Topic: Satanism 2K5 ~ The why's and what's [WARNING: PG - 15] Read at own risk

[AzumiChan]

I knew that Satanism wasn't what it is shown to be(usually), and I agree with most of this(been looking around the site) though I really do not believe in, nor do I like 'magic'..never liked it, never will...always believed in Physical change, and strength along with thought to solve problems and all that fun stuff.

I'm not saying I am jumping onto any bandwagons or impulses...I shall merely look into this and read...learning can never hurt anyone, and I cannot stand stupidity myself.

Thanks for giving me somethign to look up and learn about.

No problems, I live to enlighten the masses! ^_____^
Happy reading then and be sure to make a statement once you've done with your little, shall we call it; research

[Scars]

<<I don't think so, one must not worship the dark lord to qualify as a genuine satanist. Satanism is basically what you make of it. Have you even bothered to read the satanic bible? Sure, LaVey's sayings aren't all justified but then again, what religious writings are?>>

The word 'Satanist' indicates the worship of Satan, as in Lucifer. It is the logical conclusion one would come to when looking at the word. The word has been taken over by people like Le'Vey. Genuine Satanists are fairly pissed off about this.

And yes, I have read the Satanists Bible. I use to have a copy of it, but I sold it. This is how I know that it's mainly institutionalised Nietzsche. In the same vein I'd like to ask if you've ever read the whole Bible, Torah and Koran though. Most people haven't.

The Satanists that I've met haven't been Satanists, Le'Vey-ist or otherwise. They've been retards with a hard-on for black candles.

I don't have anything against Satanism in any deep seeded dislike of it. I dislike the name, because it's misleading. The fact that I'm actually defending genuine Satanists is rather ironic, however it is true. More over the name serves to screw you over anyway, Satanist has a lot of baggage and pre-concieved notions attached to it, for obvious reasons. Do you think people would get as worked up about your chosen religion if you were called 'free will-ist' or somthing that isn't such a massive target for abuse? Using the name when you're not actually literal Satanists is just plain dumb, in my opinion. I also find it funny that it steals so much of the thought of Nietzsche, when Nietzsche would have strongly objected to this.

I repeat, I couldn't care less what you do. The overhwleming majority of you do no one any harm. There are a minority who go and kill animals and do other not particularly nice things, but there are minorities of every religion that do horrible and stupid things, I mean look at Islam. There aren't any Satanist suicide bombers now are there?  

However, I stand by my comments on Anton Le'Vey. The man is a retard. Go read some Nietzsche, it's better written and cuts away most of the stupidity that old Anton throws in. Plus Thus Spoke Zarathustra is an excellent book in itself, stylistically I mean. Nietzsche could have made it as a writer of fiction, if he had so wished, in my opinion.

<<So yeah, I would call satanism a religion>>

What qualifies as a religious is very subjective and debatable.

<<So no, we don't really care if lucifer is impressed or not>>

Good thing really.

And can you actually talk, instead of just quoting big chunks off websites?

[AzumiChan]

The word 'Satanist' indicates the worship of Satan, as in Lucifer. It is the logical conclusion one would come to when looking at the word. The word has been taken over by people like Le'Vey. Genuine Satanists are fairly pissed off about this.

Agreed, it implifies that one worships satan, thus a logical conclusion just as you said. And I'm sure genuine satanists aren't happy about the fact that Le'vey borrowed the word but still, there's nothing else to call his teachings. Therefor it's satanism.

And yes, I have read the Satanists Bible. I use to have a copy of it, but I sold it. This is how I know that it's mainly institutionalised Nietzsche. In the same vein I'd like to ask if you've ever read the whole Bible, Torah and Koran though. Most people haven't.

No I can honestly say that I havn't read the bible, but I have read the satanic bible.

I repeat, I couldn't care less what you do. The overhwleming majority of you do no one any harm. There are a minority who go and kill animals and do other not particularly nice things, but there are minorities of every religion that do horrible and stupid things, I mean look at Islam. There aren't any Satanist suicide bombers now are there?

You're right there, and let's not begin talking about islam, I utterly detest their teachings >.< (but that's beside the point)

What qualifies as a religious is very subjective and debatable.

The part I quoted that defines religion is taken from wikipedia, but in the end it's up to every person to decide for herself what counts as a religion I guess.

And can you actually talk, instead of just quoting big chunks off websites?

offcourse, but I find it convenient to quote when possible, it saves up a lot of time.

[Lomendil]

Le'vey borrowed the word but still, there's nothing else to call his teachings.

Le'veyism maybe, or Le'veyist Satanism? Seems to me that the points Scars raised make a good case for finding a distinct name for the doctrines, even if only to detach it from the negative stereotype your average person attaches to Satanism. Unless people want that notoriety the name brings, of course.

[Archon_Yggdrisil]

Just to get everyone straight, the word "Satan" means enemy. It does not specifically refer to Lucifer. Thus, the Church of Satan was probably named in a "Screw you Catholicism!" 60's sort of way. Also, from what it looks like, in the "prayers" or chants or whatever they're called, correct me if I'm wrong Azumi, all references to Satan could be reffering to one's self (you did say it was centered on the self, rather than any deity). So it looks like the chants are "Hail me! I rock!"

Second, I believe Azumi is merely trying to inform, not convert. Don't take offense, and don't react with hostility towards her beliefs. If she was some kind of extremist, sure, throw rocks and twinkies. She's not though, so just love her for her pretty pictures. 

Ok, now for a decent question not filled with spite; How can this belief be centered on one's self, and yet still be a group religion? Is it just like a more hedonistic version of the basic tenets of Buhddism? (Rather than make yourself better, make yourself better and feel good doing it)

If my above statement is correct, I could see many arguments starting at meetings  "Hail me!" "No! Hail me! I am more awesome than he is!"

[magikot of alaitoc]

but right now im working on the necronomicon, im intent on contacting the ancient gods and being granted demonic status, in exchange for a world dedicated to their worship in my new world/ universal order.... and lots of sacrifices...

You do know that the necronomicon is fake right? It was created in the early 1900s by H.P.Lovecraft for his fictions. There was no mad Arab whatever (I'd go downstairs to get my books but I'm too lazy). The book was never actually written, but fans of lovecraft who got addicted to his Mythos made one and used the history that Lovecraft created for it as it's basis. Sorry, there is no Cthulu, no R'lyeh, no Yog-Sottoth.

The word 'Satanist' indicates the worship of Satan, as in Lucifer. It is the logical conclusion one would come to when looking at the word. The word has been taken over by people like Le'Vey. Genuine Satanists are fairly pissed off about this.

The word "Satan" has nothing to do with Lucifer. Satan is a hebraic word meaning "the opposer" or "the accused." When LaVey created his church he intentionally used the word Satanist for shock value, which is further emphasized by the church's overly theatrical rituals. A Satanist is the opposer of stupidity, opposers of blind marionettes dancing to the hymns of egotistical prophets.

Lucifer, prior to his reincarnation as an Archangel, was an Italian God of the sun and truth. The truth aspect was brought over to his Christian incarnation. Why was he thown out of Paradise? Not because he waged war on God as most Christians would have you believe, but because he turned the eye of truth upon God. God's first decree to his angels was "You will not worship any as you do me." But when God mad Adam his second decree was "You will worship him as you do me." As this conflicted with the first decree he demanded truth, what should he do. Michael saw this as arrogance and cast Lucifer out of Paradise. The only really arrogant angel was Azazel who, upon hearing the second decree from God, is supposedly have said "Why should I, a child of fire, kneel before Him, a child of clay?"



Why is it whenever someone mentions Satanism it's always Anton LaVey? Why does nobody remember Alester Crowley, his Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn, the 11 Laws of the Earth, and basically the true founding of what has been called the "Left Hand Path"?

Anyways, I agree whole-heartedly with what LaVey said, though I do think he was at times a little off kilter with what he said and he doesn't always seem to understand what he is saying. I incorporate it into my own life (first time I read the Satanic Bible I was 11 hanging out at my public library.....yes I'm a dork), but I am not a Satanist. I am a Pagan. I have a rather eclectic mix of Satanism, Christianity, Judaism, Wicca, and Druidism all incorporated into my own spirituality. I own and quite frequently read the Satanic Bible, Holy Bible, Torah, Koran, Bagivagiddah (or however it's spelled, not going downstairs to grab it), and various Wiccan, Buddist, Taoist and Druidic books.

I find it amusing as well that people don't realize that Mark Twain (Read his book Letters From the Earth) or Benjamin Franklin (Founder of the United States Hellfire Club) were both Satanists.

[Meneroth]

Just like with the christianity thread, this is all personal beliefes(sp) no one can convince the other because its simply how humans are, stubborn. I kinda like this thread cause its more informative and thoughtful than just "Satan is great" "not-uh" "yea-huh" but it really boils down to a famous movie prase "ill see you in hell" cause thats the only time we are gonna find out who is write and wrong. Its like casting the dice, someone is right, though everyone thinks they are right, and we will never know untill heaven(or hell, or whatever) I have bet on a different "god" than yours Azumi, but i can respect your beliefes(sp), thats cool with me.

[Charon]

Quote
What qualifies as a religious is very subjective and debatable.
The part I quoted that defines religion is taken from wikipedia, but in the end it's up to every person to decide for herself what counts as a religion I guess.

Satanism has been formally accepted as a religion in the UK.
There's even a guy in the Navy who is officially registered as a Satanist in his personnel file.

So basically it doesn't matter if a religion doesn't or does fits a specific definition if a government accepts it exists.

I have always identified to parts of Satanist religion myself as it portrays humans as they really are and how I feel about the world and interaction with other people, but like Scars said it does take chunks from Nietzsche's philosophies, who's to say Nietzsche didn't take chunks from someone else's though?

Like I said it portrays humans like they really are, egocentric, which when you accept it is not that bad.
I am not and will never be a Satanist myself though as I oppose any form of religion, I dismiss it as irrelevant.
You don't need ritual to perform magic and you don't need to use biblical names to justify your existence.

I do applaud your choice Azumi Chan anybody who likes to live the "good life" and not feel ashamed because of useless ethics and morals is better off in my eyes.
Indulgence is what makes live worth living.

[Dark Exodus]

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

Murdering is a sin. Yay!

[The Mullet]

Indulgence is what makes live worth living.

But really, is it worth it?  And I don't mean just Heaven and Hell, I mean in this life.  What if something goes wrong?  You mess up while Indulging on whatever?  You could screw up decades of your life over a few years of good times.

With all this sex, what if you get pregnant?  No protection is 100% and the more you do it, the more likely you'll get knocked up.  So now you have a kid, (I'm not getting into abortion, that's one topic I won't touch)  Are you going to give it away so you can keep on with this indulgence only so you could make the same mistake again?  If you do, how can you not care about your own flesh and blood?

Nothing good will come from Satanism in the end.  Unless you plan on killing yourself when you're 30.

[Charon]

Indulgence is what makes live worth living.

But really, is it worth it?  And I don't mean just Heaven and Hell, I mean in this life.  What if something goes wrong?  You mess up while Indulging on whatever?  You could screw up decades of your life over a few years of good times.

With all this sex, what if you get pregnant?  No protection is 100% and the more you do it, the more likely you'll get knocked up.  So now you have a kid, (I'm not getting into abortion, that's one topic I won't touch)  Are you going to give it away so you can keep on with this indulgence only so you could make the same mistake again?  If you do, how can you not care about your own flesh and blood?

Nothing good will come from Satanism in the end.  Unless you plan on killing yourself when you're 30.

But what if you never try?
Being afraid of something going wrong hampers you in growing, developing and enjoying your live.
What if you die at 30, but said no at 29 to something because you were afraid to indulge yourself?

Sex is extremely nice, condoms are readily available, as are morning after pills and a wide variety of other contraception.

[Scars]

<<Agreed, it implifies that one worships satan, thus a logical conclusion just as you said. And I'm sure genuine satanists aren't happy about the fact that Le'vey borrowed the word but still, there's nothing else to call his teachings. Therefor it's satanism.>>

I would say 'Mystic Nietzscheism' is more accurate than 'Satanism'. Satanism as a real religion is very complex and nothing like what teh media and the inquisition portrays it as. It resembles early Judaism more than anything.

<<No I can honestly say that I havn't read the bible, but I have read the satanic bible.>>

Well, maybe you should, if only so as to give you an understanding of Christianity and Judaism so as to know what you're rejecting.

<<You're right there, and let's not begin talking about islam, I utterly detest their teachings >.< (but that's beside the point)>>

You haven't read the Koran and chances are your understanding of Islam is limited to the highly bias summary's that are served up by the Western media. These generally describe a particular movement within Islam called Wahabbism and are often incredibly poorly done, confusing it with Salafism, Qutbism and various Kharijite Sects. Islam isn't the giant, monolithic entity that people try to portray it as, indeed in Pakistan Muslims of different sects spend a great deal of time killing eachother, not to mention hundreds of years of the Sunni and Shia fighting.  

<<The part I quoted that defines religion is taken from wikipedia, but in the end it's up to every person to decide for herself what counts as a religion I guess.>>

Yes, however you could easily argue that 'Satanism' is a philosophy, or even a cult.

magikot:

The issue of naming is always irritating, I generally use 'Lucifer' when talking about Satan (the devil, whatever). There are also multiple versions of what happened with him being thrown out, depending on what translation, from when and what religion. The Islamic version says that God created Adam and taught him the names of everything and then told the Angels all to bow to him. The Angels asked why,as they were teh first to be created by God etc etc so God asked them what various things were and they couldn't answer, but Adam could, so they understood and bowed. Lucifer, however, refused to bow and thus was thrown out of heaven. And Angels are not the children of fire, the Jinn are the children of fire.

As far as I can see, Anton Le'Vey simply turned into what he preached against. He's become the centre of a cult of personality, only adding to the sad, twisted irony of the very religion that he gave birth to.

And I'd firmly like to say that Le'Vey, Crowley and all associated people did not invent anything, they simply bastardised older religions with some mashed philosophy and fictional additions to spice things up. These things have gone on for thousands of years, Le'Vey is simply the public face of the modern incarnation of them.

[AzumiChan]

"Hail me! I rock

That is the basic idea, yes

With all this sex, what if you get pregnant?  No protection is 100% and the more you do it, the more likely you'll get knocked up

There's nothing in the BB about not being allowed to have protected sex, yay!

Ok, now for a decent question not filled with spite; How can this belief be centered on one's self, and yet still be a group religion? Is it just like a more hedonistic version of the basic tenets of Buhddism? (Rather than make yourself better, make yourself better and feel good doing it)

To my understanding a fellow satanist is considered "a close one", and those close to you is those you care for. That's the way I see it anyway.

Nothing good will come from Satanism in the end.  Unless you plan on killing yourself when you're 30

Now that is a rather blatant statement

if only so as to give you an understanding of Christianity and Judaism so as to know what you're rejecting.

I know enough for me not wanting to be associated with them. The crusades are enough for me.

And I'd firmly like to say that Le'Vey, Crowley and all associated people did not invent anything, they simply bastardised older religions with some mashed philosophy and fictional additions to spice things up. These things have gone on for thousands of years, Le'Vey is simply the public face of the modern incarnation of them

True as that is I still don't see anything wrong with it, taking the good parts from diffrent teachings and putting them together to form something new. And having a face only makes a religion (or philosophy) more real.

[Scars]

<<I know enough for me not wanting to be associated with them. The crusades are enough for me.>>

The Crusades were carried out by the Catholics hundreds of years ago. There are hundreds of sects, many of them disagree with the Catholics and the Crusades just as much as you do. Surely a lack of understanding of Christianity is violating both 1 and 7 of of your list'o'sins.

<<True as that is I still don't see anything wrong with it, taking the good parts from diffrent teachings and putting them together to form something new. And having a face only makes a religion (or philosophy) more real.>>

It also seems to defeat the purpose of the individualism that Satanism expouses.

[AzumiChan]

The Crusades were carried out by the Catholics hundreds of years ago. There are hundreds of sects, many of them disagree with the Catholics and the Crusades just as much as you do. Surely a lack of understanding of Christianity is violating both 1 and 7 of of your list'o'sins.

Oh there's more to this than just the crusades, I mearly stated an example. And sect or not, their still doing it under the name of christianity even though it was a long time ago.
I simply don't believe in god. To me he's no more real than superman and I have no wish what so ever to follow the ten commandments (and I have read those many times, yes)

It also seems to defeat the purpose of the individualism that Satanism expouses

La'Vey is mearly the medial face of satanism.

[The Mullet]

But what if you never try?
Being afraid of something going wrong hampers you in growing, developing and enjoying your live.
What if you die at 30, but said no at 29 to something because you were afraid to indulge yourself?

Sex is extremely nice, condoms are readily available, as are morning after pills and a wide variety of other contraception.

I did try, its not worth it.  Its just not worth it at all!
And as I said before, nothing is 100%  There have been reports of people who have disconnected their baby making parts and have still had kids.

"Hail me! I rock

That is the basic idea, yes

I have yet to meet one person who thinks like this that I want to be around on a regular basis.  So why would any intellegent philosophy teach people to be... jerks?

With all this sex, what if you get pregnant?  No protection is 100% and the more you do it, the more likely you'll get knocked up

There's nothing in the BB about not being allowed to have protected sex, yay!

Its still not 100% safe, if it was, I wouldn't be a father.

Nothing good will come from Satanism in the end.  Unless you plan on killing yourself when you're 30

Now that is a rather blatant statement

Yes, yes it is.

if only so as to give you an understanding of Christianity and Judaism so as to know what you're rejecting.

I know enough for me not wanting to be associated with them. The crusades are enough for me.

The crusades were by the Catholics I believe.  And in my opinion, the Catholic relgion is a huge hypocite.
Christianity is totally different to Cathlocism. (ism?)  I dare you to read the bible and learn its teachings so you can make an informed discion on what you want to follow, instead of relying on ignorance.

[The Mullet]

I have no wish what so ever to follow the ten commandments (and I have read those many times, yes)

...........What?!?

So you're saying that you like to murder people?!?!

Can you please elaborate?

[AzumiChan]

...........What?!?

So you're saying that you like to murder people?!?!

Can you please elaborate?

Murder is a sin for a satanist too so I believe that answers that question.

Its still not 100% safe, if it was, I wouldn't be a father.

Ever heard of abortion?

So why would any intellegent philosophy teach people to be... jerks

Is it a bad thing to put youself in first spot along with those close and dear to you, no.
I said "it's the basic idea", I didn't say "yeah we only care for ourselves".

The crusades were by the Catholics I believe.  And in my opinion, the Catholic relgion is a huge hypocite.
Christianity is totally different to Cathlocism. (ism?)  I dare you to read the bible and learn its teachings so you can make an informed discion on what you want to follow, instead of relying on ignorance.

Catholics are christians....there are many sub chapters of christianity and no they are not all that bad.

[imperial_american]

.....do you play chaos?

[AzumiChan]

.....do you play chaos?

Yes I do, among other things