Topic: Bonesinger rules

[magenb]

points cost seems too high. I can see it being useful near Prisms, but at that point cost it feels like you would be better off expanding the unit or adding  second wraithlord.

[Lord of Winter and War]

Pretty amphetamine parrotty for 70pts. Should be 40-45pts. Can only cast smite, but too expensive to be a smite Caddy. Healing d3 wounds is pretty meh.

Cool model though.

[Gildaheir]

Love the rules but hate the cost.  In a world with Primaris Psykers and Malefic Lords, 70 just seems exorbitant for something that can smite OR repair.  I'll still field one or two as easy ways to fill out elite slots on the cheap if I'm going brigade route, but I'm a bit underwhelmed.  As others have said, though, it's a really nice model.  And, between the d3 heal stratagem and this guy, we can make our Wraithknight or Wraithlord's healthy pretty swingy.

[Rhyleth]

Love the rules but hate the cost.  In a world with Primaris Psykers and Malefic Lords, 70 just seems exorbitant for something that can smite OR repair.  I'll still field one or two as easy ways to fill out elite slots on the cheap if I'm going brigade route, but I'm a bit underwhelmed.  As others have said, though, it's a really nice model.  And, between the d3 heal stratagem and this guy, we can make our Wraithknight or Wraithlord's healthy pretty swingy.

Should be good with my Scorpion as well.

[Dageran]

The cost is definitely high, but I do think there's ways for it to make its points back easily- especially in an Iyanden list.

Restoring ~7 Wounds on a Wraithlord / Knight means it makes its points back, even more if you can strategically apply that to buff a wounded model back to its top profile (very easy to do with the Iyanden rule).

It's also got a full smite for when things don't need healed, and 4W so you don't have to worry about perils detonating the unit automatically when you do smite.

All in all, it feels like it's not an auto-take, but can be useful as a one-of in specific armies. I'll definitely be trying to fit one into my Wraith list to see how much of a difference it makes.

[Blazinghand]

Many repairing units have their repair rate limited to 1 on things like wraithlords, but the bonesinger is not similarly limited. If you run a Lord of War you can probably get at on of value out of a bonesinger.

[Lord of Winter and War]

70pts for healing d3 wounds is not good at all. Pretty terrible for the price. To be honest.

[Blazinghand]

If you want to use this to heal a Wraithlord, for example, you'd need to get off 4 heals to earn its points back. On a Falcon, maybe like 3? I guess the issue is, instead of healing a Wraithlord a bunch of times, you could buy a significant fraction of another Wraithlord for the points.

Maybe performance healing a Wraithknight is better, since that will be "stacked" to some extent with effects like Fortune, which makes each Wound more resilient.

[Kora]

Honestly 70 points isn't as bad as you guys think.   For starters, just looking at a comparision to space marines, a librarian is 23 points more, but comes with an extra psychic power, has a force weapon they have to still pay for but has an extra pistol for a ranged option, but can't heal any troops or vehicles, but can deny just one psychic power in a turn, but can cast two powers.   A tech marine is cheaper, but only 8 points after you paid for the servo arm and axe, also has a pistol, but can only repair chapter specific vehicles, and only d3 wounds.  Both of those take up an HQ slot.  The apothecary also is cheaper but by only 2 points.  Can only heal d3 wounds on chapter specific infantry only.    None of those can repair a Knight, a Lord of war option.

The only thing they should have given the bonesinger is a shuriken pistol.   This way it could do something in its shooting phase if you had a target close enough.   It also has a 4+ invunerable save built in, which when you look at its cost comparison, actually makes it sort of comparable.  yes it should be able to heal and use smite, since it has no gun, perhaps an oversight as they may have rushed the rules.   However, it can repair a craftworld specific vehicle, so sadly only those who share the same craftworld trait, but it can heal any wraith - guard/blade/lord and Knight on the table.  I say that because if you are playing a team fight, and your teammate takes wraith constructs, you can repair his as well, it doesn't say friendly or allied, or only your models.   So that is also a plus.   I think his points are balanced, because it already includes his staff, which isn't all that great really, but perhaps they should have made his staff be the focus on his ability to heal and leave his pyschic power to just smiting things. 

[Partninja]

I'm ok with 70pts in the lists I'd use it in. Being closer to a Spiritseer would have been better.

Good thing about PDF rules in this age is that GW can adjust them if they feel like it.

[magenb]

70 points means you will field it in fluffy narrative games, since it is a limited edition model, but its not really an optimal option for tourney play. If it was an optimal option then people would complain when they couldn't get their hands on it.

[Lord of Winter and War]

Honestly 70 points isn't as bad as you guys think.   For starters, just looking at a comparision to space marines, a librarian is 23 points more, but comes with an extra psychic power, has a force weapon they have to still pay for but has an extra pistol for a ranged option, but can't heal any troops or vehicles, but can deny just one psychic power in a turn, but can cast two powers.   A tech marine is cheaper, but only 8 points after you paid for the servo arm and axe, also has a pistol, but can only repair chapter specific vehicles, and only d3 wounds.  Both of those take up an HQ slot.  The apothecary also is cheaper but by only 2 points.  Can only heal d3 wounds on chapter specific infantry only.    None of those can repair a Knight, a Lord of war option.

Librarians get to actually choose their powers, and have better powers, and can cast two a turn. Techmarines are also not very good either.

For the price of a Bonesinger, you almost have enough for two Warlocks, for twice as much smite.

Healing D3 wounds wont matter, as most weapons targeting vehicles will do so much damage that it's irrelevant. That's why you don't see people taking Techmarines, the healing doesn't matter for the cost.

70 points means you will field it in fluffy narrative games, since it is a limited edition model, but its not really an optimal option for tourney play. If it was an optimal option then people would complain when they couldn't get their hands on it.

this.

[Rhyleth]

Honestly 70 points isn't as bad as you guys think.   For starters, just looking at a comparision to space marines, a librarian is 23 points more, but comes with an extra psychic power, has a force weapon they have to still pay for but has an extra pistol for a ranged option, but can't heal any troops or vehicles, but can deny just one psychic power in a turn, but can cast two powers.   A tech marine is cheaper, but only 8 points after you paid for the servo arm and axe, also has a pistol, but can only repair chapter specific vehicles, and only d3 wounds.  Both of those take up an HQ slot.  The apothecary also is cheaper but by only 2 points.  Can only heal d3 wounds on chapter specific infantry only.    None of those can repair a Knight, a Lord of war option.

Librarians get to actually choose their powers, and have better powers, and can cast two a turn. Techmarines are also not very good either.

I can't see that the Librarian comparison is very relevant, but from the above (not having the Marine book) it seems good compared with the Techmarine. Smite is relevant upside and the repair is very flexible - it may not come up often but this can be used as a Wraithguard/blade support unit and heal models knocked down to 1 wound. Eldar vehicles seem generally to be more resilient than non-Land Raider Marine vehicles and can be hard to damage to begin with thanks to assorted modifiers (including holofields on superheavy grav tanks), War Walker power fields, and spirit stones.

Not sure how the weapons compare, but despite crappy combat stats the D3 wounds this can deal in combat seem good for a support unit, and it has a Rune Armour save.

For the price of a Bonesinger, you almost have enough for two Warlocks, for twice as much smite.

Don't Warlocks have Destructor, while the Bonesinger has full Smite?

70 points means you will field it in fluffy narrative games, since it is a limited edition model, but its not really an optimal option for tourney play. If it was an optimal option then people would complain when they couldn't get their hands on it.

This seems exactly where the unit should be pitched. I'd expect it to play will in typical casual matched games using typical tournament rules, but not necessarily highly competitive environments.

[Blazinghand]

Hmm, when I think about the possibility of taking TWO Warlocks, which together equal smiting power to a bonesinger but significantly better psychic powers, more CC ability, a pistol, etc, it feels like you are trading out a lot for that healing ability. I wonder how to make it count.

[magenb]

it feels like you are trading out a lot for that healing ability. I wonder how to make it count.

Fireprism is the best I can come up with so far, it will be fairly static so the bonesinger will not need to move very far.

[Dread]

I've wanted this model since it's release and now I have one ordered, yipee!

As far as rules, well, points wise he's as good as a dominus in my eyes.

[Partninja]

I just wanted the model...

[Irisado]

That ended up being my motivation as well.  The rules were not a factor in my decision.  Initially, I was a little underwhelmed, but I kept looking at it over different days and became more impressed.  Besides, I like Eldar psykers of all types and didn't want to have a gap in my collection.

[Rhyleth]

Hmm, when I think about the possibility of taking TWO Warlocks, which together equal smiting power to a bonesinger but significantly better psychic powers, more CC ability, a pistol, etc, it feels like you are trading out a lot for that healing ability. I wonder how to make it count.

Bonesinger has as many wounds as both, the cc isn't all that relevant anyway, and the prospect for a 3rd Smite wound - and its longer range (two 9" Destructors do not equal 1 18" Smite) - compensates for the pistol. That leaves the healing vs. psychic power as the relevant comparison, and while healing is usually not as good it doesn't demand a psychic test.

Compared that way you've helped convince me that 70pts is about right. It's slightly underpowered relative to the Warlock at that cost, but only slightly. I don't think knocking more than 5-10pts off would be justified.

[haunt]

That healing isn't just Vehicles but those massive wraithknights too, gonna have 3 around 1 Knight and see what happens.