most vet players to have the rose tinted glasses for their early days with the Edition they started with, after all it laid the foundations for all the games to come.  Personally I often times look back on 3rd Edition with much love, at least until I remember Rhino Rush.  Of course many of my old school opponents also hated my Vypers with Crystal Targeting and my use (and I'll admit debatable abuse) of the Alaitioc Sniper Table.

Edit: I think 4th ed has been the most balanced one so far.
I'm surprised that someone else feels that way.  Maybe substitute the CSM 4th Ed dex for 3.5 and the Eldar codex for 3rd with Craftworld side dex, but overall 4th had a great balance, if for no other aspect that the Templar codex (either the 1st or 2nd 4th Ed codex) could easily go head to head with Orks (the last or second to last of 4th).  And perhaps it was just my area and the circles I played in, but in 4th I played against the most varied armies, from the previous edition hold overs like EoT Mutie armies, Kroot Mercs and Kult of Speed Orks, to the genuine 4th like Nidzilla, Templar Footsloggers with Neophyte bullet sponges, Tau without Riptides or moving scenery, Necron Ctans that were the 'gods' that destroyed the Old Ones instead of Pokeball fragments, Custom Doctrine PDF Guard; 4th had a lot of awesome and it seemed like there was a lot more Xenos then the plethora of Marines we have today.  But there be them rose tinted glasses.

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Offline magenb

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #8 on: May 1, 2017, 12:34:53 AM »
Some things I miss from 2nd, like main characters being beasts :)

To hit modifiers instead of cover saves.
Real overwatch, forgoing shooting in your turn to be able to shoot in theirs.
Short/long range modifiers, however, I would change this to a fixed range rather than half the weapon range.

Bad:
Armour modifiers made units squishy, I don't mind the AP system currently.


Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2017, 09:05:06 AM »
I joined right at the end of 2nd/when 3rd started and I wouldn't say I was fond of it (there seems to be a general trends that every even-numbered edition of 40k promotes static gunlines, and every odd-numbered edition is more mobile) but from a fluff and "cool toys" perspective, the other editions can't hold a candle to it.

I don't miss Sustained Fire Dice, Hide mechanics, the 2nd edition melee system ("highest of attack d6 + weapon skill"), etc. I also don't miss Virus Outbreaks, Wargear Cards ("surprise! He had the Vortex Grenade") or an army of nothing but Wolf Guard with nothing but Assault Cannons and Cyclone Missile Launchers.

I *do* miss comprehensive Codexes that have "what about x edgecases interaction" built into them, that have supporting armies in them (Imagine releasing Tyranids and Genestealer Cults in the same codex today), that have conversion guides, or even the most rudimentary "this is how we envision the army playing on the table." I miss little things like Fabius Bile having alternate ammo types for his Xyclos Needler (setting targets aflame) or Chaos Plasma weapons being the only ones with Gets Hot in exchange for a faster rate of fire. I also appreciate there being a reprint of 2nd ed Space Wolves that explicitly said "no" to the aforementioned Wolf Guard build.

Offline Saim-Dann

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2017, 09:19:28 AM »
G'day magic juggler!
AAh yes; Fabius Bile. What a pain in the butt that bloke was to my Eldar. Agreed about the Wolf Guard as well. Even though I became a Doggies player in the middle of 2nd ed, was glad they reduced the number of WG to 20 max. 2nd ed was by far the era of cheese.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 02:06:42 AM by Saim-dann »

Offline Dread

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Re: Who's still in love with 2nd ed?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 11:58:17 PM »
Sorry bud but 2nd sucked. It was more work then play. 4 hours or so just to get your list ready. 2-3 hours to deploy, 8 hours to hopefully complete turn 1...for 1 side. Psychic phase, arg, 1 hour if you could keep the rules lawyers at bay and even in the regular play, rules lawyers. It was aweful. Games are supposed to be fun. 3rd was fun, 4th meh, 5th fun and the start of unbalance, 6th was so unbalanced with every Dex that was released, 7th is a correction of it, can be fun and hopefully 8th will be.
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