Topic: The Aussie Community Comp system.

[Mr Draken]

Linky: Community Comp

So, i don't know how many may be aware, but for the past 12-18 months, some South Australians (and now a fair few others) have been working and editing together a document called "community comp" its basically a point system for comping lists to make tourney play "fairer" for the average gamer.

Some of it is good, some of it is bad, generally I don't go to a lot of tourneys, but the few I have gone to had fairly friendly players and a fairly relaxed and fun atmosphere.

 I enjoyed seeing stronger lists, and even if I got stomped, would take small victories where i could get them (my master of the forge killing 5 tanks in 5 turns of shooting with his beamer, my speeder storm coming on and clearing an objective so the scouts could hold it, then it somehow luckily surviving a full round of everything shooting it... before exploding to meltabombs in combat and taking 3 guys with it... )  I know its not fun to get stomped all weekend, but the couple of times i saw someone bring a full meta list, the community at the tourney went hard at them for it, they would either tone down their playing, or (once) resubmit on the spot a slightly more fun list (maybe that's just an Aussie thing? We will give people a good stitching up if they are being an ass)

Id also point out, that in the Aussie meta, it was the south Australians who had the biggest issues with power gamers, hence why they started pushing comp systems hard to the rest of us.

But have a read, what are your thoughts? Do you like the system? Dislike? cannot understand what the beslubber C1 and C2 mean? (I feel ya there) Just thought id throw this up as i have not seen a discussion on it anywhere here yet.
Cheers!

[magenb]

The C system seems needlessly complex, which is going to cause confusion. Would it not be simpler to apply an additional point cost instead?

Take one wave serpent at 100% point cost, the second one cost 110%, third one at 120%, all rounded up to the nearest whole point. That should also avoid the whole mess as outlined by "Kairos Fateweaver" example. You might even find a tool like battlescribe to drop the new point system into.

[Cavalier]

Yeah it seems way too complex. The problem with trying to comp. things is that you just end up knocking down one tier of power, and with the next tier down becoming all powerful.

Why not just put number of unit restrictions like 0-1 Wraithknights, 0-3 Wave Serpents etc and maybe a warp-charge cap to balance out Daemon armies.

Personally I think comp. is a fruitless endeavor. I understand and appreciate trying to create a balanced competitive environment but to me the way the LVO handles balancing things through mission parameters, banning certain units, banning Come the Apocalypse allies, nerfing universal special rules mechanics like the 2+ re-rollable invulnerable saves and lots and lots of voting by attendees is the way to go.

[goodolshakey]

Having run a  relatively large tournament in Australia using the Community comp system, I was nothing but happy with it. It seems complex, but its easy to get used to it.

If you say it is too complex, it honestly doesn't take much to get used to. And it created a pretty relaxed fun atmosphere...

[Viper49]

Hey guys,

I'm one of the Team Members who work on the Community Comp document. I'm going to answer some of your issues in a second, but first off everyone has the same kinds of issues with the document in the beginning but once you start to look at it whilst writing your army lists it will make a lot more sense and that once events have started to use it people have figured out that their first impressions of the comp system were overreactions. There have been multiple events run using the comp system,it works well and the way that it is intended to.

As for your issues:
@ magenb - I'm assuming that you're referring to the cumulative cost system. The reason why there is a cumulative costing on certain units is that certain units, for example, Wave Serpents, aren't too difficult deal with one or two, but as you field more of them in an army, they become harder to deal with.

@ Cavalier - First up, each army is comped differently within the document so that each army has responsible points costs for the units that require them. This is done to create a relatively level playing field for everyone no matter what army you may be taking to a tournament/event.

What would occur with what you suggest about a limit of X number on certain units is that you would get everyone who plays X army, for example Eldar as you mentioned, would be running similar to identical lists, but what the community comp system allows people to do is to create an army that they want to play and that is comped appropriately.

I have heard and read many good things about the LVO format, but the community comp system is put together by 15 people from across Australia and is constantly open to debate and review as it is a living document. We have also banned a variety of unit and put a cap on the amount of detachments people can take within the system. We are constantly receiving feedback from the community about the system and we look at what they have brought up and discuss it.

[difsta]

just thought I would put in my 2 cents. This has been in play for over 2 years now. It is something that has been used at medium tournaments very successfully and in the last 6-12 months has started to be used in larger events 80+ players. Terracon (an event in South Australia) is likely to be 100 players this year, it will be the biggest event to use the format.

Write some lists, don't just look at the points in a vacuum, cause we didn't

[Mr Draken]

I would still honestly like to see the formations limits dropped, Considering everything is comped anyway, building a formation style army should not cost you more comp points from a regular CAD force. But i have seen that point brought up multiple times, the main response i see it getting is "This makes it so you limit how many books people bring etc" But the more codecs we see come out with multiple ways to run lists..... the stupider in my mind this restriction becomes.

[Cavalier]

@ Cavalier - First up, each army is comped differently within the document so that each army has responsible points costs for the units that require them. This is done to create a relatively level playing field for everyone no matter what army you may be taking to a tournament/event.

What would occur with what you suggest about a limit of X number on certain units is that you would get everyone who plays X army, for example Eldar as you mentioned, would be running similar to identical lists, but what the community comp system allows people to do is to create an army that they want to play and that is comped appropriately.

I have heard and read many good things about the LVO format, but the community comp system is put together by 15 people from across Australia and is constantly open to debate and review as it is a living document. We have also banned a variety of unit and put a cap on the amount of detachments people can take within the system. We are constantly receiving feedback from the community about the system and we look at what they have brought up and discuss it.

All fair points. I guess I'd just have to see it in action for myself. Its interesting to say the least and definitely worth exploring. My questions about it being overly complicated, and knocking down one tier of ultimate power and inadvertently creating a second tier of of ultimate power still remain, but if there was a group playing this way in my area I would certainly try it out, if only to see if it really does eliminate/greatly reduce the ability to create extreme lists/abusive power-combos. Very interesting stuff to be sure!

[Viper49]

I'd recommend you testing the system out within you player group if they're willing to try it out or even just write up a variety of army lists then run them through the system and see if you think that their comp score is appropriate. You're expected to spend between 8 to 12 points for a medium strength list and still get a decent comp score. From my experiences at a tournament I attended early this year, it did stopped people bring the extreme lists/abusive power combos and created diversity among the army's that were brought to the tournament.