Topic: "Shock & Awe" - or just "Shocking Awe-ful"?

[Shas'Oink]

So, I really like the lok of the new necron flyers, and what with them being released... well... TODAY I wanted to discuss the viability of an army (mostly) mounted in them!


overlord, res orb, phaeron : 140
cryptek : solar flare, lance, 55
cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
15 warriors : 195
8 warriors : 104
8 warriors : 104
6 immortals : 102
3x scythes : 300

5 scarabs : 75
5 scarabs : 75

Monolith : 200
2x dooms : 350
1750


Above is a first draft list, I've already worked a few tweaked versions, but really it was a case of getting in more units that I already own (read: Destroyers). The air force element is made up of no less than 5 flyers. 2 being dooms. A solar flare cryptek will either help to protect them from getting shot to bits early, or protect infantry on last turn action... but yes, my biggest fear is that they do get shot to bits in the initial rounds of shooting - the problem would seem to be that you simply wouldn't be able to hide them!

So, what can we do?

Imotekh is an option, but an expensive one?

Do the Necrons have a way of securing reserve rolls that I may have missed?

and finally, Can this style of "Shock and Awe" work for necrons? or will it just be "Shocking Awe-ful" 

[Galef]

The all flyer list has been wrecking face in my local community.

One guy has been running a list with 2 Command barge Lords, 2 Solar Pulse Crypteks, 5 Night Scythes & 3 Doom Scythes.

Out of about 20+ games he has played, he hasn't just won them all, but completely obliterated half of his opponents.  Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Orks, Imperial Guard, etc. have all fallen to this list.

He even tabled a guy who has repeatedly placed in multiple rounds of 'Ard Boys over the years.

It got so bad that he had to tone down the list (i.e. drop the solar Pulses, 1 Night Scythe & 1 Doom Scythe) just to get in friendly games

So I would recommend a second Lord and another Solar Pulse.

[Spectral Arbor]

I think your two Voltaic Saff armed guys need to have different wargear, according to the Asterix'ed blurb in the Necron Codex, bottom left of pg 90. Either upgrade is fairly cheap, but if his squad is getting into assault range, the Lightning Field looks like fun.

Something I wonder is which AV you would resolve the Lightning Field hits on, if a Walker were to assault them. I didn't notice an FAQ on the subject, and since it has the profile of a shooting attack I would think it should be resolved against the front arc, assuming the Walker is facing the unit when it moves into assault, but that's a powerful reason for a Dread to avoid assaulting that unit.

For reserve manipulation, Zahndrekh has his "Phased Reinforcements" rule, bottom left of pg 61 that could help. If all else, you're hoping one of your enemy's reserve units arrive! 45 more points, and no Res Orb... you could always include a Lord with an Orb, though that gets substantially more pricey.

My hands on experience is next to zero, but I also thought about starting a Flyer heavy force, as it looks quite effective, while being difficult to counter.

[Idaho]

Guys, read the FAQ:

Q: If a Royal Court contains more than one Cryptek
from the same Harbinger, will they all have the weapon
upgrade or can only one have it? (p90)
A: They must all have the weapon upgrade of their
harbinger. Only the optional wargear is unique.

It explains it all pretty easily don't you think?

overlord, res orb, phaeron : 140
cryptek : solar flare, lance, 55
cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
15 warriors : 195
8 warriors : 104
8 warriors : 104
6 immortals : 102
3x scythes : 300

5 scarabs : 75
5 scarabs : 75

Monolith : 200
2x dooms : 350
1750

Hmm. Seems fine to me though a little Troops heavy for an army not fully specialised down a "Scythe" theme (personal preference).

To me the Monolith doesn't seem to fit though. I know it won't be singled out what with all the Scythes flying around, but then it won't do much damage on it's own either (in comparison to it's points cost). Before we comment much more on it, what purpose does the Monolith fill? Could you fill it's role with a substitute for cheaper?

[Log]

I am guessing the monolith fulfills the role of being a hard to remove low priority target that allows the redeployment of those models sent back into reserves by the scythe being blow up.

[Shas'Oink]

Well, I think the FAQ pretty much confirms it is legal. Otherwise the answer to the question would be "a royal court cannot have two harbingers of the same type as they would not then be unique"... or something to that effect. (because note that the FAQ refers to crypteks in one royal court, and not in "one army".

As for the monolith, the idea was twofold:

1. to bring in the 15man necron unit - which would ideally be accompanied by the Phaeron and thus benefit from relentless. The idea was to be able to deep strike the bugger in the middle of the board (or near an objective) and the sit there. THe theme for the force was to represent a first strike necron attack...

2. because I own one and I'd rather like to have a reason to paint it up and use it! lol!

Of course, 200pts is a lot of moola in a 1750pt army, and there are OTHER choices that I have that could potentially be put in. Such as up to 5 destroyers, and as of this morning, another 10 immortals.

I also have a ton more warriors (before the new codex, the army theme was simply "warrior horde"). I've not played with the new codex though, and am not sure of the correct number of troops that necrons should be running with.

[Kaiju Senso]

[mod]Off topic Harbinger rule clarification moved here Please continue with original topic ~Kaiju Senso[/mod]

In my experience with the Nightscythes, they just get blown up very quickly. My last game that included 3 of them, with 2 Monoliths, first turn they were destroyed because they have the weakest armor out of our choices. Adding in 2 Doomscythes like you suggest will probably let the Nightscythes live longer but only because that Death Ray is scarey!

I would like to see more of your thoughts with how this list would deploy and be played (in theory of course). You say deepstrike the Monolith (Which seems like risky business in itself!) but will you deepstrike the Doomscythes or deploy them on the table? Without ever seeing them used in person, it seems with their low armor, deepstriking might be better to guarantee them at least one turn of shooting with that fantastic sounding gun.

Also I agree with you on the Monolith, reason two . I've been running both of mine just to be different because I like the model and it gives me that classic Necron feel.

[Shas'Oink]

Well that's part of the reason why I'm starting to think that Imotech is looking more and more necessary if purely for the fact that he ensures night fight for the first turn and thus helps those scythes to last just long enough to move in and put on some hurt up close.

Aside from that - deep striking is an alternative, but this would suffer from the fact that you ahve little control over how / when things arrive.

Until then it would seem to be a "grin and bear it" sort of thing - and hope you can survive long enough... it is one reason why the monolith would be important though - so that at least you don't lose out on infantry being well out of position.

Part of the reason for the thread was because I'm open to suggestions!

[premetheus]

The Necron list I have been looking to build also includes a few flyers and stalkers so I opted for Imotekh in the end...

[Davinder]

In a strange sort of way, I actually really like this list  and think it would look great on the table top. My only concern is the number of 'Boots' you could put on the ground to secure the objectives. As I can't see a unit of 8 Warriors being very effective at this role.

Using Imotekh as an insurance policy is OK, but where would you find the points to Field him. As everything in your list is, - dare i say essential.

[Kaiju Senso]

Yes I can see where the Stormlord is helpful in this list. There isn't any friendly long range weaponry that would suffer from night fighting.

One of the greatest assets to the Nightscythe (at least how I like to play them) is that you can put a very cheap unit of Warriors inside, and not have to worry about them. (aka what I believe I've seen referred to elsewhere as a "vehicle upgrade") This makes the Scythe scoring but you don't actually have to worry about where the model is in relation to the objectives late in the game unless you're immobilized. Keep your objectives close to your own board edge so that when your Nightscythe does blow up, the Warriors magically start to appear on your home turf unscathed. Even if the Scythe is moving around free of damage late game, you can use the supersonic special rule to get to a home objective quite easily.

This is how I used to play Necrons; Warriors don't need to be in the fight. Now because they are cheaper, have smaller squad sizes, and a transport that won't kill them if it blows up, this tactic is even more viable then the last codex. Even though I prefer foot infantry still, I want to try out a variation of this list idea to get some solid real world experience. Plus as mentioned before, it should look great on the table with the nice new models!

[Shas'Oink]

The only trouble with putting a cheap unit of warriors in a Scythe is that you effetively have a very expensive, but not too difficult to kill tesla destructor!?

It could be useful just like that, moslty because there'll be three (or more) of them.

I did just remember why the cryptek with the solar pulse was there though - because I remember that this ability can be used at the start of "any" turn... which I assume means "not just your turn"... so I could use this for protection against an enemy "alpha strike" (as much as I hate that term).

It only gives me one turn of protection... but is a darn sight cheaper than Imotech. I suppose in order to fit Imotech in, I'd have to drop the Lord and the solar chap (plus an immortal) in order to get the points. It MAY be worth it. But I wonder if people have had much experience with using him. I've fought against him once, and whilst he blew up a razorback first turn with his lightning, he then fluffed his roll and stopped from turn two! Then he done pretty much nothing... which seemed like a poor use of points in the end! The other thing, as already mentioned is that he doesn't have an orb - but I'd like ot hear from experience Necron... ners about whether or not a resurrection orb is so critical these days anyway!?

At the end of the day - I will be buying the flyers... 5 of them, and see how we go. I have a ton of necron stuff to build into the army and so will be able to mix and match the list within the same theme... this is basically because my previous list was a warrior horde... and so it can be adapted quite easily... admittedly, with warrior horde I should probably be going with ghost arcs... but they aren't as cool as a necron air force!